| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN 10:05 - Oct 15 with 6266 views | johnlangy |
I was thinking again this morning about how important this will be for the future of the Club.
We regularly talk about how far the Swans catchment extends, especially to the West. The ONLY other Club who could entice new supporters from West Wales away from the Swans is Cardiff (i'm not including Man U glory chasers here) so how crucial is it that we do everything we can to ensure new supporters from West Wales choose the Swans ?
In my opinion the answer is absolutely crucial. While we are in the PL is the perfect time for it especially so now Cardiff are not there. Any youngster from West Wales who develops an interest in Football will see the Swans (not Cardiff) week in/week out on Sky or MOTD and, whenever one of them says 'Dad, will you take me to see the Swans' the Liberty needs sufficient capacity to accommodate them.
We all know the PL is the most popular Football League in the World and it's a guarantee that virtually every day some youngster is asking their Dad/Mum the above question. But, at the moment the answer will be 'sorry I can't get tickets'.
I know the Club needs to be careful about finances but the only area where we have not advanced in the last four years is Stadium capacity. Whenever we do it it'll be a gamble. We could be relegated the very year that we expand. But that argument could apply forever. If the gamble comes off and those youngsters get to see the Swans and become lifelong supporters the benefits to the future of the Club would outstrip the initial cost a hundredfold.
John |  | | |  |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 09:55 - Oct 16 with 1362 views | tomdickharry |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 09:23 - Oct 16 by Al_Bundy |
Doubt very much this project would be paid for in 4 or 5 years. The ticketing revenue would not all be gross profit. The club would have to maintain that section , upgrade their public liability insurance and pay for utility and energy costs not to mention stewarding each match. This also would be based on every match in the new section being a sell out.
It does need to be done , phase one 5k at a bare minimum. The further upgrades could be considered in the future. Then comes the debate on how much we chuck at a stadium which isn't ours. |
Good points and in addition there wouldn't be 5K seats for home fans an element would be for away fans as per PL rules re ground capacity.
I am wondering what the latest is with the travel issue,the Hafod by pass was due to commence this summer don't know whether it has or not and this proposed new road could be the key to the commencement of the expansion.I do not think there is a cat in hell's chance of the expansion starting in January if the new road project is still i the pending tray. | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 11:11 - Oct 16 with 1314 views | icecoldjack |
Lots of great comments above.
It needs to be done ASAP !
5,000 would be perfect and affordable. In terms of the expansion it's starting to become a bit of a joke, we were told after season one that it would get started but nothing happened.
Season 2 nothing
Season 3 nothing
Season 4 nothing
Not sure how many years we need to be a premier league club before expansion starts but we have as much chance of being relegated in season 4/5/6 As we did in season 1/2/3 meaning, there will never be a perfect time!
The logic doesn't quite add up in that respect. The only conclusion I draw is that deep down the club are happy to continue as they are, maybe safe standing is an issue,maybe the fact games may be shown on a pay per view basis is another, all would mean bit of a re think if they happened but the bottom line is that we are not fulfilling our massive potential!
I get a ticket for nearly all the games when I'm home but that's through friends network, so many people have wanted to travel over with me to watch games but almost impossible to get a number of seats together.
It's not the price of a ticket either. People that come to a game will spend at the club shop and the bars etc, and as rightly pointed out we need to welcome in the new supporters and the young kids to grow the hard core .
It just needs to be done plain and simple, even if we went down this season we still have 3 major parachute payments to go with us, throw in the sale of players like siggy,bony,shelvey,Ki ( let's be honest most would want to leave if we got relegated) and the finance surely can't be an issue .
All a bit mad why it isn't done already tbh. |  | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 22:24 - Oct 16 with 1207 views | cockett_jack |
On the face of it, to say we completed the ground with an average attendance of 7k back in 2005 and in ten years with our astronomical rise to the Premiership we haven't expanded it all looks so incredibly unambitious. |  | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 23:50 - Oct 16 with 1162 views | dameedna |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 11:11 - Oct 16 by icecoldjack |
Lots of great comments above.
It needs to be done ASAP !
5,000 would be perfect and affordable. In terms of the expansion it's starting to become a bit of a joke, we were told after season one that it would get started but nothing happened.
Season 2 nothing
Season 3 nothing
Season 4 nothing
Not sure how many years we need to be a premier league club before expansion starts but we have as much chance of being relegated in season 4/5/6 As we did in season 1/2/3 meaning, there will never be a perfect time!
The logic doesn't quite add up in that respect. The only conclusion I draw is that deep down the club are happy to continue as they are, maybe safe standing is an issue,maybe the fact games may be shown on a pay per view basis is another, all would mean bit of a re think if they happened but the bottom line is that we are not fulfilling our massive potential!
I get a ticket for nearly all the games when I'm home but that's through friends network, so many people have wanted to travel over with me to watch games but almost impossible to get a number of seats together.
It's not the price of a ticket either. People that come to a game will spend at the club shop and the bars etc, and as rightly pointed out we need to welcome in the new supporters and the young kids to grow the hard core .
It just needs to be done plain and simple, even if we went down this season we still have 3 major parachute payments to go with us, throw in the sale of players like siggy,bony,shelvey,Ki ( let's be honest most would want to leave if we got relegated) and the finance surely can't be an issue .
All a bit mad why it isn't done already tbh. |
Hang on
I did my sums on +10,000 for 15M quid
With in built assumptions for 80% attendance, 20% tax, maintenance and debt provisions at 10% i
Is it only +5,000 for 15M quid?
I expect the payback will be more like 10 to 11 years
In 5 years it would be reasonable to expect relegation
After 5 years relegated to the Championship
So the 4m pa revenue after 5 years may never happen as attendance would drop below 20k
In the lower league, we would get 10 - 15 000 imo and no Skye revenue |  | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 23:57 - Oct 16 with 1156 views | dameedna |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 09:04 - Oct 16 by johnlangy |
The designs are there for all to see on the Council website. Go into Planning, select Planning Application Search and type Liberty Stadium into the search field. |
Thanks for that, having a look | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 05:43 - Oct 17 with 1132 views | icecoldjack |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 23:50 - Oct 16 by dameedna |
Hang on
I did my sums on +10,000 for 15M quid
With in built assumptions for 80% attendance, 20% tax, maintenance and debt provisions at 10% i
Is it only +5,000 for 15M quid?
I expect the payback will be more like 10 to 11 years
In 5 years it would be reasonable to expect relegation
After 5 years relegated to the Championship
So the 4m pa revenue after 5 years may never happen as attendance would drop below 20k
In the lower league, we would get 10 - 15 000 imo and no Skye revenue |
Hang on, you did't factor in the sale of players , which if relegated would wipe out the remaining costs .
3 yrs parachute payments, £15m profit last year, the sale of players if relegated and extra match day revenue from the extension.
Surely this is something we could afford ? | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 07:06 - Oct 17 with 1116 views | dameedna |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 05:43 - Oct 17 by icecoldjack |
Hang on, you did't factor in the sale of players , which if relegated would wipe out the remaining costs .
3 yrs parachute payments, £15m profit last year, the sale of players if relegated and extra match day revenue from the extension.
Surely this is something we could afford ? |
I looked at the stadium as a stand alone, not the players or the staff, facilities etc
$15M seems a good deal at present even if only for 5,000+ attendance
I had a look at the designs and it looks like more than +5,000 in with that expansion at a guess
There are no figures for the + capacity
In answer to your question I agree and most clubs would already have done it
What I like about our club is we are nothing like most clubs
Huw is hopefully milking every penny out of the cost and capacity equation before committing
Others would have appointed a D+B Contractor on cost + before finishing detailed design | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 08:23 - Oct 17 with 1098 views | jackb |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 12:34 - Oct 15 by JBT95 |
If you want tickets bad enough.. you'll get them. Same with everything. |
Probably true, but this is about those who would start a casual supporter with a spontaneous decision and a walk up purchase and could end up with them being a supporter for life |  | | |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 08:54 - Oct 17 with 1077 views | icecoldjack |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 07:06 - Oct 17 by dameedna |
I looked at the stadium as a stand alone, not the players or the staff, facilities etc
$15M seems a good deal at present even if only for 5,000+ attendance
I had a look at the designs and it looks like more than +5,000 in with that expansion at a guess
There are no figures for the + capacity
In answer to your question I agree and most clubs would already have done it
What I like about our club is we are nothing like most clubs
Huw is hopefully milking every penny out of the cost and capacity equation before committing
Others would have appointed a D+B Contractor on cost + before finishing detailed design |
Good points.
I believe any business looking at future expansion would look at all costs and assets as one, with a back up plan if certain existing revenue streams dried up, I think we have more than enough on paper and in the bank to cover any eventuality
Get it done and grow the club I say, standing still isn't good for any business especially when there is plenty of potential growth within that business, which IMO there is .
 | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 09:08 - Oct 17 with 1070 views | JackSomething |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 22:24 - Oct 16 by cockett_jack |
On the face of it, to say we completed the ground with an average attendance of 7k back in 2005 and in ten years with our astronomical rise to the Premiership we haven't expanded it all looks so incredibly unambitious. |
It does, but then that's a very simplistic view of the situation, as it ignores all the other factors like the finance, planning, logistics in terms of the building work and the effects of 5k more fans in the area on match day, etc... |  |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 09:14 - Oct 17 with 1067 views | johnlangy |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 23:50 - Oct 16 by dameedna |
Hang on
I did my sums on +10,000 for 15M quid
With in built assumptions for 80% attendance, 20% tax, maintenance and debt provisions at 10% i
Is it only +5,000 for 15M quid?
I expect the payback will be more like 10 to 11 years
In 5 years it would be reasonable to expect relegation
After 5 years relegated to the Championship
So the 4m pa revenue after 5 years may never happen as attendance would drop below 20k
In the lower league, we would get 10 - 15 000 imo and no Skye revenue |
It's £15 m for 10,000 (as quoted by HJ at a fans forum).
Debt provision and payback assumes a debt. Landore and Fairwood have/are being developed using money the Club already has. As far as i'm aware the same approach is being taken with the extension. I don't know how much is in the bank but maybe the debenture idea will be used to raise more.
We all know the board do not allow the Club to get into debt. The same will apply with extending the Stadium | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 09:46 - Oct 17 with 1051 views | icecoldjack |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 09:08 - Oct 17 by JackSomething |
It does, but then that's a very simplistic view of the situation, as it ignores all the other factors like the finance, planning, logistics in terms of the building work and the effects of 5k more fans in the area on match day, etc... |
Which falls down a little bit when there are rock concerts taking place with 25,000 plus in the summer.
Logistics are suddenly fine then . | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 10:09 - Oct 17 with 1034 views | JackSomething |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 09:46 - Oct 17 by icecoldjack |
Which falls down a little bit when there are rock concerts taking place with 25,000 plus in the summer.
Logistics are suddenly fine then . |
Fair point, but that's not the only aspect of logistics I meant.
Even in that example, that's one event every two years on average, as opposed to home football matches 20+ times every year. Also, I would think the running of a concert is very different to the running of a football match in terms of policing and so on. | |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 10:26 - Oct 17 with 1015 views | tomdickharry |
It would be good PR if the club issued a press statement from time to time just to keep fans up to date with current developments,the worst type of PR is speculative by third parties and really and that's what we are doing on this thread. As I see it (a)we will not be purchasing the Liberty and (b) it is highly unlikely that the builders will be starting in January. | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 10:39 - Oct 17 with 999 views | icecoldjack |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 10:09 - Oct 17 by JackSomething |
Fair point, but that's not the only aspect of logistics I meant.
Even in that example, that's one event every two years on average, as opposed to home football matches 20+ times every year. Also, I would think the running of a concert is very different to the running of a football match in terms of policing and so on. |
Agree.
But teams like Liverpool and everton with their old stadia amongst houses seem to manage logistical problems, it may be a problem once every 2 weeks for us but overall I don't see That being the main sticking point.
It was reported that premier league football brings in multi millions to the city of Swansea every year so what ever the problems may be surely they are of long term benefit to everybody in the city of Swansea ?
I'm no expert in Amy of this but I think it's fair to say that options and problems have been looked at for the last 3 yrs at least, when the vetch was in it's heyday we used to park by weavers (saisbury now)and walk over to the ground and it took 25mins to get home from where we parked after the game, my point being is that nothing will ever be perfect and people in and around the area would adapt to the changes and soldier on .
Seems to me that perhaps people are looking at reasons not to do it more than looking at reason TO do it, living up to the tag of Swansea being the graveyard of ambition.
We are 21000 now if we went up to 25,000 then I really do think that will be perfect.
I don't know the in's and out's and I'm sure it's a complex situation but sometimes we as a city need to be bold, the football club has shown what can be achieved with vision and ambition ,they maybe at a cross roads but I don't see the problem with sticking 4,000 extra seats in our ground which will help the city,the supporters,the tourism and the club . | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 10:56 - Oct 17 with 968 views | JackSomething |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 10:39 - Oct 17 by icecoldjack |
Agree.
But teams like Liverpool and everton with their old stadia amongst houses seem to manage logistical problems, it may be a problem once every 2 weeks for us but overall I don't see That being the main sticking point.
It was reported that premier league football brings in multi millions to the city of Swansea every year so what ever the problems may be surely they are of long term benefit to everybody in the city of Swansea ?
I'm no expert in Amy of this but I think it's fair to say that options and problems have been looked at for the last 3 yrs at least, when the vetch was in it's heyday we used to park by weavers (saisbury now)and walk over to the ground and it took 25mins to get home from where we parked after the game, my point being is that nothing will ever be perfect and people in and around the area would adapt to the changes and soldier on .
Seems to me that perhaps people are looking at reasons not to do it more than looking at reason TO do it, living up to the tag of Swansea being the graveyard of ambition.
We are 21000 now if we went up to 25,000 then I really do think that will be perfect.
I don't know the in's and out's and I'm sure it's a complex situation but sometimes we as a city need to be bold, the football club has shown what can be achieved with vision and ambition ,they maybe at a cross roads but I don't see the problem with sticking 4,000 extra seats in our ground which will help the city,the supporters,the tourism and the club . |
I don't disagree with anything you've said there and I too would like to see us expand to 25k as soon as possible. It's those who seem to think it's a simple process I take issue with, you're clearly not in that camp.
I agree with TDH that it would be nice to have some more communication from the club on the issue.
Also, I wonder just how big a factor is the fact that we're going to be spending huge sums on a stadium we don't own? That's got to be complicated. | |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
| |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 11:17 - Oct 17 with 953 views | Dewi1jack |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 08:23 - Oct 17 by jackb |
Probably true, but this is about those who would start a casual supporter with a spontaneous decision and a walk up purchase and could end up with them being a supporter for life |
I think this is how the majority of us started.
My dad, RIP, took me to Tosh's 1st match in charge, purely because my dad was a Kopite and wanted to see how JT did.
That was my 1st live game. Still going home and sometimes away, over 36yrs later (it doesn't seem that long ago, but that's maybe because the club has now settled down to a 'normality' after Streul, Petty, Silver Shysters etc)
The club needs new blood coming in.
No kids coming through the turnstiles now, could mean no "customers" for the "product" in the future. Us oldies all pass on sooner or later
Nobody young and new watching the club now (and getting hooked) means no call for the "product" in the future.
That ladies and gents= no club |  |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 13:32 - Oct 17 with 894 views | icecoldjack |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 11:17 - Oct 17 by Dewi1jack |
I think this is how the majority of us started.
My dad, RIP, took me to Tosh's 1st match in charge, purely because my dad was a Kopite and wanted to see how JT did.
That was my 1st live game. Still going home and sometimes away, over 36yrs later (it doesn't seem that long ago, but that's maybe because the club has now settled down to a 'normality' after Streul, Petty, Silver Shysters etc)
The club needs new blood coming in.
No kids coming through the turnstiles now, could mean no "customers" for the "product" in the future. Us oldies all pass on sooner or later
Nobody young and new watching the club now (and getting hooked) means no call for the "product" in the future.
That ladies and gents= no club |
Nicely summed up fella  | | | |
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