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In the UK, it seems that the Tories have suddenly discovered that much of what they did when in power for 14/15 years, was somehow "wrong" and perhaps - perish the thought - "woke" so that they are now justified in calling our Labour for being PC. I get that KB needs to reinvent the party and defend against Reform stealing all its members, but how far will she go?
In the US we have an orange bully about to take over and his Gov't has a collection of controversial figures many of whom might be accused of having right wing opinions.
In Europe we see Italy, Hungary, Germany, France etc all with growing right wing power bases.
There does seem to be a potential backlash against what many would call "woke" (and some would call left wing) policies and attitudes growing.
Is that good or bad?
(Keep it polite please).
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Are the days of "woke" ending? on 12:54 - Jan 11 with 1619 views
I have an American friend, who voted for Trump. For contrast, I voted Labout in the last election here, but I haven't been impressed. I asked him why he voted for Trump, as he clearly controversial.
He and many Americans, do not like being told what to think and say. For example, he has no problem with a biological male calling himself Tracy and a she, wearing a dress if he likes, crack on, but he does have a problem with being told he must also call him she, must agree that he looks good in a dress, when he disagrees. Having to call a person with a beard and stubble a woman, is ridiculous he says and Trump supports people with this view. There is also chaos in terms of right and wrong, with men dressed as a woman walking into female toilets, because it's a grey area, when the vast majority think it shouldn't be. Again Trump supports the simple view, of men in men's toilets and women in women's. The vast majority think that there are two genders men and woman. But the vast majority are told to accept that its not true (when it is).
He is also has the view that the breakdown of law and disorder is due to "woke" policies that have created an "immoral" society where anything goes. Immigration - many Americans feel that nothing is being done, to know about, deport, or monitor foreign criminals coming into the country. Some don't have papers, so they don't know who it is coming in.
Closer to home, these are issues many are worried about here. The Lies - successive governments lie. The Tories said that they would bring down immigration, build 50.hospitals etc. Then Labour were elected for a change, saying they wouldn't put up taxes for working people. That was another lie. They said they would tackle the people smugglers and gangs. Any evidence of this? Immigrants are still coming over on boats, many to their death. And taking away the winter fuel allowance for our pensioners, whilst immigrants continue to placed in 5 star hotels. If you have paid your taxes for 60 years, and are a British citizen, we will take away your fuel allowance at 80 years old. If you have just arrived on a small boat, welcome to the Savoi Hotel.
Many feel strongly about these issues,.it can't be denied. The more it isnt spoken about, the more it's denied, the more these people with these views are told to shut up, the more likely it is that we too will have a far right Farage government at the next election. I.am not saying it's a good thing, but I.understand why people feel that their genuine concerns are not being addressed.
And remember everyone, we have free speech (well do we??) and all of us are entitled to our opinions. The shut down of debate, hasn't been a good thing. Society is in more chaos then ever before.
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 13:24 - Jan 11 by Southamptonfan
I have an American friend, who voted for Trump. For contrast, I voted Labout in the last election here, but I haven't been impressed. I asked him why he voted for Trump, as he clearly controversial.
He and many Americans, do not like being told what to think and say. For example, he has no problem with a biological male calling himself Tracy and a she, wearing a dress if he likes, crack on, but he does have a problem with being told he must also call him she, must agree that he looks good in a dress, when he disagrees. Having to call a person with a beard and stubble a woman, is ridiculous he says and Trump supports people with this view. There is also chaos in terms of right and wrong, with men dressed as a woman walking into female toilets, because it's a grey area, when the vast majority think it shouldn't be. Again Trump supports the simple view, of men in men's toilets and women in women's. The vast majority think that there are two genders men and woman. But the vast majority are told to accept that its not true (when it is).
He is also has the view that the breakdown of law and disorder is due to "woke" policies that have created an "immoral" society where anything goes. Immigration - many Americans feel that nothing is being done, to know about, deport, or monitor foreign criminals coming into the country. Some don't have papers, so they don't know who it is coming in.
Closer to home, these are issues many are worried about here. The Lies - successive governments lie. The Tories said that they would bring down immigration, build 50.hospitals etc. Then Labour were elected for a change, saying they wouldn't put up taxes for working people. That was another lie. They said they would tackle the people smugglers and gangs. Any evidence of this? Immigrants are still coming over on boats, many to their death. And taking away the winter fuel allowance for our pensioners, whilst immigrants continue to placed in 5 star hotels. If you have paid your taxes for 60 years, and are a British citizen, we will take away your fuel allowance at 80 years old. If you have just arrived on a small boat, welcome to the Savoi Hotel.
Many feel strongly about these issues,.it can't be denied. The more it isnt spoken about, the more it's denied, the more these people with these views are told to shut up, the more likely it is that we too will have a far right Farage government at the next election. I.am not saying it's a good thing, but I.understand why people feel that their genuine concerns are not being addressed.
And remember everyone, we have free speech (well do we??) and all of us are entitled to our opinions. The shut down of debate, hasn't been a good thing. Society is in more chaos then ever before.
[Post edited 11 Jan 13:34]
Farage is not far right though right of centre. Far right is extremist.
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Are the days of "woke" ending? on 14:06 - Jan 11 with 1514 views
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 13:24 - Jan 11 by Southamptonfan
I have an American friend, who voted for Trump. For contrast, I voted Labout in the last election here, but I haven't been impressed. I asked him why he voted for Trump, as he clearly controversial.
He and many Americans, do not like being told what to think and say. For example, he has no problem with a biological male calling himself Tracy and a she, wearing a dress if he likes, crack on, but he does have a problem with being told he must also call him she, must agree that he looks good in a dress, when he disagrees. Having to call a person with a beard and stubble a woman, is ridiculous he says and Trump supports people with this view. There is also chaos in terms of right and wrong, with men dressed as a woman walking into female toilets, because it's a grey area, when the vast majority think it shouldn't be. Again Trump supports the simple view, of men in men's toilets and women in women's. The vast majority think that there are two genders men and woman. But the vast majority are told to accept that its not true (when it is).
He is also has the view that the breakdown of law and disorder is due to "woke" policies that have created an "immoral" society where anything goes. Immigration - many Americans feel that nothing is being done, to know about, deport, or monitor foreign criminals coming into the country. Some don't have papers, so they don't know who it is coming in.
Closer to home, these are issues many are worried about here. The Lies - successive governments lie. The Tories said that they would bring down immigration, build 50.hospitals etc. Then Labour were elected for a change, saying they wouldn't put up taxes for working people. That was another lie. They said they would tackle the people smugglers and gangs. Any evidence of this? Immigrants are still coming over on boats, many to their death. And taking away the winter fuel allowance for our pensioners, whilst immigrants continue to placed in 5 star hotels. If you have paid your taxes for 60 years, and are a British citizen, we will take away your fuel allowance at 80 years old. If you have just arrived on a small boat, welcome to the Savoi Hotel.
Many feel strongly about these issues,.it can't be denied. The more it isnt spoken about, the more it's denied, the more these people with these views are told to shut up, the more likely it is that we too will have a far right Farage government at the next election. I.am not saying it's a good thing, but I.understand why people feel that their genuine concerns are not being addressed.
And remember everyone, we have free speech (well do we??) and all of us are entitled to our opinions. The shut down of debate, hasn't been a good thing. Society is in more chaos then ever before.
[Post edited 11 Jan 13:34]
Haven't got time to pick over all of this but I wish people would stop spouting rubbish about immigrants being put up in 5 star hotels. It doesn't happen and has never happened.
If you really think it's true give a single example.
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 14:06 - Jan 11 by pjt50
Haven't got time to pick over all of this but I wish people would stop spouting rubbish about immigrants being put up in 5 star hotels. It doesn't happen and has never happened.
If you really think it's true give a single example.
Not 5 star, but here is a hotel chosen a few months ago. All food, expenses paid for the migrants, British bookings cancelled without notice.
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 13:24 - Jan 11 by Southamptonfan
I have an American friend, who voted for Trump. For contrast, I voted Labout in the last election here, but I haven't been impressed. I asked him why he voted for Trump, as he clearly controversial.
He and many Americans, do not like being told what to think and say. For example, he has no problem with a biological male calling himself Tracy and a she, wearing a dress if he likes, crack on, but he does have a problem with being told he must also call him she, must agree that he looks good in a dress, when he disagrees. Having to call a person with a beard and stubble a woman, is ridiculous he says and Trump supports people with this view. There is also chaos in terms of right and wrong, with men dressed as a woman walking into female toilets, because it's a grey area, when the vast majority think it shouldn't be. Again Trump supports the simple view, of men in men's toilets and women in women's. The vast majority think that there are two genders men and woman. But the vast majority are told to accept that its not true (when it is).
He is also has the view that the breakdown of law and disorder is due to "woke" policies that have created an "immoral" society where anything goes. Immigration - many Americans feel that nothing is being done, to know about, deport, or monitor foreign criminals coming into the country. Some don't have papers, so they don't know who it is coming in.
Closer to home, these are issues many are worried about here. The Lies - successive governments lie. The Tories said that they would bring down immigration, build 50.hospitals etc. Then Labour were elected for a change, saying they wouldn't put up taxes for working people. That was another lie. They said they would tackle the people smugglers and gangs. Any evidence of this? Immigrants are still coming over on boats, many to their death. And taking away the winter fuel allowance for our pensioners, whilst immigrants continue to placed in 5 star hotels. If you have paid your taxes for 60 years, and are a British citizen, we will take away your fuel allowance at 80 years old. If you have just arrived on a small boat, welcome to the Savoi Hotel.
Many feel strongly about these issues,.it can't be denied. The more it isnt spoken about, the more it's denied, the more these people with these views are told to shut up, the more likely it is that we too will have a far right Farage government at the next election. I.am not saying it's a good thing, but I.understand why people feel that their genuine concerns are not being addressed.
And remember everyone, we have free speech (well do we??) and all of us are entitled to our opinions. The shut down of debate, hasn't been a good thing. Society is in more chaos then ever before.
[Post edited 11 Jan 13:34]
Brilliant post.
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Are the days of "woke" ending? on 14:31 - Jan 11 with 1481 views
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 14:17 - Jan 11 by Southamptonfan
Not 5 star, but here is a hotel chosen a few months ago. All food, expenses paid for the migrants, British bookings cancelled without notice.
[Post edited 11 Jan 14:18]
When it was open as a hotel it was a 3 star. As far as I can see it's no longer operating as a hotel but it's been repurposed to house asylum seekers. So where's the 5 star luxury you mentioned?
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 14:31 - Jan 11 by pjt50
When it was open as a hotel it was a 3 star. As far as I can see it's no longer operating as a hotel but it's been repurposed to house asylum seekers. So where's the 5 star luxury you mentioned?
Whatever star it is, I am sure they will all have central heating this winter. Do you think it's unreasonable for British citizens who have paid taxes for 60 years, to think it's unfair that they go cold whilst unknown men, who have never paid into this country, from another country get it for free?
Woke is dead in the water at the moment, even Canada is going right wing which is why Turdeau is getting out, but I am sure it will get re-invented at a later date, as they do love to use the left/right paradigm to keep the people divided and the oligarchs hidden.
Real politics is up/down not left/right
I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.
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Are the days of "woke" ending? on 15:05 - Jan 11 with 1424 views
Whatever star it is, I am sure they will all have central heating this winter. Do you think it's unreasonable for British citizens who have paid taxes for 60 years, to think it's unfair that they go cold whilst unknown men, who have never paid into this country, from another country get it for free?
[Post edited 11 Jan 14:41]
A hotel's rating isn't defined by bricks and mortar. A 5 star hotel must offer things like gourmet dining, luxury spas, a butler service, premium toiletries, fresh flowers, etc, etc. Do you really think any of these are available to asylum seekers anywhere?
Otherwise maybe you could edit your earlier post to replace “5 star” with “repurposed 3 star” and “Savoi” (sic) with “Best Western”. Otherwise you're just repeating the sort of incendiary lies that caused the August riots.
At some point 'political correctness gone mad' transformed into 'woke' and in the process rather than just the extreme examples of anti-prejudice and diversity being criticised, the whole progressive agenda came under threat.
It was a clever move. 'Woke' is a handy punchy label which appeals to people who like things simple.
What is also not widely understood is that this whole anti-woke agenda is being pushed by a distinctly right-wing, reactionary special interest. People who prefer a more elitist, authoritarian agenda than a diverse, democratic, egalitarian one. Trump is not a man of the people, neither is Farage, they are simply selling snake oil to the people because they want to be in power. It's what all populists do.
And yes those people seem to be winning at the moment, but as long as democracy can survive, I think this will be a blip, an adjustment, and the fundamental forces which have tended societies towards liberalism and the rights of each individual to authentic self-expression regardless of sex, gender, race or age will win out in the end.
The world changes and evolves all the time you can either accept it or become some weird knobhead in need of therapy railing at it. The minute I started to worry about things beyond my control I think I would re-evaluate my life to see where it went wrong.
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Are the days of "woke" ending? on 10:56 - Jan 12 with 811 views
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 20:22 - Jan 11 by DorsetIan
At some point 'political correctness gone mad' transformed into 'woke' and in the process rather than just the extreme examples of anti-prejudice and diversity being criticised, the whole progressive agenda came under threat.
It was a clever move. 'Woke' is a handy punchy label which appeals to people who like things simple.
What is also not widely understood is that this whole anti-woke agenda is being pushed by a distinctly right-wing, reactionary special interest. People who prefer a more elitist, authoritarian agenda than a diverse, democratic, egalitarian one. Trump is not a man of the people, neither is Farage, they are simply selling snake oil to the people because they want to be in power. It's what all populists do.
And yes those people seem to be winning at the moment, but as long as democracy can survive, I think this will be a blip, an adjustment, and the fundamental forces which have tended societies towards liberalism and the rights of each individual to authentic self-expression regardless of sex, gender, race or age will win out in the end.
‘as long as democracy survives’ is an interesting point when the Labour Party are encouraging a restructuring of local councils and cancelling Hampshire County Council elections planned for this Spring. That is likely Labour’s response to the growing success of Reform.
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Are the days of "woke" ending? on 14:39 - Jan 12 with 696 views
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 20:22 - Jan 11 by DorsetIan
At some point 'political correctness gone mad' transformed into 'woke' and in the process rather than just the extreme examples of anti-prejudice and diversity being criticised, the whole progressive agenda came under threat.
It was a clever move. 'Woke' is a handy punchy label which appeals to people who like things simple.
What is also not widely understood is that this whole anti-woke agenda is being pushed by a distinctly right-wing, reactionary special interest. People who prefer a more elitist, authoritarian agenda than a diverse, democratic, egalitarian one. Trump is not a man of the people, neither is Farage, they are simply selling snake oil to the people because they want to be in power. It's what all populists do.
And yes those people seem to be winning at the moment, but as long as democracy can survive, I think this will be a blip, an adjustment, and the fundamental forces which have tended societies towards liberalism and the rights of each individual to authentic self-expression regardless of sex, gender, race or age will win out in the end.
Most politicians are snake oil salesman. Not many have any real conviction.
Sunak and Starmer are both snake oil salesmen. Both wanted power without really giving a care for the country.
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Are the days of "woke" ending? on 15:21 - Jan 12 with 653 views
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 20:22 - Jan 11 by DorsetIan
At some point 'political correctness gone mad' transformed into 'woke' and in the process rather than just the extreme examples of anti-prejudice and diversity being criticised, the whole progressive agenda came under threat.
It was a clever move. 'Woke' is a handy punchy label which appeals to people who like things simple.
What is also not widely understood is that this whole anti-woke agenda is being pushed by a distinctly right-wing, reactionary special interest. People who prefer a more elitist, authoritarian agenda than a diverse, democratic, egalitarian one. Trump is not a man of the people, neither is Farage, they are simply selling snake oil to the people because they want to be in power. It's what all populists do.
And yes those people seem to be winning at the moment, but as long as democracy can survive, I think this will be a blip, an adjustment, and the fundamental forces which have tended societies towards liberalism and the rights of each individual to authentic self-expression regardless of sex, gender, race or age will win out in the end.
" The anti-woke agenda is being pushed by right wing special interest"
Can you explain this comment Ian?
From what I see most people just want their country back, not the socially engineered country of pronouns, drag queens reading to kids in libraries and never ending Gay pride promotion to name but a few.
"People who prefer a more elitest, authoritarian agenda than a ... democratic one"
Can you explain this comment too?
If you believe in democracy then sometimes the people choose a right wing government, yes?
Is right wing more authoritarian than left wing is like asking is fascism worse than communism isn't it?
The same oligarchs behind left and right, designed to divide and conquer and keep us squabbling while they take more and more money and freedom from us. They just know now that they need to reign in the wokery pokery as people have been pushed far enough with it
I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.
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Are the days of "woke" ending? on 20:14 - Jan 12 with 501 views
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 15:49 - Jan 12 by Jellybaby
" The anti-woke agenda is being pushed by right wing special interest"
Can you explain this comment Ian?
From what I see most people just want their country back, not the socially engineered country of pronouns, drag queens reading to kids in libraries and never ending Gay pride promotion to name but a few.
"People who prefer a more elitest, authoritarian agenda than a ... democratic one"
Can you explain this comment too?
If you believe in democracy then sometimes the people choose a right wing government, yes?
Is right wing more authoritarian than left wing is like asking is fascism worse than communism isn't it?
The same oligarchs behind left and right, designed to divide and conquer and keep us squabbling while they take more and more money and freedom from us. They just know now that they need to reign in the wokery pokery as people have been pushed far enough with it
Blokes in dresses telling fairy stories to kids, some of whom they later is abuse has been an issue here for a while. I guess you aren't talking about the church though?
The whole Woke thing.has been blown out of all proportion. It is pretty easy to ignore stuff you don't want to participate in (Pride, marches, petitions or whatever), and also not be offended by the things you are told we are offended by. Far less hassle to just try and get on with people, and judge individuals on their actions
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Are the days of "woke" ending? on 21:45 - Jan 12 with 431 views
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 15:49 - Jan 12 by Jellybaby
" The anti-woke agenda is being pushed by right wing special interest"
Can you explain this comment Ian?
From what I see most people just want their country back, not the socially engineered country of pronouns, drag queens reading to kids in libraries and never ending Gay pride promotion to name but a few.
"People who prefer a more elitest, authoritarian agenda than a ... democratic one"
Can you explain this comment too?
If you believe in democracy then sometimes the people choose a right wing government, yes?
Is right wing more authoritarian than left wing is like asking is fascism worse than communism isn't it?
The same oligarchs behind left and right, designed to divide and conquer and keep us squabbling while they take more and more money and freedom from us. They just know now that they need to reign in the wokery pokery as people have been pushed far enough with it
First point. That's just my feel for it.
Second point. So much of this is driven from the US. Trump's attempt at a coup, his disregard for the rule of law and his obvious attraction to Putin and other depots is sufficient for me. You know he just wants to be king and, more worryingly, so do many of the fools who support him.
Yes, sometimes people choose a right wing government and then that government suspends the constitution and replaces it with a dictatorship.
'never ending Gay pride promotion'. I don't know what it's like down your way, but my experience is that Gay pride is once a year. Is that what you mean my 'never ending'? Was one year enough? Does the same apply to Christmas and Easter?
How does wokery pokery benefit the ruling oligarchs?
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 21:54 - Jan 12 by DorsetIan
First point. That's just my feel for it.
Second point. So much of this is driven from the US. Trump's attempt at a coup, his disregard for the rule of law and his obvious attraction to Putin and other depots is sufficient for me. You know he just wants to be king and, more worryingly, so do many of the fools who support him.
Yes, sometimes people choose a right wing government and then that government suspends the constitution and replaces it with a dictatorship.
'never ending Gay pride promotion'. I don't know what it's like down your way, but my experience is that Gay pride is once a year. Is that what you mean my 'never ending'? Was one year enough? Does the same apply to Christmas and Easter?
How does wokery pokery benefit the ruling oligarchs?
Thank you for the answers Ian.
I am always amused at how much of a boogeyman Trump is to the chattering classes in the UK. Their own governments can steal their money and their culture and sometimes literally get away with murder and yet everything is Trump's fault and he hasn't even been involved in a war, it's utterly baffling!
I like the idea of Trump being attracted to depots, B&Q maybe?
There is plenty of left wing militancy, they are all on the same circle of power, I don't see a case for one being more authoritarian than the other and communism is way more prevalent.
I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.
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Are the days of "woke" ending? on 13:40 - Jan 13 with 152 views
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 13:15 - Jan 13 by Jellybaby
Thank you for the answers Ian.
I am always amused at how much of a boogeyman Trump is to the chattering classes in the UK. Their own governments can steal their money and their culture and sometimes literally get away with murder and yet everything is Trump's fault and he hasn't even been involved in a war, it's utterly baffling!
I like the idea of Trump being attracted to depots, B&Q maybe?
There is plenty of left wing militancy, they are all on the same circle of power, I don't see a case for one being more authoritarian than the other and communism is way more prevalent.
He's not a 'bogeyman'. But he neither is he a democrat nor interested in the the citizens of the US. He is interested in himself and maintaining his ego. Like so many warehouses before him.
You do not believe in the principles of democracy, liberalism or the rule of law, so you don't care that he does not play by the rules. I do. If I've been conned by the clever lizards, so be it.
I thought that the US constitution would be more robust than that of the Weimar republic, but I am no longer so sure.
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 13:40 - Jan 13 by DorsetIan
He's not a 'bogeyman'. But he neither is he a democrat nor interested in the the citizens of the US. He is interested in himself and maintaining his ego. Like so many warehouses before him.
You do not believe in the principles of democracy, liberalism or the rule of law, so you don't care that he does not play by the rules. I do. If I've been conned by the clever lizards, so be it.
I thought that the US constitution would be more robust than that of the Weimar republic, but I am no longer so sure.
You misrepresent me with your second paragraph. The principles of democracy and liberalism are great - they are just in the hands of self seeking billionaires and then democracy becomes the perfect cover for oligarchy which wants to put all the money and power back in to the hands of elites, which is happening before our eyes.
I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.
0
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 15:46 - Jan 13 with 89 views
Are the days of "woke" ending? on 14:00 - Jan 13 by Jellybaby
You misrepresent me with your second paragraph. The principles of democracy and liberalism are great - they are just in the hands of self seeking billionaires and then democracy becomes the perfect cover for oligarchy which wants to put all the money and power back in to the hands of elites, which is happening before our eyes.
No, this ignores the history.
The principles of democracy and liberalism provided the moral justification and energy for the liberation of power away from hereditary monarchs and other autocrats and (more) into the hands of the people. Those principles then found concrete form in the constitutions and laws of those democracies and reflected too in such ideals of an independent judiciary and a free press.
These things are not a cover for oligarchs to take power. You can tell that the oligarchs are trying to take power when they try to undermine them and...
commit crimes interfere in elections try to side-step constitutions publicly pressurise judges; and claim that the truths revealed by the free press are 'fake news'.
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