Another game of two halves that saw Saints completely dominate the first half and then struggle to keep the momentum in the second half, ultimately throwing away all 3 points with two lapses in concentration.

An irate fan after the game thought that the game was thrown away by Ralph Hasenhuttl's substitutions particularly the decision to take off Che Adams and replace him with Theo Walcott who is fast becoming the brunt of the wrath of a section of the fanbase.

Whilst I would agree that it was probably not the change I would have made either, it was not what ultimately cost us a game that should have seen us take all three points and move up to 8th in the League, if we had done so then every one would be happy, we didn't but it shows how close we are to getting things right.

But in my opinion what ultimately cost us the game where two goalkeeping errors, having taken the lead after only 4 minutes through a nice finish from Che Adams we really should have gone on and won it, we had the momentum and indeed when we went in at half time the stats showed total dominance with 12 attempts on goal with the home side registering just 1, but that one attempt went in.

Last season Alex McCarthy seemed to have a weakness at his near post and that reared its head against at Carrow Road when he allowed two attempts to slip into the near post when he really should have done better.

A goal up and completely in command the lead lasted barely 3 minutes when Pukki headed in a cross at the near post, the keeper had got his angles wrong, but he should still have kept the header out.

Saints still dominated the first half but the damage had been done and we would pay for it.

The second half saw Norwich come out fighting, but the truth was that we rarely looked like conceding till we did, as a team unit we coped well, Ralph Hasenhuttl made a couple of substitutions fairly early in the half and brought on first Broja for Elyounoussi and in doing so changed the shape and then Walcott for Adams.

The latter was a strange move given that Adams had scored and looked the most likely to do so again, but we still had Broja and Adam Armstrong on and so players who could score.

Walcott did not have a good game and he capped it by missing a great chance in the dying seconds putting a close range header wide when he really should have hit the target, but he was no worse than Broja who never really got into the game, but didn't seem the get the stick Walcott did from some.

But although we were not creating the chances we did in the first we still looked comfortable and a draw looked the least we would get, but then came another poor piece of goalkeeping.

Ironically McCarthy had made a find save just a few minutes earlier when he kept out a Pukki shot at his near left hand post, but when Hanley headed down in the 79th minute it was on target but not with any real power, it should have been easily saved, but once again the keeper could not keep it out.

These are the things that win you games, having a keeper that can make the saves at the right time and this was not the situation here.

I have said in the past that we are gambling a little in not having a truly Premier League class keeper at the moment, I thought that Fraser Forster should have got the nod ahead of the first game of the season and his displays in the League cup have made me think that should still be the case.

Alex McCarthy is not a bad keeper as back up, but I feel that he doesn't have the concentration for long runs in the team,, I think Norwich was a game too far for him, they were only brief lapses, he was ok for the remainder of the game, but keepers have to concentrate for all of the 90 minutes they can't afford one lapse let alone two.

Those berating Ralph Hasenhuttl should think on a little, if his keeper had performed to the standard expected then today we would be 8th in the League., a manager can't legislate for individual error. We are not quite there yet, but we are getting nearer each week.

So this was a disappointing result, but it is not a terminal blow, we have had a good run and now we need to put together another one, perhaps it won't start next week at Liverpool, but there are some winnable games after that and we can move forwards.

For me a good team needs a good keeper and at the moment we don't have that, if we had then we would have won this game, in January we really need to look at what we can do, whether that is a bid for West Brom's Johnstone or we go for a loan deal for Manchester United's Dean Henderson I don't mind, I just think it is a position that has now been a problem for the past 4 years, we need to deal with it sooner than later.

Photo: Action Images

SaintPaulVW added 11:18 - Nov 22 10 Pts out of 15 seems an acceptable return to me. Going to get ups and downs over a run of games. Sadly this was a down. It was a poor performance from several players and I do wonder if some of the young players in particular now need a bit of rotation to keep them fresh. As someone has said above we often bounce back against all odds, so hopefully Liverpool who seem untouchable ATM are due a bit of Premier League inconsistency. COYR!

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deanosfc8 added 11:23 - Nov 22 What do you bed wetters expect REALLY! The fact is we have zero money coming from an owner that wants to sell the club. We are the lowest net spenders in the premier league for the last 5 years. We sell a player to buy a player, we loan in players in. Look at Everton & Villa and there net spend to ours! The truth is right now staying in this league is a miracle. Ralph has done a miracle. I was at Norwich saturday and like most coming out of the ground I was dissapointed but look at the bigger picture!

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beynali73 added 11:23 - Nov 22 Is it time for our annual 0-9 ? Got to be worth a flutter although the odds are probably pretty low :)
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mancuniansaint added 11:50 - Nov 22 I've never been particularly pro or anti RH, but respect to Colburn! He/she argues their case very well (both posts) and I'm finding it hard to disagree.
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redwight added 11:51 - Nov 22 I don't ever recall such unanimity in comments made. Although on balance I'm still pro Ralph, if he can't see what pretty much everyone here can see, then I begin to wonder. It's time he was challenged on: - his inexplicable preference for McCarthy over Forster - the often senseless substitutions - the fact that he is consistently out thought by opposing managers. - why we are a great first half team (aside from chances taken), and c..p in the second. -

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PaleRider added 11:55 - Nov 22 I think a problem with Ralph's subs is that they seem to lack any sort of logic - maybe he's trying to confuse the opposition. However, he just seems to confuse everyone else! I'm not in the Ralph out camp but he would help himself by at least making sensible decisions.
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saintmark1976 added 12:47 - Nov 22 deanosfc8, I’m not a bedwetter but as a concerned season ticket holder I’ll take the opportunity to respond, if you will allow me. The answer to your question as to what is expected is clearly detailed in my original post today and further supported by Colburn’s very eloquent posts also. Perhaps if you read our posts again you will see where we, and I would suggest many other concerned contributors to this site are coming from.

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SanMarco added 12:55 - Nov 22 I think a lot of fair points on areas where Ralph needs to improve + the GK and refereeing errors and Walcott. So, as I am late to the party (or wake I suppose) I will, unusually for me, try a positive comment. We are set up to score less and concede less this season. There will be lots of draws and games with one goal margins. Our inability to storm 3 up in games like this and our occasional reversion to poor defending will be hugely frustrating but Saturday is only a problem if it becomes a recurring pattern. It was the first time since opening day of the season that we lost after leading and we haven't had that many appalling second halves after excellent first halves this season. I suspect if we hadn't of let them equalize so quickly we would have gone on to win, like at Watford. Adams is starting to look like a goal scorer but no one else is, which is a shame. KWP's left foot isn't strong enough for the attacking role and, yes, McCarthy's mistakes are costly. We will take points from games like this on enough occasions and our slightly improved strength in depth means we shouldn't go on long bad runs. Our home form is looking better so I think lower middle table is where we are at. Those hoping for more than that are going to be disappointed I fear.

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Saintaxidriver added 13:25 - Nov 22 A few points to make. But first I want to say I like Ralph and overall I support him. But it is incredibly frustrating to see his strange team lineup decisions, strange tactics and poor substitutions. 1) He said he played Diallo on the right of midfield to strengthen up that area. For goodness sake we are playing the worst defence in the league. 2) He keeps playing Ellyonoussi when despite some nice touches there has been very little end product. 3) KWP is a right back and although he has done well he can't go down the line and cross with his left foot. Everyone has suggested he play on the right with Livraminto but clearly Ralph doesn't like that idea. 4) The marking and awareness on both goals was poor. 5) McCarthy has been fairly good but maybe time to give Fraser a chance. 6) How many games have we dominated in the 1st half and then lost it in the second. Ralph doesn't seem to learn fron his mistakes. 7) His subs rarely if ever work out. Walcott was poor, Broja got no service and why bring on Lyanco when we are loosing? 8) Tella could have started on the right and should have come on in 2nd half. Don't know why Ralph doesn't give him any game time but if I was him I'd ask for a transfer as the tea lady has more chance of playing than he does. 9) In the game itself although we dominated we spent a lot of time mucking around the outside of their penalty area without creating many clear chances. Our balls into the box were poor and our shooting not accurate. So overall not happy and don't think we will get much at Anfield if the same pattern of line up madness, tactical ineptness and illogical substitutions continues!

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wibbersda added 14:14 - Nov 22 Alex McCarthy stars in the new Disaster Movie "The Postman"
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ElijahK added 14:26 - Nov 22 Wow I mean how many armchair fans, well actually I say that, but they’re not fans! Does this Forum have!? So we go and get 10 points from 4 games, send the champions of Europe to penalties for a game we should’ve won, as well as getting draws against Man City, Man U and a really inform West Ham, whilst only having two poor defeats (and even then Wolves are now like 6th!?) and mange to create many chances in many of the games but loose because we don’t take them and conceded two poor goals due the goalkeeping errors (which should be sorted in January but yet again will be down to whether we get the money/ambition to make the transfer!) which cost us the game (as I’m not sure if you plastic fans realise but the manger isn’t allowed to kick the ball into the net or save shots from the opponents from going into their own net!). Yet people are calling for a manger to be sacked even though he’s got the lowest investment of anyone in the prem and has managed to keep us in the prem for many seasons (which is an achievement in itself!) as well as getting us to an FA Cup semi final and top of the league for the first time ever! And yet these idiots still call for his head just because we’ve had one really poor result (which even then was always on people’s mind with them getting a new manger!) yet even if we were to sack Ralph I doubt many world class managers would wanna join us anyway!?… Its just pathetic As bringing on Walcott was the only thing he can and should be criticised for yesterday, and even then it’s not like we had Armstrong or Djenpo on the bench as it’s only Tella who was left.

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ElijahK added 14:40 - Nov 22 And sorry but for everyone going on about his subs and McCarthy, well Adams came off probably because he was knackered after playing like 260 minutes of football for Scotland over the week, so was struggling with his fitness to play the whole 90 minutes, and bringing on Lyanco and Broja were both perfectly understandable seeing that he’s brought on a decent striker to try and get us a second goal but has also made sure that we don’t concede a last minute goal to loose (which in the end even with his subs we still did!) and it’s not like we had the usual lot of Armstrong or Djenpo on the bench to sub on. The goalie issue is simple as we need a new one in January but until then I’d still prefer McCarthy as year he has been poor recently and I certainly wouldn’t be the most bothered in the world if he was to be dropped, but at the end of the day Forster isn’t much better, hence why he was dropped years back and was only ever that good when he had one of the best defences in the league in front of him! Hence why when they all departed (Fonte, Van Dijk and an inform Cedric and Bertrand (as well as us keeping the ball in our opponents half with our great attack)) he fell to pieces and was dropped and loaned out to the likes of Celtic or such, yet he still requests ridiculous wages hence why no ones ever come to buy him. But still as I said before we just need a new goalie full stop in January.

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PaleRider added 14:45 - Nov 22 Elijah - maybe actually read what many people have posted before sounding off. Most people are not suggesting Ralph is sacked but that he clearly needs to improve some decision making. For example, it's not just brining Walcott on but he brought him on for our goal-scorer Adams (which kind of defeats the comment you are trying to make!) and which you would have noticed had you been at the game. If you were a non-plastic fan you might also realise that Saints have been top before - just not in the Premier League era. Please stop embarrassing yourself and actually get a few facts straight first before sounding off. To use your own words - "Its (sic) just pathetic".

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ElijahK added 14:56 - Nov 22 Well you say that PaleRider but I’ve seen loads of people on here calling for Ralph to be sacked/saying we’re heading for the championship, not just on this website but certain other social media groups as well, and yeah they are in a minority but that minority is still much larger than what it should be. But yes there are many who are frustrated with some of his decisions m, but in the end they all make sense if you put yourself in his/the players position (other than bringing on Walcott) as we wanted another goal so Broja was brought on (with Elynousie coming off as he wasn’t the greatest), taking off Adams as he was tired (although why Walcott came on I can’t answer hence why I do think he deserves some criticism there) and taking off Romeu for Lyanco which was probably to allow the fullbacks KWP and Livermento to push up a bit more as they now had 3 central regents covering them. And actually I was at the game, and I was confused as to why he brought Walcott on, but not to why he took Adams off, as you just gotta use common sense to realise that when a players already played 3 games within a week and this is like his 4th throughout like 8/9 days, then they’re obviously gonna be knackered and aren’t necessarily going to be able to play the whole game. And sorry but the last time we were anywhere near the top was before money got involved in the sport, and that’s exactly why every team that’s won the PL (other than Leicester) has had ridiculous amounts of money invested into them before they win their title, hence why I’m just being realistic not expecting us to be anywhere near the top, with the lack of investment we have. So please explain what’s soo pathetic about being realistic/using common sense when writing my comments?

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PaleRider added 16:40 - Nov 22 First of all - many other players in other clubs all round Europe played the same amount of football as Adams but would have played a full game at the weekend. Secondly - it wasn't obvious that Adams was particularly knackered - in my opinion Tino probably looked more knackered. As I said in my post, most posters on here don't think that Ralph should go but do question some of his judgement calls - to me that's not bedwetting or being an idiot. Many people on here have been watching Saints for a long time and recognise that supporting Saints is a bit of a roller coaster. I quote directly from you: "top of the league for the first time ever!". That's just not true. So if you can't get a simple fact (rather than an opinion) about our history correct and yet accuse others of being armchair fans and idiots for having a different opinion to yours then that is pathetic (to use your own words).

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ElijahK added 17:19 - Nov 22 Yeah many other international players did play at the weekend, but then again not many of them played all the games for their country as well as their games being as important. As I can’t think of any English players that played the full games for both of our ones other than Maguire, but he got sent off so it’s not like he was great for his club, and many other players aren’t Che Adams so could quite easily have a better fitness level than he’s got. And yeah I’d agree that Tino did look a bit knackered, but we only get 3 subs and Ralph may have simply just thought that Adams needed a rest more/Tino was too important to take off. And yeah many people (including myself) have been watching saints for a long time, but the way some people act, you’d expect us to have the history of Newcastle/Villa/Man U etc or the investment of the likes of Chelsea/Man City etc as we’ve never been up there for that long hence why we’ve only won one major trophy (although seeing how you knew exactly what I meant by top for the first time, I’m sure you’ll just mention the Johnsons paint trophy or some friendly competition we won over one summer) so is loosing a game to a bottom of the league team isn’t some stand out embarrassing result that should get a manager sacked, as unlike those teams with the investment/the historical teams back in their prime, we don’t win every week and never have. And you say that most posters on here don’t think Ralph should go, well that’s not what I can see as there’s quite a few calling for his head, and yeah they are certainly a minority, but there is still a few, and no having an opinion over what was the correct decision to bring on so and so and what tactics we used etc isn’t being an idiot, but calling for a mangers head after ending a decent spell with 1 poor performance sure is

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AmericanSaint added 17:27 - Nov 22 many good points here and obviously a lot of frustration by us, the fans. As a former keeper (dont hold that against me), McCarthy holds 90% blame on those two goals, period. Ralph does need to take the blame for the subs, as Romeo and Che should not have been taken off, IMO. I suspect Che was taken off due to playing mid-week, but he is in form goal scoring form and you dont take that man off period. I think missing Stu, NR, MD made Ralph chose in error to put on Theo. Walcott needs to sit the bench as he has nothing to offer anymore as he was walking half the time. If Ralph cant see that in the after-game analysis then he deserves all future criticism regarding Theo - PERIOD! Ok, not worth getting all pissed off again, but lets hope these guys put hard work in the training this week and come prepared to fight 90+ minutes against Liverpool. Because if they dont it will be an ugly game. Finally, I understand the frustration many fans have with Ralph and some of it is very justified, but I dont think the Owner/Board will get rid of him unless someone comes in and pays a lot of $$$, which will not happen if we play inconsistently like we did on Sunday. Remember Gao is trying to sell the club and is trying to portray a stable environment to get that done.

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PaleRider added 17:27 - Nov 22 You say " although seeing how you knew exactly what I meant by top for the first time, I’m sure you’ll just mention the Johnsons paint trophy or some friendly competition we won over one summer". I've never mentioned any of these so please don't presume to speak for me or second guess what I do or don't say on a forum - or anywhere else. That would be even more idiotic than calling for Ralph's head after 1 poor performance. To that point, were the 9-0 defeats not poor performances, was losing to 9-man Newcastle not a poor performance? The Norwich performance was far from isolated - again, maybe get a few facts right before posting.

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ItchenNorth added 17:51 - Nov 22 For me the keeper position is still a weakness. We've seemly strengthened the defence this year, but we've not has a decent keeper since........Kelvin Davis stopped playing 5 years ago, but our last real top draw keeper was Antti Niemi way back in 06. Onto the next. Can't win em all in this division, even if Norwich's position suggested otherwise. In Ralph we trust.

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saintmark1976 added 18:03 - Nov 22 EiljahK, over many years the beauty of this site is that with very few exceptions we have remained respectful of the views of others, however strongly we may disagree with them. Suggesting that people who hold a view contrary to your own makes them an idiot does you no favours.We all want the best for S F C, it’s just how that this is achieved which causes controversy. I think we would be better off if Ralph left, you obviously don’t. Whilst disagreeing with it I respect your point of view, asking only that you show me and those of a similar persuasion the same curtesy please.

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ElijahK added 21:15 - Nov 22 Well PaleRider you knew exactly what I meant when I said we went too for the first time ever, so you bringing up the Johnsons paint trophy or such for a major one sure would seem like the sort of thing you’d do. But yeah the two 9-0 defeats were certainly bad results (although the Man U one should’ve been like a 5-1 defeat, but us having a ridiculous injury crisis (hence why we had two goalies on the bench) combined with the worst officiating display I’ve ever seen saints have is what caused it to end at 9-0 (although I’m sure you’ll find a way to disagree/use my own terms against me for that)), although I certainly don’t think that the Norwich or Newcastle games rate anywhere near them, but the fact is that not only did he make up for them with some of the games he pulled off (like the home wins against the champions of England (Man City and Liverpool), an FA cup semi final as well as sending us top of the prime for the first time ever and the entertainment he’s brought us, as ever since Koeman left we’ve not had a better manager than Ralph and we certainly won’t be getting a better one ether with the state that this club is in. And he certainly should’ve be sacked after one poor result that wasn’t record breaking or such, which has ended a decent run that we were on

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ElijahK added 21:23 - Nov 22 Yeah fair enough Saintsmark1976 I shouldn’t call people idiots for stating their points of view, but at the same time it’s not like no one says that on here as many times before have I been called one (whether that’s because I’ve defended a player/manager or said something that someone’s disagreed with) as well as me seeing others be called that and much more. But sorry but I do find it very mind baffling that fans can call for a manger ahead after ending a decent run with one poor defeat. As yeah if we go on a poor run now and get barely any points over Christmas and enter the relegation zone then fair enough as that’s when it’s certainly up for debate, but right now the club is exactly where you’d expect us to be (if not a little higher for what we get investment wise) and we certainly won’t be finishing much higher until we get some investment/ambition in the club

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saintmark1976 added 21:50 - Nov 22 Apology accepted ElijahK, thanks. Being a Saints fan is frustrating is it not? So it’s hardly surprising that opinions sometime boil over a little. I suppose that’s what makes it interesting.Who knows, perhaps one day it will all come together and we will win something important again, just like 1976.
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ElijahK added 22:02 - Nov 22 Yeah well I’m today’s football saintsmark1976, you need money to win just about anything, so I think we may have to wait a while before that happens, but you never know and I sure do hope that I’m wrong (as we’ve waited long enough since we last won anything anyway)
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deanosfc8 added 22:17 - Nov 22 Long term.. No resource and still in the Premier League. Short term.. One defeat in Six... 13th In the League. Be careful what you wish for!!! In Ralph We Trust...
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