| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row 16:11 - Jan 28 with 11035 views | Stainrod |
What is going on there? I Lost to the mighty Charlton today.
What does this say about our puppy farm? Lack of pedigree?
De Wijs was captaining the team - but I saw the second goal and there was no one within ten yards of the Charlton player to head home.
Appreciate at that level its not all about results, etc etc but is it enough to be constantly told "it was a good run-out"? Should this make us question just how good we are at developing good young talent, or is it that such talent is just not often selected in these fixtures?
I can't say I follow them closely to have an informed opinion but would be interested to hear from someone who follows them more closely. |  | | |  |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 16:17 - Jan 28 with 6048 views | Rangersw12 |
Isn't the U23 more about player development than actual results | | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 16:21 - Jan 28 with 6022 views | Stainrod |
Well up to a point I agree with you - but seven defeats in a row, how well are the players developing? Just asking. | | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 16:31 - Jan 28 with 5966 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
Not sure about us but I always thought Charlton were quite successful at this level. |  |
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| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 16:46 - Jan 28 with 5870 views | swisscottage |
I thought one of the first things Warburton wanted to instil at the club when he came here was a winning mentality.
I know the U23s is more about developing the players of the future, but I do wonder how losing every game instils a winning mentality into their development. | | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 16:54 - Jan 28 with 5839 views | Juzzie |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 16:17 - Jan 28 by Rangersw12 |
Isn't the U23 more about player development than actual results |
I heard a while ago that football coaches use games like this to stress-test players. So, for example, they may be keen to see how a central defender copes so they'll set the team up that allows the opposition to channel down the middle which puts that defender under pressure. The team may concede a few goals but, as said, it's not about the result more about seeing how players cope.
Not saying this happens at QPR but certainly would seem plausible if they did. |  | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 17:22 - Jan 28 with 5704 views | daveB |
I remember the same was said about under 18's side a few years back. The whole point of the under 18's and 23's is to develop players for the first team. The best at that age level are either in the first team or out on loan so results always likely to be up and down |  | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 17:26 - Jan 28 with 5685 views | Logman |
Not bothered at all about the results. All I care about is how the individual players are doing. To the best of my knowledge several of the better U.23's are out on loan at present and other promising ones like Owens and Armstrong have been in and out. The U.23's teams that we have been putting out have been very very experimental. [Post edited 28 Jan 2022 17:26]
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| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 17:42 - Jan 28 with 5615 views | Stainrod |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 17:22 - Jan 28 by daveB |
I remember the same was said about under 18's side a few years back. The whole point of the under 18's and 23's is to develop players for the first team. The best at that age level are either in the first team or out on loan so results always likely to be up and down |
But seven defeats in a row is not up and down - its down and down.
I do get all the points - I even acknowledged some of them in my OP - but I just don't buy it as a total explanation, a partial one maybe, but if I was the director of football I think I would be politely asking a few questions. | | | |
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| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 18:13 - Jan 28 with 5487 views | stevec |
We’ve had a golden spell at that level in the last couple of years, like we had late 60’s and mini ones late 70’s and early 2000’s. They’ll probably be another long barren spell lasting 10 to 20 years before the next one.
Think we go a little over the top on this subject, even now we’re putting out a winning side without a single ex U23 in the starting eleven. Chair and Dieng for sure, but it’s largely about the signings you make outside the club. |  | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 18:17 - Jan 28 with 5449 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 16:54 - Jan 28 by Juzzie |
I heard a while ago that football coaches use games like this to stress-test players. So, for example, they may be keen to see how a central defender copes so they'll set the team up that allows the opposition to channel down the middle which puts that defender under pressure. The team may concede a few goals but, as said, it's not about the result more about seeing how players cope.
Not saying this happens at QPR but certainly would seem plausible if they did. |
You've got to wonder what impact doing stuff like this would have on the morale of a U23 squad full of budding footballers.
My mate was in the Hull u21/3s a few years back and as far as I know, they'd set up to win every game. Even on the odd occasion when they had first-teamers playing, and even ones who blatantly wanted to be somewhere else - It was still about winning. Suppose different clubs and coaches will bring different ideas though.
Can't imagine that 7 straight defeats is helping anybody - Last I saw of our 23s was the 2-0 defeat to Colchester in October - Even I lost inspiration after that |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 18:19 - Jan 28 with 5479 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 17:42 - Jan 28 by Stainrod |
But seven defeats in a row is not up and down - its down and down.
I do get all the points - I even acknowledged some of them in my OP - but I just don't buy it as a total explanation, a partial one maybe, but if I was the director of football I think I would be politely asking a few questions. |
Results at that age are irrelevant. It's good to win, but if you're winning every week at that level you're learning nothing - perversely, it's probably less helpful than losing, because the young players at that age need challenge (just like kids learning anything at school - if it's too easy, it's pointless).
It might well be they're putting a lot of U18s in at the moment - quite a few of our U23s are on loan of course, so that might help explain it. But I suspect Chris Ramsey has a better handle on things than we do and looks at more than results. |  |
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| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 19:04 - Jan 28 with 5353 views | Match82 |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 18:17 - Jan 28 by SheffieldHoop |
You've got to wonder what impact doing stuff like this would have on the morale of a U23 squad full of budding footballers.
My mate was in the Hull u21/3s a few years back and as far as I know, they'd set up to win every game. Even on the odd occasion when they had first-teamers playing, and even ones who blatantly wanted to be somewhere else - It was still about winning. Suppose different clubs and coaches will bring different ideas though.
Can't imagine that 7 straight defeats is helping anybody - Last I saw of our 23s was the 2-0 defeat to Colchester in October - Even I lost inspiration after that |
As long as they are up front about what they want our of the match and all the players buy into it I'm sure it's fine?
If you've told the full back "we know you're going to leave space behind you and give the opposition chances but it's not about the result today, we want you to beat your man and put a cross in five times" and he does that then surely he's going to come out happy?
And if the rest of the team have similar personal goals - win ten headers, take 5 shots from outside the box, whatever, then they are all in the same boat and know that they aren't being judged on the result.
Morale is only affected if you aren't achieving what you intend to. |  | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 20:03 - Jan 28 with 5201 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 19:04 - Jan 28 by Match82 |
As long as they are up front about what they want our of the match and all the players buy into it I'm sure it's fine?
If you've told the full back "we know you're going to leave space behind you and give the opposition chances but it's not about the result today, we want you to beat your man and put a cross in five times" and he does that then surely he's going to come out happy?
And if the rest of the team have similar personal goals - win ten headers, take 5 shots from outside the box, whatever, then they are all in the same boat and know that they aren't being judged on the result.
Morale is only affected if you aren't achieving what you intend to. |
Yeah. At under 10s, maybe. But Under 23 football doesn't work like that. Football is full of egos, even at "youth" (But still professional) level.
The bulk of the Hull team in those days had been signed from elsewhere - quite a few from non-league, a couple of lads from abroad.....Semi-established footballers who already had earned transfers to a team at a higher level. They know their game, they know why they're there, they know what qualities they were signed for. Similar to a lot of our U23s who have come from various places - This stuff about results not being important at this age - These are professional footballers we're talking about, not school kids. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 20:23 - Jan 28 with 5177 views | 1JD |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 20:03 - Jan 28 by SheffieldHoop |
Yeah. At under 10s, maybe. But Under 23 football doesn't work like that. Football is full of egos, even at "youth" (But still professional) level.
The bulk of the Hull team in those days had been signed from elsewhere - quite a few from non-league, a couple of lads from abroad.....Semi-established footballers who already had earned transfers to a team at a higher level. They know their game, they know why they're there, they know what qualities they were signed for. Similar to a lot of our U23s who have come from various places - This stuff about results not being important at this age - These are professional footballers we're talking about, not school kids. |
Agree. The “results don’t count” always comes out when one of our youth teams, ie our 18s or 23s, is losing, and losing a lot. Funny that!
It’s a poor excuse that attempts to cover up the reality - both teams have not been very good for about 3 or 4 years now.
And during that time we have produced no first team talent. As a regular watcher, that doesn’t look like changing any time soon. | | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 20:33 - Jan 28 with 5150 views | Stainrod |
So its good we are losing?
Maybe we should tell that to Man City and Chelsea - perhaps they would like to steal our cunning plan and loose all their U23 games as that will create the right spirit for future top flight players. | | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 21:11 - Jan 28 with 5078 views | kensalriser |
Shocking. I think this warrants a stiff letter to Lee Hoos. |  |
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| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 23:02 - Jan 28 with 4978 views | Rangersw12 |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 20:33 - Jan 28 by Stainrod |
So its good we are losing?
Maybe we should tell that to Man City and Chelsea - perhaps they would like to steal our cunning plan and loose all their U23 games as that will create the right spirit for future top flight players. |
Nobody has said that it's good were losing
It's just not the be all and end all at that level.
Lets be honest the under 23's isn't fit for purpose anyway awful standard and doesn't get young players ready for playing against grown men [Post edited 29 Jan 2022 0:09]
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| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 23:31 - Jan 28 with 4926 views | Benny_the_Ball |
Losing regularly breeds a losing mentality. I can't see how that's helpful to a player's development or the QPR 1st team.
I think it was Iniesta who once said that part of the reason the Spanish international team was so successful during his playing career is because they treated the U21 competitions with respect and looked to win these tournaments in order to breed a winning mentality at senior level. |  | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 04:22 - Jan 29 with 4794 views | Match82 |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 20:23 - Jan 28 by 1JD |
Agree. The “results don’t count” always comes out when one of our youth teams, ie our 18s or 23s, is losing, and losing a lot. Funny that!
It’s a poor excuse that attempts to cover up the reality - both teams have not been very good for about 3 or 4 years now.
And during that time we have produced no first team talent. As a regular watcher, that doesn’t look like changing any time soon. |
"And during that time we have produced no first team talent. As a regular watcher, that doesn’t look like changing any time soon."
Wait, really?
They may not have all come through from the under 12s, but Eze, Dieng, Kakay, Chair have all come through in the last 2-3 years.
Which is more than we have produced in the 10 years before that combined | | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 08:17 - Jan 29 with 4716 views | 1JD |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 04:22 - Jan 29 by Match82 |
"And during that time we have produced no first team talent. As a regular watcher, that doesn’t look like changing any time soon."
Wait, really?
They may not have all come through from the under 12s, but Eze, Dieng, Kakay, Chair have all come through in the last 2-3 years.
Which is more than we have produced in the 10 years before that combined |
Chair is 24 and made his debut aged 19 - 5 years ago. He’s been regularly playing in our first team for nearly 3 seasons. Since he, Eze and Dieng broke through - all part of the same 23 team - the rest of the crop have not been good enough - as has been proven- nothing has come through since. | | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 12:51 - Jan 29 with 4535 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 19:04 - Jan 28 by Match82 |
As long as they are up front about what they want our of the match and all the players buy into it I'm sure it's fine?
If you've told the full back "we know you're going to leave space behind you and give the opposition chances but it's not about the result today, we want you to beat your man and put a cross in five times" and he does that then surely he's going to come out happy?
And if the rest of the team have similar personal goals - win ten headers, take 5 shots from outside the box, whatever, then they are all in the same boat and know that they aren't being judged on the result.
Morale is only affected if you aren't achieving what you intend to. |
I went to the recent Middlesbrough game: QPR were charging fans to watch this match in Recast until a late change of venue to Harlington meant they had to scrap this. This would indicate they saw it as a competitive game and the result mattered.
As it was we were totally outclassed losing 0-5. A number of the Boro players looked like they would be pushing for 1st team selection whereas none of ours looked anywhere near that standard.
That’s why we keep losing IMO. |  | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 13:03 - Jan 29 with 4509 views | Match82 |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 12:51 - Jan 29 by Ned_Kennedys |
I went to the recent Middlesbrough game: QPR were charging fans to watch this match in Recast until a late change of venue to Harlington meant they had to scrap this. This would indicate they saw it as a competitive game and the result mattered.
As it was we were totally outclassed losing 0-5. A number of the Boro players looked like they would be pushing for 1st team selection whereas none of ours looked anywhere near that standard.
That’s why we keep losing IMO. |
I'm the first to admit I know less about this than most on here. I'm 4000 miles away, I don't go to the first team games in person let alone the youth team games. I'm sure you're all right. But years ago we had youth teams that were winning with much more regularity and went through a 20 year barren patch in terms of producing actual talent. Over the past 5 years or so we've been bringing players through so it feels like whatever we are doing is working, or at least working better than it was 5 years ago? | | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 13:52 - Jan 29 with 4438 views | DavieQPR |
If it was about winning then we wouldn't send anyone out on loan. We field a fair few U18s in these sides. |  | | |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 14:11 - Jan 29 with 4408 views | 1JD |
| Under 23s - 7 defeats in a row on 13:52 - Jan 29 by DavieQPR |
If it was about winning then we wouldn't send anyone out on loan. We field a fair few U18s in these sides. |
None of the u18s have played for the 23s this year. The line up mostly consists of 21 and 20 year olds and often includes fringe players from the 1sts. Take for example our most recent game on Friday - we lost 3-1 to Charlton u23s but Hamalainen, Gubbins, DeWjis, Bettache, Alfa all played.
Meanwhile our u18s are currently bottom of the league and just got beat by second bottom Swansea by 5-0. For additional context, our u18s have finished bottom of the league for the last 2 seasons. | | | |
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