| Time to play our own 23:00 - Mar 1 with 10651 views | Ned_Kennedys |
After the last couple of results we are clearly destined for the lowest of mid tables so what is the point of playing Edwards and Min-hyeok as they will never sign for us. Drop them and get Morrison and Smyth back in the starting line up as they are ours. I’m assuming Saito will be signed so he should be starting. |  | | |  |
| Time to play our own on 11:29 - Mar 4 with 1478 views | GaryHaddock |
| Time to play our own on 11:27 - Mar 4 by TK1 |
This is a mental thread. My season ticket is for the current season so can I watch the players in the squad now please? We might be dead before 25/26.
Play the best players you have at your disposal every week, for every match - form and fitness permitting. That's what managers should always do.
Two thirds of the squad are out of contract in three months and nobody here can know whether Steve Cook, Kenny Paal or Michi Frey are any more likely to be QPR players than Koki Saito or Ronnie Edwards in August. Should we just not play any of them? Who's playing left back against Leeds, then?
QPR have had some pretty grim March/April results in the past - do we just write these months off with the U23s and hope that we don't really still need two or three wins. (We need two or three wins).
AND there are many many many QPR loan players I have enjoyed watching and felt more affection for than most of the QPR signed squad members they played with.
Off the top of my head, here's a QPR loanee team, all of whom I enjoyed watching and who were in several cases much loveable than the QPR players they joined. Some only played a few games, some signed at the end of their loan, some saved the team from certain relegation, some helped us to glory...
Here, this team would hand our current team its arse:
Lee Camp
Kyle Walker
Danny Shittu
Darren Ward
Mark Kennedy
Stefan Johanson
Niko Krancjar
Ravel Morrison
Lee Cook
Adel Taarabt
Heidar Helguson
Subs
Nahki Wells
Inigo Idiakez
Andros Townsend
Michael Mancienne
Jerome Thomas
Geoff Cameron
Jimmy Smith |
What’s your XI for players that were loan only? |  | | |
| Time to play our own on 11:37 - Mar 4 with 1446 views | Northernr |
I think a few things can be true at once in this case.
1 - The latest accounts show, again, we desperately need big sales. We need to develop players for sale. If you've got a loan player starting who you can never hope to buy that's one less place in the team to do that with. So, ideally, you wouldn't do it, and actually in Edwards' case it's even worse because you're developing a superb young player for a team we're going to be playing against in six months' time.
2 - Not everybody in your team can be a development prospect. Experience, game smarts, voice on the pitch is something we've talked about lacking for a long time. You're no more getting any money for Steve Cook or Jack Colback than you are Yang or Edwards. It's about a mix and a blend.
3 - With our budget, we're always going to need some loans to keep the team at a standard required for the division. If we could get a few big sales then we could stop that, so I guess in that respect it's a bit of a vicious circle.
4 - We're in a fairly awkward situation at the moment where the majority of the first team, including the entire back four, is out of contract in the summer. So it's not really practical to be picking a team entirely focused on next season.
5 - While JCS is injured, Ronnie Edwards is the only defender we've got who can perform a role on the left side of the defence which is critical to how the team plays.
I want to see Morrison back in ASAP, personally. In the final few games it would be fun to see a few Emmerson Sutton types. I'm usually absolutely firm on no loans, play your own, development model etc. But it's not a black and white situation this with the way the contracts and team is atm. |  | | |
| Time to play our own on 11:40 - Mar 4 with 1420 views | TK1 |
| Time to play our own on 11:29 - Mar 4 by GaryHaddock |
What’s your XI for players that were loan only? |
"off the top of my head"! I'd have to do a bit of research, just off to try and earn a living but will return.
ps. we don't know which of our current loanees are truly just loanees, nor which of our out of contract players are out the door players. Play your best team... |  | | |
| Time to play our own on 11:51 - Mar 4 with 1395 views | GaryHaddock |
| Time to play our own on 11:40 - Mar 4 by TK1 |
"off the top of my head"! I'd have to do a bit of research, just off to try and earn a living but will return.
ps. we don't know which of our current loanees are truly just loanees, nor which of our out of contract players are out the door players. Play your best team... |
That’s true.
If Edwards’s and Yang are realistic permanent signings then I’m all for putting minutes into their legs. | | | |
| Time to play our own on 12:00 - Mar 4 with 1373 views | GaryHaddock |
| Time to play our own on 11:37 - Mar 4 by Northernr |
I think a few things can be true at once in this case.
1 - The latest accounts show, again, we desperately need big sales. We need to develop players for sale. If you've got a loan player starting who you can never hope to buy that's one less place in the team to do that with. So, ideally, you wouldn't do it, and actually in Edwards' case it's even worse because you're developing a superb young player for a team we're going to be playing against in six months' time.
2 - Not everybody in your team can be a development prospect. Experience, game smarts, voice on the pitch is something we've talked about lacking for a long time. You're no more getting any money for Steve Cook or Jack Colback than you are Yang or Edwards. It's about a mix and a blend.
3 - With our budget, we're always going to need some loans to keep the team at a standard required for the division. If we could get a few big sales then we could stop that, so I guess in that respect it's a bit of a vicious circle.
4 - We're in a fairly awkward situation at the moment where the majority of the first team, including the entire back four, is out of contract in the summer. So it's not really practical to be picking a team entirely focused on next season.
5 - While JCS is injured, Ronnie Edwards is the only defender we've got who can perform a role on the left side of the defence which is critical to how the team plays.
I want to see Morrison back in ASAP, personally. In the final few games it would be fun to see a few Emmerson Sutton types. I'm usually absolutely firm on no loans, play your own, development model etc. But it's not a black and white situation this with the way the contracts and team is atm. |
I agree with this.
I do think we should remember the contract situation of the players right now next time we have a pop at a Manning, BOS, or Robinson type. | | | |
| Time to play our own on 12:01 - Mar 4 with 1368 views | TheChef |
| Time to play our own on 11:51 - Mar 4 by GaryHaddock |
That’s true.
If Edwards’s and Yang are realistic permanent signings then I’m all for putting minutes into their legs. |
Well, Edwards maybe if Soton have a bloated squad to trim for the Championship (but can we afford him?)
Yang no chance as a permanent, Spurs just using us as a puppy farm. I suppose maybe we could get a season long loan next season, if it was really worthwhile for us? |  |
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| Time to play our own on 12:18 - Mar 4 with 1329 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Time to play our own on 12:01 - Mar 4 by TheChef |
Well, Edwards maybe if Soton have a bloated squad to trim for the Championship (but can we afford him?)
Yang no chance as a permanent, Spurs just using us as a puppy farm. I suppose maybe we could get a season long loan next season, if it was really worthwhile for us? |
They paid over £3m for him as a League One player last summer: not a chance they will sell him IMO, and even if they did he’s now a decent rated Championship player so his value will be higher. | | | |
| Time to play our own on 12:24 - Mar 4 with 1291 views | TK1 |
| Time to play our own on 12:18 - Mar 4 by Ned_Kennedys |
They paid over £3m for him as a League One player last summer: not a chance they will sell him IMO, and even if they did he’s now a decent rated Championship player so his value will be higher. |
Pick your eleven for Saturday from the players you *know* are here next season then and who are not out injured, ie Field or Kolli, please.
Bear in mind, too, 51 points were required to stay up last season and QPR are currently on 44, -3 goals, with eleven games left (including Leeds, Burnley home, and WBA, Sunderland, Boro away). | | | |
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| Time to play our own on 12:30 - Mar 4 with 1270 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Time to play our own on 12:24 - Mar 4 by TK1 |
Pick your eleven for Saturday from the players you *know* are here next season then and who are not out injured, ie Field or Kolli, please.
Bear in mind, too, 51 points were required to stay up last season and QPR are currently on 44, -3 goals, with eleven games left (including Leeds, Burnley home, and WBA, Sunderland, Boro away). |
This thread is about loan players, not those out of contract who may or may not re-sign for next season. I’d start Morrison instead of Edwards and Smyth instead of Yang and put both loan players on the bench.
We are also 200/1 to get relegated: it’s not going to happen: | | | |
| Time to play our own on 13:04 - Mar 4 with 1181 views | TK1 |
| Time to play our own on 12:30 - Mar 4 by Ned_Kennedys |
This thread is about loan players, not those out of contract who may or may not re-sign for next season. I’d start Morrison instead of Edwards and Smyth instead of Yang and put both loan players on the bench.
We are also 200/1 to get relegated: it’s not going to happen: |
"This thread is about...". Come on, it's a conversation on a messageboard about a ludricrous proposition that nobody at QPR is going to entertain anyway. Humour us!
A player on loan until June is the same as a player out of contract in June. Why make these weird rules that don't apply?
And the best care of a right footed CB who is coming back from surgery having already spent several months out injured may not be playing him at left CB with a similarly recently returned and still somewhat ginger CB.
Let's hope you're right, and in four matches time those odds remain 200/1. | | | |
| Time to play our own on 13:21 - Mar 4 with 1133 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Time to play our own on 13:04 - Mar 4 by TK1 |
"This thread is about...". Come on, it's a conversation on a messageboard about a ludricrous proposition that nobody at QPR is going to entertain anyway. Humour us!
A player on loan until June is the same as a player out of contract in June. Why make these weird rules that don't apply?
And the best care of a right footed CB who is coming back from surgery having already spent several months out injured may not be playing him at left CB with a similarly recently returned and still somewhat ginger CB.
Let's hope you're right, and in four matches time those odds remain 200/1. |
Where is this weird theory that Morrison is not being played because he was injured ages ago come from? If he’s not fit then he wouldn’t be on the bench would he? He’s not playing because Edwards is in the team ahead of him. He’s already proved he’s good enough to play left CB on numerous occasions this season.
And I can distinguish between players we own and loan players: very different situations. | | | |
| Time to play our own on 13:24 - Mar 4 with 1118 views | DavieQPR |
Can.t see many saying Saito should not be playing but he is an loan player. |  | | |
| Time to play our own on 13:29 - Mar 4 with 1105 views | derbyhoop |
| Time to play our own on 13:21 - Mar 4 by Ned_Kennedys |
Where is this weird theory that Morrison is not being played because he was injured ages ago come from? If he’s not fit then he wouldn’t be on the bench would he? He’s not playing because Edwards is in the team ahead of him. He’s already proved he’s good enough to play left CB on numerous occasions this season.
And I can distinguish between players we own and loan players: very different situations. |
Is Morrison mat h fit?
I suspect the management have doubts, otherwise why bring on Fox as an alternative? |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Time to play our own on 13:38 - Mar 4 with 1070 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Time to play our own on 13:24 - Mar 4 by DavieQPR |
Can.t see many saying Saito should not be playing but he is an loan player. |
yes, but one we have every chance of buying. Isn't that the key difference? In the team of loan players selected above in this thread, I believe the vast majority ended up being bought and even in Wells' case we probably had some sort of chance of buying him.
I guess from the club's point of view we will never get another humdinger like Kyle Walker unless we do clubs like Spurs a favour now and again. |  | | |
| Time to play our own on 14:13 - Mar 4 with 976 views | LongRanger |
I've not read all 5 pages, so this may have been said, but seems a little simplistic to say remove the loans and play our own, we want to get as many points this year to be as high as possible, as places = prize money. For me, Edwards is one of our best players, as Walker was, they're not just here to develop, they make us better. Yang however I've not understood from the start, he doesn't appear to add quality we don't already have. Personally I'd use Yang as a sub but I'd play Edwards and rotate Cook and Morrison, as it helps the 2 of them fully recover and build match fitness. The club know which of the out of contract are likely to re-sign and we won't now turn Morrison, Lloyd or Sutton into a multi-million pound prospect by the summer, so for me its about finding a blend. [Post edited 4 Mar 14:13]
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| Time to play our own on 16:06 - Mar 4 with 828 views | francisbowles |
| Time to play our own on 13:29 - Mar 4 by derbyhoop |
Is Morrison mat h fit?
I suspect the management have doubts, otherwise why bring on Fox as an alternative? |
Fox came on because we switched to a back three and he is an experienced left sided, left footed defender.
As well as Morrison played, he always looked uncomfortable on his left foot and on the centre left of a four he had to keep switching the ball to his right foot.
Edwards does it a bit but is better at it and more comfortable using his left. | | | |
| Time to play our own on 16:09 - Mar 4 with 824 views | kensalriser |
| Time to play our own on 14:13 - Mar 4 by LongRanger |
I've not read all 5 pages, so this may have been said, but seems a little simplistic to say remove the loans and play our own, we want to get as many points this year to be as high as possible, as places = prize money. For me, Edwards is one of our best players, as Walker was, they're not just here to develop, they make us better. Yang however I've not understood from the start, he doesn't appear to add quality we don't already have. Personally I'd use Yang as a sub but I'd play Edwards and rotate Cook and Morrison, as it helps the 2 of them fully recover and build match fitness. The club know which of the out of contract are likely to re-sign and we won't now turn Morrison, Lloyd or Sutton into a multi-million pound prospect by the summer, so for me its about finding a blend. [Post edited 4 Mar 14:13]
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Surprisingly difficulty to find info on final position based prize money for the Championship, but I think it's probably fair to say the difference between finishing 7th and 21st isn't very much. That's not to say the manager won't be trying to finish as high as he can because, anything else aside, that's what goes on his CV. |  |
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| Time to play our own on 16:22 - Mar 4 with 791 views | francisbowles |
| Time to play our own on 16:09 - Mar 4 by kensalriser |
Surprisingly difficulty to find info on final position based prize money for the Championship, but I think it's probably fair to say the difference between finishing 7th and 21st isn't very much. That's not to say the manager won't be trying to finish as high as he can because, anything else aside, that's what goes on his CV. |
I'm pretty sure that I remember Lee Hoos, a few seasons back, saying there wasn't any money for position in the Championship.
The TV money was the same wherever you finished.
It could have changed in more recent deals. | | | |
| Time to play our own on 17:27 - Mar 4 with 698 views | nix |
| Time to play our own on 13:21 - Mar 4 by Ned_Kennedys |
Where is this weird theory that Morrison is not being played because he was injured ages ago come from? If he’s not fit then he wouldn’t be on the bench would he? He’s not playing because Edwards is in the team ahead of him. He’s already proved he’s good enough to play left CB on numerous occasions this season.
And I can distinguish between players we own and loan players: very different situations. |
It's not weird considering he's been injured for some time twice this season.
He's on the bench because he might come on to get some minutes if Marti thinks it's sensible for the player and that particular match situation.
As Clive points out it's not as simplistic as loan players keeping out our younger players. Kolli didn't even always get a game when not injured and we didn't have Yang, for instance. There are always factors we don't know about so we're all just speculating. I can't remember him playing on the right, only the left. |  | | |
| Time to play our own on 17:34 - Mar 4 with 687 views | TK1 |
| Time to play our own on 13:21 - Mar 4 by Ned_Kennedys |
Where is this weird theory that Morrison is not being played because he was injured ages ago come from? If he’s not fit then he wouldn’t be on the bench would he? He’s not playing because Edwards is in the team ahead of him. He’s already proved he’s good enough to play left CB on numerous occasions this season.
And I can distinguish between players we own and loan players: very different situations. |
"And I can distinguish between players we own and loan players: very different situations."
What is the difference between a loan player whose deal runs out in June (let's call him Ronnie Edwards) and a contracted player (let's call him Steve Cook) whose deal runs out in June? Let's imagine they are on similar deals. Who is more likely to be playing next season for QPR? Be honest. You don't know. I don't know. Pick from the fit players available.
Liam Morrison, meanwhile, had surgery in September, came back in November, sustained a hip injury that kept him for six weeks a month later. He's been back training for a month. I'm not a physio or sports scientist of your pedigree, but I imagine that is in everybody's mind as they ease him back with minutes from the bench here and there.
It should also be noted that Morrison had a long spell injured at Bayern, too, and at Wigan - both muscle injuries too. So maybe just rushing him back from a second long injury at QPR in his first season when we have a fit loan player in his place may not be the best idea.
Just another weird theory for you. | | | |
| Time to play our own on 17:49 - Mar 4 with 653 views | mart_Goblin |
| Time to play our own on 17:27 - Mar 4 by nix |
It's not weird considering he's been injured for some time twice this season.
He's on the bench because he might come on to get some minutes if Marti thinks it's sensible for the player and that particular match situation.
As Clive points out it's not as simplistic as loan players keeping out our younger players. Kolli didn't even always get a game when not injured and we didn't have Yang, for instance. There are always factors we don't know about so we're all just speculating. I can't remember him playing on the right, only the left. |
Yes, I was trying to allude to ‘factors we don’t know about ‘ previously . I have no inside knowledge of this at all but the medical team and the coaching staff have all the data and we don’t .
It’s only speculation of course but I wouldn’t mind betting that Paul Smyth is showing signs of burnout in his data . He was carrying an injury / knock at Coventry for sure and if he is now going into the ‘red zone’ regularly then the only option is to start Yang more often rather than do serious damage to Smyth long term .
Of course this is speculation and I don’t know if any of that’s true, but there is so much going on behind the scenes that we don’t know , that it’s just far too simplistic to just ‘drop the loan players’.
I really would like to see Morrison more but once again he is clearly being protected and we have to trust the coaching staff on that .
What puzzles me in a related issue is that we clearly put players on the bench when they are returning from injury with absolutely no intent on playing them. JCS has been a prime example of this a few times where he has remained on the bench for even though we’ve had to replace a defender for whatever reason . What’s the point ?
I mean there must be some logic to it but seems strange to me . If you are on the bench then you should be fit to play . |  | | |
| Time to play our own on 18:24 - Mar 4 with 614 views | LongRanger |
| Time to play our own on 16:09 - Mar 4 by kensalriser |
Surprisingly difficulty to find info on final position based prize money for the Championship, but I think it's probably fair to say the difference between finishing 7th and 21st isn't very much. That's not to say the manager won't be trying to finish as high as he can because, anything else aside, that's what goes on his CV. |
Good point, no definite answers, a Leicester forum suggests it was £5m for 1st, £300k for 10th and £50k for 16th, but no idea if that is accurate, but either way appears modest.
I still feel we need to balance best team and blooding young/recovering players, as we need to maintain the winning momentum, for the fans and club, we slip to 16-20th with 3 wins in the last 11 games and its not a great sell for potential new players, for keeping the likes of Dunne etc, or sponsors.
Ultimately I trust MC to get this right based on the information he will have. | | | |
| Time to play our own on 18:41 - Mar 4 with 590 views | GaryHaddock |
| Time to play our own on 13:24 - Mar 4 by DavieQPR |
Can.t see many saying Saito should not be playing but he is an loan player. |
Agreed to buy I believe.
Sometimes the loan aspect is just to circumnavigate finance regulations like we did with Dembele, which is fine IMO. | | | |
| Time to play our own on 06:31 - Mar 6 with 268 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Time to play our own on 17:34 - Mar 4 by TK1 |
"And I can distinguish between players we own and loan players: very different situations."
What is the difference between a loan player whose deal runs out in June (let's call him Ronnie Edwards) and a contracted player (let's call him Steve Cook) whose deal runs out in June? Let's imagine they are on similar deals. Who is more likely to be playing next season for QPR? Be honest. You don't know. I don't know. Pick from the fit players available.
Liam Morrison, meanwhile, had surgery in September, came back in November, sustained a hip injury that kept him for six weeks a month later. He's been back training for a month. I'm not a physio or sports scientist of your pedigree, but I imagine that is in everybody's mind as they ease him back with minutes from the bench here and there.
It should also be noted that Morrison had a long spell injured at Bayern, too, and at Wigan - both muscle injuries too. So maybe just rushing him back from a second long injury at QPR in his first season when we have a fit loan player in his place may not be the best idea.
Just another weird theory for you. |
The Steve Cook and Ronnie Edwards end of season situation is very different.
Surprised you can’t work out which of them is more likely to be here next season.
Be honest: if QPR want to keep Cook they have a chance of re-signing him. If QPR want to keep Edwards they have no chance with Southampton playing in the Championship.
Thanks for your insight on Morrison: like you say you don’t know. | | | |
| Time to play our own on 17:16 - Mar 6 with 11 views | Loft1979 |
Its my feeling Edwards could have an option to buy or handshake agreement. |  | | |
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