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Have been in the US since the summer and arrived back this week and going to the game on Sat.
I have watched the carnage in the US political system, but that was evened-out in the mid-term elections. Watching the madness this morning, it looks like a Tory coup by the ERG and other right-wing nut-cases.
I am no Tory, but May has to see them off before they throw this country under the bus!
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:10 - Dec 12 with 2363 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:07 - Dec 12 by loftboy
Which is another way of saying the EU has us by the gonads is it not, so another reason to hate the organisation, glad to see you are finally agreeing with me Clive 🤪
Yeh they do, but it's a stupid man who escapes from such a situation by cutting them off.
This post has been edited by an administrator
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:11 - Dec 12 with 2358 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:07 - Dec 12 by Lblock
Did you also subscribe to the view that the UK would immediately spiral into a recession the day after the referendum IF the Leave vote won?
I also wasn’t aware the good old traditional British way of having a right old moan up was monitored so closely on here. That’s a bit of a concern and I’d better refrain from posting should my old mate Taj deliver a lukewarm curry again this Friday
I don't recall ever saying that no but if you find a post from me to the contrary then fair enough.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:14 - Dec 12 with 2339 views
A lot of people in the establishment are absolutely bricking it for what unfolds in the event of no deal but I think it might have to happen to finally let the country decide what to do. If it turns out to be ok then more power to you - if your granny dies as the medicine runs out it might be an idea to rejoin pretty quickly.
What seems pretty clear to me is the system is broken - a 20th century democracy out of time- and things need to change in a big way if nothing else to stop party memberships decide what headbangers get to represent us.
A plague on all their houses.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:16 - Dec 12 with 2321 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:07 - Dec 12 by loftboy
Which is another way of saying the EU has us by the gonads is it not, so another reason to hate the organisation, glad to see you are finally agreeing with me Clive 🤪
It's worth pointing out that we are still part of that 'organisation' at the moment and we benefit from friction-less trade (I'm not saying it's perfect).
Any laws that effect our country have to be ratified by all members - that's why we have different laws over here. Have you noticed, for example, that we still drive on the left and our alcohol age limit is 18 (in Spain it's 16).
Can you give us an example of a law that the EU has imposed on us without our consent?
"Thank you for supporting Queens Park Rangers Steep Staircase"... and I thought I'd signed up for a rollercoaster.
I think the thing we can all agree on is that there isn't a general consensus about what should happen & that's the problem - not sure a referendum is going to change that.
As I said above parliament - majority, minority government, whoever is PM HAVE to vote on something in the end - no 'solution' is going to get a landslide victory, but we will just have to go with the majority verdict.
I'm off to ref chat to continue our 4 page (TRUE!) discussion on the coin toss - it makes about as much sense as this, but is (a bit) more enjoyable!
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:22 - Dec 12 with 2279 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:16 - Dec 12 by Mytch_QPR
It's worth pointing out that we are still part of that 'organisation' at the moment and we benefit from friction-less trade (I'm not saying it's perfect).
Any laws that effect our country have to be ratified by all members - that's why we have different laws over here. Have you noticed, for example, that we still drive on the left and our alcohol age limit is 18 (in Spain it's 16).
Can you give us an example of a law that the EU has imposed on us without our consent?
That one about the metric system, no more lbs and oz's. My Granny lost her marbles over that one.
Royale with Cheese instead of a quarter pounder.
And on a serious note... My weight loss products have had to increase their calories due to EU regulations. Where it took me 6 weeks to shift 2.5 stone (Sorry - 15.8757 kgs), this year it has taken me 12 weeks to lose 3 stone. Who's the winner?
[Post edited 12 Dec 2018 14:26]
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:25 - Dec 12 with 2266 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:16 - Dec 12 by Mytch_QPR
It's worth pointing out that we are still part of that 'organisation' at the moment and we benefit from friction-less trade (I'm not saying it's perfect).
Any laws that effect our country have to be ratified by all members - that's why we have different laws over here. Have you noticed, for example, that we still drive on the left and our alcohol age limit is 18 (in Spain it's 16).
Can you give us an example of a law that the EU has imposed on us without our consent?
Human Rights Bill anyone?
Thousands and thousands of regulations we deem needing following to the nth degree
Etc Etc Etc
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:45 - Dec 12 with 2204 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:25 - Dec 12 by Lblock
Human Rights Bill anyone?
Thousands and thousands of regulations we deem needing following to the nth degree
Etc Etc Etc
This is my big problem with the EU. I get the Economic benefits and that is why we joined but the Europeans want to run Europe politically as well which we didn't sign up for.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:49 - Dec 12 with 2196 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:25 - Dec 12 by Lblock
Human Rights Bill anyone?
Thousands and thousands of regulations we deem needing following to the nth degree
Etc Etc Etc
A little bit of history for you:
"The Convention was drafted by the Council of Europe after World War II. Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe was the Chair of the Committee on Legal and Administrative Questions of the Council's Consultative Assembly from 1949 to 1952, and oversaw the drafting of the European Convention on Human Rights. It was designed to incorporate a traditional civil liberties approach to securing "effective political democracy", from the strong traditions of freedom and liberty in the United Kingdom."
So who imposed what on who?
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:01 - Dec 12 with 2153 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:56 - Dec 12 by Cliff
A little bit of history for you:
"The Convention was drafted by the Council of Europe after World War II. Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe was the Chair of the Committee on Legal and Administrative Questions of the Council's Consultative Assembly from 1949 to 1952, and oversaw the drafting of the European Convention on Human Rights. It was designed to incorporate a traditional civil liberties approach to securing "effective political democracy", from the strong traditions of freedom and liberty in the United Kingdom."
So who imposed what on who?
Yes and the Council of Europe was the brainchild of Churchill and is not the EU or controlled by the EU. The Human Rights bill passed in to UK law (i.e. became an act of parliament) around 1998- again not because of the EU but because it was in the manifesto of the then Labour government.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:06 - Dec 12 with 2122 views
I wonder why the Common Travel Area is never mentioned when the border is discussed. As far as I know, and again somebody will put me right if I am wrong, it has never been rescinded. Whether we leave with a deal or without there will be freedom of movement and labour between the UK and Ireland. My wife is Irish and has an Irish passport but has worked here without a work permit, has voted in our elections, has an NHS number and receives a state pension. She has no more and no less rights in this country as I do. Long before we joined the EU there was no requirement for a passport to travel between the two countries and there is still not. When I travel to Ireland I use my passport as an identity document I could use my driving license. So the only problem with the border is trade so if the EU wanted to this could be solved. Free trade between NI and the Republic. Surely nobody can suggest this would be a way for us to have our cake and eat it by moving all goods for export to the EU through the Irish border
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:09 - Dec 12 with 2113 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 14:56 - Dec 12 by Cliff
A little bit of history for you:
"The Convention was drafted by the Council of Europe after World War II. Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe was the Chair of the Committee on Legal and Administrative Questions of the Council's Consultative Assembly from 1949 to 1952, and oversaw the drafting of the European Convention on Human Rights. It was designed to incorporate a traditional civil liberties approach to securing "effective political democracy", from the strong traditions of freedom and liberty in the United Kingdom."
So who imposed what on who?
So we don't need the EU to look after out human rights.
We have one poster say they voted to remain to protect our human rights and another saying the EU did not inflict human rights legislation on us and it was the other way round
[Post edited 12 Dec 2018 15:16]
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:18 - Dec 12 with 2088 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:06 - Dec 12 by QPR_John
I wonder why the Common Travel Area is never mentioned when the border is discussed. As far as I know, and again somebody will put me right if I am wrong, it has never been rescinded. Whether we leave with a deal or without there will be freedom of movement and labour between the UK and Ireland. My wife is Irish and has an Irish passport but has worked here without a work permit, has voted in our elections, has an NHS number and receives a state pension. She has no more and no less rights in this country as I do. Long before we joined the EU there was no requirement for a passport to travel between the two countries and there is still not. When I travel to Ireland I use my passport as an identity document I could use my driving license. So the only problem with the border is trade so if the EU wanted to this could be solved. Free trade between NI and the Republic. Surely nobody can suggest this would be a way for us to have our cake and eat it by moving all goods for export to the EU through the Irish border
The common travel area predates the EU but does not cover goods which is why in border counties there was a long tradition of smuggling which predated 1973 when Ireland and the UK joined the EU. Those areas were seen as quite lawless and in Northern Ireland were usually strongly Irish nationalist so cheating the UK exchequer was viewed by some as a noble endeavour.
In goods however for the first time in history the UK will have a land border with a European neighbour (well since the act of union) making the customs union and single market very difficult to work with. Getting rid of May does not solve this and neither does no deal- even the intention of no dealers is to have a trade deal with Europe and this issue will stay at the top of the pile for those negotiations. It could be solved of course by GB jettisoning Northern Ireland into a United Ireland- a great irony if the conservative and unionist party pull that one off.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:18 - Dec 12 with 2087 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:11 - Dec 12 by QPR_John
So we don't need the EU to look after out human rights.
We have one poster say they voted to remain to protect our human rights and another saying the EU did not inflict human rights legislation on us and it was the other way round
[Post edited 12 Dec 2018 15:16]
No we don't. We oversaw the writing on the Convention on Human Rights, and as someone said earlier it is a part of UK law and so with us whether or not we leave the EU, by either the hard or soft options.
My point was, it wasn't and never has been imposed on us.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:19 - Dec 12 with 2079 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:18 - Dec 12 by Cliff
No we don't. We oversaw the writing on the Convention on Human Rights, and as someone said earlier it is a part of UK law and so with us whether or not we leave the EU, by either the hard or soft options.
My point was, it wasn't and never has been imposed on us.
I was agreeing with you just pointing out the diametrically opposite views of one post saying we need the EU to look after us and your post. It could be said that members of the EU need us to look after their human rights
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:30 - Dec 12 with 2031 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:19 - Dec 12 by Dorse
Now, I don't pretend to understand all the factors of this argument.
That's it really. As you were.
Me neither, but what I do know is that as he walks away (back view) the jeans are ankle tight; as we view from the front they are jacked up and swinging like good-uns
It's an interesting metaphor.
Maybe he ripped them.
And he has changed his shirt. I'm confused.
[Post edited 12 Dec 2018 15:31]
Did I ever mention that I was in Minder?
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:31 - Dec 12 with 2020 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:27 - Dec 12 by QPR_John
I was agreeing with you just pointing out the diametrically opposite views of one post saying we need the EU to look after us and your post. It could be said that members of the EU need us to look after their human rights
Thanks and sorry - I read your first sentence as a question even though it didn't have a question mark!
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:36 - Dec 12 with 1999 views
The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:10 - Dec 12 by Northernr
You've seen our government and our opposition right? We need all the fcking protection from that lot we can get.
Bang on!
JRM and his ERG cronies have no interest in the "common man". They are independently wealthy and will be fine but sod the rest of us. It's no coincidence that the EU members are now openly trying to rescue us from a no-deal - they know the consequences for our economy and day-to-day living. This is on a par with the financial crash but with other elements added in.
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The Tories Are Bonkers! on 15:48 - Dec 12 with 1951 views
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