| Brexiters, why? 12:51 - Apr 22 with 31626 views | the_oracle |
When are the Brexiters going to be honest about the reason they want out?
By any objective view business says stay in. Support from the IMF, CBI big businesses like BT vodaphone, Marks and Spencers, BAE, Easy Jet etc etc. World leader say stay in to protect our position as a world power, to hold the EU together, prevent conflict etc. Unions cite worker’s protection as a reason to stay in. All the main parties support in, the Treasury says in. There are warnings from EU leaders that if we are not part of the club we will have serious problems.
I have not heard a single cogent reason, financially, to get out. Kate Hoey one of the Brexit leaders embarrassingly couldn’t site a single report saying why we would be better off. A few politicians led by Boris and Farage are for out. That’s it. There is no clear explanation of what happens next from them, they just don’t seem to know.
Everything seems to point to the view that “remain” is right.
So be honest, Brexiters, is it immigration?
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| Brexiters, why? on 00:46 - Apr 24 with 2676 views | Lohengrin |
| Brexiters, why? on 00:42 - Apr 24 by Loyal |
After being influenced. |
Obeisant to the Banksters and Multi-Nationals? |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Brexiters, why? on 00:47 - Apr 24 with 2676 views | BigPhilG |
| Brexiters, why? on 00:42 - Apr 24 by Loyal |
After being influenced. |
I think they'll try but fail. I know many people are very worried about uncontrolled immigration and are voting out no matter what. I was undecided until this Obamo stunt but after it I will be voting out now because the in campaign seem to be getting very desperate |  | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 01:05 - Apr 24 with 2664 views | Lohengrin |
| Brexiters, why? on 00:47 - Apr 24 by BigPhilG |
I think they'll try but fail. I know many people are very worried about uncontrolled immigration and are voting out no matter what. I was undecided until this Obamo stunt but after it I will be voting out now because the in campaign seem to be getting very desperate |
Clase, if you're reading this... QED!
Inevitable.  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Brexiters, why? on 03:50 - Apr 24 with 2638 views | Humpty |
| Brexiters, why? on 17:27 - Apr 23 by Davillin |
I think you might not have understood my previous post.
I agree completely with your post, above, in every word. I just don't want a misquote to be added to his inane crap; and I don't want posters on here -- or anyone else -- to think he speaks for the U.S.
obama thinks he is the most intelligent person on the planet and that everyone who doesn't agree with him is a stupid c*nt [he'd fit in well here on PlanetSwans]. And he's not satisfied being dictator for the U.S., but wants to be so for the world. |
That'll be the dictator who the American people voted to be the President of the United States of America. Twice.
Republicans, you've got to love them. They're funny. |  | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 06:21 - Apr 24 with 2627 views | Humpty |
| Brexiters, why? on 16:22 - Apr 23 by Davillin |
LB, I have spent about 20 minutes trying to find the text of that speech. I remember him not saying "the US would send Britain to the back of the que [sic]," but that Britain would not do well from the back of the queue, or words to that effect.
I will stand corrected if someone will show me the literal text.
I rush to point out that I do not "defend" obama, as I think he has been the absolute worst president the U.S. has ever had, turning everything he touches into shit.
[I just do not want anyone to think that he speaks for the U.S., because he doesn't.] |
The worst president ever? Everthing he touches turn to shit? Heh. Considering what he was left with, I think he did a fair job.
How about George. W. Bush? Who stole an election and turned a 1.9 trillion dollars surplus into a 1.2 trillion dollars debt. Fair play, you could put me in charge of America, thick as I am, and I could have done better.
And that's forgetting the wars of choice which utterly destabilised the Middle East and created the likes of ISIS. Which is one of the reasons you are now so skint.
Nah. It's all the fault of the dictaor Obama.
BTW Obama does speak for the American people whether you like it or not.
As did Bush. Who was the reason many people all over the worldb have a negative view about America now. Illegal wars, legalizing torture, secret prisons. Stuff like that.
Republicans are funny. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 07:22 - Apr 24 with 2631 views | AnotherJohn |
| Brexiters, why? on 00:05 - Apr 24 by Lohengrin |
Come back and talk to me if Brexit comes to pass... |
Talk about what happens in the EU after it becomes evident that the Visegrad Group don't have the clout to stop the madness? | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 09:56 - Apr 24 with 2585 views | Gowerjack |
| Brexiters, why? on 03:50 - Apr 24 by Humpty |
That'll be the dictator who the American people voted to be the President of the United States of America. Twice.
Republicans, you've got to love them. They're funny. |
Dav obviously doesn't understand how a democracy works. |  |
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| Brexiters, why? on 10:09 - Apr 24 with 2570 views | felixstowe_jack |
Reasons to leave.
1) We pay £350M to the EU every day.
2) Our NHS has to treat people from the EU for free
3) Our Schools have to Educate people from the EU for free
4) We can regain control of our borders
5) British Jobs for British people
6) The EU is undemocratic . Nobody votes for the President or the Commissioners they are appointed usual from failed politicians eh the Kinnocks and Mandelson.
7) 100,000 EU bureaucrats are paid more than our PM
8) the EU is corrupt their accounts have not been signed off for over ten years as the auditors can't trace the money it pays out. | |
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| Brexiters, why? on 10:57 - Apr 24 with 2553 views | Lord_Bony |
It should be noted there are only two countries in the entire Eu that make a positive financial contribution ,that is they pay more money in than they get back in return.
They are Germany and...yes you've guessed it...the United Kingdom.
It would be a big blow to Merkel and Brussels if we decided to leave.... |  |
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| Brexiters, why? on 11:03 - Apr 24 with 2545 views | Whiterockin |
If European and World leaders (who look after themselves) say we are better off in. It is sure as hell the best reason to vote out. |  | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 11:27 - Apr 24 with 2524 views | Lohengrin |
| Brexiters, why? on 09:56 - Apr 24 by Gowerjack |
Dav obviously doesn't understand how a democracy works. |
I'm sure he does, Gower. Just as sure as I am that when Dave and Gideon, the Mike and Bernie Winters of Westminster, take the stage they don't speak for me. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Brexiters, why? on 11:57 - Apr 24 with 2499 views | Lord_Bony |
Strange how the Americans call us up first in times of war as we are their number one ally.
We will stick by them no matter what,they can count on us to watch their back.
Yet when it comes to the economy,jobs and trade agreements they are happy to send us to the back of the line...and put others first. | |
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| Brexiters, why? on 12:09 - Apr 24 with 2487 views | johnlangy |
| Brexiters, why? on 10:09 - Apr 24 by felixstowe_jack |
Reasons to leave.
1) We pay £350M to the EU every day.
2) Our NHS has to treat people from the EU for free
3) Our Schools have to Educate people from the EU for free
4) We can regain control of our borders
5) British Jobs for British people
6) The EU is undemocratic . Nobody votes for the President or the Commissioners they are appointed usual from failed politicians eh the Kinnocks and Mandelson.
7) 100,000 EU bureaucrats are paid more than our PM
8) the EU is corrupt their accounts have not been signed off for over ten years as the auditors can't trace the money it pays out. |
Just for balance.
1) It's actually £350 m a week (every day would equate to over £120 billion). And we get back about half of that.
2) The health services of the other EU countries have to treat UK citizens for free.
3) The schools of the other EU countries have to educate people from the UK for free.
4)We already have control of our borders in relation to the rest of the world (non EU) but still allow about 170,000 people from the rest of the world in each year.
5) Sounds nice but the next time we need a doctor or nurse for our NHS and there aren't any UK trained ones available what should we do ? And bear in mind that, if we recruit a doctor from, say, the Philippines that means that a poor country has spent a lot of their money training that doctor and we reap the benefits. A doctor takes seven years to train and it costs a fortune.
6) I don't understand the whole system but I imagine the appointment of Presidents and Commissioners is similar to the appointment of, say, a Tory leader who by default becomes our Prime Minister if they win (ie we don't vote for him to be our PM). Also Cabinet Members appointed by the PM are not voted in by us. I'm not certain how comparable the jobs are.
7) Don't know.
8) I've read this before and really don't understand how it can happen. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 13:01 - Apr 24 with 2458 views | Highjack |
| Brexiters, why? on 12:09 - Apr 24 by johnlangy |
Just for balance.
1) It's actually £350 m a week (every day would equate to over £120 billion). And we get back about half of that.
2) The health services of the other EU countries have to treat UK citizens for free.
3) The schools of the other EU countries have to educate people from the UK for free.
4)We already have control of our borders in relation to the rest of the world (non EU) but still allow about 170,000 people from the rest of the world in each year.
5) Sounds nice but the next time we need a doctor or nurse for our NHS and there aren't any UK trained ones available what should we do ? And bear in mind that, if we recruit a doctor from, say, the Philippines that means that a poor country has spent a lot of their money training that doctor and we reap the benefits. A doctor takes seven years to train and it costs a fortune.
6) I don't understand the whole system but I imagine the appointment of Presidents and Commissioners is similar to the appointment of, say, a Tory leader who by default becomes our Prime Minister if they win (ie we don't vote for him to be our PM). Also Cabinet Members appointed by the PM are not voted in by us. I'm not certain how comparable the jobs are.
7) Don't know.
8) I've read this before and really don't understand how it can happen. |
2) it wasn't free for me when I done my ankle in after falling off a table whilst pissed in Greece. |  |
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| Brexiters, why? on 13:21 - Apr 24 with 2453 views | siralan |
In theory the EU countries having to treat us is correct however it does not happen in reality
Granddaughter cut her foot on a piece of glass on the beach in Malaga,taken to the local hospital to be stitched was told they could not do it and was sent to a clinic about 1 mile away,they had no option then but pay 110euros and claim it back on the travel insurance but since there was a £70 excess hardly worth it.
The vast majority of Brits who need treatment in other EU countries have to pay or claim on their insurance. [Post edited 24 Apr 2016 13:25]
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| Brexiters, why? on 14:09 - Apr 24 with 2436 views | AnotherJohn |
| Brexiters, why? on 13:21 - Apr 24 by siralan |
In theory the EU countries having to treat us is correct however it does not happen in reality
Granddaughter cut her foot on a piece of glass on the beach in Malaga,taken to the local hospital to be stitched was told they could not do it and was sent to a clinic about 1 mile away,they had no option then but pay 110euros and claim it back on the travel insurance but since there was a £70 excess hardly worth it.
The vast majority of Brits who need treatment in other EU countries have to pay or claim on their insurance. [Post edited 24 Apr 2016 13:25]
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The phrasing the DoH use in describing the benefits of the EHIC is that state healthcare is provided 'free or at reduced cost'. In some EU countries patients must make a co-payment, which since 2014 cannot be re-claimed. Thus in France one could only claim back about 70% of the payment made. In other countries the procedure is to pay and then reclaim, and one should normally make this claim while still in that country. With this there is a hassle factor which may lead some not to bother. Generally there are fewer impediments when EU visitors seek treatment from the NHS.
Here is a webpage that gives an idea of how much a Brit would pay in other EEA countries that are in the scheme.
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/countryguide/Pages/EEAcountries.as [Post edited 25 Apr 2016 7:18]
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| Brexiters, why? on 14:32 - Apr 24 with 2418 views | Highjack |
Another argument the remain brigade like to trot out is that the eu is good for jobs, well there's at least 40000 jobs at risk in steel, and now 11000 going at bhs, with millions unemployed already this argument can be filed in the bin labelled "bollocks". | |
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| Brexiters, why? on 14:38 - Apr 24 with 2414 views | pikeypaul |
| Brexiters, why? on 14:09 - Apr 24 by AnotherJohn |
The phrasing the DoH use in describing the benefits of the EHIC is that state healthcare is provided 'free or at reduced cost'. In some EU countries patients must make a co-payment, which since 2014 cannot be re-claimed. Thus in France one could only claim back about 70% of the payment made. In other countries the procedure is to pay and then reclaim, and one should normally make this claim while still in that country. With this there is a hassle factor which may lead some not to bother. Generally there are fewer impediments when EU visitors seek treatment from the NHS.
Here is a webpage that gives an idea of how much a Brit would pay in other EEA countries that are in the scheme.
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/countryguide/Pages/EEAcountries.as [Post edited 25 Apr 2016 7:18]
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So we pay out there but they do not over here. |  |
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| Brexiters, why? on 15:04 - Apr 24 with 2404 views | AnotherJohn |
| Brexiters, why? on 14:38 - Apr 24 by pikeypaul |
So we pay out there but they do not over here. |
The other countries just have to treat us (more or less) the same as their own citizens. That is part of the problem facing the NHS in the EU. Most of the other systems are social health insurance based schemes where one pays employee contributions to gain scheme membership. Then there is the crisis facing some southern healthcare systems like Greece which have been affected by austerity, which means there is no state care in some circumstances. In the case of the NHS one just needs to be a permanent resident, or in the case of visitors to have an EHIC or other reciprocal agreement. Generally there are fewer hoops to jump through to get NHS care and there are no reimbursable payments or (except for dentistry) co-payments. There is a new NHS charging scheme though where some classes of visitor need to pay an annual fee, so there are signs of tightening up. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 17:58 - Apr 24 with 2365 views | johnlangy |
| Brexiters, why? on 14:32 - Apr 24 by Highjack |
Another argument the remain brigade like to trot out is that the eu is good for jobs, well there's at least 40000 jobs at risk in steel, and now 11000 going at bhs, with millions unemployed already this argument can be filed in the bin labelled "bollocks". |
I presume from that post that you blame the EU for these possible job losses. And the millions unemployed already (actually 1.7 million at the moment) are also the fault of the EU.
One of the main reasons our steel industry is more at risk than in other EU countries is the cost of energy. In China electricity costs 4.5p per kilowatt hour, in the EU generally it costs 5.5p per hour and in the UK it is 9.5p per hour. Those higher costs are purely down to UK government policy. Nothing to do with the EU. And BHS is going down the pan because hardly anyone in the UK buys anything from their stores. How on earth do you blame the EU for that ?
And you also blame the EU for the 1.7 million unemployed ? A 5.1% unemployment rate is very low as it happens. And the Conservatives are continually boasting about all the new jobs they've created. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 18:35 - Apr 24 with 2358 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Brexiters, why? on 17:58 - Apr 24 by johnlangy |
I presume from that post that you blame the EU for these possible job losses. And the millions unemployed already (actually 1.7 million at the moment) are also the fault of the EU.
One of the main reasons our steel industry is more at risk than in other EU countries is the cost of energy. In China electricity costs 4.5p per kilowatt hour, in the EU generally it costs 5.5p per hour and in the UK it is 9.5p per hour. Those higher costs are purely down to UK government policy. Nothing to do with the EU. And BHS is going down the pan because hardly anyone in the UK buys anything from their stores. How on earth do you blame the EU for that ?
And you also blame the EU for the 1.7 million unemployed ? A 5.1% unemployment rate is very low as it happens. And the Conservatives are continually boasting about all the new jobs they've created. |
I suggest you dig a bit deeper when it comes to unemployment rates in Europe. It seems being part of that bloc isnt helpful when looking for jobs.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/ |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Brexiters, why? on 20:45 - Apr 24 with 2318 views | Davillin |
| Brexiters, why? on 11:27 - Apr 24 by Lohengrin |
I'm sure he does, Gower. Just as sure as I am that when Dave and Gideon, the Mike and Bernie Winters of Westminster, take the stage they don't speak for me. |
I'd give a hot cross bun to learn if every P.M. in Gowerjack's lifetime always spoke for him. Gordon Brown AND David Cameron? John Major AND Tony Blair? Is he old enough to remember Margaret Thatcher AND
Harold Wilson?
Many Americans were screaming bloody murder when obama ran for president both times, pointing out his deficiencies and predicting the incipient disaster that would result from his election.
Our problem was that the media chose to emphasize their reasons for wanting him elected, and not the opinions of rational, but opposing, persons. Your [most Brits'] problem was [is] that your mainstream media apes ours. [And "apes" is the perfect word for it.]
What Gowerjack apparently does not remotely understand about democracy is that virtually no-one has ever been elected in a true democracy who represented the country of all of the people. |  |
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| Brexiters, why? on 21:44 - Apr 24 with 2291 views | Gowerjack |
| Brexiters, why? on 20:45 - Apr 24 by Davillin |
I'd give a hot cross bun to learn if every P.M. in Gowerjack's lifetime always spoke for him. Gordon Brown AND David Cameron? John Major AND Tony Blair? Is he old enough to remember Margaret Thatcher AND
Harold Wilson?
Many Americans were screaming bloody murder when obama ran for president both times, pointing out his deficiencies and predicting the incipient disaster that would result from his election.
Our problem was that the media chose to emphasize their reasons for wanting him elected, and not the opinions of rational, but opposing, persons. Your [most Brits'] problem was [is] that your mainstream media apes ours. [And "apes" is the perfect word for it.]
What Gowerjack apparently does not remotely understand about democracy is that virtually no-one has ever been elected in a true democracy who represented the country of all of the people. |
Dav
The 1st PM I can recall was honest Harold ( 1st time around).
Have they always spoken for me?
No.
Thats not how democracy works you are only confirming my original point.
Then you blame the media?
Fair play,too much exposure to Fox News has obviously blunted your critical facilities.
As to your 3rd point I understand that perfectly.
I'm just unsure as to whether you do.
Cheers!
PS it's Obama with a capital O. | |
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| Brexiters, why? on 22:00 - Apr 24 with 2276 views | LeonisGod |
Doesn't seem to be causing us too many problems being in the EU based on those figures. |  | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 22:23 - Apr 24 with 2269 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Brexiters, why? on 22:00 - Apr 24 by LeonisGod |
Doesn't seem to be causing us too many problems being in the EU based on those figures. |
Thats just it, currently we arent part of that. When we are, we get chopped up and the spoils get spread out amongst everyone else. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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