| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? 23:41 - Oct 20 with 9077 views | Dr_Parnassus |
So we finally now find ourselves in a bit of form.
But there has been a notable shift from 800 passes a game with no willingness to go long to a more mixed direct approach which many were calling for very early on.
An earlier conversation got me thinking, is plan A now dead? For me that would be extremely encouraging.
I will work out the figures now, will post them regardless. But my money is on a distinct downturn in short balls and possession in our wins compared to our ‘non wins’. Here they are:-
Our 4 wins this season:-
Possession: 62.7%
Long ball %: 12.5%
Our 9 winless games this season:-
Possession: 67.2%
Long ball %: 8.1%
Doing these stats it was actually striking how poorly we perform when restricted to short passing.
That’s a 35% decrease in short passes in our wins vs the games we don’t win. That’s gigantic. Our possession also noticeably less in our wins.
It’s very interesting from a statistical stand point that our wins correlate with a more direct approach and I wonder if the Swansea analysts are earning their money and fed that to Martin. There does seem a distinct change.
I’m very grateful that despite what we were told by some, Martin is adaptable and can absolutely bin his plan A when it clearly isn’t bearing fruit.
Deserves credit for that, without question. |  |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 23:51 - Oct 20 with 4758 views | ItchySphincter |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 00:00 - Oct 21 with 4717 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 23:58 - Oct 20 by ItchySphincter |
Oh, I thought you were joking. |
About which part?
Us having a notable downturn in short passing in our wins?
You know I’m not joking, we discussed it before where you seemed to suggest it was a fluke and the trend wouldn’t continue or something?
Except it has, to a greater degree. | |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 00:03 - Oct 21 with 4706 views | ItchySphincter |
Somebody’s on the ropes. | |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 00:04 - Oct 21 with 4701 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 00:03 - Oct 21 by ItchySphincter |
Somebody’s on the ropes. |
Come off them then, I don’t want you to feel cornered. It is a thread designed to show our change in tactics. Not to call you out. | |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 00:11 - Oct 21 with 4687 views | ItchySphincter |
Nothing to call me out on champ. Just pulling your leg. If it makes you feel better to say we have less possession and more long balls fill your boots. Maybe RM reads your posts eh? | |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 00:18 - Oct 21 with 4678 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 00:11 - Oct 21 by ItchySphincter |
Nothing to call me out on champ. Just pulling your leg. If it makes you feel better to say we have less possession and more long balls fill your boots. Maybe RM reads your posts eh? |
Well you did say it was a fluke wouldn’t continue, did you also say plan A wouldn’t be changed? A few on here did, if you didn’t then I suppose you can relax on that one.
Doesn’t make me feel better to say anything. I’m simply stating some facts, we are playing an awful lot differently to the much talked about plan A when we get our wins.
As I touched upon in my OP, I’m musing whether this has come from the Swansea analysts as opposed to suggesting he has read my posts. Although the data from the analysts would be similar to the data I have provided, and assume conclusions would be similar.
It’s a positive post, not sure why you seem to have taken umbrage to it. | |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 00:52 - Oct 21 with 4645 views | Badlands |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 00:58 - Oct 21 with 4637 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 00:52 - Oct 21 by Badlands |
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Don't like this one?
Strange so many don’t seem to like discussing how the tactics in wins seem to change, yet happy to pretend they don’t to cause conflict to those calling for those changes.
Such is life. | |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 01:11 - Oct 21 with 4627 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 00:58 - Oct 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
Don't like this one?
Strange so many don’t seem to like discussing how the tactics in wins seem to change, yet happy to pretend they don’t to cause conflict to those calling for those changes.
Such is life. |
You must be a barrel of laughs on a night out aye , just enjoy the moment, it doesn't take long for football to bite you on the ass. [Post edited 21 Oct 2021 7:33]
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 01:14 - Oct 21 with 4624 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 01:11 - Oct 21 by Treforys_Jack |
You must be a barrel of laughs on a night out aye , just enjoy the moment, it doesn't take long for football to bite you on the ass. [Post edited 21 Oct 2021 7:33]
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I’m delighted, completely agree.
But it seems the forum is getting filled with people trying to call others out instead of celebrating the win.
This thread is showing that we are indeed playing a much better brand of football than the initial plan A that was being criticised.
It’s a positive thread to counter the overtly negative reactions to our wins. | |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 06:21 - Oct 21 with 4552 views | PawelAbbott |
The difference in results maybe because when you play with 70+% of possession then the opposition can sit deep and wait.
Attacking at pace opens up the opposition which is much more difficult when it takes 20 to 30 passes to get the ball forward. |  | | |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 06:44 - Oct 21 with 4532 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 06:21 - Oct 21 by PawelAbbott |
The difference in results maybe because when you play with 70+% of possession then the opposition can sit deep and wait.
Attacking at pace opens up the opposition which is much more difficult when it takes 20 to 30 passes to get the ball forward. |
Absolutely spot on.
In the games we have 75% possession, Cardiff aside who are horrific, its very easy to defend. Very predictable and with so many behind the ball we become ponderous. Its not a coincidence we had so many 0-0 draws.
When we sacrifice a bit of possession for a more direct game it works wonders. This 96% short passing stuff is simply ego stroking and stat padding, its not effective. That's the stuff he was being criticised for and it appears to becoming less and less part of our game thankfully. Plan A is dying a death, and it couldn't come quick enough. | |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:17 - Oct 21 with 4503 views | ItchySphincter |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 00:18 - Oct 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
Well you did say it was a fluke wouldn’t continue, did you also say plan A wouldn’t be changed? A few on here did, if you didn’t then I suppose you can relax on that one.
Doesn’t make me feel better to say anything. I’m simply stating some facts, we are playing an awful lot differently to the much talked about plan A when we get our wins.
As I touched upon in my OP, I’m musing whether this has come from the Swansea analysts as opposed to suggesting he has read my posts. Although the data from the analysts would be similar to the data I have provided, and assume conclusions would be similar.
It’s a positive post, not sure why you seem to have taken umbrage to it. |
I said what was a fluke? Did I say plan A wouldn’t change? Whatever it is you’re wittering on about I don’t think I said those things. Context? Quote?
As it happens RM has stuck to his guns and has now turned possession into goals, like many patient fans hoped he would.
No amount of “look at me, we’ve had 5% less possession than in games we lost” posts are going to wash with real football fans. I know this is a discussion board but absurd discussions reply do belong on the ‘not football’ board. ðŸ‘🻠| |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:17 - Oct 21 with 4501 views | swan_si |
Horses for courses. |  | | |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:35 - Oct 21 with 4479 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 01:14 - Oct 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
I’m delighted, completely agree.
But it seems the forum is getting filled with people trying to call others out instead of celebrating the win.
This thread is showing that we are indeed playing a much better brand of football than the initial plan A that was being criticised.
It’s a positive thread to counter the overtly negative reactions to our wins. |
Who is being negative to our wins ? | | | |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:38 - Oct 21 with 4473 views | Thornburyswan |
No, it’s just the reality of the players getting fitter (being able to make runs deep into games) & understanding RM’s philosophy plus he is flexing his approached based on the improvement he is seeing & the opposition e.g, WBA play a high defensive line.
There never was/is a ‘plan A’ it’s just a possession/passing/high intensity based approach. | | | |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:38 - Oct 21 with 4470 views | ItchySphincter |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:17 - Oct 21 by swan_si |
Horses for courses. |
Indeed.
“ Cardiff aside”, obvs we have to put that side because some of our highest percentage stats of the season resulted in our biggest win - obviously can’t include that otherwise the whole argument is glaringly exposed for the nincompoopery that it is.
You win some you lose some, it’s just football. | |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:40 - Oct 21 with 4467 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:35 - Oct 21 by Treforys_Jack |
Who is being negative to our wins ? |
Lots of posters seem to be looking to pick arguments with those who correctly criticised the much talked about 'plan A', instead of enjoying the win. I think that is incredibly negative, don't you?
This thread is discussing how things have improved since plan A has become less prevalent, despite the fact these same posters were telling us he couldn't adapt. | |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:41 - Oct 21 with 4462 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:38 - Oct 21 by ItchySphincter |
Indeed.
“ Cardiff aside”, obvs we have to put that side because some of our highest percentage stats of the season resulted in our biggest win - obviously can’t include that otherwise the whole argument is glaringly exposed for the nincompoopery that it is.
You win some you lose some, it’s just football. |
We put that aside because its an outlier, a team on their worst run since the 1930's who have lost 7 league games in a row.
The norm is when we have such possession, we don't win and barely score. | |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:42 - Oct 21 with 4460 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:38 - Oct 21 by Thornburyswan |
No, it’s just the reality of the players getting fitter (being able to make runs deep into games) & understanding RM’s philosophy plus he is flexing his approached based on the improvement he is seeing & the opposition e.g, WBA play a high defensive line.
There never was/is a ‘plan A’ it’s just a possession/passing/high intensity based approach. |
Totally agree with the fitness aspect, we could never have played such a high tempo second half 6 weeks ago | | | |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:42 - Oct 21 with 4449 views | Dr_Winston |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:38 - Oct 21 by ItchySphincter |
Indeed.
“ Cardiff aside”, obvs we have to put that side because some of our highest percentage stats of the season resulted in our biggest win - obviously can’t include that otherwise the whole argument is glaringly exposed for the nincompoopery that it is.
You win some you lose some, it’s just football. |
Yep.
WBA pressed us more than Cardiff did so we had to go longer more often to combat it. Good tactical flexibility and little more. The general ethos remains unchanged. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:42 - Oct 21 with 4459 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
Maybe it’s an evolution that we needed a bit of time to get to but you weren’t having that at the start.
If only the game was as simple as short balls or long balls to make a difference. The way we create the space with our movement has increased tenfold which now allows us the option of short or long balls.
You accused me of wanting tika taka football in the early days when all I wanted mad more entertainment than Cooperball - the 2nd half last night was exactly what I was looking for. A threat of short and long balls depending on opposition tactics.
Whether it Martins tactics or just a purple patch from a couple of influential players we’ll need to wait and see |  |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:44 - Oct 21 with 4450 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long balls vs forced short passing - is plan A dead? on 07:17 - Oct 21 by ItchySphincter |
I said what was a fluke? Did I say plan A wouldn’t change? Whatever it is you’re wittering on about I don’t think I said those things. Context? Quote?
As it happens RM has stuck to his guns and has now turned possession into goals, like many patient fans hoped he would.
No amount of “look at me, we’ve had 5% less possession than in games we lost” posts are going to wash with real football fans. I know this is a discussion board but absurd discussions reply do belong on the ‘not football’ board. ðŸ‘🻠|
You said something along the lines of you not thinking there was a relation and you would like to see the stats kept up all season to see.
Except you now seem offended when the stats are continuing and keeping the trend which I said would be the case months ago.
He has not stuck to his guns at all, we used to have 5% long balls, play the ball across the back 4 constantly and as a result have around 800 passes.
Now we have around 550 passes, less possession and long balls have tripled. | |
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