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'And there came from the same country a prophet, whose name was Jeremy. His beard was as the pelt of beasts, and his raiments were not of the finest. And he cried aloud in the wilderness and said, Behold, I bring you hope.
And suddenly there was with him a host of young people. And he said unto them, Ye shall study and grow wise in all things, and I shall not ask ye for gold. And the sick shall be made well, and they also will heal freely. And he promised unto them all manner of goodly things.
And the young people said unto him, How shall these things be rendered, seeing that thou hast no money in thy purse?'
Do you seriously think had Sinn Féin taken up their seats Corbyn would not have tried to do a deal
But Sinn Fein are not taking up their seats, no intention of doing so,so it's just another hypothetical question to deflect for the question at hand. How do feel about a bigoted religious group pulling the strings at the Brexit negotiations. What will May promise them to hang onto her job ?
But Sinn Fein are not taking up their seats, no intention of doing so,so it's just another hypothetical question to deflect for the question at hand. How do feel about a bigoted religious group pulling the strings at the Brexit negotiations. What will May promise them to hang onto her job ?
All I am saying is that one is just as bad as the other in making alliances to stay in or get into power.
Pre election Right: Corbyn talks to terroist Left: No it is Sinn Fein who are a democratically elected party
Post election Left: May talks to terroists Right: No is is the DUP who are a democratically elected party
A thing that strikes me: 25 years Kinnock went to Sheffield Arena and worked the crowd - "we're alright!" and got panned for it.
Ol' Jezza goes to Tranmere Rovers and has a crowd singing "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" and its a sign of a brilliant campaign.
OK, a couple of differences: Sheffield was a party rally of selected workers, Tranmere was just ordinary supporters; Kinnock was loving it whereas Corbyn looked a bit surprised at first, then modestly pleased.
But the big thing is that most people only knew about Sheffield because of a clip in the news (out of context - not necessarily due to bias, just time constraints) and the papers the next day writing it up as "arrogant victory rally." The Tranmere thing was on youtube, you could see the thing for yourself.
All I am saying is that one is just as bad as the other in making alliances to stay in or get into power.
Pre election Right: Corbyn talks to terroist Left: No it is Sinn Fein who are a democratically elected party
Post election Left: May talks to terroists Right: No is is the DUP who are a democratically elected party
So that makes it alright ? A hypothetical alliance between Labour and Sinn Fein,except it's not ever going to happen because SF won't take their seats justifies bringing in the DUP. May will give them anything they ask for because she can't survive without them.
So that makes it alright ? A hypothetical alliance between Labour and Sinn Fein,except it's not ever going to happen because SF won't take their seats justifies bringing in the DUP. May will give them anything they ask for because she can't survive without them.
Did I once say it was right. The problem is the right look for a fight with th left and the left look for a fight with the right. So your base position is to attack
"All I am saying is that one is just as bad as the other in making alliances to stay in or get into power."
Even Corbyn's harshest critics haven't claimed he was meeting Sinn Fein as a way of "staying in or getting into power." It's only Theresa May that's doing that with the DUP.
Whatever anyone thinks of the people or groups involved, a backbench MP having a meeting with one group is not the same situation as a Prime Minister bringing another group into government to pass legislation and keep her in power.
"All I am saying is that one is just as bad as the other in making alliances to stay in or get into power."
Even Corbyn's harshest critics haven't claimed he was meeting Sinn Fein as a way of "staying in or getting into power." It's only Theresa May that's doing that with the DUP.
Whatever anyone thinks of the people or groups involved, a backbench MP having a meeting with one group is not the same situation as a Prime Minister bringing another group into government to pass legislation and keep her in power.
So Corbyn would never do a deal to get in power. OK I believe you. I don't understand your point about him being a back bench MP as far as I am aware he is the leader of the Labour party
So Corbyn would never do a deal to get in power. OK I believe you. I don't understand your point about him being a back bench MP as far as I am aware he is the leader of the Labour party
[Post edited 12 Jun 2017 20:54]
Again, we're going in circles because you won't or can't address the actual issue.
The situation with May and the DUP is real, not hypothetical, and is happening now - a British Prime Minister staying in power only with the support of a party with paramilitary connections.
If the only opinion you can offer on that is to say that in a hypothetical situation a person who is not the British Prime Minister would do the same, it is, as you say, a pointless conversation. And my mistake for hoping it could be anything else.
PS I just saw your edited reply. OK - Corbyn met Sinn Fein when he was a backbench MP. Theresa May is meeting with the DUP as Prime Minister. Now.
I'm trying to be less aggro in these conversations, but my God, you make my brain hurt.
Again, we're going in circles because you won't or can't address the actual issue.
The situation with May and the DUP is real, not hypothetical, and is happening now - a British Prime Minister staying in power only with the support of a party with paramilitary connections.
If the only opinion you can offer on that is to say that in a hypothetical situation a person who is not the British Prime Minister would do the same, it is, as you say, a pointless conversation. And my mistake for hoping it could be anything else.
PS I just saw your edited reply. OK - Corbyn met Sinn Fein when he was a backbench MP. Theresa May is meeting with the DUP as Prime Minister. Now.
I'm trying to be less aggro in these conversations, but my God, you make my brain hurt.
Let's leave it here.
[Post edited 12 Jun 2017 20:58]
You see personal attacks you really cannot help it You misunderstood my original post I believe you realised it but cannot bring yourself to admit it but as you say we'll leave it there unless you want the last word
So Corbyn would never do a deal to get in power. OK I believe you. I don't understand your point about him being a back bench MP as far as I am aware he is the leader of the Labour party
[Post edited 12 Jun 2017 20:54]
But at the time of discussing with Sinn Fein was over 20 years when he was a back bench MP with a reputation for campaigning on causes of perceived injustice. That was being thrown out more than 20 years later, when nothing has happened in the intervening period during the election campaign or since Corbyn became labour party leader to suggest he we was in discussions with them on anything at all. It was a thing that was solely born out of the Tory election campaign attempts to deflect from what was proving to be a mess of a campaign.
The irony is of course that having thrown out the line about aligning with supposed Irish extremists, the PM is now actually having to do just that.
Pretty simple really, one was an attempted smear campaign that had little basis in fact, the other is an actual thing that is happening now in reality.
You see personal attacks you really cannot help it You misunderstood my original post I believe you realised it but cannot bring yourself to admit it but as you say we'll leave it there unless you want the last word
Fine, I'm sure it's my fault. And I'm sure I misunderstood your original post too.
Happy to concede you're a much more perceptive bloke than me, and I've been taught a lesson.
But at the time of discussing with Sinn Fein was over 20 years when he was a back bench MP with a reputation for campaigning on causes of perceived injustice. That was being thrown out more than 20 years later, when nothing has happened in the intervening period during the election campaign or since Corbyn became labour party leader to suggest he we was in discussions with them on anything at all. It was a thing that was solely born out of the Tory election campaign attempts to deflect from what was proving to be a mess of a campaign.
The irony is of course that having thrown out the line about aligning with supposed Irish extremists, the PM is now actually having to do just that.
Pretty simple really, one was an attempted smear campaign that had little basis in fact, the other is an actual thing that is happening now in reality.
I never once said Corbyn as leader of the Labour Party spoke to Sinn Fein where did that come from. All I said is that all politicians are capable of talking to whoever if it means keeping or getting into power and I believe given the opportunity after this election and not 20 years ago Corbyn would have spoken to whoever could have got him into power. You all seem to be saying Corbyn is not like that so I am happy to accept it
I never once said Corbyn as leader of the Labour Party spoke to Sinn Fein where did that come from. All I said is that all politicians are capable of talking to whoever if it means keeping or getting into power and I believe given the opportunity after this election and not 20 years ago Corbyn would have spoken to whoever could have got him into power. You all seem to be saying Corbyn is not like that so I am happy to accept it
[Post edited 12 Jun 2017 21:26]
"given the opportunity after this election and not 20 years ago Corbyn would have spoken to whoever could have got him into power."
Hypothetical situation for a start, but why because he spoke to them 20 years ago, in an attempt to broker peace, would he be likely to speak to them again to gain power?
Part of the Tory campaign 2 years ago they were convinced Labour would talk to SNP if they needed to secure a majority, they used it to scare undecided voters to go tory, now because it suits the torys it's Sinn Fein that Labour would do a deal with because they've aligned themselves with a party that's worse than the SNP so they need people to believe Labour would be just as bad.
"given the opportunity after this election and not 20 years ago Corbyn would have spoken to whoever could have got him into power."
Hypothetical situation for a start, but why because he spoke to them 20 years ago, in an attempt to broker peace, would he be likely to speak to them again to gain power?
Part of the Tory campaign 2 years ago they were convinced Labour would talk to SNP if they needed to secure a majority, they used it to scare undecided voters to go tory, now because it suits the torys it's Sinn Fein that Labour would do a deal with because they've aligned themselves with a party that's worse than the SNP so they need people to believe Labour would be just as bad.
P.S Sorry for jumping straight in to the debate.
So Labour will now not talk with the SNP. Corbyn did say he wanted to form a government so who with
So Labour will now not talk with the SNP. Corbyn did say he wanted to form a government so who with
Where did I say they wouldn't talk to the SNP?
I'm saying that the tory spin machine realise that coming out and saying that Labour would do a deal with the SNP for power (like they did 2 years ago) isn't as unpopular as the DUP, so now they are trying to link Labour with Sinn Fein as it's perceived as worse than the SNP and helps them to justify their deal with the DUP. In reality if Labour had the same number of seats as the cons, they would be talking to SNP or Lib Dems and wouldn't go anywhere near Sinn Fein. But don't let that get in the way of your hypothetical situation to justify your partys decision.
The parliamentary maths goes Torres 318 + Northern Irish fruit cakes 10 = 328 Labour + others, excl Sinn Fein = 317
Providing May can strike a deal with the DUP she gets all her non contentious plans through. The fun and games is likely to come over the Irish border and how it is dealt with in the negotiations. If they ever get started.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky
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