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Even if the rules as such don't allow them to be kicked out the remaining 14 teams could also form a new league - I dunno maybe call it "Division 1" they then simply leave the Prem. and ask the FA to sanction their new league. Just a thought.
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European super league on 16:18 - Apr 20 with 1749 views
I see one of the government's options to deal with the ESL in the longer term is to change the governance and ownership structures of English football, potentially including a rule like that used in Germany whereby fans’ groups are guaranteed a majority stake in clubs.
That would be hugely welcome.
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European super league on 16:25 - Apr 20 with 1708 views
European super league on 16:05 - Apr 20 by BrianMcCarthy
I'm very wary of the notion that the teams should be booted out.
We have no idea what that does to Rangers, to the 71 other League clubs, to wages, to transfer fees, to TV money, to sponsorship or to crowds.
It would be akin to lunacy if the authorities in a fit of pique expelled six huge clubs without knowing the repercussions. It may feel good in the short term, but the authorities have to be right, and they have to win.
Time to tread slowly.
Brian, the point here is that the six clubs joining the ESL have no idea, or indeed interest, in what their plans do to Rangers, the other clubs, wages etc. If they decide it suits them to do what they want, that's what they'll do without a further thought.
Right now, we all acknowledge (I think) that almost all money in pro football goes to players and agents. If there was less money to go around, there would be less money in the pockets of players and agents, and over time, less humungous debts to run up for our clubs.
If we got rid of these six clubs, I'd imagine what might come in the short term might be painful, but over time would probably be for the good of the game for the rest of us. Would it really matter if clubs became less reliant on TV money and sponsorship? Would it be a bad thing not to have football on TV all the time and instead have clubs rely on the turnstiles again for their revenue?
Let them have their Corporate Super League. Let's have our game back.
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European super league on 16:29 - Apr 20 with 1679 views
European super league on 16:25 - Apr 20 by WatfordR
Brian, the point here is that the six clubs joining the ESL have no idea, or indeed interest, in what their plans do to Rangers, the other clubs, wages etc. If they decide it suits them to do what they want, that's what they'll do without a further thought.
Right now, we all acknowledge (I think) that almost all money in pro football goes to players and agents. If there was less money to go around, there would be less money in the pockets of players and agents, and over time, less humungous debts to run up for our clubs.
If we got rid of these six clubs, I'd imagine what might come in the short term might be painful, but over time would probably be for the good of the game for the rest of us. Would it really matter if clubs became less reliant on TV money and sponsorship? Would it be a bad thing not to have football on TV all the time and instead have clubs rely on the turnstiles again for their revenue?
Let them have their Corporate Super League. Let's have our game back.
My view exactly. Perfect time for a restructure, one division of 22 2nd division with 24 and the rest split into a north and south with 24 teams in each , would mean two extra teams coming up from the national league. Would take a few years for existing mega player contracts to run down, but all new contracts limited to an agreed amount.
favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
At this stage they gave only mooted the idea. Their competition is not created thus, they have not entered it and thus cannot play in it yet and so you cannot kick them out of this season’s competitions.
But next season would be different.
As you’ve got the rule book, what does it say about entering competitions? Is it be invite or are they contractually entered?
If it’s the former you can decline to invite/accept their application and the latter, you could kick them out if they formerly enter an unsanctioned competition.
The key thing here: they are hocked to the banks - the real drivers behind this - so now is the time to turn the screws.
I believe that the dirty dozen have all signed a binding (legally) agreement for this 'ESL' shyte, and its done and dusted.
Not sure how any organisation or government can prevent it from happening now..... free trade, the right to choose etc.
The banks will take them to the cleaners if they try and pull out now, as they are fronting the dosh and no doubt have paid shed loads out to lawyers already to solidify this.
The 'wavering' is, i believe, just lip service so they dont look like 100% c nuts only 80% c nuts.
As for us all surviving? yes, we will. we will adapt, increase the prem, move every one up 12 places (are you listening Rangers?) bring in the non league guys, and start with basic rules and regs.
Id prefer the rules to be reset for football back to around the early 70's including offside, and dump VAR, make it a more 'natural' game, one we can all relate too. Match gate sharing is a good start. 2 matches a week on the box, 2 subs, limited squads of players. Proper rules for aquiring youngsters from other clubs.... and a maximum spend allowed per season on wages and ground etc. so everyone is on an even keel. oh, and set ticket prices per match, and no moving matches arbirarily for the limited 2 matches per week on telly, if affects your club.
European super league on 16:25 - Apr 20 by WatfordR
Brian, the point here is that the six clubs joining the ESL have no idea, or indeed interest, in what their plans do to Rangers, the other clubs, wages etc. If they decide it suits them to do what they want, that's what they'll do without a further thought.
Right now, we all acknowledge (I think) that almost all money in pro football goes to players and agents. If there was less money to go around, there would be less money in the pockets of players and agents, and over time, less humungous debts to run up for our clubs.
If we got rid of these six clubs, I'd imagine what might come in the short term might be painful, but over time would probably be for the good of the game for the rest of us. Would it really matter if clubs became less reliant on TV money and sponsorship? Would it be a bad thing not to have football on TV all the time and instead have clubs rely on the turnstiles again for their revenue?
Let them have their Corporate Super League. Let's have our game back.
I think we both want the same think, Watford. I'm just being more cautious about it.
For instance, you say: "I'd imagine what might come in the short term might be painful, but over time would probably be for the good of the game for the rest of us". I think that's plausible. But what if clubs don't survive the short-term?
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
I hope they pi$$ off/we disown and the Prem League falls apart, all part of the evolution. Go back to pre/post the war and none of these clubs were considered the big boys. It was Blackpool, PNE, Blackburn and so on. Where are they now. Sky are being edged out here, but will still want to show football in this country and we'll all watch. Their circus will become like the Chinese League, where late 20 somethings go for a payday for a few years. Great for Asian markets, but I think even the proper football fans in the US will see through it. I wanna feel sorry for the fans, but most of those clubs have had their noses in the trough, getting the lions share of the TV money over the past 20 years and you didn't hear any of those clubs fans complaining about that. Will the next round of rising clubs be AFC Wimbledon/Gillingham, Barnet, Enfield...many of the fans will want to go somewhere local. Bored with the Prem, even more bored of this no news, but love watching my club, so I'll be alright jack. The danger is that this doesn't happen, but for staying they'll demand an even greater share of the TV money locally and from UEFA. They get richer, meanwhile we waltz with FFP. Please, somebody write the divorce papers, quickly.
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European super league on 16:59 - Apr 20 with 1552 views
European super league on 16:38 - Apr 20 by BrianMcCarthy
I think we both want the same think, Watford. I'm just being more cautious about it.
For instance, you say: "I'd imagine what might come in the short term might be painful, but over time would probably be for the good of the game for the rest of us". I think that's plausible. But what if clubs don't survive the short-term?
Obviously there's no guarantees about anything. Even without all this stuff, there must be a number of clubs that are just hanging on after the last year.
But if the six clubs are allowed to keep their membership of the Prem, they win IMO. No other way to look at it. They will get bigger, richer and the position of Rangers and the rest of the league will get weaker.
It's a seminal moment for football, certainly in this country. I'd love to think the powers that be will get this right, but previous experience suggests they will make a mess of it. I think making a stand right here and now by kicking out the six wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen, not by a long way. The longer this goes on, the more likely the six get their own way.
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European super league on 17:05 - Apr 20 with 1519 views
European super league on 16:59 - Apr 20 by WatfordR
Obviously there's no guarantees about anything. Even without all this stuff, there must be a number of clubs that are just hanging on after the last year.
But if the six clubs are allowed to keep their membership of the Prem, they win IMO. No other way to look at it. They will get bigger, richer and the position of Rangers and the rest of the league will get weaker.
It's a seminal moment for football, certainly in this country. I'd love to think the powers that be will get this right, but previous experience suggests they will make a mess of it. I think making a stand right here and now by kicking out the six wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen, not by a long way. The longer this goes on, the more likely the six get their own way.
Good post, Watford. Plenty to think about.
As I say, I think we both want the same thing.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
It's interesting for the players at those clubs. It is potential mid-term career suicide if FIFA follow through with banning them from FIFA competitions (including international appearances) given that most of them do not have long careers at a single club.
Also, given that the players are individually incentivised by domestic league and cup, and European appearance money, if the G6 are kicked out of those competitions, those bonuses go. The clubs will offer ESL incentive payments, but it is potentially open to players to stand on their contracts and walk away under Art.14 of the FIFA Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players. This is relevant with a World Cup coming up. One of the things that money can't compensate for is international appearances.
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European super league on 17:13 - Apr 20 with 1490 views
European super league on 16:05 - Apr 20 by PinnerPaul
Can't really win can he, so silence and no action would have been met with universal acclaim and praise then?
Some things transcend political point scoring don't you think?
Not trying to score a political point, facts speak for themselves, governments of all colours have shown no interest in our game of football, other than to let the shysters, crooks and other sorts bleed our national game dry, but just before regional elections the sudden interest ..........so sorry the Tories have shown an interest !
European super league on 16:05 - Apr 20 by PinnerPaul
Can't really win can he, so silence and no action would have been met with universal acclaim and praise then?
Some things transcend political point scoring don't you think?
He’s a big fan of the free market though, which is exactly what this move is a symptom of.
It is strange that he has suspended these lifetime beliefs all of a sudden.
That said, if he puts his money where his mouth is and uses the full force of the UK government against it happening he will have the support of the whole house and a few sceptical Labour voters I’d imagine.
Let’s see! I’ll certainly be impressed.
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European super league on 17:24 - Apr 20 with 1433 views
European super league on 17:18 - Apr 20 by BazzaInTheLoft
He’s a big fan of the free market though, which is exactly what this move is a symptom of.
It is strange that he has suspended these lifetime beliefs all of a sudden.
That said, if he puts his money where his mouth is and uses the full force of the UK government against it happening he will have the support of the whole house and a few sceptical Labour voters I’d imagine.
Let’s see! I’ll certainly be impressed.
Can’t see any politician supporting the ESL, would surely be political suicide.
favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
Don't want to turn this political, but is it really a 'free market' if there is no competition, in the sense that no one else can join and regardless of 'performance' no one 'fails'?
Nothing stopping anyone opening a food shop right next to Sainsbury's for example.
In fact in Eastcote we have Sainsburys, Aldi, Tesco and at least 3 independent food stores/grocers - THAT's a 'free market' in my eyes.
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European super league on 17:35 - Apr 20 with 1387 views
European super league on 17:27 - Apr 20 by PinnerPaul
Don't want to turn this political, but is it really a 'free market' if there is no competition, in the sense that no one else can join and regardless of 'performance' no one 'fails'?
Nothing stopping anyone opening a food shop right next to Sainsbury's for example.
In fact in Eastcote we have Sainsburys, Aldi, Tesco and at least 3 independent food stores/grocers - THAT's a 'free market' in my eyes.
The free market allows a new competition (the ESL) to compete against an established one (PL&FL) without any kind of regulation that looks after community or supporter interests.
I’m about a fag paper away from being denounced by some headbanger so all I’ll say is read Reclaim the Game by QPR fan John Reid who explains it better than I and predicted this happening quite a while ago.
Reclaim the Game : The Death of the People's Game, the Great Premier League Swindle
There is no doubt there are people around the world who like this proposal. The news showed this guy in China wearing an Inter Milan shirt proclaiming about better matches with better players involved. No mismatches like Inter playing Sassuolo. Sadly there are people from other countries in my workplace who want Arsenal to be playing top teams and not Sparta Prague.
All of this gives credence to the Real Madrid chairman telling us it is what people want as us folks are legacy fans from the past. He may see it as saving football but us legacy fans will switch off and support our own teams wherever they play.
Unfortunately with so many armchair fans in the world supporting the biggest clubs it does give all the owners this belief that the majority of football fans only want to watch the biggest teams on TV many of whom have never attended a live match in their lives. I am sure those fans will give full support for the 23 years of the Superleague.
The only way football can be saved is a return to equal share of the gates and pre 1992 where clubs played a sport and were not a business.
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European super league on 17:51 - Apr 20 with 1333 views
Despite all the talk I still can't believe this will actually happen. They need 8 more teams to join in and who in their right mind is going to sign up.
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