| Why do people deny mass killings? 16:11 - Oct 23 with 1079 views | saint901 |
The BBC reports today that a former TV producer who claimed to be journalist - and was therefore able to act in the public interest - was guilty of harassment against two survivors of the Manchester Arena attack.
Said alleged journalist claimed that the attack never happened; that many of the alleged victims were already dead by the time of the attack or were outside the UK; that his "analysis" was based on sound principles; that his tracing of victims of the attack to "check that they acted consistently with the injuries claimed" was reasonable; that the multiple videos and book he produced were not based entirely on a falsehood.
There are charges about breach of data protection which will be decided later.
This has echoes of the Sandy Hook mass killing in the USA which Alex Jones - a person with some right wing views - denied ever happened. He has been whacked with a huge fine and a promise of jail time if he does not pay.
I don't know what sanction the UK denier will get.
What drives these people?
Do they really think that it was possible to "stage" the bombing in Manchester in the middle of a concert attended by tens of thousands? Does he think that a public enquiry and ample evidence of life changing injuries to people are all false?
Or is this really all about him. He's a desperate narcissist who was never going to amount to much and so chose notoriety?
If I were young enough to retrain, I'd be interested in doing a PhD in how and why these people think as they do? |  | | |  |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 18:38 - Oct 23 with 948 views | Jellybaby |
https://www.richplanet.net/manchester.php
Above is Rich D Hall's website which includes his body of work on the Manchester Arena bombing. I'm assuming you have looked at his side of the story before dimissing his claims out of hand and calling him a narcicist, surely? | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 18:55 - Oct 23 with 942 views | felly1 |
Since the Internet began to dominate people's lives there has been an absolute explosion in people who have stopped believing in reality as we know it.
Imo it's either an understandable blip as our brains are struggling to cope with information overload or it really is the sign of a species on a path to extinction. | | | |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 19:45 - Oct 23 with 895 views | cocklebreath |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 18:38 - Oct 23 by Jellybaby |
https://www.richplanet.net/manchester.php
Above is Rich D Hall's website which includes his body of work on the Manchester Arena bombing. I'm assuming you have looked at his side of the story before dimissing his claims out of hand and calling him a narcicist, surely? |
Jesus Christ |  |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 21:17 - Oct 23 with 830 views | 1885_SFC |
The guy is a nutter and a wrong'un.
No doubt he's denying the holocaust ever happened too... |  |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 08:59 - Oct 24 with 691 views | saint901 |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 18:38 - Oct 23 by Jellybaby |
https://www.richplanet.net/manchester.php
Above is Rich D Hall's website which includes his body of work on the Manchester Arena bombing. I'm assuming you have looked at his side of the story before dimissing his claims out of hand and calling him a narcicist, surely? |
I have read the decision of the Court and the pleadings made on behalf of the victims and the alleged journalist.
I've read the fact that he stalked victims - used what were at best shoddy analytics - was selective in what materials he claimed to believe and which not.
I think narcissist is actually being kind to him. I could have used some of the words that his victims used such as deranged, delusional, parasite.
Let me ask you a direct question Mr J.
Do you think a bomb went off in the Manchester Arena and that 22 people were killed and many more injured? | | | |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 11:28 - Oct 24 with 629 views | Gennaro_Contaldo |
The internet has become an enabler for simple people to believe this crap. Nutjob conspiracy theorists have always existed, but now they have a platform to peddle their crap to simple people.
So these weirdos denying something didn't happen will only get more frequent, sadly. |  |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 13:29 - Oct 24 with 593 views | DorsetIan |
Every individual is different, so understanding motives is not easy but there is some interesting stuff here:
https://www.apa.org/news/podcasts/speaking-of-psychology/conspiracy-theories
A bit like those with fundamentalist religious believes, there is also an element of conspiracy theory thinking that always has an answer to any counter-evidence. Pure Popperian unfalsifiability. Jelly, for example, will dismiss those talking in the link as undoubtedly in the pay of the lizards. | |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 13:45 - Oct 24 with 576 views | saint901 |
Mr DorsetIan is correct.
The defence of nested conspiracies will always give those who choose to believe a certain thing an escape route.
So do those of us who are either prepared to believe the evidence of our own eyes or place some trust in news sources or have been successfully duped by one of a number of bodies apparently vying for world domination (take your pick) have any obligation to challenge or seek to persuade others as to our version of the truth?
Probably not unless we see that as a sport or enjoy goading the gullible. | | | |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 14:10 - Oct 24 with 553 views | 1885_SFC |
The 9/11 nutters are the weirdest - blaming it all on a US government inside job.
Comedy gold that lot  | |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 14:11 - Oct 24 with 552 views | franniesTache |
I've always had a fairly simplistic view of conspiracy theories.
They exist, and people believe them, because facing the reality that the world is complicated, random and unfair is hard for many people. So find a conspiracy to explain the reality of nature and humanity is far easier and more comforting.
I doubt we'll ever change that, and deprogramming those who've fallen down the rabbit hole is really, really hard. |  | | |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 15:11 - Oct 24 with 520 views | saint901 |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 14:11 - Oct 24 by franniesTache |
I've always had a fairly simplistic view of conspiracy theories.
They exist, and people believe them, because facing the reality that the world is complicated, random and unfair is hard for many people. So find a conspiracy to explain the reality of nature and humanity is far easier and more comforting.
I doubt we'll ever change that, and deprogramming those who've fallen down the rabbit hole is really, really hard. |
And let's face it the world of conspiracy is painted in a rainbow of colours whilst the rest of us are in black and white.
One the more risible theories I've seen recently is that Trump planned to first assassination attempt (in which somebody was killed) as part of his campaign.
SO we are asked to believe that a hobby shooter was able to hit a very small target (his ear) from 200+ yards, on a windy day, knowing that he would have at best 30 seconds before the trained marksmen of the guards "neutralised" him. Just because Trump needed a boost in his ratings?
No. Whatever drove the shooter to attempt the assassination it was not part of a plot to improve the polls.
But I've probably seen three or four attempts to claim this. | | | |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 16:40 - Oct 24 with 487 views | DorsetIan |
There's one interesting thing with conspiracy theorists...
They all think that we are gullible fools for believing what 'the man' tells us to believe.
And we all think that they are gullible fools for believing the conspiratorial nonsense.
In the words of Ralph Brown/Danny: "Why trust one drug and not the other? That's politics, innit?" | |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 20:24 - Oct 24 with 405 views | Jellybaby |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 08:59 - Oct 24 by saint901 |
I have read the decision of the Court and the pleadings made on behalf of the victims and the alleged journalist.
I've read the fact that he stalked victims - used what were at best shoddy analytics - was selective in what materials he claimed to believe and which not.
I think narcissist is actually being kind to him. I could have used some of the words that his victims used such as deranged, delusional, parasite.
Let me ask you a direct question Mr J.
Do you think a bomb went off in the Manchester Arena and that 22 people were killed and many more injured? |
So in answer to my question, no you did not read his side of the story 901. How can you make a fair judgement then?
In answer to your question 901, I don't know, I wasn't there. I don't think that everything on the tellybox is true 901, do you? | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 20:41 - Oct 24 with 394 views | Jellybaby |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 13:29 - Oct 24 by DorsetIan |
Every individual is different, so understanding motives is not easy but there is some interesting stuff here:
https://www.apa.org/news/podcasts/speaking-of-psychology/conspiracy-theories
A bit like those with fundamentalist religious believes, there is also an element of conspiracy theory thinking that always has an answer to any counter-evidence. Pure Popperian unfalsifiability. Jelly, for example, will dismiss those talking in the link as undoubtedly in the pay of the lizards. |
Thanks for your assumptions Ian, as usual they are wrong.
I did listen to the link, I found the young professor girl genuine enough - one of her points was that "everyone is a conspiracy theorist up to a point unless they believe everything they are told", I guess she has never met you! 
Your continued use of the term "Lizards" is a cheap attempt to undermine those who believe there is corruption in high places. I may need to replace you with 901 as chief antagonist if you carry on like this.
We had many discussions over Covid vaccine safety and that if the average death was 82, why were they coercing younger people to have this and now we have the slow release of admission, see this link from the BBC, your thoughts?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0kj1pmr7jdo?utm_source=substack&utm_med | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 20:49 - Oct 24 with 384 views | Jellybaby |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 16:40 - Oct 24 by DorsetIan |
There's one interesting thing with conspiracy theorists...
They all think that we are gullible fools for believing what 'the man' tells us to believe.
And we all think that they are gullible fools for believing the conspiratorial nonsense.
In the words of Ralph Brown/Danny: "Why trust one drug and not the other? That's politics, innit?" |
You seem determined to create 2 sides, but life is much more nuanced than that, there are a spectrum of conspiracies, no one believes them all and no one except you of course believes none.
I do wonder if the conspiracy haters on here are having some kind of internal struggle, as you do keep on about them! | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 21:39 - Oct 24 with 349 views | DorsetIan |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 20:41 - Oct 24 by Jellybaby |
Thanks for your assumptions Ian, as usual they are wrong.
I did listen to the link, I found the young professor girl genuine enough - one of her points was that "everyone is a conspiracy theorist up to a point unless they believe everything they are told", I guess she has never met you!
Your continued use of the term "Lizards" is a cheap attempt to undermine those who believe there is corruption in high places. I may need to replace you with 901 as chief antagonist if you carry on like this.
We had many discussions over Covid vaccine safety and that if the average death was 82, why were they coercing younger people to have this and now we have the slow release of admission, see this link from the BBC, your thoughts?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0kj1pmr7jdo?utm_source=substack&utm_med |
Why were they 'coercing' young people?
Were they intending to kill them, was that the plan? | |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 21:46 - Oct 24 with 342 views | DorsetIan |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 20:49 - Oct 24 by Jellybaby |
You seem determined to create 2 sides, but life is much more nuanced than that, there are a spectrum of conspiracies, no one believes them all and no one except you of course believes none.
I do wonder if the conspiracy haters on here are having some kind of internal struggle, as you do keep on about them! |
We don't believe in large scale conspiracies because, as franniesTache succinctly explained, we know that the world is too complicated, random and unfair for a conspiracy of any more than let's say a dozen people to survive contact with the world for more than a few days.
So it is pretty binary. You either believe in impossible things or you don't. | |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 22:43 - Oct 24 with 313 views | franniesTache |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 21:46 - Oct 24 by DorsetIan |
We don't believe in large scale conspiracies because, as franniesTache succinctly explained, we know that the world is too complicated, random and unfair for a conspiracy of any more than let's say a dozen people to survive contact with the world for more than a few days.
So it is pretty binary. You either believe in impossible things or you don't. |
I learned long ago I could never understand or explain everything. The only thing I know as I get older is how much I don’t know.
So I tend to not always need a reason for why bad things happen, they often just do, and even more often they’re informed by the history that came before them.
Not quite chaos theory, more cause and effect, but that cause and effect is so complicated that unravelling it is nigh on impossible.
Take the old favourite 9/11, you could point to the start of that as being the CIA backing the mujahdien with weapons and training, but that would over simplify the Cold War and religious and historical threads of the Middle East.
The thing that makes most conspiracies work is there’s always a grain of truth in them, again with 9/11 globalisation definitely played a part, but not in the way the conspiracy says, in the far more boring way that it was part of social and economic upheaval in the world, and contributed to various wars.
So yeah the simple answer is a conspiracy, the reality is just that the world is complex and all actions and have a reaction somewhere | | | |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 09:46 - Oct 25 with 226 views | saint901 |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 20:24 - Oct 24 by Jellybaby |
So in answer to my question, no you did not read his side of the story 901. How can you make a fair judgement then?
In answer to your question 901, I don't know, I wasn't there. I don't think that everything on the tellybox is true 901, do you? |
Mr J.
This looks like a denial to me and exposes a contradiction at the heart of your belief system.
On the one hand you say that because you did not witness the bombing and killing and maiming, then you cannot say for sure it happened and on the other the "evidence" of the faux journalist here should be believed even though you were not in the car with him when he was stopped by police and arrested for harassment.
Selective facts to support your own confirmation bias.
We've had our debates Mr J and for so long as the issues were not what I would describe as potentially dangerous for you or me or the readers, I've been happy to poke fun and point out inconsistencies and I've been happy to take on board your points. That is a healthy debate.
I fear however that a line has been crossed here.
If this post is truly your view and not just another attempt at a wind up, I think that we are going to be at opposite ends of the credibility scale with a gap that cannot be crossed.
I think I'd be wasting my time trying to use logic and facts to overcome your reliance on rumour and fabrication by people with an agenda that is unknown.
I have enjoyed our exchanges but regret that this is the last.
I wish you and your family well. | | | |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 19:05 - Oct 25 with 101 views | Jellybaby |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 09:46 - Oct 25 by saint901 |
Mr J.
This looks like a denial to me and exposes a contradiction at the heart of your belief system.
On the one hand you say that because you did not witness the bombing and killing and maiming, then you cannot say for sure it happened and on the other the "evidence" of the faux journalist here should be believed even though you were not in the car with him when he was stopped by police and arrested for harassment.
Selective facts to support your own confirmation bias.
We've had our debates Mr J and for so long as the issues were not what I would describe as potentially dangerous for you or me or the readers, I've been happy to poke fun and point out inconsistencies and I've been happy to take on board your points. That is a healthy debate.
I fear however that a line has been crossed here.
If this post is truly your view and not just another attempt at a wind up, I think that we are going to be at opposite ends of the credibility scale with a gap that cannot be crossed.
I think I'd be wasting my time trying to use logic and facts to overcome your reliance on rumour and fabrication by people with an agenda that is unknown.
I have enjoyed our exchanges but regret that this is the last.
I wish you and your family well. |
Oh 901 Babe I didn’t know you were feeling so fragile, I thought we had a love that would last forever, I didn’t realise it was conditional on me not crossing your red line (saying I don’t know, I wasn’t there)
I thought we were close - at times you let me call you 9, I thought you were the Morriarty to my Sherlock, or the Tom to my Jerry. This is a blow to the heart 901. Farewell my summer love.
oh well, in the words of Phil Lynott “If that chic don’t wanna know forget her”.
Dorset Ian, we are back on, it was only ever you……… [Post edited 25 Oct 19:12]
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| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Why do people deny mass killings? on 19:28 - Oct 25 with 83 views | DorsetIan |
| Why do people deny mass killings? on 19:05 - Oct 25 by Jellybaby |
Oh 901 Babe I didn’t know you were feeling so fragile, I thought we had a love that would last forever, I didn’t realise it was conditional on me not crossing your red line (saying I don’t know, I wasn’t there)
I thought we were close - at times you let me call you 9, I thought you were the Morriarty to my Sherlock, or the Tom to my Jerry. This is a blow to the heart 901. Farewell my summer love.
oh well, in the words of Phil Lynott “If that chic don’t wanna know forget her”.
Dorset Ian, we are back on, it was only ever you……… [Post edited 25 Oct 19:12]
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I'm sorry Jelly but your emotional wobbling is too much for me.
You made your choice and it didn't work out. Them's the breaks my gelatin friend. | |
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