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I know this forum is full of music heads so I thought I'd put this question to you...
Do you agree with David Bowie's view on the Beatles? - See video below:
I think the Beatles are massively overrated. They've got some great songs/albums, but Bowie is right, you don't see their influence in modern music. So much better stuff going on when the Beatles were around.
I heard a story of Lennon & McCartney, while recording Sgt. Pepper, listening to an early pressing of Pet Sounds and realising ooh now we have to up our game.
Although saying that the LP of the time, this side of the Atlantic, which most reminds me of Pet Sounds is the imperious, if not misspelled, Odessey & Oracle by The Zombies. Such a beautiful record.
Back in the 80s and 90s, whenever there was a poll of the best album of all time, almost invariably Pet Sounds seemed to come top.
It is a thing of beauty, so...
Astral Weeks would always be in the top 3, too. Never really listened to it...
It's hard to know if they'd have been less anything without GM. He certainly was part of the perfect storm that resulted in the magnificent output of the Beatles. A producer of comedy platters, who given the appropriate company turns out a genius.
I absolutely love it!
Love the Stones too.
Never really seen it as a competition. Even if the bands themselves did, at the time. Reading a biography of Brian Wilson, he was certainly very competitive. But that drove him to some great musical heights himself. So...
As for ELO. Meh...
The Move, on the other hand. Brummie genius
[Post edited 22 May 2023 12:28]
I recently read David Hepworth's book on Abbey Road and one thing's for sure the Beatles and GM changed the way that bands thought about the process of recording an album forever.
I still like Sgt Pepper but on the other had it remains the only Beatles album I ever bought. I bought a lot more Zep and Floyd back in the day and still listen to the latter.
I think Bowie is talking boll0cks here, and I'm a massive Bowie fan. At the end of that piece he says 'artists make culture, not critics'. Well no other single band has influenced culture - not just music - like the Beatles. And they didn't just influence culture, they transformed it. Never mind the mawkish McCartney songs that get cited in this vid - Penny Lane, Yesterday (which is nevertheless an amazing song) - think about Revolution, All You Need Is Love, Tomorrow Never Knows, Strawberry Fields, Eleanor Rigby - no one, not one single band or artist had ever explored - exploded - music in this way before the the Beatles. They showed everyone who followed that the possibilities, the potential in music, was boundless.
Sure, the Velvet Underground were influential. So were the MC5. So were the Meters. So was Bill Haley. Chuck Berry. Little Richard. Elvis. The Blues. How long do you want to go on? But the Beatles influenced the way people thought about music. And their influence may not be immediately obvious in the various trends that followed, but it's there all right.
The way I look at music is you can show appreciation for a musician, band or genre without actually liking it. I don't like the band Queen but I can appreciate the quality of their writing and playing, not to mention the incredible variety they managed to weave into their songs.
I tend to prefer music which creates a mood so instrumental music is more my thing. When I listen to some early Tangerine Dream albums, I really struggle to work out how they made them. They have somehow combined atmospheres, sound effects, complex rhythms *and* genuinely interesting tunes into a powerful, original and meaningful whole. It's pure genius in my humble opinion. "Tangram" and "Force Majeure," man alive, the A grade material just keeps coming. Immense. "Rubycon" is far from my favourite album of theirs but the first seven minutes are like a recording made when the earth was still in a primeval state. Inspired, breath-taking stuff.
PS: "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture". Attributed to musical comedian Martin Mull
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
I say this with utmost respect and not lightly but f**k The Beatles.
They wrote nursery rhymes (Love Me Do, She Loves you yeah yeah yeah, I want to hold your hand). Basic shit.
And then they got into drugs and wrote unlistenable overproduced studio shit and grew moustaches and thought they were the absolute shit. Well they were, but not in the way they thought.
I've never heard anything by them that's been interesting, challenging or good. Everything has been shit for screaming 13 year old girls. Take That but with instruments. Bullshit band. If they'd come from Coventry or some shit, they'd be just another band.
Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore.
Sure, alternative bands probably do rip off niche-r bands in terms of sound, but the Beatles influence, alongside the Beach Boys, in how popular music is composed and recorded is unbelievable
I say this with utmost respect and not lightly but f**k The Beatles.
They wrote nursery rhymes (Love Me Do, She Loves you yeah yeah yeah, I want to hold your hand). Basic shit.
And then they got into drugs and wrote unlistenable overproduced studio shit and grew moustaches and thought they were the absolute shit. Well they were, but not in the way they thought.
I've never heard anything by them that's been interesting, challenging or good. Everything has been shit for screaming 13 year old girls. Take That but with instruments. Bullshit band. If they'd come from Coventry or some shit, they'd be just another band.
I'm sorry, I respect all opinions, but that just paragraph has got to be a wind up?
Don't know many 13 year old screaming A Day in the Life or Tomorrow Never Knows myself
They didn't scream the songs, they screamed over them. They could have been reading the shipping forecast and the girls would have just screamed.
Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore.
They didn't scream the songs, they screamed over them. They could have been reading the shipping forecast and the girls would have just screamed.
Yeah that was for like 2 years of their recording career, after which they stopped playing live. Made albums like Rubber Soul and Revolver and The Beatles - hardly 13 year old's favourites?
I get that you clearly don't like them, and you're entitled to that opinion, but you can hold it without inventing a new reality
Yeah that was for like 2 years of their recording career, after which they stopped playing live. Made albums like Rubber Soul and Revolver and The Beatles - hardly 13 year old's favourites?
I get that you clearly don't like them, and you're entitled to that opinion, but you can hold it without inventing a new reality
That's like Duran Duran or Kajagoogoo going from making pop hits to trying to write stuff that's meaningful. It's a tale as old as time itself.
But hey, I get it, I often talk a lot of shit so if you can recommend me three undeniably good songs, I'll listen to them again in good faith.
Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore.
Try Rain b-side of Paperback Writer. A great vibey jangle-groove and for innovation (or gimmick) just before the fade the first use of backwards vocals - allegedly
Think Bowie is wrong. The Beatles influence is immense in terms how you wrote and recorded music. For me though there are two other artists that were more influential.
Elvis Presley (not my personal taste) Musically maybe not but in terms of being a music star and performing certainly. James Brown (spawned Funk, and influenced Hip Hop and Rap music) I would argue that James Brown is the most influential artist of all time.
Is Bowie right? Bands starting out with ideas and attitudes and muffled musical skills had to do the 3 chord stuff. Joy Division, Depeche Mode, OMD, Bunnymen U2. All influence by Velvet Underground. So many bands first albums all about riffs and a sound then turning their art to songwriting either lost their way or grew. Writing good songs is an art in itself.
The Beatles influenced songwriters. Guys from Abba said that you had to make every part in a song good just like the Beatles.
Watched moonage daydream and he’s done some great music no doubt, came across sometimes as a bit of a pratt I thought. Yes David it’s ok to ride the wind if you’ve got a full time hairdresser on the books.
Try Rain b-side of Paperback Writer. A great vibey jangle-groove and for innovation (or gimmick) just before the fade the first use of backwards vocals - allegedly
Teddy Bear, and All Shook Up. Great nursery Rhymes. Rock Around the Clock, got things going..
For me I think every man jack of an artist who can play an instrument, write their own tunes and play live deserve the utmost respect.
It's something I would have absolutely loved to have done and to this day I despise my "music teacher" at Secondary School for shattering my dreams and killing my ambition.
I'm a house head - first and foremost - and almost every sub category of that genre appeals to me. However I can easily flip from the back catalogue of Strictly Rhythm Records back to SKA and then onto a bit of Oasis type stuff - my church is broad.
The Beatles.... yep I played a few of their tracks when doing parties such as Fat Dave's 30th or a wedding where Aunty Maude wanted "sumfing we can dance to innit". By no way my favourites but they had a formula of catchy tracks and wide appeal. Now Mr Bowie on the other hand didn't do many tracks I could get into and I did try as lots of the other kids loved his stuff.
Anyway - beauty is in the ear of the beholder.
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
Is Bowie right? Bands starting out with ideas and attitudes and muffled musical skills had to do the 3 chord stuff. Joy Division, Depeche Mode, OMD, Bunnymen U2. All influence by Velvet Underground. So many bands first albums all about riffs and a sound then turning their art to songwriting either lost their way or grew. Writing good songs is an art in itself.
The Beatles influenced songwriters. Guys from Abba said that you had to make every part in a song good just like the Beatles.
Watched moonage daydream and he’s done some great music no doubt, came across sometimes as a bit of a pratt I thought. Yes David it’s ok to ride the wind if you’ve got a full time hairdresser on the books.
Songwriting. I think you've hit the nail on the head there. No one has ever said any of The Beatles were the greatest singers or musicians.
They were the first band I ever got into and I'd been through the entire catalogue including solo albums by the time I was 13, after which I discovered Kraftwerk and then punk and never looked back. Everything up to Help and quite a lot after is loathsome and unlistenable to me now, the sugary melodies and McCartney's cringey Little Richard impersonation are abominable.
Songwriting. I think you've hit the nail on the head there. No one has ever said any of The Beatles were the greatest singers or musicians.
They were the first band I ever got into and I'd been through the entire catalogue including solo albums by the time I was 13, after which I discovered Kraftwerk and then punk and never looked back. Everything up to Help and quite a lot after is loathsome and unlistenable to me now, the sugary melodies and McCartney's cringey Little Richard impersonation are abominable.
Not forgetting that Little Richard was an Esquerita impersonator.
I thoroughly gorged myself on the Beatles at an early age too almost to the point where they didn’t register in my brain anymore. But I still love ‘em and every now and then I’ll play the first LP full volume. Recoded in some ridiculous amount of time like 6 hours or something. The energy coming off it is amazing - you can almost smell the sweat and the clean German pharmaceutical grade amphetamine. A one two three FOUR! …
There are for me about 10 Beatles songs I think are great and similar for Bowie. Some more I can hum along too.
I prefer the Kinks and Small Faces to the Beatles.
I'm not sure on the culture bit though the first Wildhearts album has a few Beatlesesque moments on it so I'm guessing one of them was a fan though the same amount of time has passed from that being recorded as the first Beatles albums were to that!
I saw the Beatles tribute show by Rain? A few years ago, I have to say it was very very good.
I once watched the sun going down from our roof near Waterloo on a sunny day and put on 'Waterloo Sunset' Majik.
[Post edited 23 May 2023 6:18]
Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent
I figured I'd better put some context to my comments.
Here's my problem with The Beatles. There's nothing about their songs. They feel empty.
There's no songs that you want to dance to. Like sure I'm a punk/metal guy but if the right song comes on in my kitchen, I don't give a f**k if it's Fleetwood Mac or some cheesey 80s pop nonsense. I'll have a little boogie. Sure.
There's no songs I'd want to sing along to. Sure they did the rock and roll shouty thing reasonably well but there's no melodies which are crying out to be sung along to. Where's the powerful choruses? Where's the weight?
Listen to something like Eleanor Rigby. It's the equivalent of a harmless 70s sitcom. Just existing. Can't dance, can't sing. Just listen. And that's one of their songs that I hate the least.
There's no cool moments. This is harder to define but sometimes a song throws in a bit, a cool middle eight, a key change towards the end of the song, something that makes the hairs stand up. Where's a bit in a Beatles song which makes you want to immediately rewind and hear it again.
There's no attitude. At the time The Beatles were doing their thing, the Stones were doing theirs and it was just so much cooler (and I'm not even a Stones guy). Sure, they were just ripping off the blues but at least it had a bit of emotional weight behind it. Not to mention that you had Hendrix coming along and just taking everything to a new level.
And musically none of it's impressive either. Like people say Paul was a great bassist. Sorry, I'm not hearing it. He's an okay bassist but there's no lines where I go 'oh shit, that's good'.
Like I was never a Smiths fan but take the bassline from This Charming Man. That's badass. That's memorable. The Beatles never impressed me like that.
For me, The Beatles put the pieces together well but it's meat and potatoes. There's no spice.
Tomorrow Never Knows or whatever, yeah that was okay but it's fully loaded with studio psychedelic bullshit doing all the heavy lifting. At best it's a half-decent drum beat.
Also, their voices have that scouse whine to them. Again, there's nothing cool about it.
A good example is Dear Prudence. Their version is blaverage. More hippy nonsense, nothing cool about it. Trying too hard. Just a bit like 'oooh we're on acid' or whatever. Then you hear the Banshees' version and it's just so much more listenable. Her voice has more weight, the guitars are smoother. And it just feels more rounded out. A bit like Hendrix doing Watchtower. Sure, you have to give the original some credit I guess but Jimi made it awesome where as the Dylan original is blav.
Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore.
As the saying goes - opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one. That's not to denigrate anyone's opinion, it's just a truism. So it's perfectly understandable there are differing opinions on the Beatles. However, to say they had little or no effect on music is not. I've never much liked Elvis Presley, but I'd never think of claiming he was not an important figure in pop music.
The Beatles, along with George Martin, brought massive changes to popular music in the sixties through their songwriting, sound and studio craft. As some have detailed in this thread, other groups and artists of the time openly speak of the influence of the Beatles on them. History will continue to recognise them as one of the greatest ever pop groups.
As the saying goes - opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one. That's not to denigrate anyone's opinion, it's just a truism. So it's perfectly understandable there are differing opinions on the Beatles. However, to say they had little or no effect on music is not. I've never much liked Elvis Presley, but I'd never think of claiming he was not an important figure in pop music.
The Beatles, along with George Martin, brought massive changes to popular music in the sixties through their songwriting, sound and studio craft. As some have detailed in this thread, other groups and artists of the time openly speak of the influence of the Beatles on them. History will continue to recognise them as one of the greatest ever pop groups.
I'd never say they didn't have an effect on music.
They clearly did but as with most things from Liverpool, that's a little overstated.
Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore.
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