| Laird in on 07:34 - Aug 16 with 2886 views | Antti_Heinola |
The narrative that MW was sacked (semantics, but he wasn't sacked) because he didn't play young players is a very odd one based o a bit of hearsay leaking from the club. But let's be clear: if we had finished 6th, MW would still be our manager. He was sacked because our form fell off a cliff and had we played a full season like that we would have been relegated.
The rights and wrongs of the decision not t renew his contract can be debated, but the use of youth or not is irrelevant if you are successful: MW oversaw a truly dreadful run, and the owners lost patience. He certainly was not removed for not giving more game time to Hamaleinen or Bettache. The Board were extremely fair and gave him all the backing they could and in return he did a fine job for us, and would've continued to do so. To continue to peddle this theory that he was fired for not playing youth is a fallacy. It might have been an element, but that element only burns if you're not winning games. |  |
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| Laird in on 07:53 - Aug 16 with 2794 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Laird in on 07:34 - Aug 16 by Antti_Heinola |
The narrative that MW was sacked (semantics, but he wasn't sacked) because he didn't play young players is a very odd one based o a bit of hearsay leaking from the club. But let's be clear: if we had finished 6th, MW would still be our manager. He was sacked because our form fell off a cliff and had we played a full season like that we would have been relegated.
The rights and wrongs of the decision not t renew his contract can be debated, but the use of youth or not is irrelevant if you are successful: MW oversaw a truly dreadful run, and the owners lost patience. He certainly was not removed for not giving more game time to Hamaleinen or Bettache. The Board were extremely fair and gave him all the backing they could and in return he did a fine job for us, and would've continued to do so. To continue to peddle this theory that he was fired for not playing youth is a fallacy. It might have been an element, but that element only burns if you're not winning games. |
He did deliberately leave a space on the bench rather than take a youngster in a game once though didn’t he or did I imagine that?
Edit: Stoke (H) December 5th 2021 [Post edited 16 Aug 2022 7:57]
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| Laird in on 07:55 - Aug 16 with 2791 views | distortR |
| Laird in on 00:03 - Aug 16 by daveB |
not sure thats entirely fair. Eze speaks highly of both of them saying they were a major part of his development |
Absolutely. I believe Ramsey works across the board, while Hall is U23's manager. So when the likes of Sinclair Armstrong come in from other teams, that will be part of what they are looking at and talking to. The number of trialists who play for us, it's clear we are constantly looking for undiscovered gems, but the better financed, more successful teams in our catchment area hoover everything they can up, and then spit the majority of it out some time down the road. many of those kids would be better off starting their careers at us, Millwall etc, but it's a hard sell. |  | | |
| Laird in on 08:05 - Aug 16 with 2740 views | SouthallRanger |
Same d these things above already but have another point to add:
The MW sacking “non contract renewal” thing to do with not giving youth a chance seems naive. There must have been more to it behind the scenes. Maybe it’s more to do with the fact that we pushed the financial boat out and he failed to get a playoff spot in such capitulating fashion. The fact that Eustace wasn’t given the job even though we had almost been grooming him to be our young up and coming manager for years tells you all you need to know.
As for our first team. Who on earth thought our policy was to give our youth a chance and nothing else. It obviously needs to be a mix. We have bought in zero experienced players in their late twenties or early thirties. Doesn’t that tell you that we have a policy. Seems a mix to me:
1) giving our youth a chance (be it through policy or necessity): kaykay, nico, shodipo, Armstrong, plus others who are training with the first team
2) buying players who are young enough and might have re-sale value: Clark salter, paal
3) loans that are relatively young where we have chances or obligations to buy: richards, roberts
This seems ok to me especially on our budget. The only out and out loan seems to be Laird and that’s because we were getting desperate at right back. Nothing wrong with that if we think we can push for playoff spot or need to avoid relegation battle.
All in all, the mixed policy seems ok to me | | | |
| Laird in on 08:07 - Aug 16 with 2712 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Laird in on 02:16 - Aug 16 by nix |
I agree but also we've got rid of several expensive players from last season: Wallace, Austin, Gray, Odubajo, maybe Barbet and Macallum. I think we almost certainly have a Roberts and Paal for the cost of Austin, and so on. I hope that's true. |
Delighted with the signing. Yes, we should be developing our own players but not at the expense of being competitive. Kakay is fine as cover but he's never going to turn into Cafu at this stage of his career. Beale is clearly giving youth more of a chance than Warburton (as shown by Armstrong) but he's a winner and doesn't want us turning into a feeder club for Palace or - gulp - Brentford. | | | |
| Laird in on 08:37 - Aug 16 with 2638 views | gazza1 |
| Laird in on 07:34 - Aug 16 by Antti_Heinola |
The narrative that MW was sacked (semantics, but he wasn't sacked) because he didn't play young players is a very odd one based o a bit of hearsay leaking from the club. But let's be clear: if we had finished 6th, MW would still be our manager. He was sacked because our form fell off a cliff and had we played a full season like that we would have been relegated.
The rights and wrongs of the decision not t renew his contract can be debated, but the use of youth or not is irrelevant if you are successful: MW oversaw a truly dreadful run, and the owners lost patience. He certainly was not removed for not giving more game time to Hamaleinen or Bettache. The Board were extremely fair and gave him all the backing they could and in return he did a fine job for us, and would've continued to do so. To continue to peddle this theory that he was fired for not playing youth is a fallacy. It might have been an element, but that element only burns if you're not winning games. |
I agree.......to suggest that he got sacked or his contract wasn't renewed because of not playing young graduates is not right. It was a lot of things put together. | | | |
| Laird in on 09:26 - Aug 16 with 2562 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Laird in on 10:29 - Aug 15 by PunteR |
Do we ever get decent players from Utd?
Hope it works out and Kakay raises his game. |
Federico Macheda? |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Laird in on 09:46 - Aug 16 with 2497 views | BklynRanger |
| Laird in on 08:07 - Aug 16 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Delighted with the signing. Yes, we should be developing our own players but not at the expense of being competitive. Kakay is fine as cover but he's never going to turn into Cafu at this stage of his career. Beale is clearly giving youth more of a chance than Warburton (as shown by Armstrong) but he's a winner and doesn't want us turning into a feeder club for Palace or - gulp - Brentford. |
Yeah - would rather we'd d been able get in a permanent for such a key position, but it seems we tried.
It's a long season and am looking forward to watching this lad - looks to have a lot about him. I won't hope for a Kyle Walker level of impact but you never know. |  | | |
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| Laird in on 09:52 - Aug 16 with 2461 views | terryb |
| Laird in on 01:16 - Aug 16 by SydneyRs |
Celtic famously won the European cup with a team of locally based players. May well have signed some from other Scottish clubs though. |
I don't know about the rest of the side, but the goalkeeper, Ronnie Simpson, played for four clubs before Celtic. This included a spell in England with Newcastle.
"Mainly remembered for his time with Celtic, but prior he played for Queen’s Park, Third Lanark, Newcastle United and Hibernian. Ronnie Simpson made his debut for Queen’s Park 15 days before his 15th birthday in 1945 (a record age). Next, Ronnie Simpson completed National Service in Catterick before joining Third Lanark in 1950."
Incredible that he played at the age of 14 & 19 years before playing for Celtic. | | | |
| Laird in on 10:07 - Aug 16 with 2380 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Laird in on 09:26 - Aug 16 by Esox_Lucius |
Federico Macheda? |
Are you offering him as a decent player? |  | | |
| Laird in on 10:08 - Aug 16 with 2370 views | francisbowles |
| Laird in on 20:54 - Aug 15 by stainrods_elbow |
Fair point, that deal may have been contestable, but the player wanted the move and the club chose to cash in. But how I miss those days of watching both our reserves and juniors and seeing a fair crop of them come through and excel. I don't know how much our decline in that respect has to do with our not identfiying and holding onto younger talent, the coaches no longer doing the job they did, or players getting their heads turned at stupidly early ages (I wonder how Josh Bowler is feeling now he's turning out for Balckpool, after four years going nowhere at Everton), but there's no doubt football 'clubs' are not what they were, and we fans have played our part in rolling over and letting the game be taken away from us. |
'I wonder how Josh Bowler is feeling now he's turning out for Balckpool, after four years going nowhere at Everton'
RICHER!
and looking forward to being wealthier still with his next move. | | | |
| Laird in on 10:10 - Aug 16 with 2362 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Laird in on 10:08 - Aug 16 by francisbowles |
'I wonder how Josh Bowler is feeling now he's turning out for Balckpool, after four years going nowhere at Everton'
RICHER!
and looking forward to being wealthier still with his next move. |
Was surprised he hasn't got a move yet. He hasn't got long left on his contract there has he? | | | |
| Laird in on 11:22 - Aug 16 with 2231 views | robith |
To slightly get the thread back on track - I really like that interview with him because I think the squad needs a bit of joy and self belief back in. I hope Laird is infectious |  | | |
| Laird in on 11:41 - Aug 16 with 2152 views | EastR |
I think this will be a good signing for us. We were always going to have to bring in loan players given our budget restrictions and hopefully this will improve the team.
Given his profile as a RB/RWB I also think we’re more likely now to see a 3 at the back more often than we might have done, especially when JCS is available again. | |
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| Laird in on 11:54 - Aug 16 with 2119 views | SouthallRanger |
| Laird in on 11:22 - Aug 16 by robith |
To slightly get the thread back on track - I really like that interview with him because I think the squad needs a bit of joy and self belief back in. I hope Laird is infectious |
Expecting this thread to get back on subject after this evenings game, for good, bad or indifferent reasons.
Excited, my first match for at least 2 years. No good reason. Just having a wife who can’t cope with having kids or life in general. | | | |
| Laird in on 12:53 - Aug 16 with 2009 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Laird in on 11:54 - Aug 16 by SouthallRanger |
Expecting this thread to get back on subject after this evenings game, for good, bad or indifferent reasons.
Excited, my first match for at least 2 years. No good reason. Just having a wife who can’t cope with having kids or life in general. |
Good luck to you Sir; I'm sure that winnings from that monster bet will assist soon enough! |  |
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| Laird in on 13:10 - Aug 16 with 1964 views | DejR_vu |
| Laird in on 01:22 - Aug 16 by SydneyRs |
This trend of referring to anyone with a different opinion as "woke" really is tiresome. |
I’m not referring to people with a different opinion. I’m referring to people who are so desperate to be offended that, for example, within 60 minutes of the final whistle of our first win of the season, are on here goading people who have the ‘nerve’ to hold a different opinion to them, accusing them of being disappointed that they won’t be able to post their pre-prepared negative posts. I’m referring to the sort of poster who, after the comeback at Sunderland, do the exact same thing. The very definition of woke. That’s what’s tiresome. | |
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| Laird in on 13:15 - Aug 16 with 1953 views | PinnerPaul |
| Laird in on 16:01 - Aug 15 by Northernr |
I'm sure, but when one part of it is making a decision like extending Wallace's contract which is completely the opposite of what the other two bits are trying to achieve it's an issue. |
Fair point. | | | |
| Laird in on 13:18 - Aug 16 with 1938 views | PinnerPaul |
| Laird in on 01:16 - Aug 16 by SydneyRs |
Celtic famously won the European cup with a team of locally based players. May well have signed some from other Scottish clubs though. |
So not all home produced then!  | | | |
| Laird in on 13:19 - Aug 16 with 1926 views | PinnerPaul |
| Laird in on 07:34 - Aug 16 by Antti_Heinola |
The narrative that MW was sacked (semantics, but he wasn't sacked) because he didn't play young players is a very odd one based o a bit of hearsay leaking from the club. But let's be clear: if we had finished 6th, MW would still be our manager. He was sacked because our form fell off a cliff and had we played a full season like that we would have been relegated.
The rights and wrongs of the decision not t renew his contract can be debated, but the use of youth or not is irrelevant if you are successful: MW oversaw a truly dreadful run, and the owners lost patience. He certainly was not removed for not giving more game time to Hamaleinen or Bettache. The Board were extremely fair and gave him all the backing they could and in return he did a fine job for us, and would've continued to do so. To continue to peddle this theory that he was fired for not playing youth is a fallacy. It might have been an element, but that element only burns if you're not winning games. |
SPOT ON!!!!!!! | | | |
| Laird in on 13:27 - Aug 16 with 1868 views | SydneyRs |
| Laird in on 13:18 - Aug 16 by PinnerPaul |
So not all home produced then! |
As close as anyone will ever get to it. | | | |
| Laird in on 13:30 - Aug 16 with 1861 views | PunteR |
| Laird in on 15:22 - Aug 15 by Hunterhoop |
Quite. Beat Les over the head for giving in to Warburton, and criticise Warburton for leaving us with the squad we had at full back, but don’t do the former without the latter, whilst saying we should have kept Warburton. It is illogical.
As I’ve said many times, Warburton was given what he wanted too much, against the gut instincts of our DoF and CEO. Given how we finished it cost him his job.
I think Les, Hoos, the rest of the Board all look back and wish they’d been stronger. We might not have finished as high last year, but we might have been better placed going into this season. |
No one complained when MW came in and turned the squad over slashing the wages by an extra 30/40% or whatever it was and gave us a team competing at the top half of the table.
Unless that was all Ferdinands work. ?
Judging by the players that came in quickly they were Warburtons targets.
It went wrong at the end due to injuries and fall outs over contract extensions and of course Warburton not playing the yoof, and because we just wasn't good enough due to our players being a bit shit when it mattered. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Laird in on 13:53 - Aug 16 with 1768 views | PlanetHonneywood |
One thing is for sure, MW left things in a considerably better shape than what he inherited. From a QPR manager, that is not a given by any means.
But for that awful run from February, we'd now be talking about Dieng's winning goal against Wham! and whether the £100m we have spent in the transfer window thus far, has been wisely invested. We would not be discussing the development potential of 25 year old NH.
Alas, we ran out of puff and it all went nipples north, and we are debating the merits of MS, OK and NH.
I'd have a beer and chat with MW. Overall, I thought he did well given the challenge before. | |
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| Laird in on 14:08 - Aug 16 with 1704 views | dmm |
| Laird in on 13:10 - Aug 16 by DejR_vu |
I’m not referring to people with a different opinion. I’m referring to people who are so desperate to be offended that, for example, within 60 minutes of the final whistle of our first win of the season, are on here goading people who have the ‘nerve’ to hold a different opinion to them, accusing them of being disappointed that they won’t be able to post their pre-prepared negative posts. I’m referring to the sort of poster who, after the comeback at Sunderland, do the exact same thing. The very definition of woke. That’s what’s tiresome. |
Without wishing to turn this into a political thread, that is not even close to the definition of 'woke'. |  | | |
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