| A message from a fan from abused by the far right 10:30 - Feb 13 with 28817 views | Rosey_Repeat |
(I am posting this for him for fairly obvious reasons)
A MESSAGE TO ALL WELSH FOOTBALL FANS FROM ROD, A SWANSEA CITY FAN ABUSED BY THE FAR RIGHT
"Hi there, this is a message about an anti racism campaign Swansea and Cardiff fans are doing in the run up to the derby game on 20th March.
The message simply is this
RIVALS ON THE PITCH BUT UNITED AGAINST RACISM.
With the appalling racist abuse that Yan Dhanda had following the game against Man City, it re-emphasises the importance of players taking the knee in the fight to end racism.
Could you please spare a few seconds to
*make a video or photo of yourself taking the knee to be used in our social media and hopefully on a giant banner displayed at the game; please send it back to us standuptoracismswansea@gmail.com
* add your name here .
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfZUSZ8qjf5TxKzdo5FsHanCbrurn3TUTkFW0s-
The campaign against racism is so so important.
If you could spare a few seconds to do the video / photo and show your support to Yan Dhanda and also in the campaign against racism, that would be brilliant.
Thanks for your time,
Best Regards
Rod
#RIVALS ON THE PITCH UNITED AGAINST RACISM #SWANSEA#CARDIFF#"
Follow Jacks Against Racism and Fascism
https://www.facebook.com/Jacks-Against-Racism-and-Fascism-706130563097878
https://www.instagram.com/jacksagainstracismandfascism/ |  | | |  |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 14:25 - Feb 17 with 1678 views | Treforys_Jack |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 14:03 - Feb 17 by Catullus |
Yeah, Tommis Smith put it in his autobiography, 30 years later, that it wasn't a black power salute but a human rights salute.
I guess like manythings, including taking the knee, people associate it with something and won't let the idea go.
Lets not associate taking the knee with BLM. Lets just see it as a protest against all racism, it's really not that hard, and the raised fist, now that Lisa has enlightened us lets not see it as a black power thing but a human rights thing. We can do that or we can argue about it and I'd rather we didn't cause more arguments. |
Therein lies the prob cats, the media went to great lengths to associate taking the knee with BLM , agree with your sentiments though. |  | | |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 18:20 - Feb 17 with 1614 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 06:13 - Feb 17 by KeithHaynes |
He can answer for himself I’m sure, however I read his separatist comment differently. If that’s what you refer to, he has his own views, mine are far more cast in stone, history is a great educator. For him I suspect living where he does and the people around him it’s a far more difficult reality. |
I wasn’t referring to his post but him ‘liking’ the comment from Resloven which was factually incorrect. |  | | |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 18:21 - Feb 17 with 1614 views | KeithHaynes |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 18:20 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
I wasn’t referring to his post but him ‘liking’ the comment from Resloven which was factually incorrect. |
He’s an odd but likeable fish 😉 |  |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 18:28 - Feb 17 with 1602 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 11:28 - Feb 17 by NotLoyal |
It's separating support by clenching a fist. Gestures are the problem in modern day society. Regardless of the subject. Taking the knee is separating people, a clenched fist is the same. As jack59 said, let's just be anti hate and racism. For me the gestures do nothing, and it bears no resemblance to the 1930's. It's not the time to alienate, especially when that berkhampstead at the start of this thread decided to support racism by being divisive. |
Actually it’s exactly the time to alienate.
There aren’t two opposing views both of which have merit. Racism and other forms of bigotry is wrong in society and wrong in football and the almost apologetic attempts to ‘educate’ and ‘raise awareness’ with some easy, middle of the road, non threatening slogans in the past have fallen on deaf ears in some cases. People who are racist don’t need educating, they have been educated enough. They are just pathetic little bigots who are desperate to find someone to ‘look down on’ to make their own failures seem more palatable. They need ostracising and, in the case of football, to be banned for life.
If players choose to take the knee, raise a fist, whatever it may be and some people find that uncomfortable, then tough. Let them feel uncomfortable and alienated. If other players don’t wish to do so, that’s fine as well. People can choose how they want to behave. But anyone that boos any of it when we return, should be ejected from the stadium and should not be allowed back. | | | |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 19:51 - Feb 17 with 1589 views | KeithHaynes |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 18:28 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
Actually it’s exactly the time to alienate.
There aren’t two opposing views both of which have merit. Racism and other forms of bigotry is wrong in society and wrong in football and the almost apologetic attempts to ‘educate’ and ‘raise awareness’ with some easy, middle of the road, non threatening slogans in the past have fallen on deaf ears in some cases. People who are racist don’t need educating, they have been educated enough. They are just pathetic little bigots who are desperate to find someone to ‘look down on’ to make their own failures seem more palatable. They need ostracising and, in the case of football, to be banned for life.
If players choose to take the knee, raise a fist, whatever it may be and some people find that uncomfortable, then tough. Let them feel uncomfortable and alienated. If other players don’t wish to do so, that’s fine as well. People can choose how they want to behave. But anyone that boos any of it when we return, should be ejected from the stadium and should not be allowed back. |
Time to leave the racists behind then, no more education, hit them hard, sounds a lot like the eighties, and that got got us nowhere. Personally I’m living proof a punch in the face doesn’t work. That’s what alienates. I still think gestures as some have said on here ( and elsewhere to avoid profiling of the sites members ) are just that. The main problem as we both know is then BLM link, a lot don’t like the organisation. For me, it’s a confused message. I’m always AntiFa, in its purest form, but I detest the modern day messages that confuse people and make them alienated, that’s always been a point for me. We either include and educate or remain divided. | |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 20:14 - Feb 17 with 1567 views | NotLoyal |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 19:51 - Feb 17 by KeithHaynes |
Time to leave the racists behind then, no more education, hit them hard, sounds a lot like the eighties, and that got got us nowhere. Personally I’m living proof a punch in the face doesn’t work. That’s what alienates. I still think gestures as some have said on here ( and elsewhere to avoid profiling of the sites members ) are just that. The main problem as we both know is then BLM link, a lot don’t like the organisation. For me, it’s a confused message. I’m always AntiFa, in its purest form, but I detest the modern day messages that confuse people and make them alienated, that’s always been a point for me. We either include and educate or remain divided. |
BLM has nothing to do with it. I've maintained a position on here for years. Direct action works. I know how much you care about this topic. And probably can't be arsed with years ago. But the only way to stop this once and for all is to carry on everything you lot did way back. All this social media middle class bullshit is killing any chance this country has of equality. Where are the BLM activists now ? A bit too cold ? Where are the idiots who pulled down statues because they were bored in the summer ? Mummy and Daddy too busy helping them fill in their uni forms or paying for a year off ?
That's the problem with modern day socialism, it's fashionable when it suits. Make a comment on social media and people think their work is done. No better than the racists. Patheticic part time clowns. Any way second half has started. In real life it should. |  |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 20:14 - Feb 17 with 1562 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 19:51 - Feb 17 by KeithHaynes |
Time to leave the racists behind then, no more education, hit them hard, sounds a lot like the eighties, and that got got us nowhere. Personally I’m living proof a punch in the face doesn’t work. That’s what alienates. I still think gestures as some have said on here ( and elsewhere to avoid profiling of the sites members ) are just that. The main problem as we both know is then BLM link, a lot don’t like the organisation. For me, it’s a confused message. I’m always AntiFa, in its purest form, but I detest the modern day messages that confuse people and make them alienated, that’s always been a point for me. We either include and educate or remain divided. |
People who are racist now In 2021 generally aren’t racist because they’re not educated about racism. There has been education explaining why it’s wrong for decades. No amount of additional education about race will make them think differently.
There may be a small few who genuinely don’t realise how their behaviour affects others, but most do it because they know it affects others and it makes them feel better in their twisted little minds.
I am not suggesting a punch in the face, I am simply saying that the softly softly approach to make the scum bags feel better has been tried and tried and making them feel that they have views which are simply unacceptable in the 21st century (whichever way you do that) is now the only solution.
I disagree re BLM. The majority of those suddenly taking an interest in ‘Marxism‘ are doing so because it’s an easy and more acceptable hook to hang a hat on. Most wouldn’t know Marxism if it smacked them across the face. There are aspects of the beliefs of certain groups that attach themselves to the BLM banner that I fundamentally disagree with. That doesn’t change the underlying philosophy of the movement whose ONLY cause is that Black Lives Matter in exactly the same way as white lives. Every movement in history has had extreme fringes who push and push until it’s gone way beyond what most ‘believers’ want. It generally settles down after time.
I suspect we’ll remain divided for quite some time. Unfortunately we are in the midst of some sort of culture war. Not, as some seem to believe, between the ‘woke’ and ‘sensible’, but rather between those that believe that society is not as fair as it should be, and those that are happy with the status quo (largely the beneficiaries of the non level playing field).
The world will never be fair or equitable, but it is possible (and desirable in my view) to create a more equal society. At present there are many who are not ‘included’ due to reasons of race, or colour, or gender, or sexuality or economic background. I’m more keen on including them to be honest. | | | |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 20:16 - Feb 17 with 1564 views | NotLoyal |
BLM has nothing to do with it. I've maintained a position on here for years. Direct action works. I know how much you care about this topic. And probably can't be arsed with years ago. But the only way to stop this once and for all is to carry on everything you lot did way back. All this social media middle class bullshit is killing any chance this country has of equality. Where are the BLM activists now ? A bit too cold ? Where are the idiots who pulled down statues because they were bored in the summer ? Mummy and Daddy too busy helping them fill in their uni forms or paying for a year off ?
That's the problem with modern day socialism, it's fashionable when it suits. Make a comment on social media and people think their work is done. No better than the racists. Patheticic part time clowns. Any way second half has started. In real life it should. | |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 20:44 - Feb 17 with 1536 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 20:16 - Feb 17 by NotLoyal |
BLM has nothing to do with it. I've maintained a position on here for years. Direct action works. I know how much you care about this topic. And probably can't be arsed with years ago. But the only way to stop this once and for all is to carry on everything you lot did way back. All this social media middle class bullshit is killing any chance this country has of equality. Where are the BLM activists now ? A bit too cold ? Where are the idiots who pulled down statues because they were bored in the summer ? Mummy and Daddy too busy helping them fill in their uni forms or paying for a year off ?
That's the problem with modern day socialism, it's fashionable when it suits. Make a comment on social media and people think their work is done. No better than the racists. Patheticic part time clowns. Any way second half has started. In real life it should. |
Never mind George Floyd in the summer. 3000 miles away. What about Mohamud Mohamed Hassan. Not a thing. No need to worry about possble issues in the South Wales Police just focus on the bad stuff too far away to be of any relevance to Swansea.
The police commisioner for Wales is Alun Michael and we voted for him. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 21:01 - Feb 17 with 1529 views | Catullus |
The Marxism thing, many of those hanging their hats there do so because Capitalism has paid for it.
I'm with Keith re alienation, being nasty to somoene never changes their mind, their opinion.
I would say if people still haven't learned then education has failed. We saw direct action, protests, statues being pulled down and it certainly fired the racists up but it didn't really achieve much else.
BLM, they're political in my view and there's been evidence for that,
https://www.theweek.co.uk/108897/why-people-describe-black-lives-matter-politica
I don't know the answer but I'm pretty sure it doesn't lay in accusing everyone you disagree with of being racist as happened on this boards pre switch debate on BLM. I was called racist for questioning BLM and saying all racism is wrong. | |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 21:36 - Feb 17 with 1513 views | Treforys_Jack |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 21:01 - Feb 17 by Catullus |
The Marxism thing, many of those hanging their hats there do so because Capitalism has paid for it.
I'm with Keith re alienation, being nasty to somoene never changes their mind, their opinion.
I would say if people still haven't learned then education has failed. We saw direct action, protests, statues being pulled down and it certainly fired the racists up but it didn't really achieve much else.
BLM, they're political in my view and there's been evidence for that,
https://www.theweek.co.uk/108897/why-people-describe-black-lives-matter-politica
I don't know the answer but I'm pretty sure it doesn't lay in accusing everyone you disagree with of being racist as happened on this boards pre switch debate on BLM. I was called racist for questioning BLM and saying all racism is wrong. |
Your last paragraph is so spot on. | | | |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 22:13 - Feb 17 with 1485 views | KeithHaynes |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 20:14 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
People who are racist now In 2021 generally aren’t racist because they’re not educated about racism. There has been education explaining why it’s wrong for decades. No amount of additional education about race will make them think differently.
There may be a small few who genuinely don’t realise how their behaviour affects others, but most do it because they know it affects others and it makes them feel better in their twisted little minds.
I am not suggesting a punch in the face, I am simply saying that the softly softly approach to make the scum bags feel better has been tried and tried and making them feel that they have views which are simply unacceptable in the 21st century (whichever way you do that) is now the only solution.
I disagree re BLM. The majority of those suddenly taking an interest in ‘Marxism‘ are doing so because it’s an easy and more acceptable hook to hang a hat on. Most wouldn’t know Marxism if it smacked them across the face. There are aspects of the beliefs of certain groups that attach themselves to the BLM banner that I fundamentally disagree with. That doesn’t change the underlying philosophy of the movement whose ONLY cause is that Black Lives Matter in exactly the same way as white lives. Every movement in history has had extreme fringes who push and push until it’s gone way beyond what most ‘believers’ want. It generally settles down after time.
I suspect we’ll remain divided for quite some time. Unfortunately we are in the midst of some sort of culture war. Not, as some seem to believe, between the ‘woke’ and ‘sensible’, but rather between those that believe that society is not as fair as it should be, and those that are happy with the status quo (largely the beneficiaries of the non level playing field).
The world will never be fair or equitable, but it is possible (and desirable in my view) to create a more equal society. At present there are many who are not ‘included’ due to reasons of race, or colour, or gender, or sexuality or economic background. I’m more keen on including them to be honest. |
Debate also is key. I think we have that on here in bucket loads, and as long as I am here there won’t be anything other than that. Thank you for some real thoughtful posts. And yes, maybe my grandfather did raise a fist, but when he was captured at Córdoba In 1938, he was firing his catapult at Nazi ( yes the time to use that term properLy ) aeroplanes. That’s all they had left, spirit and the desire to change a world no matter the consequences ðŸ‘
But a catapult ? It’s almost unimaginable what people have done to fight hate, but it happened, and that’s what makes us all anti fascist. | |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 22:21 - Feb 17 with 1475 views | Jack123 |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 21:01 - Feb 17 by Catullus |
The Marxism thing, many of those hanging their hats there do so because Capitalism has paid for it.
I'm with Keith re alienation, being nasty to somoene never changes their mind, their opinion.
I would say if people still haven't learned then education has failed. We saw direct action, protests, statues being pulled down and it certainly fired the racists up but it didn't really achieve much else.
BLM, they're political in my view and there's been evidence for that,
https://www.theweek.co.uk/108897/why-people-describe-black-lives-matter-politica
I don't know the answer but I'm pretty sure it doesn't lay in accusing everyone you disagree with of being racist as happened on this boards pre switch debate on BLM. I was called racist for questioning BLM and saying all racism is wrong. |
'statues being pulled down, and it certainly fired the racists up?
What do you mean if you were against the pulling down of statues and also graffiti daubed all over them, then you are a racist? |  |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 12:09 - Feb 18 with 1391 views | Catullus |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 22:13 - Feb 17 by KeithHaynes |
Debate also is key. I think we have that on here in bucket loads, and as long as I am here there won’t be anything other than that. Thank you for some real thoughtful posts. And yes, maybe my grandfather did raise a fist, but when he was captured at Córdoba In 1938, he was firing his catapult at Nazi ( yes the time to use that term properLy ) aeroplanes. That’s all they had left, spirit and the desire to change a world no matter the consequences ðŸ‘
But a catapult ? It’s almost unimaginable what people have done to fight hate, but it happened, and that’s what makes us all anti fascist. |
I think I'd hav liked your grandfather, guts and spirit, like all those who volunteered for the international brigades.
Shooting at nazi planes with a catapult.....incredible really. | |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 12:17 - Feb 18 with 1384 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 14:03 - Feb 17 by Catullus |
Yeah, Tommis Smith put it in his autobiography, 30 years later, that it wasn't a black power salute but a human rights salute.
I guess like manythings, including taking the knee, people associate it with something and won't let the idea go.
Lets not associate taking the knee with BLM. Lets just see it as a protest against all racism, it's really not that hard, and the raised fist, now that Lisa has enlightened us lets not see it as a black power thing but a human rights thing. We can do that or we can argue about it and I'd rather we didn't cause more arguments. |
The swastika originated as a symbol of peace and a religious icon. Doesn’t matter does it, it’s what it means now in the country it’s being done in.
The current wave of knee bending came from Kaepernick (who was a God awful QB) who was protesting regarding racial police brutality. BLM (the organisation) adopted it and it swept the world of sport who “wanted in” on the popular movement... except they didn’t look into what they stood for, and didn’t look past the nice sounding name.
To pretend it’s completely seperate and not at all connected is just another political reach.
But again, people can do what they like. If they want to do it they can do it, if people don’t like it they don’t have to. But to pretend those that don’t like it then it must be down to racism is another reach that is becoming more and more farcical not to mention tiresome. [Post edited 18 Feb 2021 12:23]
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 12:26 - Feb 18 with 1375 views | KeithHaynes |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 12:09 - Feb 18 by Catullus |
I think I'd hav liked your grandfather, guts and spirit, like all those who volunteered for the international brigades.
Shooting at nazi planes with a catapult.....incredible really. |
They lived in different times mate, walked from ireland across the uk down through France where resistance smuggled them in to north Spain. Different balls these people. It’s featured in numerous books, taken prisoner in Córdoba, the last stand for the govt resistance, they were annihilated, ran out of ammunition, they had two machine guns between twenty of them. escaped three days later with several others and walked / navigated their way around the spanish coastline until they could get a boat to england. They arrived in Southampton two months later, and were arrested by the British army. He served 8 months, he said ‘ I’ve been fighting nazis for two years, I’m going home ‘ So they locked him up. And he had served in the British army before this albeit briefly. The south had many volunteers to enlist in the army at that time. After eight months the army asked him to train new recruits in gorilla tactics and hand to hand fighting, if he did they would let him out.He agreed, and ended up in the home guard in Northampton 😂 Didn’t raise a catapult in anger 😂
I’m half way through writing a book on those years. Probably be a bit more exciting than some of my swansea ones ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ðŸ‡¨ðŸ‡® | |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 13:19 - Feb 18 with 1349 views | Catullus |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 12:26 - Feb 18 by KeithHaynes |
They lived in different times mate, walked from ireland across the uk down through France where resistance smuggled them in to north Spain. Different balls these people. It’s featured in numerous books, taken prisoner in Córdoba, the last stand for the govt resistance, they were annihilated, ran out of ammunition, they had two machine guns between twenty of them. escaped three days later with several others and walked / navigated their way around the spanish coastline until they could get a boat to england. They arrived in Southampton two months later, and were arrested by the British army. He served 8 months, he said ‘ I’ve been fighting nazis for two years, I’m going home ‘ So they locked him up. And he had served in the British army before this albeit briefly. The south had many volunteers to enlist in the army at that time. After eight months the army asked him to train new recruits in gorilla tactics and hand to hand fighting, if he did they would let him out.He agreed, and ended up in the home guard in Northampton 😂 Didn’t raise a catapult in anger 😂
I’m half way through writing a book on those years. Probably be a bit more exciting than some of my swansea ones ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ðŸ‡¨ðŸ‡® |
My grandfather was a Royal Marine Commando in the war, it's possible your grandad trained mine!
I spent ages trying to find out what my Grandpa did in the war, he never talked about it. I don't know much ut what I do know is enough to say he was one hell of a brave man.
Like you say, different times.
PS, Clinical risk management in Primary care is a real page turner! | |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 13:21 - Feb 18 with 1347 views | KeithHaynes |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 13:19 - Feb 18 by Catullus |
My grandfather was a Royal Marine Commando in the war, it's possible your grandad trained mine!
I spent ages trying to find out what my Grandpa did in the war, he never talked about it. I don't know much ut what I do know is enough to say he was one hell of a brave man.
Like you say, different times.
PS, Clinical risk management in Primary care is a real page turner! |
I think he expected to train the army as per his release agreement, but in his words ‘ just sat around waiting for Hitler to turn up ‘ As ever playing down stuff. | |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 04:14 - Feb 19 with 1231 views | RonaldStump |
I call BS on that. The taking of the knee has only become "a Thing" since the killing of George Floyd (I know it started before then but we never seen much of it)
Since it has become 'A thing" we've seen:
The Ol bill getting on their knees at BLM marches while they desecrate statues and
The taking of the knee before games. It's all interlinkied as at the same time you had the BLM flags and badges.
How big has the racial divide become since the Floyd killing? Before that things were actually pretty good, not completely there but much better than today.
Any man/woman worth their salt will agree that we need to get rid of racism, we all want equality and for people to just basically "get on".
A simple answer is scrap the BLM and taking of the knee and rebrand kick it out with maybe the players standing side by side or even arm in arm pre match. At least then you can virtualy guarantee the majority of people will back this 100%.
remember United we stand divided we fall. | |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 05:18 - Feb 19 with 1209 views | RonaldStump |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 18:28 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
Actually it’s exactly the time to alienate.
There aren’t two opposing views both of which have merit. Racism and other forms of bigotry is wrong in society and wrong in football and the almost apologetic attempts to ‘educate’ and ‘raise awareness’ with some easy, middle of the road, non threatening slogans in the past have fallen on deaf ears in some cases. People who are racist don’t need educating, they have been educated enough. They are just pathetic little bigots who are desperate to find someone to ‘look down on’ to make their own failures seem more palatable. They need ostracising and, in the case of football, to be banned for life.
If players choose to take the knee, raise a fist, whatever it may be and some people find that uncomfortable, then tough. Let them feel uncomfortable and alienated. If other players don’t wish to do so, that’s fine as well. People can choose how they want to behave. But anyone that boos any of it when we return, should be ejected from the stadium and should not be allowed back. |
Biggest load of baloney i've ever witnessed on a forum .
Who made you boo queen? | |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 13:09 - Feb 19 with 1137 views | Catullus |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 12:17 - Feb 18 by Dr_Parnassus |
The swastika originated as a symbol of peace and a religious icon. Doesn’t matter does it, it’s what it means now in the country it’s being done in.
The current wave of knee bending came from Kaepernick (who was a God awful QB) who was protesting regarding racial police brutality. BLM (the organisation) adopted it and it swept the world of sport who “wanted in” on the popular movement... except they didn’t look into what they stood for, and didn’t look past the nice sounding name.
To pretend it’s completely seperate and not at all connected is just another political reach.
But again, people can do what they like. If they want to do it they can do it, if people don’t like it they don’t have to. But to pretend those that don’t like it then it must be down to racism is another reach that is becoming more and more farcical not to mention tiresome. [Post edited 18 Feb 2021 12:23]
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It's only connected because people keep connecting it. If we disconnect it then it's better.
Talk about taking the knee and raising the fist as a human rights fight and a protest against racism and forget BLM. It's not really hard, unless people keep coming along claiming it's all linked and always will be.
Things mean what we want them to mean.
The last paragraph, yes. I think both of us got abuse for calling out BLM and refusing to support them. Several times we were called racist because we insisted all lives matter and all racism is wrong. The people calling us racist couldn't even see they were part of the problem, not the answer. | |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 13:35 - Feb 19 with 1128 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 13:09 - Feb 19 by Catullus |
It's only connected because people keep connecting it. If we disconnect it then it's better.
Talk about taking the knee and raising the fist as a human rights fight and a protest against racism and forget BLM. It's not really hard, unless people keep coming along claiming it's all linked and always will be.
Things mean what we want them to mean.
The last paragraph, yes. I think both of us got abuse for calling out BLM and refusing to support them. Several times we were called racist because we insisted all lives matter and all racism is wrong. The people calling us racist couldn't even see they were part of the problem, not the answer. |
The rasing of the fist is not part of the FA message. The FA 'stole' or 'co-opted' the BLM gesture of "taking the knee" repackaged and gave it a 'semi race neutral' meaning.
It was pretty hopeless actually as they were too lazy to make their own gesture The "taking of the knee" is fixed in the public conciousness by the images of George Floyd being choked to death by a policeman in the USA. The decsions of some white public school educated age middle blokes in a meeting at Wembley stadium to redefine the message has no traction.
The FA gesture without the fist is a message. The 'taking the knee with a fist" is a protest. It undermines the FA and with the fist returns it to the BLM protest. The black fist was / is the logo of the BLM.
The "taking the knee" cannot be spearated from a protest by black people against police brutality.
Some will argue its predominantly about the USA. However we in Wales may have our own issues with the South Wales Constabulary following the death of a black Muslim man in Cardiff in January which is now under investigation. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 13:48 - Feb 19 with 1117 views | onehunglow |
Well,Wilf Zaha not going to take the knee neither are Brentford led by Tovey.
It shows how nebulous this topic can be | |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 14:03 - Feb 19 with 1111 views | Catullus |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 13:35 - Feb 19 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The rasing of the fist is not part of the FA message. The FA 'stole' or 'co-opted' the BLM gesture of "taking the knee" repackaged and gave it a 'semi race neutral' meaning.
It was pretty hopeless actually as they were too lazy to make their own gesture The "taking of the knee" is fixed in the public conciousness by the images of George Floyd being choked to death by a policeman in the USA. The decsions of some white public school educated age middle blokes in a meeting at Wembley stadium to redefine the message has no traction.
The FA gesture without the fist is a message. The 'taking the knee with a fist" is a protest. It undermines the FA and with the fist returns it to the BLM protest. The black fist was / is the logo of the BLM.
The "taking the knee" cannot be spearated from a protest by black people against police brutality.
Some will argue its predominantly about the USA. However we in Wales may have our own issues with the South Wales Constabulary following the death of a black Muslim man in Cardiff in January which is now under investigation. |
How did the FA steal something that didn't belong to BLM?
Does clapping only belong to thanking the NHS?
Likewise raing the fist, it never belonged to BLM, they co-opted it.
Of course we can seperate it, we only need to have the will to do so. We could be lazy and keep saying "that's just about BLM" or we could think for ourselves and decide that taking the knee is anti racism and nothing else. What we have made we can unmake and remake.
No Mohammed Hassan,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56077386
We don't know enough to say for sure but there is no evidence of racism, it could be police brutality without racism being involved. | |
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| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 14:31 - Feb 19 with 1101 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| A message from a fan from abused by the far right on 14:03 - Feb 19 by Catullus |
How did the FA steal something that didn't belong to BLM?
Does clapping only belong to thanking the NHS?
Likewise raing the fist, it never belonged to BLM, they co-opted it.
Of course we can seperate it, we only need to have the will to do so. We could be lazy and keep saying "that's just about BLM" or we could think for ourselves and decide that taking the knee is anti racism and nothing else. What we have made we can unmake and remake.
No Mohammed Hassan,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56077386
We don't know enough to say for sure but there is no evidence of racism, it could be police brutality without racism being involved. |
If you look up "taking the knee" in sport on the internet and its origins are clear. I ascribe taking the knee generally as showing respect to the Christain faith. It is clearly not applicable here and has always been slightly uncomfortable to certain people.
It was redefined by the FA and included no fist gestures. Many black players have added the fist gesture which is the logo of the BLM. It is also race specific. I therefore assume they are still aligned to the BLM 'protest' not the FA 'message'. As a Swansea fan I am a little concerned at certain players making 'protests' while wearing a Swansea city shirt.
There was no evidence of race aspect in the killing of George Floyd as far as i know. That may have been straight police brutality. I would have to research it to be sure.
There appears to be an element of "going through the motions" which Les Ferdinand complained about and mission creep as various gestures being used can have an number of intepretations. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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