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Some talk recently of regeneration of the sea front with St Helens.
The Mumbles tram is a far better idea and should come first. Whatever the problems I am sure they can be sorted. Last discussed 10 years ago. £50m- £100m or so probably.
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 15:14 - Jun 9 by theloneranger
... "Last discussed 10 years ago. £50m- £100m or so probably."
You really should read what you place on here, before passing comment on the costing!! ...
.. "the creation of a light rail network around Swansea Bay, which would take in the old Mumbles line, at an estimated cost of some £235 million."
Plus we never had a "TRAM"
It's never going to happen for logistical, environmental, health and cost reasons. Logistically it is now not possible to have a train route from Swansea to Oystermouth and beyond. The prom is now used by so many to exercise be it walkers joggers or cyclists using cycle route 4 there is little room to move now. Nobody is going to restrict the exercise area for health reasons. From Swansea Observatory to the rugby ground there is no room to widen the promenade, from there to the West Cross Inn possibly but it would encroach on a lot of green space. From there down after the development of recent years it is virtually impossible. There are stretches of a couple of hundred yards if you took over space used for car parking, but that would never be allowed as there is not enough parking in the village anyway. On top of that £14M is currently being spent on strengthening the sea defences at Oystermouth with virtually no encroachment into the sea. Widening the promenade would mean sea encroachment and that would never be done for environmental and cost reasons. Life has moved on and allough the mumbles train would be nice, I did travel on the old train many times including the last journey, it will never be viable in the world we live in now.
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 15:14 - Jun 9 by theloneranger
... "Last discussed 10 years ago. £50m- £100m or so probably."
You really should read what you place on here, before passing comment on the costing!! ...
.. "the creation of a light rail network around Swansea Bay, which would take in the old Mumbles line, at an estimated cost of some £235 million."
Plus we never had a "TRAM"
It was a ballpark figure based on gut feeling but usually predicting engineering costs in UK is not easy. I used the word 'probably' as I did not know accurate estimates.
I never said it was a reinstatement. i have seen the double decker electric bus or whatever it was called. I never called that a tram.
There are always good reasons for not doing engineering works. Engineers are employed to work these things out. Trams can cross over the public highway with lights if required. Jogging and walking routes while valuable can be re routed.
Swans fans usually are up in arms of money spent in Cardiff metro but this is "not possible or too expensive or would affect green areas or jogging routes" when it is Swansea.
[Post edited 9 Jun 20:11]
Wise sage since Toshack era
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Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 20:10 - Jun 9 with 1161 views
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 17:45 - Jun 9 by Whiterockin
It's never going to happen for logistical, environmental, health and cost reasons. Logistically it is now not possible to have a train route from Swansea to Oystermouth and beyond. The prom is now used by so many to exercise be it walkers joggers or cyclists using cycle route 4 there is little room to move now. Nobody is going to restrict the exercise area for health reasons. From Swansea Observatory to the rugby ground there is no room to widen the promenade, from there to the West Cross Inn possibly but it would encroach on a lot of green space. From there down after the development of recent years it is virtually impossible. There are stretches of a couple of hundred yards if you took over space used for car parking, but that would never be allowed as there is not enough parking in the village anyway. On top of that £14M is currently being spent on strengthening the sea defences at Oystermouth with virtually no encroachment into the sea. Widening the promenade would mean sea encroachment and that would never be done for environmental and cost reasons. Life has moved on and allough the mumbles train would be nice, I did travel on the old train many times including the last journey, it will never be viable in the world we live in now.
Where there's a will there's a way
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
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Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 20:12 - Jun 9 with 1151 views
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 20:08 - Jun 9 by ReslovenSwan1
It was a ballpark figure based on gut feeling but usually predicting engineering costs in UK is not easy. I used the word 'probably' as I did not know accurate estimates.
I never said it was a reinstatement. i have seen the double decker electric bus or whatever it was called. I never called that a tram.
There are always good reasons for not doing engineering works. Engineers are employed to work these things out. Trams can cross over the public highway with lights if required. Jogging and walking routes while valuable can be re routed.
Swans fans usually are up in arms of money spent in Cardiff metro but this is "not possible or too expensive or would affect green areas or jogging routes" when it is Swansea.
[Post edited 9 Jun 20:11]
Because the Assembly subsidise Cardiff and gives scraps to Swansea
You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 21:21 - Jun 9 by ReslovenSwan1
Probably not true. There have been massive investment in Swansea over the last 20 years.
It is second syndrome thinking. If Cardiff vcan ave the metro Swansea should be pressing for the Mumbles light rail.
But it is true , my City has been handed scraps whilst Cardiff has grown beyond all recognition . “Almost four out of every five jobs in Wales being created in Cardiff between 2015 and 2020 with only about 13% of Wales’ population live there .Second city syndrome my arse , just a truth.
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 07:54 - Jun 10 by Boundy
But it is true , my City has been handed scraps whilst Cardiff has grown beyond all recognition . “Almost four out of every five jobs in Wales being created in Cardiff between 2015 and 2020 with only about 13% of Wales’ population live there .Second city syndrome my arse , just a truth.
It is beyond doubt focusssing on Cardiff,as the capital ,is a policy to promote Wales ,as a Whole. It’s not unlike London,England .
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 09:17 - Jun 10 by onehunglow
It is beyond doubt focusssing on Cardiff,as the capital ,is a policy to promote Wales ,as a Whole. It’s not unlike London,England .
[Post edited 10 Jun 9:40]
Cardiff is the capital city, what do you expect. It's the same in most countries and most regions of the UK.The main business centers get the most. Do I like it, no, but it is what it is.
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Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 09:32 - Jun 10 with 924 views
I am not a Swansea man but when I support a real good thing I suspect Swansea people want, it is Swansea people telling me it is too difficult would upset joggers and is too expensive ( for Swansea).
At the same time St Helens is a great investment although it removes synergies is bad for the football club and is not necessary.
I have noticed Northern English were ambivalent about HS2 and too expensive. Every thing North of Watford is too expensive. No problem for Cross rail London 2012 etc.
It is a gaslighted mentality.
Wise sage since Toshack era
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Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 14:30 - Jun 10 with 838 views
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 14:17 - Jun 10 by ReslovenSwan1
I am not a Swansea man but when I support a real good thing I suspect Swansea people want, it is Swansea people telling me it is too difficult would upset joggers and is too expensive ( for Swansea).
At the same time St Helens is a great investment although it removes synergies is bad for the football club and is not necessary.
I have noticed Northern English were ambivalent about HS2 and too expensive. Every thing North of Watford is too expensive. No problem for Cross rail London 2012 etc.
It is a gaslighted mentality.
What?
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
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Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 18:13 - Jun 10 with 772 views
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 09:28 - Jun 10 by controversial_jack
Cardiff is the capital city, what do you expect. It's the same in most countries and most regions of the UK.The main business centers get the most. Do I like it, no, but it is what it is.
It is right that a place that is the Capital City of a country should get more money invested in it. Also that should happen to allow for the fact that that city usually has the highest population.
But there's a limit. Even allowing for the above Cardiff has had far more than it's fair share.
The same applies to London.
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Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 18:15 - Jun 10 with 764 views
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 21:21 - Jun 9 by ReslovenSwan1
Probably not true. There have been massive investment in Swansea over the last 20 years.
It is second syndrome thinking. If Cardiff vcan ave the metro Swansea should be pressing for the Mumbles light rail.
At one point for every pound the Senedd spent in Swansea it spent 7 in Cardiff. The massive investement in Swansea is nothing compared to what they've had in Cardiff.
Your points about the Mumbles "train" are again poorly thought out. When WR said it had been costed at around 235 million then by now that has probably tripled, the pirces to purchase those houses and the land have risen a lot in 10 years and the logistical cost is enormous with the certainty that parts of the Mumbles road would have to be closed while works were done, it would cause chaos. It's that or spend even more money on extending the seafron out into the bay. Seeing as you are not happy about the idea of 10-15 million beong spent on St Helens, where do you think a minimum of 235 million is coming from? Then tag on infaltion of the last 10 years and it becomes around 330 million, who is supplying that?
It should never have been stopped but it's too late now. Though I have wondered about a monorail.
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Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 18:24 - Jun 10 with 759 views
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 18:13 - Jun 10 by johnlangy
It is right that a place that is the Capital City of a country should get more money invested in it. Also that should happen to allow for the fact that that city usually has the highest population.
But there's a limit. Even allowing for the above Cardiff has had far more than it's fair share.
The same applies to London.
The mindset on the earliest days of develotion was any thing that Cardiff was given/built would benefit the rest of Wales and initially for some parts that was true but now with no shame what's so ever what ever Cardiff perceives it needs it gets and at our expense. Take the flooding carried out to create the so called "Bay" despite numerous objections by environmentalists (strange that they were listened to when it came to cancelling the Brynglas tunnels bypass) it was built and we the Welsh taxpayer contribute to its maintenance and upkeep, not sure what benefit that has been to someone living in Skewen.
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
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Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 18:28 - Jun 10 with 758 views
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 18:13 - Jun 10 by johnlangy
It is right that a place that is the Capital City of a country should get more money invested in it. Also that should happen to allow for the fact that that city usually has the highest population.
But there's a limit. Even allowing for the above Cardiff has had far more than it's fair share.
The same applies to London.
Why? Why should a capital city get more money, specially when other places need the money more?
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Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 00:44 - Jun 11 with 698 views
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 18:15 - Jun 10 by johnlangy
I didn't understand it either Boundy.
Res - slow down when writing your posts and read them back before hitting enter. Give us a chance to understand please.
When London spent £20 billion on the Olympics and West Ham were treated like a charity and handed over the stadium for peanuts no one complained. ( no one said this waste was "too expensive")
The 20 billion Cross rail was built and completed. (no one said it was "too expensive")
HS2 will stop at Birmingham as Middle Englanders demanded shallow tunnels through flat boring arable land. (every one said it was " too expensive")
There was no HS2 - HS1 link to allow Northerners to get a sleeper from Leeds to Paris or Brussels.. ("Too expensive" and blocked by London Luvvie nimbys)
Northerners never complained as they read London based press and media. Northerns like some Swansea people "know their place".
It was not "too expensive" but it was "too expensive for us".
There are 11 tram light rail lines in UK none in Wales. The Swansea one would probably be the shortest.
It is not "too expensive" it is " too expensive for us"
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 01:00 - Jun 11 by ReslovenSwan1
When London spent £20 billion on the Olympics and West Ham were treated like a charity and handed over the stadium for peanuts no one complained. ( no one said this waste was "too expensive")
The 20 billion Cross rail was built and completed. (no one said it was "too expensive")
HS2 will stop at Birmingham as Middle Englanders demanded shallow tunnels through flat boring arable land. (every one said it was " too expensive")
There was no HS2 - HS1 link to allow Northerners to get a sleeper from Leeds to Paris or Brussels.. ("Too expensive" and blocked by London Luvvie nimbys)
Northerners never complained as they read London based press and media. Northerns like some Swansea people "know their place".
It was not "too expensive" but it was "too expensive for us".
There are 11 tram light rail lines in UK none in Wales. The Swansea one would probably be the shortest.
It is not "too expensive" it is " too expensive for us"
Res - this thread has been about the possibility of Swansea Council subsidising the redevelopment of St Helens to the tune of £10 million. You suggested the money would be better spent on rebuilding the Mumbles Train or maybe a tram line. Others pointed out that the train costs were £235 million a long time ago and would be £500 million now, likely as not a lot more than that. And they quite rightly said it was too expensive and difficult.
Then you compare that situation with the cost of the Olympics, Crossrail, and HS2 saying they were not considered 'too expensive'.
The reason they were not considered 'too expensive' was because those projects were designated by Westminster as being for the benefit of the whole of the UK so the whole of the UK ended up paying for them. No matter the cost.
So the only reasonable comparison you could make would be if the UK government designated the rebuilding of the Mumbles Train as a project that would benefit the whole of the UK and that the whole of the UK would pay for it. No matter the cost
If you just guess that rebuilding the train would cost eventually £1 billion the cost to Wales (not Swansea Council tax payers) would be £50 million while the rest (£950 Million) would be born by the rest of the UK.
I'd imagine that if that was on offer the Council would take about a split second to say yes.
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Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 14:07 - Jun 11 with 550 views
Mumbles tram. A long term no brainer? on 14:07 - Jun 11 by raynor94
£50 million for the arena, from the Swansea City Bay deal. Wow!
Mere scraps I'm afraid , but keep doffing our caps and we may get more. A few years back there was £19 million set aside by the Cardiff lot to allow the expansion of the marina but was withdrawn as it wasn't considered a good use of public money and spent "elsewhere" in Wales . Just another example I'm afraid of not even getting handme downs.
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
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