| tomorrow can't come quick enough 14:17 - Oct 16 with 2242171 views | batman |
Not for us, but for Bury.
i was credit checking a potential customer and decided to nosey onto
BFC's file and was (or maybe not) supprised to see a new CCJ for circa £22k lodged
only Wednesday this week.
looks like they are in need of a bumper crowd tomorrow to settle some bills |  | | |  |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 18:24 - Mar 19 with 6065 views | R11BFC |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 18:15 - Mar 19 by TVOS1907 |
Are you aware of the phrase 'currying favour'? |
Yes. |  |
| For God loved the world so much, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him, may not die, but have eternal life. John 3:16 |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:17 - Mar 19 with 5999 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 14:01 - Mar 19 by SuddenLad |
Attending Sarfend on a Friday night hardly proves he's a footall fan. It won't have cost him a penny to get there, whereas the true supporters will have dug deep & taken time off work to get there. |
Yeah,did n't they charter a private plane too........that's just showing off. | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:33 - Mar 19 with 5950 views | SuddenLad |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 17:53 - Mar 19 by R11BFC |
How do you know it wont have cost him a penny to get there? He didnt go on the team coach for starters.
Anyway, he's a football fan. Fact. I mean, who the fook would want to go to a football match if you dont like football...especially on a Friday night?! But it's not just Southend on a Friday night - i think he's been to every match home and away and a load of youth matches...so come on be fair. You know me and my views but it's undoubted he's a football fan.
That doesnt mean i'm not critical of him and some of his business practices (far from it) but as i say, there's an element of comfort there...rather than if he never turned up to any matches.
I'm still 99.9% certain it'll all end in tears...but i like to be balanced in my views. |
Are you absolutely 100% sure that he isn't submitting expense claims for the 'privilege' of attending games ? Or perhaps claiming the costs incurred through the 'business' ?
Just a thought........... |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:36 - Mar 19 with 5941 views | R11BFC |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:17 - Mar 19 by Yorkshire_Dale |
Yeah,did n't they charter a private plane too........that's just showing off. |
Urban myth!
Or put it this way, he was on his own with the other Bury fans waiting for the police to open the gates to let us out...
Here's an extract of an email i sent to a Bury FC Director a few weeks ago (it's what i call a balanced stance):
There’s no point in playing email table tennis here and i’m more than happy to give you and the BFC Board praise:
The youth/academy set up.
The increased assets (in terms of pounds) on the field of play.
The club being dragged into the 21st century.
The improved Commercial Department.
Mr Day’s (and others) enthusiasm and commitment — there’s no doubt he’s a real football fan.
And not least, promotion last year...
However, i simply can not ignore:
Mr Day’s promise of regular Fans Forums...on which he has reneged.
The total shambles that was the BL9 Weekender.
Just about every project at last year’s AGM not coming to fruition as promised.
The almost total lack of communication unless forced out, apart from PR stunts like Talk Sport.
15 CCJs totalling £265K in less than 2 years — i know who some of these are to and it’s shameful, truly shameful.
2 WUPs by HMRC...one of which went to court.
Local people, including Bury FC supporters who have not been paid and/or who have had great difficulty in being paid.
Numerous emails on all sorts of issues from various people to the football club simply being ignored. | |
| For God loved the world so much, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him, may not die, but have eternal life. John 3:16 |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:40 - Mar 19 with 5925 views | R11BFC |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:33 - Mar 19 by SuddenLad |
Are you absolutely 100% sure that he isn't submitting expense claims for the 'privilege' of attending games ? Or perhaps claiming the costs incurred through the 'business' ?
Just a thought........... |
I could simply turn that around and say, are you 100% sure It didnt cost him a penny to get there?
Bottom line, is that i'm sure he's been paid by Bury in one way or another, so it's as broad as long really.
But my main point, is that he is a football fan. Just trust me...and anyway, whether you agree or not - is the least of my/our worries!
See my post above. [Post edited 19 Mar 2016 19:44]
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| For God loved the world so much, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him, may not die, but have eternal life. John 3:16 |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:43 - Mar 19 with 5911 views | pioneer |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:33 - Mar 19 by SuddenLad |
Are you absolutely 100% sure that he isn't submitting expense claims for the 'privilege' of attending games ? Or perhaps claiming the costs incurred through the 'business' ?
Just a thought........... |
Wekk that could be the same for any football club director, including our own. of course the bloke is a footy fan, its not a case of whether he paid for the trip or not, anyone willing to devote a friday night to going down the other end of the country to watch a third tier footy game is a fan.
Unfortunately when it comes to finance he appears to be delusional at best, but please dont deny him the title of football fan. | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:44 - Mar 19 with 5911 views | D_Alien |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:40 - Mar 19 by R11BFC |
I could simply turn that around and say, are you 100% sure It didnt cost him a penny to get there?
Bottom line, is that i'm sure he's been paid by Bury in one way or another, so it's as broad as long really.
But my main point, is that he is a football fan. Just trust me...and anyway, whether you agree or not - is the least of my/our worries!
See my post above. [Post edited 19 Mar 2016 19:44]
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I think we all understand what you're trying to explain, but the truth is really quite simple.
No football fan would put the existence of a football club at stake. |  |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:48 - Mar 19 with 5878 views | R11BFC |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:43 - Mar 19 by pioneer |
Wekk that could be the same for any football club director, including our own. of course the bloke is a footy fan, its not a case of whether he paid for the trip or not, anyone willing to devote a friday night to going down the other end of the country to watch a third tier footy game is a fan.
Unfortunately when it comes to finance he appears to be delusional at best, but please dont deny him the title of football fan. |
Thank you...a Daley to the rescue.  | |
| For God loved the world so much, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him, may not die, but have eternal life. John 3:16 |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:53 - Mar 19 with 5860 views | pioneer |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:48 - Mar 19 by R11BFC |
Thank you...a Daley to the rescue. |
Ive done the friday night trip down to southend in the past and I wouldnt wish it on my mother in law.
Whoever programmes the fixture computer, or pemits games like that being moved to Friday is having a laugh. | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:56 - Mar 19 with 5847 views | R11BFC |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:44 - Mar 19 by D_Alien |
I think we all understand what you're trying to explain, but the truth is really quite simple.
No football fan would put the existence of a football club at stake. |
Our previous chairman did exactly that and he's defo a football fan...just that he was a bit too ambitious. Supported Bury all his fookin' life! | |
| For God loved the world so much, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him, may not die, but have eternal life. John 3:16 |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:10 - Mar 19 with 5805 views | kippy333 |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:36 - Mar 19 by R11BFC |
Urban myth!
Or put it this way, he was on his own with the other Bury fans waiting for the police to open the gates to let us out...
Here's an extract of an email i sent to a Bury FC Director a few weeks ago (it's what i call a balanced stance):
There’s no point in playing email table tennis here and i’m more than happy to give you and the BFC Board praise:
The youth/academy set up.
The increased assets (in terms of pounds) on the field of play.
The club being dragged into the 21st century.
The improved Commercial Department.
Mr Day’s (and others) enthusiasm and commitment — there’s no doubt he’s a real football fan.
And not least, promotion last year...
However, i simply can not ignore:
Mr Day’s promise of regular Fans Forums...on which he has reneged.
The total shambles that was the BL9 Weekender.
Just about every project at last year’s AGM not coming to fruition as promised.
The almost total lack of communication unless forced out, apart from PR stunts like Talk Sport.
15 CCJs totalling £265K in less than 2 years — i know who some of these are to and it’s shameful, truly shameful.
2 WUPs by HMRC...one of which went to court.
Local people, including Bury FC supporters who have not been paid and/or who have had great difficulty in being paid.
Numerous emails on all sorts of issues from various people to the football club simply being ignored. |
Might as well balance it up with the reply you received.
Fire away. | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:14 - Mar 19 with 5798 views | R11BFC |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:10 - Mar 19 by kippy333 |
Might as well balance it up with the reply you received.
Fire away. |
I think the clue was in when i said:
"There’s no point in playing email table tennis here..."  | |
| For God loved the world so much, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him, may not die, but have eternal life. John 3:16 |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:17 - Mar 19 with 5787 views | kippy333 |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:14 - Mar 19 by R11BFC |
I think the clue was in when i said:
"There’s no point in playing email table tennis here..." |
You weren't expecting one then? Fair enough pal. | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:25 - Mar 19 with 5756 views | R11BFC |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:17 - Mar 19 by kippy333 |
You weren't expecting one then? Fair enough pal. |
It was more that he'd replied to previous emails but it was clear we didnt see eye to eye and we were never going to do.
Just wanted the last word tbh!
And no...before you ask about the previous emails - they were private and confidential, so i wouldnt share on a public message board. Good try though. | |
| For God loved the world so much, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him, may not die, but have eternal life. John 3:16 |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:18 - Mar 19 with 5580 views | R11BFC |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:05 - Mar 19 by pioneer |
No, and Ive counted the fingers on each hand to check. Cant stand the place, or the club, but that doesnt stop me being a bit more objective than some on here.
I hope you go down, nothing personal like. |
Fair play mate. | |
| For God loved the world so much, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him, may not die, but have eternal life. John 3:16 |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 23:47 - Mar 19 with 5480 views | D_Alien |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:56 - Mar 19 by R11BFC |
Our previous chairman did exactly that and he's defo a football fan...just that he was a bit too ambitious. Supported Bury all his fookin' life! |
And there's the difference.
Wanting to see the team you've supported all your life succeed is a million miles away from wanting to use a club as a means of financing your personal ambitions.
Travelling to watch a game at Southend on a Friday night is no different from a businessman flying half way around the world to check up on his/her enterprises - it's just business. And Southend isn't in a different time zone.
I don't doubt your sincerity but I'm afraid it's misplaced. | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 00:41 - Mar 20 with 5421 views | R11BFC |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 23:47 - Mar 19 by D_Alien |
And there's the difference.
Wanting to see the team you've supported all your life succeed is a million miles away from wanting to use a club as a means of financing your personal ambitions.
Travelling to watch a game at Southend on a Friday night is no different from a businessman flying half way around the world to check up on his/her enterprises - it's just business. And Southend isn't in a different time zone.
I don't doubt your sincerity but I'm afraid it's misplaced. |
With respect, you're changing your argument now. You said:
'No football fan would put the existence of a football club at stake.'
I've proved you wrong (our last football fan chairman did exactly that...like plenty of others have too) and now you're coming at it from a different angle. I agree with you on that though tbf (Day's motives are different - i've been saying that for years...so we agree!) - but he's a football fan, whatever you may think.
Now he may well have other motives, etc., in fact, they'll be no doubt he has, but that's a different argument altogether. Personally, i think he's giving it a right go on the dream of us pulling in 10000 crowds in the Championship...which we all know is like living in cuckoo land. In effect, imo he is gambling the future of my football club and the chickens are coming home to roost. Who knows though, it may come off - plenty of other chairmen have chased the dream but as said earlier...i would say there's a 0.1% chance of it coming off. As such, i predict Administration or even worse in the not too distant future.
It's hard work on here you know and why i tend not to post - i end up wasting so much fookin' time! May i refer you to my new friend - Pioneer?! He takes a well balanced stance on things.
P.S. I have misplaced nothing btw. [Post edited 20 Mar 2016 0:44]
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| For God loved the world so much, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him, may not die, but have eternal life. John 3:16 |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 00:56 - Mar 20 with 5409 views | D_Alien |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 00:41 - Mar 20 by R11BFC |
With respect, you're changing your argument now. You said:
'No football fan would put the existence of a football club at stake.'
I've proved you wrong (our last football fan chairman did exactly that...like plenty of others have too) and now you're coming at it from a different angle. I agree with you on that though tbf (Day's motives are different - i've been saying that for years...so we agree!) - but he's a football fan, whatever you may think.
Now he may well have other motives, etc., in fact, they'll be no doubt he has, but that's a different argument altogether. Personally, i think he's giving it a right go on the dream of us pulling in 10000 crowds in the Championship...which we all know is like living in cuckoo land. In effect, imo he is gambling the future of my football club and the chickens are coming home to roost. Who knows though, it may come off - plenty of other chairmen have chased the dream but as said earlier...i would say there's a 0.1% chance of it coming off. As such, i predict Administration or even worse in the not too distant future.
It's hard work on here you know and why i tend not to post - i end up wasting so much fookin' time! May i refer you to my new friend - Pioneer?! He takes a well balanced stance on things.
P.S. I have misplaced nothing btw. [Post edited 20 Mar 2016 0:44]
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For what it's worth, you're right in that my point was made from a different angle, but it still stands. I apologise for omitting the word "deliberately" in terms of your former chairman putting the club at risk. i.e. the difference between doing something through good intentions and doing so for entirely selfish reasons.
I wouldn't btw put too much store in pioneer's ability to provide a balanced view simply because he happens to agree with you. That's misplaced, for a start.
Day himself has said that assuming the chairmanship of the club provides kudos for him in his other business dealings; as well as being an instrument to allow him scope to manipulate his financial affairs. In fact, manipulation seems to be his strongest point, and having people believe he's a football fan is all part of the act.
[Post edited 20 Mar 2016 1:01]
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 16:52 - Mar 20 with 5151 views | RAFCBLUE |
Ahead of what looks a long week for bury fc its probably worth reminding ourselves of the new rules on clubs that go into administration. From the start of this season:
* Immediate 12 point Sporting Sanction
* Once appointed, the Administrator is required to market the club for at least 21 days during which time he/she will be required to meet with the club's supporters’ trust (Forever Bury) and provide it with the opportunity to bid for the club.
* On exit, the purchaser will be required to pay creditors a minimum of 35 pence in the pound over 3 years (or 25 pence on transfer of share) or face a further 15 point deduction at the start of the season following the insolvency event.
So if the events play out as the devils advocate might expect with a club with debts of circa £2m-£3m.
* bury fc appoint an administrator because the directors of the club feel they can't solvently continue trading and take a 12 point deduction
* The administrator is appointed. Forever bury get the first dibs of negotiation at buying their club.
* Those negotiations fail because Forever bury can't raise the funds to cover £2m-£3m of debt
* The ground is also secured by a charge on the debt so prospective purchasers are put off by not being able to do a deal with the owners of the debt on the ground to buy the ground or at the very least, lease it back at a fair market rate.
* All debt holders are guaranteed 25p in the pound or bury fc face -15 points the following season.
* Alternatively the debt holders get nothing and close down the available assets in a way described by insolvency law. The club ceases to exist and the ground - well that goes to the people who loaned the money.
Sounds far fetched right?
Now imagine that to get control of that ground asset all you had done was lend a mythical amount of money at astronomical interest rate and kept refinancing that loan at greater and greater interest rates so that the debt grew - well astronomically!
Imagine that in doing that you had bypassed the majority of shareholders who weren't given the chance to vote on if what you were doing was agreed with.
Forever bury will go down in history as the party asleep at the wheel - and even now are not brave enough to stand up for their club.
buryfc are 150/1 to be relegated; the only way which this will happen is if they lose 12 points.
Overdue financial accounts, CCJ's and now money owed to football league clubs that has led to a transfer embargo. The direction of travel is towards the inevitable.
An interesting week ahead....tomorrow can't come quick enough. |  |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 18:10 - Mar 20 with 5074 views | R11BFC |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 16:52 - Mar 20 by RAFCBLUE |
Ahead of what looks a long week for bury fc its probably worth reminding ourselves of the new rules on clubs that go into administration. From the start of this season:
* Immediate 12 point Sporting Sanction
* Once appointed, the Administrator is required to market the club for at least 21 days during which time he/she will be required to meet with the club's supporters’ trust (Forever Bury) and provide it with the opportunity to bid for the club.
* On exit, the purchaser will be required to pay creditors a minimum of 35 pence in the pound over 3 years (or 25 pence on transfer of share) or face a further 15 point deduction at the start of the season following the insolvency event.
So if the events play out as the devils advocate might expect with a club with debts of circa £2m-£3m.
* bury fc appoint an administrator because the directors of the club feel they can't solvently continue trading and take a 12 point deduction
* The administrator is appointed. Forever bury get the first dibs of negotiation at buying their club.
* Those negotiations fail because Forever bury can't raise the funds to cover £2m-£3m of debt
* The ground is also secured by a charge on the debt so prospective purchasers are put off by not being able to do a deal with the owners of the debt on the ground to buy the ground or at the very least, lease it back at a fair market rate.
* All debt holders are guaranteed 25p in the pound or bury fc face -15 points the following season.
* Alternatively the debt holders get nothing and close down the available assets in a way described by insolvency law. The club ceases to exist and the ground - well that goes to the people who loaned the money.
Sounds far fetched right?
Now imagine that to get control of that ground asset all you had done was lend a mythical amount of money at astronomical interest rate and kept refinancing that loan at greater and greater interest rates so that the debt grew - well astronomically!
Imagine that in doing that you had bypassed the majority of shareholders who weren't given the chance to vote on if what you were doing was agreed with.
Forever bury will go down in history as the party asleep at the wheel - and even now are not brave enough to stand up for their club.
buryfc are 150/1 to be relegated; the only way which this will happen is if they lose 12 points.
Overdue financial accounts, CCJ's and now money owed to football league clubs that has led to a transfer embargo. The direction of travel is towards the inevitable.
An interesting week ahead....tomorrow can't come quick enough. |
So if we all put a tenner on at 150/1...if it happens - we'll be able to buy our club. I like it.
Fair play though, good post (although you did use one capital 'B' - tsk!) - i dont think it will happen this season but i predict it will happen one day.
That being said, i know some of us are looking to 62 points to be sure of safety! Thought it was a 10 point reduction btw...so make that 64 points.  [Post edited 20 Mar 2016 18:12]
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| For God loved the world so much, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him, may not die, but have eternal life. John 3:16 |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:57 - Mar 20 with 4881 views | RAFCBLUE |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 18:10 - Mar 20 by R11BFC |
So if we all put a tenner on at 150/1...if it happens - we'll be able to buy our club. I like it.
Fair play though, good post (although you did use one capital 'B' - tsk!) - i dont think it will happen this season but i predict it will happen one day.
That being said, i know some of us are looking to 62 points to be sure of safety! Thought it was a 10 point reduction btw...so make that 64 points. [Post edited 20 Mar 2016 18:12]
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I think you'd need to wager a lot more than a tenner!
http://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2014/nov/12/bur
The link is David Conn's Guardian article, from November 2014, which succinctly outlined what had gone on up to that point. His estimate was a £2m credit facility at 10% per month. His data taken from various Company House documents.
£2m at 10% per month compounding upwards for 16 months from that point is over £9m! Or nearly £4m at the accounting reference date of 31st May 2015. Either way a lot of bread for a then League 2 side with aspirations of Championship football within four years of when those loans were taken out.
Obviously my calculation is a worst case armageddon prediction and on the understanding that these short term loans or the interest have not been repaid or refinanced in any way, but the likelehood of that is low, because since David's article, bury fc have been promoted and then signed players left right and centre, the latest three making use of a loan system where the parent clubs are paying the wages of the players concerned.
I'm also being kind by not including the spending on the many initiatives, such as bl9weekender, which were clearly not football related.
And here's the rub, the loans owned by companies your chur is heavily involved in. The £4m (or £9m) isn't actually real; but when buryfc go into administration and have to comply with the new football league rules, then minimum of 25% will have to be paid - £1m - £2.25m - which is real cash.
Remember when the late Neville Neville outlined the "guaranteed return" in April 2013 engaged in hawking the club around to interested bidders ( http://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/article/bury-fc-statement-764293.aspx) ?
Take the £1m invested away from whatever 25% of the debt is under the administration rules. That's the profit for trading buryfc on if they survive this.
Alternatively write off the debt and take away £1m from whatever the ground sells for. And that's profit for three years work.
Forever Bury should be beating the door down to ask if the debt is £4m, £9m or any number in between. The May 2015 accounts will tell you what's occuring to 31st May and you can scale upwards from there.
It's almost irrelevant what you do on the field from here on in - the accounts being filed will the the trigger for your directors saying they believe that bury fc will last until 31 May 2016.
They either can't, or won't. So what's to hide? | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:15 - Mar 20 with 4834 views | dingdangblue |
One post from their message board today:
Rumours before yesterday game that stewards haven't been paid recently.. Can't see why anybody would make that up? I'm more worried about our finances now than I have been at any point since SD took over |  |
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