| Headers....... 20:09 - May 17 with 9400 views | ThaiHoop |
So within 3 years all football up to U12 level will see a "deliberate header" punished with a free kick.... starting next season with the youngest age 😲
How long till that becomes a rule in football in general? 🤔 |  | | |  |
| Headers....... on 14:49 - May 18 with 1897 views | lightwaterhoop |
| Headers....... on 07:40 - May 18 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
A good friend of my Dad's was diagnosed with alzheimers aged 62. It can't be proved definitively that heading a ball caused it, but we are pretty convinced it did. He played mens football, as a centre back, from aged 15 until early 50s at a pretty good level. Those footballs back then were like medicine balls.
Personally I think heading should be banned until adult football. The brain is still developing. |
They were nothing like medicine balls at all.Thats just a myth that has grown for some reason.I'm 63 years old and use to play on the scrubs as a child and can't remember ever playing with a heavy ball. |  | | |
| Headers....... on 14:53 - May 18 with 1879 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Headers....... on 14:27 - May 18 by FG_R |
In discussions like this it’s often better to listen to the scientific evidence rather than just the anecdotal evidence.
This following article is entitled 'Heading footballs causes decline in brain function' was the first I quickly came across. There are many more articles out there on the internet with similar conclusions.
https://translationalneuroimaging.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/The-Times-Headi
This second article finds 'higher rates of dementia among former professional footballers compared to the general population, with ex-footballers about 3.5 times more likely to die from a neurodegenerative disease, such as that which causes dementia, than men who didn’t play football professionally.'
https://theconversation.com/heading-the-ball-is-linked-to-cognitive-impairment-i |
The devil is in the detail, not the headline.
The studies described in these articles aren't particularly scientific. Researchers compared death certificates of ex-professional footballers born between 1900 and 1976 against the general population (in Scotland). Given that its test cases were dead, many assumptions and estimations had to be made. The research also didn't take into account that football was a different sport back then. In the end, their studies concluded that they found evidence of a greater degree of neurodegenerative disease recorded in death certificates in Scottish ex-footballers but they couldn't say why.
What's needed is a more scientific and robust approach that focuses on the modern-day footballer, covers a test sample across the globe, makes as few assumptions and guesstimates as possible, and arrives at a distinct conclusion supported by hard evidence.
Until then, by all mean protect the kids but leave the professional game alone. [Post edited 18 May 14:56]
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| Headers....... on 16:10 - May 18 with 1841 views | FG_R |
| Headers....... on 14:53 - May 18 by Benny_the_Ball |
The devil is in the detail, not the headline.
The studies described in these articles aren't particularly scientific. Researchers compared death certificates of ex-professional footballers born between 1900 and 1976 against the general population (in Scotland). Given that its test cases were dead, many assumptions and estimations had to be made. The research also didn't take into account that football was a different sport back then. In the end, their studies concluded that they found evidence of a greater degree of neurodegenerative disease recorded in death certificates in Scottish ex-footballers but they couldn't say why.
What's needed is a more scientific and robust approach that focuses on the modern-day footballer, covers a test sample across the globe, makes as few assumptions and guesstimates as possible, and arrives at a distinct conclusion supported by hard evidence.
Until then, by all mean protect the kids but leave the professional game alone. [Post edited 18 May 14:56]
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The first article cites a recent study in North America, carried out at Columbia University, looking at young people (average age 27) currently playing in local league teams who were tested using MRI scanning. The study found that high levels of heading were associated with changes in brain structure that were consistent with mild traumatic brain injuries.
The second article summarises the findings of work carried out by researchers at Liverpool John Moores University and Keele University and is based on an article they wrote in the Journal of Neuropsychology in 2021. | | | |
| Headers....... on 18:38 - May 18 with 1775 views | essextaxiboy |
| Headers....... on 14:49 - May 18 by lightwaterhoop |
They were nothing like medicine balls at all.Thats just a myth that has grown for some reason.I'm 63 years old and use to play on the scrubs as a child and can't remember ever playing with a heavy ball. |
Really ,? I am the same age and I can remember leather footballs with a separate bladder that was laced with a square section leather lace with a tool with an eye on the end . The ball was polished with dubbin to stop it absorbing water , if you didn’t do that it weighed a ton . |  | | |
| Headers....... on 19:13 - May 18 with 1727 views | lightwaterhoop |
| Headers....... on 18:38 - May 18 by essextaxiboy |
Really ,? I am the same age and I can remember leather footballs with a separate bladder that was laced with a square section leather lace with a tool with an eye on the end . The ball was polished with dubbin to stop it absorbing water , if you didn’t do that it weighed a ton . |
Fair enough mate.I can remember my Dad had a couple of those old balls in the shed but we never used them i thought they were obsolete by the 1960's but i may be wrong. | | | |
| Headers....... on 20:22 - May 18 with 1678 views | kensalriser |
I think lace-up balls were obsolete before the war, but they may well have still been made and used in the amateur world after then. |  |
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| Headers....... on 21:04 - May 18 with 1664 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Football equivalent of scrum caps perhaps? |  | | |
| Headers....... on 21:35 - May 18 with 1627 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Headers....... on 11:00 - May 18 by Northernr |
At those age groups it's hard to argue against, although tbh if you watch/referee games at that level it's barely an issue - small sided football on tiny pitches with little goals, a lot of them can't kick the ball off the ground anyway, the heading is minimal/non existent.
What would/will be a shame is when it starts to creep up through the ranks into the professional game over the next decade or so, fundamentally changing the sport as a spectacle for the worse. Seen it in both codes of rugby, driven into over-refereed penalty fests by lawyers and university professors because if anybody gets tackled above the stomach they might explode into a thousand pieces. And you can't have a debate with anybody about this because they just go "oh so you're in favour of 12 year olds getting dementia are you then right fine".
I think I'm much more on the side of freedom of choice. We let people drink. You put all the science and the warnings out there, and you let them make their own choice.
If you play rugby, you might occasionally get hit in the head. If you don't want to get hit in the head, don't play rugby.
If you play football, you might occasionally have to head the ball. If you don't want to head the ball, don't play football. |
Isn’t that also an argument against seatbelts and condoms? | | | |
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| Headers....... on 22:04 - May 18 with 1604 views | johann28 |
| Headers....... on 21:04 - May 18 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Football equivalent of scrum caps perhaps? |
That would probably make it worse as wearing some sort of protective covering only makes people more comfortable using force. The head to head clashes would also in all likelihood be even more serious than they are now. |  | | |
| Headers....... on 23:42 - May 18 with 1570 views | essextaxiboy |
| Headers....... on 19:13 - May 18 by lightwaterhoop |
Fair enough mate.I can remember my Dad had a couple of those old balls in the shed but we never used them i thought they were obsolete by the 1960's but i may be wrong. |
You may be right regarding the pro game . My memories are of the 7th Romford Boys Brigade match ball which probably washt the most modern . | | | |
| Headers....... (n/t) on 07:18 - May 19 with 1490 views | ThaiHoop |
[Post edited 19 May 7:20]
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| Headers....... on 07:21 - May 19 with 1485 views | ThaiHoop |
| Headers....... on 21:35 - May 18 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Isn’t that also an argument against seatbelts and condoms? |
Erm, I've been out of the UK a long time but as far as I'm aware it's not compulsory to wear condoms?! | | | |
| Headers....... on 19:05 - May 19 with 1373 views | Northernr |
| Headers....... on 21:35 - May 18 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Isn’t that also an argument against seatbelts and condoms? |
Well the car example is an interesting one because it's one I've used myself when describing the situation in rugby league at the moment, which has been damaged enormously as a spectacle over the last ten years by the imposition of ever more rules and safety protocols, and next season will finally tip over fully into unwatchable as they start penalising people for tackling across the shoulders.
Driving a car into a brick wall is pretty dangerous. And so it's only right that we try and mitigate against that. We add air bags to cars, we add seatbelts and make them mandatory like you say, we make cars out of better materials, we add roll cages, we do endless safety tests, we improve braking distances. And in rugby we have rules about tackling and punching people in the head. To this point, I'm completely with you.
For me though, once you start saying that anything above chest height is a penalty, a red card, an eight week ban, you're fundamentally changing the sport. The very basic fundamental of rugby league is you put two men in at the tackle, one for the legs and one to wrap the ball up and prevent offloads. They're about to say you can't do the latter, and so the sport will become an offload and penalty fest - every tackle will literally be one or the other. When they ran the trials in academy games last season there were 55-60 penalties a match, basically one every minute and 30 seconds, would you watch a football game with 80 free kicks in it? (Incidentally the trial also showed no reduction in the amount of concussions suffered). It's a different sport, more akin to touch. Like I say, unwatchable, for me. And deeply frustrating when MMA is out there attracting millions of viewers, millions in sponsorship, millions in pay per view, while league and union are in steep decline for participation and viewership.
Same thing in football. You take away heading, it's a different sport entirely.
To come back to the car example, what I feel you're doing is not seatbelts, airbags, braking distances. It's basically saying there can only be one car on the road at any one time, unless they happen to crash into each other. Or putting every car in a protective 20-yard bubble. Or saying you can't have brick walls any more. It's a fundamental change to the whole thing, for the worse, and completely impractical.
Sooner or later you just have to accept that driving a car into a brick wall is a dangerous thing to do.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Headers....... on 12:59 - May 26 with 1049 views | essextaxiboy |
His choice Baz , he could have been an accountant .. | | | |
| Headers....... on 13:06 - May 26 with 1038 views | Toast_R |
I remember being encouraged by the watching dad's, to get your head on the end of long punts downfield from the age of 6 onwards. The weight of the ball hitting your head used to send a wave of pins and needles through your arms and into your hands. That can't have been good. [Post edited 26 May 13:07]
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| Headers....... on 13:43 - May 26 with 1010 views | NorthantsHoop |
Still playing football at 60, although the walking football variety, obviously no heading allowed, automatic freekick if ball goes over head height or a player heads the ball. In warm ups a couple of weeks ago asked a lad to cross a ball for me to head, my god forgot how hard a football is when heading at speed, took a few moments to recompose myself. A good idea to limit young heads from the effect of continuous heading especially in training match environments, debatable at the point you play competitive football say from teenage years. |  | | |
| Headers....... on 13:54 - May 26 with 987 views | LazyFan |
| Headers....... on 21:04 - May 18 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Football equivalent of scrum caps perhaps? |
This is the solution that keeps all happy.
They have been developed for football but FIFA banned em I think as it resulted in the ball going further than before and they were worried it would be all hoof ball.
They should be tried for decade at least to see if it makes a difference. It could be used at all levels as well. And you get to look like some cool surfer boy :P |  |
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| Headers....... on 17:39 - May 26 with 936 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Headers....... on 13:54 - May 26 by LazyFan |
This is the solution that keeps all happy.
They have been developed for football but FIFA banned em I think as it resulted in the ball going further than before and they were worried it would be all hoof ball.
They should be tried for decade at least to see if it makes a difference. It could be used at all levels as well. And you get to look like some cool surfer boy :P |
They‘ll lap it up when they realise they can stick a huge Coca Cola logo on it. | | | |
| Headers....... on 12:05 - May 27 with 838 views | The_Beast1976 |
I played football to semi-pro level. My game was based on being very good in the air/heading the ball. I took.immense enjoyment from it as a child and young adult. I wouldn't swap those years of enjoyment from heading a football for anything. If I get dementia as a result, so be it. It would still have been worth it for such a brilliant childhood and young adulthood.
I don't know what all the fuss is about. Life is for living, and living is never risk free. What is the point of living if you don't live it to the full? Why are we trying to keep everyone alive forever ffs? It's pathetic. | | | |
| Headers....... on 12:24 - May 27 with 813 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Headers....... on 12:05 - May 27 by The_Beast1976 |
I played football to semi-pro level. My game was based on being very good in the air/heading the ball. I took.immense enjoyment from it as a child and young adult. I wouldn't swap those years of enjoyment from heading a football for anything. If I get dementia as a result, so be it. It would still have been worth it for such a brilliant childhood and young adulthood.
I don't know what all the fuss is about. Life is for living, and living is never risk free. What is the point of living if you don't live it to the full? Why are we trying to keep everyone alive forever ffs? It's pathetic. |
‘It may take 30 years off my life, but my 28 games for Hanwell Town (that I’ll ultimately forget anyway) was worth it’ is a unique take i’ll give you that!
I won’t labour the point, but follow the science and listen to players playing right now I reckon. If they say no headers for U12s then good.
There is a balance to be had I feel. [Post edited 27 May 12:26]
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| Headers....... on 12:41 - May 27 with 809 views | RangersDave |
Be banning boxing next, followed by rugby! |  |
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| Headers....... on 13:17 - May 27 with 799 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Headers....... on 12:41 - May 27 by RangersDave |
Be banning boxing next, followed by rugby! |
Both of those sports came a long way on head injuries in recent years | | | |
| Headers....... on 13:45 - May 27 with 783 views | LazyFan |
| Headers....... on 17:39 - May 26 by BazzaInTheLoft |
They‘ll lap it up when they realise they can stick a huge Coca Cola logo on it. |
Even better, they can put 3/1 to score a header on it for that player. Odds in the game, literally! | |
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| Headers....... on 20:38 - May 27 with 723 views | The_Beast1976 |
| Headers....... on 12:24 - May 27 by BazzaInTheLoft |
‘It may take 30 years off my life, but my 28 games for Hanwell Town (that I’ll ultimately forget anyway) was worth it’ is a unique take i’ll give you that!
I won’t labour the point, but follow the science and listen to players playing right now I reckon. If they say no headers for U12s then good.
There is a balance to be had I feel. [Post edited 27 May 12:26]
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But it's not just those games though. It's a whole childhood and young adulthood spent absolutely loving heading a football. Noone can take that away from me. I loved every minute. What will be will be. Life is full of risks, but I don't let them stop me doing anything I want to do | | | |
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