| UNITED Kingdom 16:18 - Sep 11 with 17610 views | Catullus |
People can talk about Scottish indy but judging by the crowds forming and growing up in Scotland, a lot of people, a great lot of people are grieving the Queen's death and all across the UK we are seeing people united by this.
Happy times don't bring people together but tragedies do and it looks like the majority see her passing as a tragedy, maybe King Charles can take advantage of this and strengthen the unity going forward.
Will the Queen pasing actually make the UK a more unified place? |  |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 23:32 - Oct 1 with 1260 views | BryanSwan |
| UNITED Kingdom on 22:43 - Oct 1 by Catullus |
Ok, for a fair comparison then, what is the GDP of Cardiff as against the rest of Wales? Can you see my point? |
I know what you're saying, but London having a high GDP has done little to benefit anyone else.
Excluding London and the SE the average GDP per capita is around 25 or 26k.
With the NE being the worst off, followed by ourselves and N.Ire. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 15:26 - Oct 2 with 1213 views | Kilkennyjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 22:17 - Oct 1 by Catullus |
Thing is Londo will always be in England but an Indy Wales wouldn' be in the UK so we have to take that average.
If the Uk broke up entirely then England would be much better off. England must have the highest GDP of the 4 countries and if it's an average then they could easily be up around 120% because if Sootland and NI are being subsidised too then England has to be well above 100.
How an I disagrree about Truss and Kwarteng? Apart from the break up because the tories will surely be voted out at the next opportunity and we won't be having a referenda before that. |
Why then are the English politicos so in favour of the union ?
Otherwise selfish, with a deluded/unhinged exceptionalism based view of the world are suddenly a caring, generous aunt to Cymru, Scotland and the north of Ireland ?
See its not logical is it ?
Whereas the ability to plunder water, oil, energy, people fits far better …… 🇬🇧
If the hat fits wear it. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| UNITED Kingdom on 15:30 - Oct 2 with 1205 views | felixstowe_jack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 15:26 - Oct 2 by Kilkennyjack |
Why then are the English politicos so in favour of the union ?
Otherwise selfish, with a deluded/unhinged exceptionalism based view of the world are suddenly a caring, generous aunt to Cymru, Scotland and the north of Ireland ?
See its not logical is it ?
Whereas the ability to plunder water, oil, energy, people fits far better …… 🇬🇧
If the hat fits wear it. |
A very simple reason the United Kingdom is stronger together sharing the UK's assets and redistributing wealth around the UK. A truly democratic country all the things the EU failed to do. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 15:33 - Oct 2 with 1204 views | felixstowe_jack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 23:32 - Oct 1 by BryanSwan |
I know what you're saying, but London having a high GDP has done little to benefit anyone else.
Excluding London and the SE the average GDP per capita is around 25 or 26k.
With the NE being the worst off, followed by ourselves and N.Ire. |
That is why the wealth generated in London and the South East is distributed around the UK to Scotland, Wales and NI rather than being given to the EU. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 18:04 - Oct 2 with 1184 views | johnlangy |
I’ve commented many times in the past saying that I am very much for Welsh Indy. I’m not an economist but I don’t need to be to make basic suggestions as to how the £13.5 billion Fiscal Deficit is extremely innacurate within the context of an Independent Wales.
I mentioned Welsh taxes paid which are registered as English tax. In an Indy Wales ALL Welsh tax paid would be registered in Wales and that would amount to billions extra. The only question is how many billions. I mentioned defence spending. With the Welsh population amounting to 5% of the UK pop Wales automatically has 5% of the UK’s defence expenditure allocated to it as Welsh Expenditure. That amount is currently about £2.3 billion. Making a logical comparison with what Eire spends on defence, if you assume a proportionate Welsh spend, that would mean a saving of about £1.7 billion. I also regularly mentioned about all the UK Infrastructure projects where Wales ends up contributing 5% toward even though those projects almost never occur in Wales. The enforced Welsh contribution of £5.5 billion toward HS2, for example, is criminal. Not one inch of HS2 will be in Wales.
I came up with all this but admitted that I couldn’t give any definitive answer as to the ACTUAL amounts involved. And I also said I wished Plaid would do that research because they have the resources to do it. They could also commission it to be done.
So they did commission it and Professor Doyle is the man they asked. Because I didn’t know who he was I did a very brief search on google about him.
**************************************************
Academic biography
Professor John Doyle is Vice President for Research in Dublin City University. He was previously Director of DCU Institute for International Conflict Resolution and Reconstruction and Professor of International Conflict Resolution in DCU School of Law and Government. His research interests include comparative nationalist and ethnic conflict; Northern Ireland, conflict in South Asia and Irish foreign policy. He is Editor of Irish Studies in International Affairs. John is also leading DCU's contribution to cross-border collaboration on the island of Ireland, including Ireland North-South: a research programme on the Future of the island of Ireland.  In this capacity John is on the Steering Committee of the ARINS project, a collaboration involving the Royal Irish Academy and the University of Notre Dame and also the board of the Centre for Cross Border Studies.  Â
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Reading that it’s fair to say that he has a very high profile and would, you would reasonably believe, produce as accurate a report as possible. After all it’s his reputation on the line if he’s shown to be wrong or biased.
Whatever your opinion about Welsh Indy, when you see figures like that you have to accept they make the Indy idea perfectly feasible, unless you can come up with a reasonable argument showing them to be wrong.
Felix came up with one criticism. He said ‘The research on Wales' fiscal deficit makes one basic error. It assumes that all people living in Wales would have their state pension paid by England. That would never happen an independent Wales would have to pay their own pension.
Another flawed piece of research by a pro independence Welsh body’.
What Professor Doyle says is perfectly correct. Example — I’m receiving the State Pension. Over forty years I paid all my NI contributions to HMRC. So I expect, quite rightly, that if Wales went Indy tomorrow I’d still get my pension from HMRC. If somebody else has paid twenty years of NI Conts to HMRC and then pays their next twenty years of NI conts into a Welsh tax collecting system they’d get half from HMRC and half from the Welsh equivalent.
And over time, as people pay more and more years of NI conts into the Welsh system eventually the Welsh HMRC equivalent would pay ALL their pension.
Again, whatever your thoughts on Indy you have to admit that if that figure of £2.6 billion was to be shown to be correct it puts a completely different slant on the argument. | | | |
| UNITED Kingdom on 19:35 - Oct 2 with 1155 views | trampie |
| UNITED Kingdom on 18:04 - Oct 2 by johnlangy |
I’ve commented many times in the past saying that I am very much for Welsh Indy. I’m not an economist but I don’t need to be to make basic suggestions as to how the £13.5 billion Fiscal Deficit is extremely innacurate within the context of an Independent Wales.
I mentioned Welsh taxes paid which are registered as English tax. In an Indy Wales ALL Welsh tax paid would be registered in Wales and that would amount to billions extra. The only question is how many billions. I mentioned defence spending. With the Welsh population amounting to 5% of the UK pop Wales automatically has 5% of the UK’s defence expenditure allocated to it as Welsh Expenditure. That amount is currently about £2.3 billion. Making a logical comparison with what Eire spends on defence, if you assume a proportionate Welsh spend, that would mean a saving of about £1.7 billion. I also regularly mentioned about all the UK Infrastructure projects where Wales ends up contributing 5% toward even though those projects almost never occur in Wales. The enforced Welsh contribution of £5.5 billion toward HS2, for example, is criminal. Not one inch of HS2 will be in Wales.
I came up with all this but admitted that I couldn’t give any definitive answer as to the ACTUAL amounts involved. And I also said I wished Plaid would do that research because they have the resources to do it. They could also commission it to be done.
So they did commission it and Professor Doyle is the man they asked. Because I didn’t know who he was I did a very brief search on google about him.
**************************************************
Academic biography
Professor John Doyle is Vice President for Research in Dublin City University. He was previously Director of DCU Institute for International Conflict Resolution and Reconstruction and Professor of International Conflict Resolution in DCU School of Law and Government. His research interests include comparative nationalist and ethnic conflict; Northern Ireland, conflict in South Asia and Irish foreign policy. He is Editor of Irish Studies in International Affairs. John is also leading DCU's contribution to cross-border collaboration on the island of Ireland, including Ireland North-South: a research programme on the Future of the island of Ireland.  In this capacity John is on the Steering Committee of the ARINS project, a collaboration involving the Royal Irish Academy and the University of Notre Dame and also the board of the Centre for Cross Border Studies.  Â
******************************************************
Reading that it’s fair to say that he has a very high profile and would, you would reasonably believe, produce as accurate a report as possible. After all it’s his reputation on the line if he’s shown to be wrong or biased.
Whatever your opinion about Welsh Indy, when you see figures like that you have to accept they make the Indy idea perfectly feasible, unless you can come up with a reasonable argument showing them to be wrong.
Felix came up with one criticism. He said ‘The research on Wales' fiscal deficit makes one basic error. It assumes that all people living in Wales would have their state pension paid by England. That would never happen an independent Wales would have to pay their own pension.
Another flawed piece of research by a pro independence Welsh body’.
What Professor Doyle says is perfectly correct. Example — I’m receiving the State Pension. Over forty years I paid all my NI contributions to HMRC. So I expect, quite rightly, that if Wales went Indy tomorrow I’d still get my pension from HMRC. If somebody else has paid twenty years of NI Conts to HMRC and then pays their next twenty years of NI conts into a Welsh tax collecting system they’d get half from HMRC and half from the Welsh equivalent.
And over time, as people pay more and more years of NI conts into the Welsh system eventually the Welsh HMRC equivalent would pay ALL their pension.
Again, whatever your thoughts on Indy you have to admit that if that figure of £2.6 billion was to be shown to be correct it puts a completely different slant on the argument. |
Top post on the subject as always johnlangy.  |  |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 21:09 - Oct 2 with 1133 views | Catullus |
| UNITED Kingdom on 23:32 - Oct 1 by BryanSwan |
I know what you're saying, but London having a high GDP has done little to benefit anyone else.
Excluding London and the SE the average GDP per capita is around 25 or 26k.
With the NE being the worst off, followed by ourselves and N.Ire. |
What has Cardiff's rise done to benefit the rest of Wales? It's exactly the same progression. The politics are the same, make Cardiff great and the wealth will trickle down but we know tricle down doesn't work. England has proved that making the caputal great doesn't benefit the rest of England.
Yet people sit here and sing the Senedd's praises when they are doing exactly the same in Wales as Westminster has done in England. Those same peole often sing about going indy but tying us in to the EU where we would have even less say in anything. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 21:18 - Oct 2 with 1119 views | trampie |
| UNITED Kingdom on 21:09 - Oct 2 by Catullus |
What has Cardiff's rise done to benefit the rest of Wales? It's exactly the same progression. The politics are the same, make Cardiff great and the wealth will trickle down but we know tricle down doesn't work. England has proved that making the caputal great doesn't benefit the rest of England.
Yet people sit here and sing the Senedd's praises when they are doing exactly the same in Wales as Westminster has done in England. Those same peole often sing about going indy but tying us in to the EU where we would have even less say in anything. |
Nothing will ever change with Westminster because Cons and Labour would not change their city state outlook but in the Senedd if Plaid were in charge, they would take the Senedd around Wales, their AM's constituencies are often the other end of Wales from Cardiff, so there is a possibility of change in an independent Wales as regards the capital but not in England. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 21:23 - Oct 2 with 1118 views | Catullus |
| UNITED Kingdom on 21:18 - Oct 2 by trampie |
Nothing will ever change with Westminster because Cons and Labour would not change their city state outlook but in the Senedd if Plaid were in charge, they would take the Senedd around Wales, their AM's constituencies are often the other end of Wales from Cardiff, so there is a possibility of change in an independent Wales as regards the capital but not in England. |
What? Plaid have been enabling Weslh Labour. Some of the recent controversies are directly because of Plaid.
The proposed change in the voting system, closed lists, because of Plaid. There is a very big reason more people in Wales choose Tory than choose Plaid. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 21:26 - Oct 2 with 1101 views | trampie |
| UNITED Kingdom on 21:23 - Oct 2 by Catullus |
What? Plaid have been enabling Weslh Labour. Some of the recent controversies are directly because of Plaid.
The proposed change in the voting system, closed lists, because of Plaid. There is a very big reason more people in Wales choose Tory than choose Plaid. |
The opportunity to give less to Cardiff and more to the rest of Wales is there, if Plaid was in charge Cardiff would not have as much focus as it gets now. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 22:46 - Oct 2 with 1070 views | Catullus |
| UNITED Kingdom on 21:26 - Oct 2 by trampie |
The opportunity to give less to Cardiff and more to the rest of Wales is there, if Plaid was in charge Cardiff would not have as much focus as it gets now. |
If that is the case then why are Plaid not pushing that now? Why are the purely enabling Welsh labour to carry out some very dubius acts without trying to get fairer treatment for the rest of Wales?
I'm not talking opinions or suppositins now, I'm talking facts, plaid are enabling labour to change the voting system to make Wales undemocratic. WHY? And why do they not try to make Labour spend more outside Cardiff? | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 07:12 - Oct 3 with 1042 views | trampie |
| UNITED Kingdom on 22:46 - Oct 2 by Catullus |
If that is the case then why are Plaid not pushing that now? Why are the purely enabling Welsh labour to carry out some very dubius acts without trying to get fairer treatment for the rest of Wales?
I'm not talking opinions or suppositins now, I'm talking facts, plaid are enabling labour to change the voting system to make Wales undemocratic. WHY? And why do they not try to make Labour spend more outside Cardiff? |
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/what-plaid-cymru-store-neath-23549 | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 09:51 - Oct 3 with 1033 views | johnlangy |
| UNITED Kingdom on 19:35 - Oct 2 by trampie |
Top post on the subject as always johnlangy. |
hengoovemuch as Elvis would have said  | | | |
| UNITED Kingdom on 10:05 - Oct 3 with 1028 views | Catullus |
That doesn't answer the questin in any way, shape or form. Also, it's only if plaid win and they usually come third behind the tories so it's a pipe dream, isn't it.
Plaid don't come anywhere near taking power in the Senedd which in itself shows the lack of support for indy when the tories nearly always beat them.
So lets try again, don't be a politician and answer a question not asked, answer the actual question.
Why do Plaid enable Labour and why do they not push them to spend more outside Cardiff for the betterment of the whole of Wales? | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 10:47 - Oct 3 with 1013 views | trampie |
| UNITED Kingdom on 10:05 - Oct 3 by Catullus |
That doesn't answer the questin in any way, shape or form. Also, it's only if plaid win and they usually come third behind the tories so it's a pipe dream, isn't it.
Plaid don't come anywhere near taking power in the Senedd which in itself shows the lack of support for indy when the tories nearly always beat them.
So lets try again, don't be a politician and answer a question not asked, answer the actual question.
Why do Plaid enable Labour and why do they not push them to spend more outside Cardiff for the betterment of the whole of Wales? |
It's not a coalition it's an agreement in certain policy areas only, it's been seen as a down payment on independence by many people. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 11:57 - Oct 3 with 1006 views | Catullus |
| UNITED Kingdom on 10:47 - Oct 3 by trampie |
It's not a coalition it's an agreement in certain policy areas only, it's been seen as a down payment on independence by many people. |
Yes it's an agreement in certain policy areas, so why did Price not make one of those policy areas about fairer spending across Wales?
I never said it was a coalition by the way, I said Plaid are enabling Labour, which is exactly what they are doing.
How can it be a downpayment on independence? Explain that. There is nothing to guarantee a Plaid run Wales in this agreement, how can there be? Or are you suggesting Labour is making promises it can never keep?
Drakeford has continuously said that while we can have the discussion, he doesn't believe in Indy for Wales. Support for indy fluctuates between 15-25% but has never been anywhere near the magic number needed. The big problem with saying the young are all for indy is, as they grow up and mature, most of them change their minds. Just as many people start off ideologically left wing but most move to the right as they mature which is why we get more tory governments than Labour. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 12:09 - Oct 3 with 1002 views | pencoedjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 10:05 - Oct 3 by Catullus |
That doesn't answer the questin in any way, shape or form. Also, it's only if plaid win and they usually come third behind the tories so it's a pipe dream, isn't it.
Plaid don't come anywhere near taking power in the Senedd which in itself shows the lack of support for indy when the tories nearly always beat them.
So lets try again, don't be a politician and answer a question not asked, answer the actual question.
Why do Plaid enable Labour and why do they not push them to spend more outside Cardiff for the betterment of the whole of Wales? |
If Adam Price came out (excuse the pun) with policies such as a better spread of funding around Wales & improving infrastructure in Wales including a relief road at Newport to attract business into South Wales, I would consider voting for them although I would never want independence.
The above would be a good starting point for a prosperous Wales something the majority of Welsh people want & not all the bollocks some of the Indy lot spout on here.
At the moment he is as pointless a MP as Drakeford to me. |  | | |
| UNITED Kingdom on 12:30 - Oct 3 with 999 views | onehunglow |
| UNITED Kingdom on 12:09 - Oct 3 by pencoedjack |
If Adam Price came out (excuse the pun) with policies such as a better spread of funding around Wales & improving infrastructure in Wales including a relief road at Newport to attract business into South Wales, I would consider voting for them although I would never want independence.
The above would be a good starting point for a prosperous Wales something the majority of Welsh people want & not all the bollocks some of the Indy lot spout on here.
At the moment he is as pointless a MP as Drakeford to me. |
Would a prosperous Wales include the likes of Anglesey or Llyn,miles away from the financial hot spot of Cardiff region | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 15:52 - Oct 3 with 968 views | Kilkennyjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 18:04 - Oct 2 by johnlangy |
I’ve commented many times in the past saying that I am very much for Welsh Indy. I’m not an economist but I don’t need to be to make basic suggestions as to how the £13.5 billion Fiscal Deficit is extremely innacurate within the context of an Independent Wales.
I mentioned Welsh taxes paid which are registered as English tax. In an Indy Wales ALL Welsh tax paid would be registered in Wales and that would amount to billions extra. The only question is how many billions. I mentioned defence spending. With the Welsh population amounting to 5% of the UK pop Wales automatically has 5% of the UK’s defence expenditure allocated to it as Welsh Expenditure. That amount is currently about £2.3 billion. Making a logical comparison with what Eire spends on defence, if you assume a proportionate Welsh spend, that would mean a saving of about £1.7 billion. I also regularly mentioned about all the UK Infrastructure projects where Wales ends up contributing 5% toward even though those projects almost never occur in Wales. The enforced Welsh contribution of £5.5 billion toward HS2, for example, is criminal. Not one inch of HS2 will be in Wales.
I came up with all this but admitted that I couldn’t give any definitive answer as to the ACTUAL amounts involved. And I also said I wished Plaid would do that research because they have the resources to do it. They could also commission it to be done.
So they did commission it and Professor Doyle is the man they asked. Because I didn’t know who he was I did a very brief search on google about him.
**************************************************
Academic biography
Professor John Doyle is Vice President for Research in Dublin City University. He was previously Director of DCU Institute for International Conflict Resolution and Reconstruction and Professor of International Conflict Resolution in DCU School of Law and Government. His research interests include comparative nationalist and ethnic conflict; Northern Ireland, conflict in South Asia and Irish foreign policy. He is Editor of Irish Studies in International Affairs. John is also leading DCU's contribution to cross-border collaboration on the island of Ireland, including Ireland North-South: a research programme on the Future of the island of Ireland.  In this capacity John is on the Steering Committee of the ARINS project, a collaboration involving the Royal Irish Academy and the University of Notre Dame and also the board of the Centre for Cross Border Studies.  Â
******************************************************
Reading that it’s fair to say that he has a very high profile and would, you would reasonably believe, produce as accurate a report as possible. After all it’s his reputation on the line if he’s shown to be wrong or biased.
Whatever your opinion about Welsh Indy, when you see figures like that you have to accept they make the Indy idea perfectly feasible, unless you can come up with a reasonable argument showing them to be wrong.
Felix came up with one criticism. He said ‘The research on Wales' fiscal deficit makes one basic error. It assumes that all people living in Wales would have their state pension paid by England. That would never happen an independent Wales would have to pay their own pension.
Another flawed piece of research by a pro independence Welsh body’.
What Professor Doyle says is perfectly correct. Example — I’m receiving the State Pension. Over forty years I paid all my NI contributions to HMRC. So I expect, quite rightly, that if Wales went Indy tomorrow I’d still get my pension from HMRC. If somebody else has paid twenty years of NI Conts to HMRC and then pays their next twenty years of NI conts into a Welsh tax collecting system they’d get half from HMRC and half from the Welsh equivalent.
And over time, as people pay more and more years of NI conts into the Welsh system eventually the Welsh HMRC equivalent would pay ALL their pension.
Again, whatever your thoughts on Indy you have to admit that if that figure of £2.6 billion was to be shown to be correct it puts a completely different slant on the argument. |
Thank you John. ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| UNITED Kingdom on 16:10 - Oct 3 with 966 views | 73__73 |
| UNITED Kingdom on 18:04 - Oct 2 by johnlangy |
I’ve commented many times in the past saying that I am very much for Welsh Indy. I’m not an economist but I don’t need to be to make basic suggestions as to how the £13.5 billion Fiscal Deficit is extremely innacurate within the context of an Independent Wales.
I mentioned Welsh taxes paid which are registered as English tax. In an Indy Wales ALL Welsh tax paid would be registered in Wales and that would amount to billions extra. The only question is how many billions. I mentioned defence spending. With the Welsh population amounting to 5% of the UK pop Wales automatically has 5% of the UK’s defence expenditure allocated to it as Welsh Expenditure. That amount is currently about £2.3 billion. Making a logical comparison with what Eire spends on defence, if you assume a proportionate Welsh spend, that would mean a saving of about £1.7 billion. I also regularly mentioned about all the UK Infrastructure projects where Wales ends up contributing 5% toward even though those projects almost never occur in Wales. The enforced Welsh contribution of £5.5 billion toward HS2, for example, is criminal. Not one inch of HS2 will be in Wales.
I came up with all this but admitted that I couldn’t give any definitive answer as to the ACTUAL amounts involved. And I also said I wished Plaid would do that research because they have the resources to do it. They could also commission it to be done.
So they did commission it and Professor Doyle is the man they asked. Because I didn’t know who he was I did a very brief search on google about him.
**************************************************
Academic biography
Professor John Doyle is Vice President for Research in Dublin City University. He was previously Director of DCU Institute for International Conflict Resolution and Reconstruction and Professor of International Conflict Resolution in DCU School of Law and Government. His research interests include comparative nationalist and ethnic conflict; Northern Ireland, conflict in South Asia and Irish foreign policy. He is Editor of Irish Studies in International Affairs. John is also leading DCU's contribution to cross-border collaboration on the island of Ireland, including Ireland North-South: a research programme on the Future of the island of Ireland.  In this capacity John is on the Steering Committee of the ARINS project, a collaboration involving the Royal Irish Academy and the University of Notre Dame and also the board of the Centre for Cross Border Studies.  Â
******************************************************
Reading that it’s fair to say that he has a very high profile and would, you would reasonably believe, produce as accurate a report as possible. After all it’s his reputation on the line if he’s shown to be wrong or biased.
Whatever your opinion about Welsh Indy, when you see figures like that you have to accept they make the Indy idea perfectly feasible, unless you can come up with a reasonable argument showing them to be wrong.
Felix came up with one criticism. He said ‘The research on Wales' fiscal deficit makes one basic error. It assumes that all people living in Wales would have their state pension paid by England. That would never happen an independent Wales would have to pay their own pension.
Another flawed piece of research by a pro independence Welsh body’.
What Professor Doyle says is perfectly correct. Example — I’m receiving the State Pension. Over forty years I paid all my NI contributions to HMRC. So I expect, quite rightly, that if Wales went Indy tomorrow I’d still get my pension from HMRC. If somebody else has paid twenty years of NI Conts to HMRC and then pays their next twenty years of NI conts into a Welsh tax collecting system they’d get half from HMRC and half from the Welsh equivalent.
And over time, as people pay more and more years of NI conts into the Welsh system eventually the Welsh HMRC equivalent would pay ALL their pension.
Again, whatever your thoughts on Indy you have to admit that if that figure of £2.6 billion was to be shown to be correct it puts a completely different slant on the argument. |
Complete nonsense. You fail to mention the hundreds of thousands of welsh people who cross into England each day for work. I the event of independence and a possibility of a extreme English government coming to power, they could stop the welsh crossing each day for work. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 17:15 - Oct 3 with 936 views | Kilkennyjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 16:10 - Oct 3 by 73__73 |
Complete nonsense. You fail to mention the hundreds of thousands of welsh people who cross into England each day for work. I the event of independence and a possibility of a extreme English government coming to power, they could stop the welsh crossing each day for work. |
There are borders all over Europe and the world where none of this actually happens.
(Save Palestine)
Your argument is nonsense on stilts.
Its all a perfectly normal situation that most governments manage for the mutual benefit of all.
And Scotland will have sorted it before we get there.
You may as well worry that global warming will drown the lowlands of England and so Wales will need to rescue them all. Its all total bollox. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| UNITED Kingdom on 18:21 - Oct 3 with 911 views | johnlangy |
| UNITED Kingdom on 16:10 - Oct 3 by 73__73 |
Complete nonsense. You fail to mention the hundreds of thousands of welsh people who cross into England each day for work. I the event of independence and a possibility of a extreme English government coming to power, they could stop the welsh crossing each day for work. |
Not the best argument i've ever read 73. | | | |
| UNITED Kingdom on 18:21 - Oct 3 with 910 views | Catullus |
| UNITED Kingdom on 17:15 - Oct 3 by Kilkennyjack |
There are borders all over Europe and the world where none of this actually happens.
(Save Palestine)
Your argument is nonsense on stilts.
Its all a perfectly normal situation that most governments manage for the mutual benefit of all.
And Scotland will have sorted it before we get there.
You may as well worry that global warming will drown the lowlands of England and so Wales will need to rescue them all. Its all total bollox. |
Global warming...seeing as most of Wales popuation lives on the coast, we are more at risk than England. A large chunk of Swansea could be underwater in 50 years.
I actually agree with you about the borders, depending on what actually happens. What if there was hard border with strict security checks? Crossing could take a long time. What if we joined the EU, England is our biggest trading partner, with security checks like we see now at ports, what chaos would that cause?
Remember the massive queues at hours of waiting on Gibraltar after brexit, inside the EU things move smoothly but from the outside? | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 18:32 - Oct 3 with 908 views | johnlangy |
| UNITED Kingdom on 11:57 - Oct 3 by Catullus |
Yes it's an agreement in certain policy areas, so why did Price not make one of those policy areas about fairer spending across Wales?
I never said it was a coalition by the way, I said Plaid are enabling Labour, which is exactly what they are doing.
How can it be a downpayment on independence? Explain that. There is nothing to guarantee a Plaid run Wales in this agreement, how can there be? Or are you suggesting Labour is making promises it can never keep?
Drakeford has continuously said that while we can have the discussion, he doesn't believe in Indy for Wales. Support for indy fluctuates between 15-25% but has never been anywhere near the magic number needed. The big problem with saying the young are all for indy is, as they grow up and mature, most of them change their minds. Just as many people start off ideologically left wing but most move to the right as they mature which is why we get more tory governments than Labour. |
'The big problem with saying the young are all for indy is, as they grow up and mature, most of them change their minds. Just as many people start off ideologically left wing but most move to the right as they mature which is why we get more tory governments than Labour.'
So why do a majority of the mature people in Wales not vote Tory Cat ?
Also you say the support for Indy fluctuates between 15 and 25%. There have been many polls which produce higher figures than that including a very recent yougov (I believe) poll which came up with 30%.
And another thought while i'm at it  . The vast majority of people, when asked why they would not vote for Indy quote the finance argument. So it's reasonable to assume that if Professor Doyle's report is shown to be accurate a substantial number of those who have said no in the past would change to yes. | | | |
| UNITED Kingdom on 19:29 - Oct 3 with 880 views | pencoedjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 18:21 - Oct 3 by Catullus |
Global warming...seeing as most of Wales popuation lives on the coast, we are more at risk than England. A large chunk of Swansea could be underwater in 50 years.
I actually agree with you about the borders, depending on what actually happens. What if there was hard border with strict security checks? Crossing could take a long time. What if we joined the EU, England is our biggest trading partner, with security checks like we see now at ports, what chaos would that cause?
Remember the massive queues at hours of waiting on Gibraltar after brexit, inside the EU things move smoothly but from the outside? |
It’s pretty safe to say that more Welsh people travel to England to work than the English coming the other way.
Taking away the idiot I’m surprised some of the Indy’s can’t see it would damage Wales. | | | |
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