| Britain's first black manager on 12:44 - Dec 1 with 4550 views | electricblue |
There was a brief article on north west tonight last week or the week before...
History in the making indeed....... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Britain's first black manager on 13:17 - Dec 1 with 4505 views | mingthemerciless |
Tony Collins was the manager when I first started going to Sporland. I thought he did a great job with next to no resources. Some of my favourite 'Dale players were his signings.
Big Reg, Laurie Calloway, Dave Storf, George Morton, Graham Cunliffe etc. All class acts who were entertainers in their different ways.
He should take a bow. |  | | |
| Britain's first black manager on 13:41 - Dec 1 with 4459 views | SuddenLad |
| Britain's first black manager on 13:17 - Dec 1 by mingthemerciless |
Tony Collins was the manager when I first started going to Sporland. I thought he did a great job with next to no resources. Some of my favourite 'Dale players were his signings.
Big Reg, Laurie Calloway, Dave Storf, George Morton, Graham Cunliffe etc. All class acts who were entertainers in their different ways.
He should take a bow. |
Agree 100%.
My earliest Dale watching days were when TC was manager and the names on your list are permanently etched in my memory bank. Memorable, if not entirely successful, days. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Britain's first black manager on 14:11 - Dec 1 with 4430 views | D_Alien |
TC was a class act at our level and agree with the above about his abilities. It was only long after he'd left that I first saw references to him as a 'black manager' - he was never (as far as I'm aware) referred to in that way when I first started watching Dale. I bumped into him coming out of the newsagents in Cutgate precinct with a copy of the Pink Final - remember those?! - and still not thinking anything about it. |  |
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| Britain's first black manager on 14:44 - Dec 1 with 4384 views | aleanddale |
| Britain's first black manager on 14:11 - Dec 1 by D_Alien |
TC was a class act at our level and agree with the above about his abilities. It was only long after he'd left that I first saw references to him as a 'black manager' - he was never (as far as I'm aware) referred to in that way when I first started watching Dale. I bumped into him coming out of the newsagents in Cutgate precinct with a copy of the Pink Final - remember those?! - and still not thinking anything about it. |
Pink final!!
The running joke was you could leave with 5 minutes to go and pick up a pink on the way out to find out the full time result...
Amazing how they got that out and sold in the blink of an eye!!
Used to love the pink final. | | | |
| Britain's first black manager on 15:25 - Dec 1 with 4329 views | SuddenLad |
| Britain's first black manager on 14:11 - Dec 1 by D_Alien |
TC was a class act at our level and agree with the above about his abilities. It was only long after he'd left that I first saw references to him as a 'black manager' - he was never (as far as I'm aware) referred to in that way when I first started watching Dale. I bumped into him coming out of the newsagents in Cutgate precinct with a copy of the Pink Final - remember those?! - and still not thinking anything about it. |
It does seem ridiculous in these days of 'pigeon-holing' people, but he was never a 'black manager' as far as I was concerned, until someone pointed out the obvious. Similarly, I don't ever recall that 'label' being applied to him. I was briefly friendly with his son Andy in the years that followed and met TC several times at his home. A nicer man you couldn't find. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Britain's first black manager on 15:43 - Dec 1 with 4306 views | firgrovedale51 |
| Britain's first black manager on 13:17 - Dec 1 by mingthemerciless |
Tony Collins was the manager when I first started going to Sporland. I thought he did a great job with next to no resources. Some of my favourite 'Dale players were his signings.
Big Reg, Laurie Calloway, Dave Storf, George Morton, Graham Cunliffe etc. All class acts who were entertainers in their different ways.
He should take a bow. |
Harry Catterick was in charge when I first went to watch the Dale but the one I have memories of is Tony Collins and of course our home tie against Norwich in the League Cup Final ,
I think he went to Man United as a scout . | | | |
| Britain's first black manager on 19:21 - Dec 1 with 4135 views | mingthemerciless |
Yeah " The Football Pink ". You could be playing in a Youth Match on Firgrove on a Saturday afternoon and then read a mini report about your game in the " Pink " that night. I wish I'd have kept the ones I played In. | | | |
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| Britain's first black manager on 20:54 - Dec 1 with 4046 views | rochedale |
| Britain's first black manager on 14:44 - Dec 1 by aleanddale |
Pink final!!
The running joke was you could leave with 5 minutes to go and pick up a pink on the way out to find out the full time result...
Amazing how they got that out and sold in the blink of an eye!!
Used to love the pink final. |
That's pretty much right. I used to deliver the Pink from Stevenson Square newsagents. I used to walk there from The game, calling at Rumbelows in the exchange to hopefully catch a glimpse of Dale and Elton Welsby on.... jeez the name just escaped me. Then I would carry on to Smallbridge and grab my bag off the back door of the shop. First stop was the Bulls Head.
Ahh, the memories. Paid for quite a few Saturday night Kestral Super Strength did that round! |  |
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| Britain's first black manager on 22:16 - Dec 1 with 3979 views | mingthemerciless |
| Britain's first black manager on 20:54 - Dec 1 by rochedale |
That's pretty much right. I used to deliver the Pink from Stevenson Square newsagents. I used to walk there from The game, calling at Rumbelows in the exchange to hopefully catch a glimpse of Dale and Elton Welsby on.... jeez the name just escaped me. Then I would carry on to Smallbridge and grab my bag off the back door of the shop. First stop was the Bulls Head.
Ahh, the memories. Paid for quite a few Saturday night Kestral Super Strength did that round! |
Mm, that's fighting ale. A pal used to drink it all the time. Half a can of Kestrel mixed with half a can of Stella was his favourite drink. He doesn't know what day it is now ! | | | |
| Britain's first black manager on 22:33 - Dec 1 with 3969 views | rochedale |
| Britain's first black manager on 22:16 - Dec 1 by mingthemerciless |
Mm, that's fighting ale. A pal used to drink it all the time. Half a can of Kestrel mixed with half a can of Stella was his favourite drink. He doesn't know what day it is now ! |
I'm not quite sure how we drank it, awful drink, especially warm and as a fifteen year old. But it was a cheap night, 2 cans, job done! | |
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| Britain's first black manager on 09:29 - Dec 2 with 3876 views | since58 |
Can you remember the Pink photographer taking a picture of the crowd in the Sandy Lane.The picture was then put in the Pink with 1 or 2 fans pictures circled .
If I remember correctly did you win a cash prize. | | | |
| Britain's first black manager on 09:39 - Dec 2 with 3869 views | mingthemerciless |
It was a different World then but thinking back I never considered him to be a " black " manager. It never entered my head. | | | |
| Britain's first black manager on 11:14 - Dec 2 with 3838 views | D_Alien |
| Britain's first black manager on 09:39 - Dec 2 by mingthemerciless |
It was a different World then but thinking back I never considered him to be a " black " manager. It never entered my head. |
Just as I was saying earlier in the thread...
Not sure why there's so much emphasis on this in the media. What I'm saying is, he simply wasn't perceived as being black, and that was in an era when being black really stood out
Albert Johannsen (Leeds) and Clyde Best (West Ham) spring to mind as players who had a spotlight on them due to the colour of their skin. It simply never occurred to anyone to consider TC other than as a footballer, then manager so it's odd for this to be happening now | |
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| Britain's first black manager on 11:35 - Dec 2 with 3827 views | mingthemerciless |
| Britain's first black manager on 11:14 - Dec 2 by D_Alien |
Just as I was saying earlier in the thread...
Not sure why there's so much emphasis on this in the media. What I'm saying is, he simply wasn't perceived as being black, and that was in an era when being black really stood out
Albert Johannsen (Leeds) and Clyde Best (West Ham) spring to mind as players who had a spotlight on them due to the colour of their skin. It simply never occurred to anyone to consider TC other than as a footballer, then manager so it's odd for this to be happening now |
Yeah, I agree. I remember Viv Anderson was supposed to the first black England football player. I always thought Paul Reaney of Leeds was at least the same degree of colour as Tony Collins and he wasn't considered black at the time. | | | |
| Britain's first black manager on 11:48 - Dec 2 with 3819 views | D_Alien |
| Britain's first black manager on 11:35 - Dec 2 by mingthemerciless |
Yeah, I agree. I remember Viv Anderson was supposed to the first black England football player. I always thought Paul Reaney of Leeds was at least the same degree of colour as Tony Collins and he wasn't considered black at the time. |
Good shout about Reaney
I think the term that used to be used to describe that type of skin colour was 'swarthy' but it also had undercurrents of criminality. Strange times, looking back, but didn't feel like it back then
Edit: there was also, of course, Basil D'Oliveira, who was referred to as 'Cape-Coloured' Jeez [Post edited 2 Dec 2016 11:54]
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| Britain's first black manager on 17:39 - Dec 2 with 3680 views | Bobbyjoe |
| Britain's first black manager on 11:48 - Dec 2 by D_Alien |
Good shout about Reaney
I think the term that used to be used to describe that type of skin colour was 'swarthy' but it also had undercurrents of criminality. Strange times, looking back, but didn't feel like it back then
Edit: there was also, of course, Basil D'Oliveira, who was referred to as 'Cape-Coloured' Jeez [Post edited 2 Dec 2016 11:54]
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I commend Peter Oborne's book on "Dolly", an astonishing sportsman, whose only wish was to play cricket for his country, denied because he was "Cape-coloured" and, as such, a non-person! | | | |
| Britain's first black manager on 18:00 - Dec 2 with 3664 views | D_Alien |
| Britain's first black manager on 17:39 - Dec 2 by Bobbyjoe |
I commend Peter Oborne's book on "Dolly", an astonishing sportsman, whose only wish was to play cricket for his country, denied because he was "Cape-coloured" and, as such, a non-person! |
Thanks, I'll check that out. The D'Oliveira affair was just on the edge of my awareness at the time, but I have read elsewhere that Nelson Mandela claimed he would never have been freed to become president of a non-apartheid South Africa but for the sporting boycott arising from the affair that eventually led to the regime caving in. | |
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| Britain's first black manager on 18:11 - Dec 2 with 3655 views | mingthemerciless |
| Britain's first black manager on 18:00 - Dec 2 by D_Alien |
Thanks, I'll check that out. The D'Oliveira affair was just on the edge of my awareness at the time, but I have read elsewhere that Nelson Mandela claimed he would never have been freed to become president of a non-apartheid South Africa but for the sporting boycott arising from the affair that eventually led to the regime caving in. |
The much maligned Fidel Castro and Cuba had a big hand in the end of the racist South African regime. The sporting boycott obviously hurt a sport mad country badly but the military bloody noses they suffered hurt more. | | | |
| Britain's first black manager on 20:14 - Dec 2 with 3596 views | pioneer |
| Britain's first black manager on 18:11 - Dec 2 by mingthemerciless |
The much maligned Fidel Castro and Cuba had a big hand in the end of the racist South African regime. The sporting boycott obviously hurt a sport mad country badly but the military bloody noses they suffered hurt more. |
It was the economy on the point of collapse that finally led to the end of apartheid. Of course that was impacted by the levels of military spending but economic sanctions by most major countries push them over the edge.
Yes the Dolly affair was another sad episode for the bumbling MCC - despite him having scored 150 in the home test match he wasn't selected for the tour because the SA government said they wouldn't let him in. Only when Barry Knight pulled out injured did the MCC cave in to public opinion and name him as a replacement and SA then cancelled the tour.
He had first come to UK at the invitation of John Arlott and played for Middleton in the CLL before joining Worcestershire. Arlott travelled to South Africa as a journalist on the first post war tour there but refused to go back. The immigration form he had to complete on arrival asked the question 'Race?' and Arlott is said to have entered 'human' and got a hard time from the authorities. | | | |
| Britain's first black manager on 21:52 - Dec 2 with 3548 views | Bobbyjoe |
| Britain's first black manager on 20:14 - Dec 2 by pioneer |
It was the economy on the point of collapse that finally led to the end of apartheid. Of course that was impacted by the levels of military spending but economic sanctions by most major countries push them over the edge.
Yes the Dolly affair was another sad episode for the bumbling MCC - despite him having scored 150 in the home test match he wasn't selected for the tour because the SA government said they wouldn't let him in. Only when Barry Knight pulled out injured did the MCC cave in to public opinion and name him as a replacement and SA then cancelled the tour.
He had first come to UK at the invitation of John Arlott and played for Middleton in the CLL before joining Worcestershire. Arlott travelled to South Africa as a journalist on the first post war tour there but refused to go back. The immigration form he had to complete on arrival asked the question 'Race?' and Arlott is said to have entered 'human' and got a hard time from the authorities. |
Great men, all. Boyhood heroes, still. Even though we're long past our boyhood! | | | |
| Britain's first black manager on 03:40 - Dec 3 with 3459 views | DiddyDave |
You hardly ever saw the manager in the days when Collins was the boss,they used to sit in the Director`s Box,only the trainer used to sit in the dug out to run on with his magic sponge every now and then. The Football Pink;I had to go into town every Sat`dy night to get one for the old man and one for an old bloke who lived behind the Good Shepherd. Woe betide me if I got there too early and got the early edition with only the half time results on the stop press. I think it was ten bob or a quid if you got your face ringed,Arthur Daley`s dad,Jim,got one up at Hornets one afternoon. Yep,great days,Harry Catterick was the manager when I first started going to Dale and Hornets. | | | |
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