| FFP result with finances out. 07:34 - Feb 20 with 18835 views | Philothesuperhoop |
So does this mean that we’ve just snuck under the allowable FFP losses? Does anyone have the financial results and the ability to interpret them. I.e. know what losses can be deducted from the totals?
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| FFP result with finances out. on 15:38 - Feb 20 with 3930 views | Stainrod |
| FFP result with finances out. on 14:24 - Feb 20 by 1JD |
I didn't do the net on the basis the club know exactly what they are working towards. Find it hard to believe the club bought in players this summer, if it would push them over the line for a breach. So I find it hard to follow your logic. I was just trying to demonstrate a significant reduction in wages from last season has been a major positive in rebalancing our financial position.
That said, we can run simple figures to counter the incomings. Ferdinands salary was rumoured to be 1m. Then we have further reductions likewise from Hoos and Ramsay mid-season. Could easily amount to 2m saved, and cover any wage incomings for Begovic, Cook, etc. As for dev squad, it was pretty much cut in half in the summer. We had nearly 40 players on the books, and now have 19.
p.s. if you actually look back at your comments you will see that you were pretty adamant we had breached multiple times! “We have already breached FFP: 19/20, 20/21, 21/22. It’s down. We’re over £39m losses in that period".
Anyway, good news. But all of this amounts to nothing if we don't stay up. No pressure! |
Appreciate your attempts to comfort us. I don't think there is nearly enough information available yet to say whether we are free of FFP or not but what I would strongly counter is your assumption that because a bunch of people are no longer with their club that our financial obligation to those people ended at that point.
Les, Ramsay, Ainsworth and his backroom team - just a few obvious people we will have had to make settlements on. As for the likes of Johansen, clearly we would have needed to buy up a very significant proportion of his contract.
There might be some clever accountancy sleight of hand - allowable expense? Doesn't seem likely - but my limited understanding is that redondos and the like actually cost very significant amounts in the short term before they save any money, particularly as they are normally paid in a lump sum.
Of course this is just one of myriad aspects in any FFP assessment. |  | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 15:45 - Feb 20 with 3879 views | nick_hammersmith |
| FFP result with finances out. on 08:38 - Feb 20 by BAWHoops |
We *should* be over the worst of it now tbf.
Next set of accounts will likely show more losses, but basically that we chucked everything overboard and the losses should come down from £20m to something not resembling a trainwreck.
That decision not to sell a couple of players in Summer 2022 is looking like an all timer from QPR. Willock, Chair, Dickie, Dieng all would've comfortably fetched close to £10m and massively, massively eased the pain |
I know Hoos said it at the Fans Forum (when we were flying under Beale), but does anyone believe that we turned down any large bids for our "top" players?
I reckon if anyone came in with anything good +£5m for anyone then we would have sold tout suite! |  | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 16:10 - Feb 20 with 3663 views | connell10 |
| FFP result with finances out. on 15:45 - Feb 20 by nick_hammersmith |
I know Hoos said it at the Fans Forum (when we were flying under Beale), but does anyone believe that we turned down any large bids for our "top" players?
I reckon if anyone came in with anything good +£5m for anyone then we would have sold tout suite! |
I'll just ask Simon Saturday....are we f uked ...yes or no.  |  |
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| FFP result with finances out. on 16:10 - Feb 20 with 3663 views | derbyhoop |
| FFP result with finances out. on 15:13 - Feb 20 by colinallcars |
They don't like us much do they ? |
More a case of trying to find a means of staying up. When results on the pitch are unlikely to do it. |  |
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| FFP result with finances out. on 16:14 - Feb 20 with 3608 views | daveB |
| FFP result with finances out. on 15:45 - Feb 20 by nick_hammersmith |
I know Hoos said it at the Fans Forum (when we were flying under Beale), but does anyone believe that we turned down any large bids for our "top" players?
I reckon if anyone came in with anything good +£5m for anyone then we would have sold tout suite! |
They made it clear they would not accept any offers, same as the year before so clubs looked elsewhere
Mind you if Willock hadn't have got injured he may well have gone that summer
[Post edited 20 Feb 16:15]
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| FFP result with finances out. on 16:30 - Feb 20 with 3478 views | Hunterhoop |
| FFP result with finances out. on 14:24 - Feb 20 by 1JD |
I didn't do the net on the basis the club know exactly what they are working towards. Find it hard to believe the club bought in players this summer, if it would push them over the line for a breach. So I find it hard to follow your logic. I was just trying to demonstrate a significant reduction in wages from last season has been a major positive in rebalancing our financial position.
That said, we can run simple figures to counter the incomings. Ferdinands salary was rumoured to be 1m. Then we have further reductions likewise from Hoos and Ramsay mid-season. Could easily amount to 2m saved, and cover any wage incomings for Begovic, Cook, etc. As for dev squad, it was pretty much cut in half in the summer. We had nearly 40 players on the books, and now have 19.
p.s. if you actually look back at your comments you will see that you were pretty adamant we had breached multiple times! “We have already breached FFP: 19/20, 20/21, 21/22. It’s down. We’re over £39m losses in that period".
Anyway, good news. But all of this amounts to nothing if we don't stay up. No pressure! |
Ferdinand’s salary of 1m is a rumour started by Finney.
Hoos hopefully has stopped taking a salary cut but we don’t know that and I wouldn’t hold onto it. Ramsey left half way through the season, so only 50% off books. It won’t be a 2m impact across this season’s accounts. And, again, Nourry isn’t working for free so there is cost to add in.
Given past performance and evidence, I don’t think just blindly trusting the club to have got it right is that sensible. Follow that logic through and you have “never question”.
Like you, I really hope they are bang on their numbers. But don’t forget we are small business by any measure: revenue, EBITDA, or PAT. We won’t have the best accounting team. Mistakes are made. And our owners have made many errors of judgement. The finance department will do as they are told, as Les and Hoos have done in the past with that Warburton gamble year.
I’d like to trust them that they have it all mapped out and it’s fine, but I don’t. Surprised you do.
Based on everything we’ve discussed, I don’t think we’ll get there without another sale or some fudging of the numbers through some funk income stuff (doable).
And on last year’s set of accounts, we’ll only meet FFP if the disallowable costs are in line with the prior years. If they’ve reduced (possible due to Covid excuses dropping out) we could still be tight. Here I have confidence in that the club surely haven’t dropped last year’s accounts and have breached FFP but not said. That would be very foolish. |  | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 16:42 - Feb 20 with 3375 views | dmm |
I get uncomfortable when player and staff salaries are mentioned. Where do people get these figures from? Surely they're not itemised in the accounts, are they? It seems like unhelpful speculation to me. |  | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 17:13 - Feb 20 with 3204 views | R_from_afar |
| FFP result with finances out. on 15:00 - Feb 20 by Northernr |
Presumably all dependent on the bloke he hit with the large stone in the queue for the bus at the kayaking weekend that worried the cat that killed the rat that lived in the house that Illy built not being a thing. |
Do you think it will be long before you publish that podcast you were doing with the lady in the green bikini?
Asking for a friend  |  |
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| FFP result with finances out. on 17:20 - Feb 20 with 3156 views | slmrstid |
Correct, staff salaries are not individually listed. Statutory directors total remuneration will get disclosed, but in our case none of the statutory directors pull a salary. And even then its not disclosed individually.
(Note, having the title "Director" such as "Director of Football" does not make you a statutory Director, so Les Ferdinand's remuneration package would not be publicly viewable). |  | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 17:29 - Feb 20 with 3095 views | Hooping_Mad |
| FFP result with finances out. on 08:39 - Feb 20 by PlanetHonneywood |
Woooohoooo!
Get Tony back, get the check book out, and let's really go for 15th place!!
'kin 'ave it!! |
Careful what you joke about, the wazzock still has an option to buy back his shares. | |
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| FFP result with finances out. on 18:20 - Feb 20 with 2893 views | Smokey |
| FFP result with finances out. on 10:03 - Feb 20 by Northernr |
Well, you can certainly see why it's tight this season!
Oh for the glory days of summer when I was told we'd have £10m+ to spend because we reduced costs so much last season and have had all the additional extras from Palace for Eze. |
This summer though we went on to sign Cook, Colback, Fox, Begovic, Cannon, Cifuentes, Calm, Smyth,
Then Andersen and Frey half a season each. 1 salary
Plus Dykes new contract. You mention Field new contract. Looks like Armstrong too getting a new contract. So all those players increase wage let's call it an extra salary
Can call that 10 salaries.
£10m / 52 weeks then divided by 10 salaries is £19,000 a week.
Doesn't seem that crazy after all that we had £10m of budget to spend this year on new recruits.
Certainly over £5m and fortunately that's a lot better than the doom scenario for spending budget that was being suggested by many.
Also not selling Chair this month when we could have suggests we are going to meet P&S again so we probably aren't fcked.
If we stay up (emphasis on if) then we are set up for a relatively big budget in the summer by our recent standards. Something you weren't anticipating at the end of last season | | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 18:52 - Feb 20 with 2764 views | QPR_Jim |
| FFP result with finances out. on 18:20 - Feb 20 by Smokey |
This summer though we went on to sign Cook, Colback, Fox, Begovic, Cannon, Cifuentes, Calm, Smyth,
Then Andersen and Frey half a season each. 1 salary
Plus Dykes new contract. You mention Field new contract. Looks like Armstrong too getting a new contract. So all those players increase wage let's call it an extra salary
Can call that 10 salaries.
£10m / 52 weeks then divided by 10 salaries is £19,000 a week.
Doesn't seem that crazy after all that we had £10m of budget to spend this year on new recruits.
Certainly over £5m and fortunately that's a lot better than the doom scenario for spending budget that was being suggested by many.
Also not selling Chair this month when we could have suggests we are going to meet P&S again so we probably aren't fcked.
If we stay up (emphasis on if) then we are set up for a relatively big budget in the summer by our recent standards. Something you weren't anticipating at the end of last season |
"Also not selling Chair this month when we could have suggests we are going to meet P&S again so we probably aren't fcked."
That could also be a gamble, two options were:
Sell Chair, likely get relegated to League 1 - FFP doesn't matter.
Keep Chair, 50/50 we get relegated but if we do stay up old costs roll off and we can invest in the squad over the summer to get a 10 point buffer for this time next season.
The club has been known to like a gamble so I wouldn't put it past them. |  | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 19:26 - Feb 20 with 2611 views | Smokey |
| FFP result with finances out. on 18:52 - Feb 20 by QPR_Jim |
"Also not selling Chair this month when we could have suggests we are going to meet P&S again so we probably aren't fcked."
That could also be a gamble, two options were:
Sell Chair, likely get relegated to League 1 - FFP doesn't matter.
Keep Chair, 50/50 we get relegated but if we do stay up old costs roll off and we can invest in the squad over the summer to get a 10 point buffer for this time next season.
The club has been known to like a gamble so I wouldn't put it past them. |
Hadn’t thought of it that way
Would say low probability that is the case. Would be a pretty bold and reckless call from the new CEO and the club post fine have always been clear about the seriousness with which they approach FFP.
So in all likelihood we are fine | | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 20:06 - Feb 20 with 2463 views | Lblock |
| FFP result with finances out. on 15:13 - Feb 20 by colinallcars |
They don't like us much do they ? |
We don’t care |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| FFP result with finances out. on 20:08 - Feb 20 with 2450 views | themodfather |
look football is run by morons who only ignore the spending of man city , chelsea etc they hammer anyone else trying to compete ! var is a mess and so is FFP , fans wanted a level playing field and it is not,
even if qpr scrape by this time, we are still losing £20m + a season which is dire, other clubs lose more.
answer? i haven't a clue | | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 20:29 - Feb 20 with 2393 views | TGRRRSSS |
Football cannot carry on this way but I feel reckoning is coming... look at the Everton debacle then see how they are wondering how to get Chelsea and man City out of it |  | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 20:37 - Feb 20 with 2363 views | lassel |
| FFP result with finances out. on 20:29 - Feb 20 by TGRRRSSS |
Football cannot carry on this way but I feel reckoning is coming... look at the Everton debacle then see how they are wondering how to get Chelsea and man City out of it |
What Everton debacle? Everton breached FFP, Everton plead guilty to breaching FFP and Everton were punished for breaching FFP. | | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 20:42 - Feb 20 with 2330 views | TGRRRSSS |
In the sense they boxed themselves in with Everton and now everyone waits on cites and Chelsea who are far worse but doesn't look like they want to punish | | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 20:48 - Feb 20 with 2299 views | lassel |
| FFP result with finances out. on 20:42 - Feb 20 by TGRRRSSS |
In the sense they boxed themselves in with Everton and now everyone waits on cites and Chelsea who are far worse but doesn't look like they want to punish |
Chelsea have self reported so inevitably it will get pulled up and punished.
City have denied everything and so the PL have to prove their case in due course.
As said, Everton pled guilty so of course their case was ‘easy’ to close. | | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 21:39 - Feb 20 with 2080 views | queensparker |
Sorry to be a moron but what’s the consensus here?
We’re ok for this season but next year’s looking shaky? |  | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 07:23 - Feb 21 with 1559 views | Northernr |
| FFP result with finances out. on 21:39 - Feb 20 by queensparker |
Sorry to be a moron but what’s the consensus here?
We’re ok for this season but next year’s looking shaky? |
The fact they felt able to do some deals at the end of January with the headspace created by losing Dozzell's wage should mean we're tight (very tight) but presumably ok. |  | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 08:49 - Feb 21 with 1350 views | lassel |
| FFP result with finances out. on 07:23 - Feb 21 by Northernr |
The fact they felt able to do some deals at the end of January with the headspace created by losing Dozzell's wage should mean we're tight (very tight) but presumably ok. |
Plus the fact that they sold the rights to the Loft for 18 months in exchange for a box of Krispy Kreme delivered upfront would suggest that they had a target they felt was achievable. | | | |
| FFP result with finances out. on 10:12 - Feb 21 with 1219 views | EastR |
| FFP result with finances out. on 17:20 - Feb 20 by slmrstid |
Correct, staff salaries are not individually listed. Statutory directors total remuneration will get disclosed, but in our case none of the statutory directors pull a salary. And even then its not disclosed individually.
(Note, having the title "Director" such as "Director of Football" does not make you a statutory Director, so Les Ferdinand's remuneration package would not be publicly viewable). |
This is true but there is a requirement to disclose compensation to ‘Key Management’.
These are typically the exec team who report to the Board and are responsible for the day to day running of the club – in our case previously the CEO, the Director of Football. I believe in the period this was Hoos and Ferdinand (not Bhatia, he was a Director in his role as Chair and not paid).
On that basis we could assume the disclosure (note 4) in the accounts related to those two:
Key Management Compensation: (£000's)
2023 - Wages and Salaries 1,688 Other Pension Costs 16 Total £1,704
2022 - Wages and Salaries 1,942 Other pension costs 2 Total £1,944 | |
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| FFP result with finances out. on 10:50 - Feb 21 with 1124 views | slmrstid |
| FFP result with finances out. on 10:12 - Feb 21 by EastR |
This is true but there is a requirement to disclose compensation to ‘Key Management’.
These are typically the exec team who report to the Board and are responsible for the day to day running of the club – in our case previously the CEO, the Director of Football. I believe in the period this was Hoos and Ferdinand (not Bhatia, he was a Director in his role as Chair and not paid).
On that basis we could assume the disclosure (note 4) in the accounts related to those two:
Key Management Compensation: (£000's)
2023 - Wages and Salaries 1,688 Other Pension Costs 16 Total £1,704
2022 - Wages and Salaries 1,942 Other pension costs 2 Total £1,944 |
Fair, you are probably right but it wouldn't just be those two. The CFO and probably Operations Director would be included in there as well, potentially others. | | | |
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