| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off 14:31 - Jan 24 with 7255 views | JAPRANGERS |
What is going on with BREXIT?? Could someone far more erudite than moi explain easily ??
Why has nothing been done up until now?? [Post edited 24 Jan 2017 14:31]
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| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:04 - Jan 24 with 2086 views | Superhoop83 |
Will no-one think of the Daily Mail readers??
This entire episode has been a national embarrassment from day one. The results of a leave vote were not explained properly because no-one in power thought to explain them properly or, worse, knew what they would entail.
Today's Supreme Court decision was a side show, not to mention a foregone conclusion on which the government has needlessly spnked a ton of our cash. Cameron started this debacle and May has made it worse.
After "the nation speaking" (being 51.9 of those who voted) and despite the promises of a brighter and wealthier future being taken back on the morning of 24th June, most of us have long since accepted the decision. Leave voters like to get angry in their rush to put the Great back in Britain (give me strength) but it's clear we're leaving the EU.
That said, some of us are entitled to believe that nationalism and misinformation tipped the scales here and left us in a mess which will take years to sort out. I wasn't a very strong remain voter but I have become convinced by events since June that the lunatics have, in effect, taken over the asylum - not that many of them like that word. [Post edited 24 Jan 2017 18:22]
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| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:32 - Jan 24 with 2020 views | sevenhoop |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 16:29 - Jan 24 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Nice to hear Essex. No remoaner nonsense from you.
Every, and I mean every, remain voter I have met have accepted the UK's withdrawal from the EU.
The two biggest parties in the UK (Labour and Conservatives), and the SNP have also accepted the UK's wothdrawel from the EU.
The UK will withdraw from the EU.
However, while everyone has accepted the living room needs re decorating, no one can agree on the colour.
Let put an end to this ReMoaner bullshit. It's not a thing.
We are all leavers now. [Post edited 25 Jan 2017 14:17]
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anyone else getting thoroughly bored by the antics of the self-important, self appointed spokeswoman, loves herself, Gina Miller? what an utterly painful woman |  | | |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:38 - Jan 24 with 2007 views | essextaxiboy |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:32 - Jan 24 by sevenhoop |
anyone else getting thoroughly bored by the antics of the self-important, self appointed spokeswoman, loves herself, Gina Miller? what an utterly painful woman |
15 minutes of fame , in years to come it will be a pub quiz question .
She may pop up in the jungle eating kangaroos balls in a couple of years |  | | |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:43 - Jan 24 with 1990 views | easthertsr |
The simple bottom line here is, there will be a few less immigrants, but we will all be worse off! Well done! |  | | |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:46 - Jan 24 with 1983 views | Cliff |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 16:32 - Jan 24 by RamseyR |
Serious question....Did the MPs have a vote when we entered the common market? |
Yes, they debates and passed a bill called the European Communities Act 1972, and it was given royal assent on the 17th October 1972 |  | | |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:55 - Jan 24 with 1965 views | essextaxiboy |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:04 - Jan 24 by Superhoop83 |
Will no-one think of the Daily Mail readers??
This entire episode has been a national embarrassment from day one. The results of a leave vote were not explained properly because no-one in power thought to explain them properly or, worse, knew what they would entail.
Today's Supreme Court decision was a side show, not to mention a foregone conclusion on which the government has needlessly spnked a ton of our cash. Cameron started this debacle and May has made it worse.
After "the nation speaking" (being 51.9 of those who voted) and despite the promises of a brighter and wealthier future being taken back on the morning of 24th June, most of us have long since accepted the decision. Leave voters like to get angry in their rush to put the Great back in Britain (give me strength) but it's clear we're leaving the EU.
That said, some of us are entitled to believe that nationalism and misinformation tipped the scales here and left us in a mess which will take years to sort out. I wasn't a very strong remain voter but I have become convinced by events since June that the lunatics have, in effect, taken over the asylum - not that many of them like that word. [Post edited 24 Jan 2017 18:22]
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Far from being a national embarrassment I think its been a shining example of democracy followed by a legal challenge with checks and balances honed over centuries.
The facts were there to research if you wanted to , as for the amount who voted , whos fault is it if some didnt bother to turn out ?
If we are not Great Britain why do we carry such clout ? 5th largest economy , NHS, City of London , NATO, Foreign Aid that shames much larger countries, a free press, it goes on and on .
We often fail to see how lucky we are to have been born here.
Misinformation was our duty to try and identify before voting . Nationalism was I accept a factor although I would counter that with the power of the Government machine working to stay . | | | |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:55 - Jan 24 with 1965 views | PinnerPaul |
As above - much ado about nothing.
As I understand it all EU laws will stay as law, even after Brexit, until parliament decides to repeal/replace the ones we want to discard.
So parliament is going to vote on all those in any case.
The (in the main) right wing press have created a "narrative" that all that is needed is a bit of "tough negotiating" by Saint Theresa and hey presto we're out and everything in the garden is rosy - not as quick or simple as that.
Lots of twists & turns ahead. | | | |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 20:09 - Jan 24 with 1876 views | Superhoop83 |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:55 - Jan 24 by essextaxiboy |
Far from being a national embarrassment I think its been a shining example of democracy followed by a legal challenge with checks and balances honed over centuries.
The facts were there to research if you wanted to , as for the amount who voted , whos fault is it if some didnt bother to turn out ?
If we are not Great Britain why do we carry such clout ? 5th largest economy , NHS, City of London , NATO, Foreign Aid that shames much larger countries, a free press, it goes on and on .
We often fail to see how lucky we are to have been born here.
Misinformation was our duty to try and identify before voting . Nationalism was I accept a factor although I would counter that with the power of the Government machine working to stay . |
All very fair points.
The embarrassment is more the fact that the country has become so divided and 7 months on it's still a complete mess. I also think politicians on all sides failed to inform the country properly before the vote, which is also why so many leavers are up in arms today.
I'm not querying the stay away vote but it's irritating that people make out this is the will of the people when 48% wanted to stay in. And the Great point was directed at Little Englanders - I agree that this is a good place to live.
Ho hum. We move on. | |
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| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 20:51 - Jan 24 with 1806 views | paulparker |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:43 - Jan 24 by easthertsr |
The simple bottom line here is, there will be a few less immigrants, but we will all be worse off! Well done! |
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 21:12 - Jan 24 with 1762 views | sexton |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:32 - Jan 24 by sevenhoop |
anyone else getting thoroughly bored by the antics of the self-important, self appointed spokeswoman, loves herself, Gina Miller? what an utterly painful woman |
No. She was entitled to bring a case the result of which which has seen the authority of parliament over the executive upheld. I see nothing wrong with that at all. |  | | |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 21:30 - Jan 24 with 1714 views | johncharles |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:32 - Jan 24 by sevenhoop |
anyone else getting thoroughly bored by the antics of the self-important, self appointed spokeswoman, loves herself, Gina Miller? what an utterly painful woman |
According to today's judgement she was right.
Guess that makes you wrong. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 21:51 - Jan 24 with 1672 views | Brightonhoop |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:32 - Jan 24 by sevenhoop |
anyone else getting thoroughly bored by the antics of the self-important, self appointed spokeswoman, loves herself, Gina Miller? what an utterly painful woman |
No. She exercised a right within Law and won at the highest level. I think she is very brave.
And those threatening to rape her via social media etc (classy fellas) need to be found and locked up and the gutter press encouraging them need to be held to account.
In this brave new world of cowardly trolls with 'alternative facts.' This roast beef might also be apple pie.....just open your mind. W4nkers. |  | | |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 21:59 - Jan 24 with 1661 views | E17hoop |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 16:50 - Jan 24 by robith |
Once you trigger Article 50 it's a done deal. If the deal isn't agreed then we are then subject to standard WTO rates on trade which, aren't great. Hence, in one of the few sensible things our govt has done, we're trying to put a bridging agreement in place. Whether it's accepted or not is up for chat.
To be readmitted to the EU we'd have to go through the application process which takes years. So, once that's triggered, clocks ticks and we leave regardless |
Not necessarily; there is an interesting debate around whether triggering A50 can be reversed and it appears it may well be possible.
The March date which May is insisting on is solely to make the 2 years run out before 2020 when she has to go to the country for an election. It's an arbitrary date and a delay in the process through amendment debate or House of Lords would put a spanner in her works. The lack of opposition by the official opposition suggests this might be at best, unlikely. |  |
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| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 22:11 - Jan 24 with 1620 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 16:32 - Jan 24 by RamseyR |
Serious question....Did the MPs have a vote when we entered the common market? |
In 1972, when Heath decided to take Britain into the Common Market, he used Parliament's legal sovereignty to deny and permanently limit the political sovereignty of the electorate. Heath and Parliament changed the basic rules and they did not have the right (legal or moral) to do that. The 1972 European Communities Bill wasn't just another Act of Parliament. Heath's Bill used Parliament's legal sovereignty, and status as representative of the electorate, to deny the fundamental rights of the electorate.
Precedents show that the British constitution (which may not be written and formalised in the same way as the American constitution is presented) but which is, nevertheless, enshrined and codified in the Magna Carta (1215), the Petition of Right (1628), the Bill of Rights (1689) and the Act of Settlement (1701) requires Parliament to consult the electorate directly where constitutional change which would affect their political sovereignty is in prospect. (The 1689 Bill of Rights contains the following oath: `I do declare that no foreign prince, person, prelate, state or potentate hath or ought to have jurisdiction, power, superiority, pre-eminence or authority within this Realm.' Since this Bill has not been repealed it is clear that every treaty Britain has signed with the EU has been illegal.) |  |
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| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 23:14 - Jan 24 with 1529 views | daveB |
The whole remoaner thing gives me the hump. First off because it's almost as stupid a word as Brexit but mostly because when we voted to join in the 70's that wasn't the end of it and the losing side fought for 40 years to change the original decision.
Now they have won this time the other side are supposed to just shut up and get on with it rather than doing the same as the leave side and moaning about it for 40 years. On the night of the vote Farage was on tv basically conceding defeat but said the fight would go on and he'd win the war so you can be sure that if we had remained not a chance that the leave side would have gone off quietly and accepted the result.
basically both sides are arseholes and this is likely to go on for another 40 years |  | | |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 23:53 - Jan 24 with 2106 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 23:14 - Jan 24 by daveB |
The whole remoaner thing gives me the hump. First off because it's almost as stupid a word as Brexit but mostly because when we voted to join in the 70's that wasn't the end of it and the losing side fought for 40 years to change the original decision.
Now they have won this time the other side are supposed to just shut up and get on with it rather than doing the same as the leave side and moaning about it for 40 years. On the night of the vote Farage was on tv basically conceding defeat but said the fight would go on and he'd win the war so you can be sure that if we had remained not a chance that the leave side would have gone off quietly and accepted the result.
basically both sides are arseholes and this is likely to go on for another 40 years |
Firstly as in my post above, we the electorate, did not vote to join in 72
In 75 the referendum was very one-sided propaganda used to influence public opinion.
Why have a referendum 3 years after joining ? well the real reason was that we were taken in to the European Community (the Common Market) llegally by Heath and there was attempts to use the courts to take us out and Wilson could not allow the courts to rule over Parliament sovereignty.
Assurances made then that the EEC would not become what he know today as the EU a State and a lose of national sovereignty were the lies feed to the electorate.
Heath told voters that the EEC was merely a free trade association. we know today (as did many
back then) was a complete lie
If the truth was told in 75 no way would we have stayed in the EEC.
It was and still is the dream of the EU to be sovereign over members. [Post edited 24 Jan 2017 23:59]
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| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 01:00 - Jan 25 with 2062 views | NW5Hoop |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:46 - Jan 24 by Cliff |
Yes, they debates and passed a bill called the European Communities Act 1972, and it was given royal assent on the 17th October 1972 |
However, there was no parliamentary vote after the 1975 EEC referendum. But there's good reason for that: the result of the 1975 referendum didn't change any laws, because the vote was to continue as before, so Parliament had no need to vote on anything: there was nothing to vote on. The crux of this year's case is that this time laws have to be changed as a result of the exit from the EU, both our laws of membership (which had to be passed in Parliament in the first place) and all the stuff under which we are currently governed by European law, but which we'll need to codify for ourselves for exit. And if the the prime minister wants to go about the process of international negotiations that will necessitate changing the law, then parliament — which passed the laws — must have the right to vote on it. It is sovereign; it has the final say. | | | |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 01:02 - Jan 25 with 2060 views | NW5Hoop |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 23:53 - Jan 24 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Firstly as in my post above, we the electorate, did not vote to join in 72
In 75 the referendum was very one-sided propaganda used to influence public opinion.
Why have a referendum 3 years after joining ? well the real reason was that we were taken in to the European Community (the Common Market) llegally by Heath and there was attempts to use the courts to take us out and Wilson could not allow the courts to rule over Parliament sovereignty.
Assurances made then that the EEC would not become what he know today as the EU a State and a lose of national sovereignty were the lies feed to the electorate.
Heath told voters that the EEC was merely a free trade association. we know today (as did many
back then) was a complete lie
If the truth was told in 75 no way would we have stayed in the EEC.
It was and still is the dream of the EU to be sovereign over members. [Post edited 24 Jan 2017 23:59]
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Heath wasn't, of course, the prime minister in 1975. It wasn't a one sided campaign, either. Half the Labour cabinet campaigned to leave. | | | |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 03:39 - Jan 25 with 2032 views | derbyhoop |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 21:59 - Jan 24 by E17hoop |
Not necessarily; there is an interesting debate around whether triggering A50 can be reversed and it appears it may well be possible.
The March date which May is insisting on is solely to make the 2 years run out before 2020 when she has to go to the country for an election. It's an arbitrary date and a delay in the process through amendment debate or House of Lords would put a spanner in her works. The lack of opposition by the official opposition suggests this might be at best, unlikely. |
Others have explained the legal situation which led to yesterday's judgement.
It might just stop May from trying to bypass our sovereign Parliament on other EU related issues.
It is far from clear whether Article 50 can be revoked, should the UK change its mind. I think that scenario is unlikely but could happen if the economic consequences prove to be as disastrous as I expect |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 09:51 - Jan 25 with 1922 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 01:02 - Jan 25 by NW5Hoop |
Heath wasn't, of course, the prime minister in 1975. It wasn't a one sided campaign, either. Half the Labour cabinet campaigned to leave. |
Sorry I should have made it clearer, I said Wilson, should have added the PM
The point I was making was Heath had taken us in to the EEC illegally
Magna Carta (1215), the Petition of Right (1628), the Bill of Rights (1689) and the Act of Settlement (1701)
which to this day still remain
To avoid litigation, as Wilson knew the goverment would lose, he offered what we should have had in 72 a referendum.
However that referendum was to stay in the EEC Common market where it should have been to join and the whole of the Treaty of Rome explained in full, it was not. the public were conned in to believing it was just a free trade association.
This is why it was one sided, you only heard what they wanted to tell you. by both parties. [Post edited 25 Jan 2017 10:02]
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| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 10:51 - Jan 25 with 1860 views | robith |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:38 - Jan 24 by essextaxiboy |
15 minutes of fame , in years to come it will be a pub quiz question .
She may pop up in the jungle eating kangaroos balls in a couple of years |
She's got two degrees and owns several businesses. I doubt that will come to pass |  | | |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 12:58 - Jan 25 with 1793 views | R_from_afar |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 18:55 - Jan 24 by essextaxiboy |
Far from being a national embarrassment I think its been a shining example of democracy followed by a legal challenge with checks and balances honed over centuries.
The facts were there to research if you wanted to , as for the amount who voted , whos fault is it if some didnt bother to turn out ?
If we are not Great Britain why do we carry such clout ? 5th largest economy , NHS, City of London , NATO, Foreign Aid that shames much larger countries, a free press, it goes on and on .
We often fail to see how lucky we are to have been born here.
Misinformation was our duty to try and identify before voting . Nationalism was I accept a factor although I would counter that with the power of the Government machine working to stay . |
Bad news, I'm afraid, GB has now slipped out of the play-off places and is battling away in 7th.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/12/20/india-overtakes-britain-as-the-worlds-sixth-
Perhaps India and France will get a points deduction. You never know.
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 14:29 - Jan 25 with 1723 views | Cliff |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 23:53 - Jan 24 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Firstly as in my post above, we the electorate, did not vote to join in 72
In 75 the referendum was very one-sided propaganda used to influence public opinion.
Why have a referendum 3 years after joining ? well the real reason was that we were taken in to the European Community (the Common Market) llegally by Heath and there was attempts to use the courts to take us out and Wilson could not allow the courts to rule over Parliament sovereignty.
Assurances made then that the EEC would not become what he know today as the EU a State and a lose of national sovereignty were the lies feed to the electorate.
Heath told voters that the EEC was merely a free trade association. we know today (as did many
back then) was a complete lie
If the truth was told in 75 no way would we have stayed in the EEC.
It was and still is the dream of the EU to be sovereign over members. [Post edited 24 Jan 2017 23:59]
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Few things there I would dispute. the first one being that we were taken in illegally because it was against what's written in the Bill of Rights Act. It is often the case that when a new law is passed it supersedes the old laws - I don't believe there is any formal requirement to nullify the old before bringing in the new.
The referendum 3 years after joining could be seen as giving the electorate an informed choice on whether to STAY IN and not join as you seem to suggest. it would be interesting to see what the result of a referendum is 3 years after we have left to see if we thought leaving was a good idea instead of being asked to vote when we had, and indeed still don't have , any real idea of what it will mean. | | | |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 14:58 - Jan 25 with 1691 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 14:29 - Jan 25 by Cliff |
Few things there I would dispute. the first one being that we were taken in illegally because it was against what's written in the Bill of Rights Act. It is often the case that when a new law is passed it supersedes the old laws - I don't believe there is any formal requirement to nullify the old before bringing in the new.
The referendum 3 years after joining could be seen as giving the electorate an informed choice on whether to STAY IN and not join as you seem to suggest. it would be interesting to see what the result of a referendum is 3 years after we have left to see if we thought leaving was a good idea instead of being asked to vote when we had, and indeed still don't have , any real idea of what it will mean. |
Parliament can do whatever it likes.
But that isn't true as we have just seen.
But back in 72 that is what happened, Heath and Parliament changed the basic rules and they did not have the right (legal or moral) to do that.
Bill of Rights Act has never been repealed, it still stands today, it was not replaced by new laws or an act of parliament but side stepped in a change of rules that the public had no say in. | |
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| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 15:41 - Jan 25 with 1663 views | Cliff |
| BREXIT: It's on, it's off, it's on, it's off on 14:58 - Jan 25 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Parliament can do whatever it likes.
But that isn't true as we have just seen.
But back in 72 that is what happened, Heath and Parliament changed the basic rules and they did not have the right (legal or moral) to do that.
Bill of Rights Act has never been repealed, it still stands today, it was not replaced by new laws or an act of parliament but side stepped in a change of rules that the public had no say in. |
There's two ways of thinking about these things - either the public has a say in the making of new laws or they don't. If you are suggesting that the only way the public can have a say is through a referendum then OK I'll accept under that definition the public rarely get any say, if however you accept that when we cast our vote for an MP we are having a say in the make up of the government, then you might be willing to accept that we have had a says in any new legislation. This will apply to ALL laws and acts of parliament, not just the EU issue and the 1972 act we are discussing.
Also as I say before, I don't think news laws have to repeal old ones explicitly, if a new law is passed it automatically supersedes any old ones, therefore the 1972 act overruled some parts of the Bill of Rights | | | |
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