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OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't 22:15 - Mar 28 with 22931 views

There was a meeting a few days ago I learnt this evening. OOC is looking highly unlikely so the club have requested to look at the land opposite Diageo..pizza hut, cinema, where Zenith was etc and also in Greenford (Glaxo etc)

Warren Farm looks shaky but the council is still hopeful of something.

"Sauce" Ealing councillors, Ealing MPs, Ealing prospective MPs and the Labour candidate for Mayor of London.

Personally be fine with the Park Royal site..less of sh*t hole than OOC and well, we did use to play there.

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 20:12 - Mar 29 with 3132 views

terryb

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 19:48 - Mar 29 by BasingstokeR
Is there no land on OOC that isn't CG Owner's land then? I was under the impression that CG Owner's bit was less than 25% of the overall plot.

But do not Tune etc. own zero of the land?

Hell of a difference in the cost of purchasing for TF & co. than for Car Giant!

Surely, what it comes down to is whether a stadium is a necessity for the regeneration? If it ain't, why add that to the cost of development?

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 20:46 - Mar 29 with 3075 views

YorkRanger

Maybe it's just me, but I find it hard to get excited about OOC. There is so much wrong at the club and hopefully the road to a better future commences in the Summer. Almost certainly that will be in the Championship and most likely for a couple of seasons at least. The need for a 40,000 stadium and global brand etc seems as far away as ever. Besides which no one really knows where the OOC discussions have got to. My biggest fear is it will become a white elephant a la the Ricoh and Riverside.

Sorry .....

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 21:44 - Mar 29 with 3016 views

BasingstokeR

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 20:12 - Mar 29 by terryb
But do not Tune etc. own zero of the land? Hell of a difference in the cost of purchasing for TF & co. than for Car Giant! Surely, what it comes down to is whether a stadium is a necessity for the regeneration? If it ain't, why add that to the cost of development?

The Official site original story said this...

"With their partners, Stadium Capital Developments, QPR has entered into exclusivity land arrangements with Network Rail and other landowners who control major parts of Old Oak."

I assume there are other landowners in the overall plot bar Geoffrey Warren's who owns CG bit

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 07:47 - Mar 30 with 2911 views

SpiritofGregory

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 20:12 - Mar 29 by terryb
But do not Tune etc. own zero of the land? Hell of a difference in the cost of purchasing for TF & co. than for Car Giant! Surely, what it comes down to is whether a stadium is a necessity for the regeneration? If it ain't, why add that to the cost of development?

I asked one of the guys at the consultation in Kensal Green if the club owned any land and he said that the club didn't, there were only agreements in place with landowners which did not include Car Giant. The club were trying to speak to Car Giant.

Car Giant by that time were no longer interested in dealing with QPR.

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 08:12 - Mar 30 with 2904 views

essextaxiboy

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 10:32 - Mar 29 by essextaxiboy
I was told this including the Greenford option at the Everton game .

Just like to say tthat I was told this midway through a general rant by a young fella who sits just along from me . I have no connection with the red sofa dwelling arse that is Scott Jones .

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 08:32 - Mar 30 with 2873 views

SpiritofGregory

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 08:12 - Mar 30 by essextaxiboy
Just like to say tthat I was told this midway through a general rant by a young fella who sits just along from me . I have no connection with the red sofa dwelling arse that is Scott Jones .

The Air Asia Stadium - Greenford.

All our dreams come true.

[Post edited 30 Mar 2015 8:37]

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 08:47 - Mar 30 with 2867 views

connell10

cargiant aint gonna sell to rangers thats a fact!

	AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
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OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 09:42 - Mar 30 with 2822 views

ranger08

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 08:47 - Mar 30 by connell10
cargiant aint gonna sell to rangers thats a fact!

If OOC won't happen then Fernandes and Co won't be able to build a stadium, OOC isn't about QPR or a Stadium its about houses. You're kidding yourselves if you think otherwise.

The "stadium led regeneration" spin and using us (Fans) as public support is their (Fernandes & Co's) ploy to get a shed load of land to build houses which will pay for a stadium/clear their debt and make their pockets ever fatter.

I personally don't like the fact Fernandes has used our club and I think he will leave if we are relegated.

Reasons:
OOC is looking VERY unlikely
Can't keep writing off debt
FFP Fine
No premiership money or guarantee we'll get promoted.

The problem will be what state the club will be in when he leaves...

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 09:53 - Mar 30 with 2813 views

daveB

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 09:42 - Mar 30 by ranger08

So if Old Oak comes off then QPR would be debt free with a new stadium and the owners would make money as well?
The bastards, string them up

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 09:57 - Mar 30 with 2807 views

simmo

That's all we need, this eejit back with his ITK bollocks. Give the chodes like SOG more crap to comment on...

I'm out.

ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 10:25 - Mar 30 with 2774 views

californiahoop

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 09:53 - Mar 30 by daveB
So if Old Oak comes off then QPR would be debt free with a new stadium and the owners would make money as well? The bastards, string them up

Lol, I thougt TF and the crew where buying up land in OOC over the last few years?

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 11:01 - Mar 30 with 2741 views

Juzzie

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 07:47 - Mar 30 by SpiritofGregory
I asked one of the guys at the consultation in Kensal Green if the club owned any land and he said that the club didn't, there were only agreements in place with landowners which did not include Car Giant. The club were trying to speak to Car Giant. Car Giant by that time were no longer interested in dealing with QPR.

As I said earlier, the stadium is therefore built elsewhere on the site, on non CG land, so let others deal with CG. If CG want to play hardball 'cos they know there's a humungous amount of money to be made as the land is needed for housing, then fair play to them.

The positioning at the moment is clearly situated as close to Willesden Junction as possible (is that on CG land? I'm not sure it is) but if it has to be be moved, for example, nearer to Old Oak Lane that is mid left, then what's the problem? A few extra minutes walk isn't a problem as it's no further away than currently tube stations from Loftus Road.

[Post edited 30 Mar 2015 11:19]

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 11:15 - Mar 30 with 2708 views

BrianMcCarthy

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 10:25 - Mar 30 by californiahoop
Lol, I thougt TF and the crew where buying up land in OOC over the last few years?

They have only claimed to be entering onto agreements ie agreeing to purchase subject to conditions - in this case, we assume, subject to planning permission being given for their scheme.

Which is all sensible, by my reckoning at least. Why pay cash, only to find out later that you've no scheme and a load of land you don't want?

	"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
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OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 11:24 - Mar 30 with 2686 views

TheBlob

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 11:15 - Mar 30 by BrianMcCarthy
They have only claimed to be entering onto agreements ie agreeing to purchase subject to conditions - in this case, we assume, subject to planning permission being given for their scheme. Which is all sensible, by my reckoning at least. Why pay cash, only to find out later that you've no scheme and a load of land you don't want?

I don't think there's such a thing as being stuck with land you don't want in that area.Whatever happens you'd get a tidy profit on it in very short order.

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OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 11:34 - Mar 30 with 2659 views

Juzzie

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 11:24 - Mar 30 by TheBlob
I don't think there's such a thing as being stuck with land you don't want in that area.Whatever happens you'd get a tidy profit on it in very short order.

Unless your name is Chris Wright! (the school end debacle)

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 13:00 - Mar 30 with 2373 views

connell10

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 11:01 - Mar 30 by Juzzie

[Post edited 30 Mar 2015 11:19]

Im hearing that rangers have tried to use bully boy tactics on cargaint and have come unstuck big time! as i said there is no way cargiant will sell their land to rangers , they have their own vision for the future and i dont blame the to be honest!

	AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
Poll:	best number 10 ever?

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 13:03 - Mar 30 with 2361 views

daveB

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 13:00 - Mar 30 by connell10
Im hearing that rangers have tried to use bully boy tactics on cargaint and have come unstuck big time! as i said there is no way cargiant will sell their land to rangers , they have their own vision for the future and i dont blame the to be honest!

The owners of the land Cargiant is on originally said that they were going to sell but have now changed their minds when seeing how much can be made and want to develop. QPR approached them thinking they were looking for the best price to sell and went it with low offers to try and bully them out and it didn't work.

I'm still not sure why we don't just build the stadium in a different part of the development, I'm guessing it's due to the timescales invovled

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 13:11 - Mar 30 with 2340 views

Juzzie

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 13:00 - Mar 30 by connell10
Im hearing that rangers have tried to use bully boy tactics on cargaint and have come unstuck big time! as i said there is no way cargiant will sell their land to rangers , they have their own vision for the future and i dont blame the to be honest!

I don't blame them either. I just think a stadium can be built on that site without us needing to deal with Car Giant. The stadium can fit elsewher, just needs the map re-jigging.

If I was in CG's position, I'd do the same. Just because the owner is a QPR fan doesn't mean he has to hand the land over cheap. It that did happen I'd stipulate something that protects the club (i.e. the club owns the ground or anything else that protects QPR, not any owners now or in the future) and if the owners didn't agree, then no deal. Who knows, maybe that's happened?

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 13:37 - Mar 30 with 2281 views

SpiritofGregory

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 11:01 - Mar 30 by Juzzie

[Post edited 30 Mar 2015 11:19]

Don't know why they don't build it on another part of the site.

Car Giant accounts for 20% of the land required for the stadium. You can't bully an owner of a well respected business who provides lots of employment for local residents and beyond.

I understand that the club have agreements with a couple of other land owners and the final piece of the puzzle are CG. It could be that the other parts of the site have all kinds of planning stipulations or that there are more individual landlords/owners to deal with. Who knows...

We all know Car Giant it's a well run business whose owner is also a property developer, he's a shrewd businessman, he either wants top dollar for his land or a piece of the profits from the New Queens Park development and who can blame him.

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 13:38 - Mar 30 with 2286 views

Jamie

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 13:03 - Mar 30 by daveB

You would have to assume a stadium elsewhere on the plot is completely unfeasible or else the board wouldnt have engaged the catastrophically poor PR campaign to bully CarGiant into selling them the land that they have.

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 13:49 - Mar 30 with 2282 views

Northernr

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 13:03 - Mar 30 by daveB

I think some of the recent Car Giant rhetoric has been a bit petty and not reflected well on them. Saying things like "we will never deal with QPR, we will not talk to them" makes it look personal. What if QPR offer the best deal? But overall it's QPR that have made a mess of this.

They rubbed Car Giant up the wrong way sending Anthony Spencer in there to do their bidding. Spencer was involved in the Arsenal Emirates Stadium development, although that was mostly railway land. His attitude with Car Giant from the start was this will happen with you or it will happen without you but it will happen, and he's batted them over the head with how he got the arsenal thing off the ground at every opportunity.

Spencer has told them things like "we've got you landlocked" when in reality all QPR have is agreements with the land owners around Car Giant, and these agreements are little more than 'first look' arrangements. One of the neighbouring properties is a waste disposal unit which, by law, Hammersmith and Fulham Council have to have within the borough, so even if they did agree to sell to QPR we'd have to find an alternative site, within HandF (third smallest borough in the country and one of the most densely populated) for an industrial waste disposal unit - good luck getting that through planning, residents not exactly queuing up to live next door to one of those.

So we rubbed them up the wrong way to start with and I think they've been minded to ignore us since then. It's what happens when you have people like Spencer doing your bidding for you and people like Mark Donnelly and Phil Beard in control. Had Fernandes gone in there himself from the start and spoken to them I think there'd have been a different outcome. We've treated them as an inconvenience to be dealt with, rather than a kingmaker and we've used idle threats from the get go.

I think they've underestimated Car Giant as little more than a used car lot, and underestimated just how much of the land round there Car Giant owns. As for finding somewhere else on the site, I don't see how you can - Car Giant owns more than 50 acres of it, not just the car giant bit., They own all the units to the north and south of Hythe Road. It owns the Gateway Industrial Estate to the west and the units north and south of Salter St.It also owns several of the office blocks west of Scrubbs Lane. Go any further south than this and all you've got is the canal and the Great Western Mainline. Any further north and you've the West Coast mainline. I just don't see where else you could do it there without Car Giant. Get the train in from Ealing Broadway and look to the left, see how closely pressed up the Cargiant Buildings are pressed up to the lines.

They've responded to this by holding these 'consultation' events, which again are likely to annoy the land owners, and seem to do little more than collect statements from QPR fans saying we'd quite like a new stadium. Those events seem a bit weird and desperate to me.

Overall, made a bit of a pig's ear of it.

This post has been edited by an administrator

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 14:09 - Mar 30 with 2239 views

baz_qpr

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 13:38 - Mar 30 by Jamie
You would have to assume a stadium elsewhere on the plot is completely unfeasible or else the board wouldnt have engaged the catastrophically poor PR campaign to bully CarGiant into selling them the land that they have.

What is this bullying campaign you speak off?

Car Giant fought tooth and nail against the whole development, until it was passed as inevitable. They asked QPR to buy the land directly off them and find them a new home (which no one was going to do until it was passed) as soon as it was passed they pulled up the drawbridge and decided to make their own plans.

Anyone was invited to put forward plans (they did not have to be the land owner) QPR was one of those.

This is not a political exercise in making Car Giant more rich its a massive urban regen project.

Dont really see what the club has done wrong, they have followed the rules of the process, put forward their plans got land agreements with all the other major land owner apart from CG. They have campaigned as part of the consultation, nothing here is out of the ordinary. CG dont have the given right to do the development because they own part of the decreed land.

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 16:10 - Mar 30 with 2154 views

BasingstokeR

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 13:49 - Mar 30 by Northernr

Are the bits about the "threats" QPR's team have made and "how much CG own" from press stories somewhere or somewhere else like from word of mouth?

The press seem to have been pretty consistent with this kind of statment: "The 47 acres owned by Warren make him the largest single land owner of the 380 acre Old Oak Common site."

If your saying Geoff Warren owns more than 47-50+ of the 380 acres; and the club are saying they've "secured strategic land holdings in excess of 100 acres", how many acres do you need for a Stadium? Googling seems to suggest the Emirates site is 17acres (and that has a lot of space around the outside from my one visit there).

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 16:14 - Mar 30 with 2145 views

daveB

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 13:38 - Mar 30 by Jamie
You would have to assume a stadium elsewhere on the plot is completely unfeasible or else the board wouldnt have engaged the catastrophically poor PR campaign to bully CarGiant into selling them the land that they have.

I think the area they can build on is one of the last bits to be developed so will be in 10/15 years time rather than 5 so not overly appealing to Fernandes and co.

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 16:22 - Mar 30 with 2131 views

Northernr

OOC is OFF but a new stadium isn't on 16:10 - Mar 30 by BasingstokeR

To be fair 'threats' was a poor choice of words. But Spencer did start off by telling Car Giant he had them "landlocked" i.e. you have to deal with us, you don't have a choice.

50 acres is probably about right. I know what they own, as I've described above, but not the exact acreage of it.

If it was a 380 acre normal brownfield site then, simply, build it somewhere else on the site. It's not a normal site. Railway lines (not little ones, mainlines) would need re-routing, the Canal would need re-routing, lots of the rest of it is contiminated land, the issue with the waste disposal site needing another site as I've described above. It's a hugely complex site. Bits of it will be developed long after the rest of it. Bits of it depend on HS2 getting the go ahead and starting. If it was a s simple as "Car Giant won't deal with us, so we'll build it on another bit of the site" do you think they might have tried that already?

And it's neither press stories nor word of mouth. Tony Mendes invited LFW (and QPR First and a lot of the local journos) down a few months ago as part of his PR push. I spoke to him for more than an hour, toured round the site, heard what he had to say. I decided not to publish an article, and told him I'd be unlikely to publish anything when we first sat down, because it's a QPR site at the end of the day so when it comes down to it LFW's wants the best for the club.

I subsequently, along with LSA, QPR 1st, all the other sites and podcasts etc, went and met Mark Donnelly and heard what the club had to say about it all and what their position was.

And I've formed my view from those meetings and walking round the site. Dangerous to rely on press reports and word of mouth IMO.

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