| Willock? 23:21 - Nov 27 with 9608 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
Did anyone else notice that Willock was laughing and joking with the QPR coaches at the end? I just don't understand some footballers mentality.
Bet that goes down well with the Cardiff massive. |  | | |  |
| Willock? on 13:25 - Nov 28 with 3173 views | Myke |
| Willock? on 12:02 - Nov 28 by LazyFan |
I mentioned on one of the other threads, that Celar would have a good game. I wanna see it against Watford.
But, while he scored a great first goal out of nothing (which I already identified he could do in previous threads), his link play was actually terrible. We really struggled to get out of our half as he could not hold it up. Playing one up front, that person needs to hold onto the ball so, we can get out of our half. |
Not disputing that areas of Celar's game needs work- not least his hold up play (although tbf that's not his natural game). What I said was his best game in a QPR shirt which I think is indisputable. My real point though it was the wrong thread to be having a dig at him | | | |
| Willock? on 13:27 - Nov 28 with 3153 views | sprocket |
I find it a little sad, disappointing, perplexing etc...
We know he has talent but the edge he had looks like it's gone either because of injury or confidence or lack of interest or whatever but remembering those few months where he was effectively unplayable at this level to where he is now. | | | |
| Willock? on 14:08 - Nov 28 with 3026 views | sevenhoop |
| Willock? on 00:36 - Nov 28 by Northernr |
Mercenary.
Goes wherever the short term money is highest, wherever his dad tells him, whatever that means for his career. |
This.
I would hate to see this from one of our players. Gives off the impression of not giving a shit. Probably not just an "impression" either, just doesn't.
What a waste of a very good talent. |  | | |
| Willock? on 17:05 - Nov 28 with 2805 views | Paddyhoops |
| Willock? on 09:59 - Nov 28 by golborne |
Appreciate we have 3 key injuries, but he’s the biggest difference between us in H2 last season vs this. His ability to keep us up the pitch when we need to go more direct can’t be underestimated.
It moves the whole team up the pitch, and when it’s more urgent he has the ability to go it alone.
I really don’t understand the hatchet many on here carry for him. He had a really bad injury that wasn’t being managed properly for a long period, especially during the Beale era. Ultimately, it just prolonged the issues. All this nonsense of calling it in along with the so called glass salter was embarrassing to read. Under Marti’s team they were our best 2, and most important players last season. Hands down.
Was gutted we couldn’t work out a deal with him, but we don’t actually know what that deal was, nor whether Cardiff are paying over the league odds for an attacking player with his known ability and stats.
Personally, I’ve been secretly hoping he doesn’t settle down there and ends up back here on loan. I’d have him back in a heartbeat |
We all feel a bit a let down when a Player refuses to sign a contract.
However we in my opinion have seen and got the best out of him .
Saito more than makes up for him as I’m sure will Dembele. | | | |
| Willock? on 17:56 - Nov 28 with 2596 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Willock? on 17:05 - Nov 28 by Paddyhoops |
We all feel a bit a let down when a Player refuses to sign a contract.
However we in my opinion have seen and got the best out of him .
Saito more than makes up for him as I’m sure will Dembele. |
I agree, though also a little sadly. (I'm a 'both-and' rather than 'either-or' kind of man.) |  |
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| Willock? on 18:47 - Nov 28 with 2510 views | WestonsuperR |
Thoroughly enjoyed the Willock, Willock what’s the score chants at the end, great stuff.
Offered a contract but made the decision to go to a rival club, at times his attitude when at Rangers was questionable. Looking at his performance last night and that he can’t get in the Cardiff side I’d say good riddance. |  | | |
| Willock? on 18:52 - Nov 28 with 2482 views | NorthantsHoop |
| Willock? on 18:47 - Nov 28 by WestonsuperR |
Thoroughly enjoyed the Willock, Willock what’s the score chants at the end, great stuff.
Offered a contract but made the decision to go to a rival club, at times his attitude when at Rangers was questionable. Looking at his performance last night and that he can’t get in the Cardiff side I’d say good riddance. |
Exactly, he's no Eze is he! |  | | |
| Willock? on 21:00 - Nov 28 with 2252 views | BlackCrowe |
| Willock? on 18:52 - Nov 28 by NorthantsHoop |
Exactly, he's no Eze is he! |
There was a 12+ month period during end of lockdown and into unlock where i thought we had a genuine replacement for Ebs. And then he got injured i think and came back tentative and then his heart wasn't in it. And still isn't based on yesterday and what Cardiff fans on the messageboards say about him. |  |
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| Willock? on 08:55 - Nov 29 with 2018 views | gazza1 |
He was pretty average to poor when he arrived here, I recall commenting about him. He then had a good season and done some good things. Reverted back very quickly to being a very average player. Injured so much it was farcical, never sure that he had a good attitude (Unlike players like Field)........do not think that he is a big loss overall. | | | |
| Willock? on 11:27 - Nov 29 with 1897 views | Myke |
Illy and Willi at their best were unplayable at this level - but it was a very brief window. | | | |
| Willock? on 11:29 - Nov 29 with 1888 views | joe90 |
Best player we've had since Eze but his progress was sadly halted by his injuries. Even when he came back he was still our best player.
I have no issue with him going to Cardiff. He's a pro, it's what they do, play for money. As has already been said, we got the best out of him. |  | | |
| Willock? on 11:46 - Nov 29 with 1856 views | TK1 |
| Willock? on 00:36 - Nov 28 by Northernr |
Mercenary.
Goes wherever the short term money is highest, wherever his dad tells him, whatever that means for his career. |
Harsh! All players are mercenaries: you'd struggle to pick an eleven from the top two divisions of players who aren't mercenaries.
Also "whatever that means for his career". He came to QPR for his career, to play regularly at a decent level. It was mutually beneficial for 18 months or so, but there's no question QPR's management of his body effectively broke his career. Warburton played him at Forest when he was injured and snapped his hamstring. Beale played him too often for too long when he wasn't properly recovered (but still winning games on his own, ie Millwall and Sheff U). His career will never be the same because of QPR's mismanagement of him.
Then we had the whole Ainsworth farrago of sticking him on at 93 min of games, playing Kelman instead, etc. What loyalty should he (or a concerned Dad?) have to QPR?
And going to Cardiff for a higher wage rather than staying at QPR: I mean, it's much of muchness, career-wise. Going to Saudi is mercenary. Going to Cardiff, a club who finished six places higher - not really a sell-out, is it? | | | |
| Willock? on 12:04 - Nov 29 with 1782 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Willock? on 11:29 - Nov 29 by joe90 |
Best player we've had since Eze but his progress was sadly halted by his injuries. Even when he came back he was still our best player.
I have no issue with him going to Cardiff. He's a pro, it's what they do, play for money. As has already been said, we got the best out of him. |
Best player since Eze? Not a chance. Had a short period of greatness but was average before and after. |  | | |
| Willock? on 12:19 - Nov 29 with 1712 views | joe90 |
| Willock? on 12:04 - Nov 29 by Ned_Kennedys |
Best player since Eze? Not a chance. Had a short period of greatness but was average before and after. |
Who's been better? | | | |
| Willock? on 12:53 - Nov 29 with 1622 views | numptydumpty |
| Willock? on 12:19 - Nov 29 by joe90 |
Who's been better? |
Chair Cook Field...
Dykes !!!! 🤣 |  |
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| Willock? on 13:00 - Nov 29 with 1606 views | joe90 |
| Willock? on 12:53 - Nov 29 by numptydumpty |
Chair Cook Field...
Dykes !!!! 🤣 |
I think we can agree to disagree on that. | | | |
| Willock? on 13:58 - Nov 29 with 1457 views | Northernr |
| Willock? on 11:46 - Nov 29 by TK1 |
Harsh! All players are mercenaries: you'd struggle to pick an eleven from the top two divisions of players who aren't mercenaries.
Also "whatever that means for his career". He came to QPR for his career, to play regularly at a decent level. It was mutually beneficial for 18 months or so, but there's no question QPR's management of his body effectively broke his career. Warburton played him at Forest when he was injured and snapped his hamstring. Beale played him too often for too long when he wasn't properly recovered (but still winning games on his own, ie Millwall and Sheff U). His career will never be the same because of QPR's mismanagement of him.
Then we had the whole Ainsworth farrago of sticking him on at 93 min of games, playing Kelman instead, etc. What loyalty should he (or a concerned Dad?) have to QPR?
And going to Cardiff for a higher wage rather than staying at QPR: I mean, it's much of muchness, career-wise. Going to Saudi is mercenary. Going to Cardiff, a club who finished six places higher - not really a sell-out, is it? |
As ever mate, it's a post to provoke some thought.
I agree with you on some of it. Particularly the mishandling of his injuries. For Beale, in particular, to admit in a fan meeting that he'd played him earlier than he should for longer than he should, against the opinion of the medical teams, because "we needed to get this thing going" (i.e. Beale needed some results for his CV) was appalling.
Completely agree on all footballers move for money, no loyalty, everybody is mercenary etc. Where I diverge is we don't have to like that. Don't expect me to clap you on the back and say 'that's the game'. If we're boiling the job of the footballer down to you go wherever the most money is, then let's boil the job of the football supporter down as well. My loyalty is to QPR, you walk out on them then I'll boo you, shout stuff at you, rejoice when we beat you. Similarly, if you are an Alan McDonald type who sticks around for life, you can expect my adulation in return. That's our job, just as that's theirs.
Ainsworth... this is where it gets tricky because obviously there were things said off mic around that time. IMO Ainsworth was completely within his rights, and right, to treat him the way he did - particularly when you're trying to foster dressing room spirit, all in it together, no big time Charlies, complete buy in. When Willock did play for Aisnworth, he was mostly fcking awful - I remember a particularly dire display against Coventry where he cost us a goal doing fancy step overs and giving the ball away.
Cardiff... it's a sideways move to a club with no prospects, which he didn't want to move, in a part of the world he didn't want to move to. He has had better opportunities than that over the years, multiple better opportunities, and priced his wage so high that they all fell by the wayside so that in the end he had to take whatever was left and it was them. It's not a well managed career is it, let's be honest? And when you look at what happened to the third Willock brother... |  | | |
| Willock? on 15:02 - Nov 29 with 1297 views | TheChef |
| Willock? on 11:46 - Nov 29 by TK1 |
Harsh! All players are mercenaries: you'd struggle to pick an eleven from the top two divisions of players who aren't mercenaries.
Also "whatever that means for his career". He came to QPR for his career, to play regularly at a decent level. It was mutually beneficial for 18 months or so, but there's no question QPR's management of his body effectively broke his career. Warburton played him at Forest when he was injured and snapped his hamstring. Beale played him too often for too long when he wasn't properly recovered (but still winning games on his own, ie Millwall and Sheff U). His career will never be the same because of QPR's mismanagement of him.
Then we had the whole Ainsworth farrago of sticking him on at 93 min of games, playing Kelman instead, etc. What loyalty should he (or a concerned Dad?) have to QPR?
And going to Cardiff for a higher wage rather than staying at QPR: I mean, it's much of muchness, career-wise. Going to Saudi is mercenary. Going to Cardiff, a club who finished six places higher - not really a sell-out, is it? |
Was he not fully fit when he got injured at Forest? I didn't think that was the case, just that he was unlucky (or rather, got targeted by the Forest players). |  |
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| Willock? on 15:08 - Nov 29 with 1268 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Willock? on 12:19 - Nov 29 by joe90 |
Who's been better? |
Definitely Chair and Cook, probably Field. JCS better but has a similar injury record.
Would say Saito is potentially better than Willock as well based on his start with us. Consistent and fit. | | | |
| Willock? on 15:28 - Nov 29 with 1199 views | joe90 |
| Willock? on 15:08 - Nov 29 by Ned_Kennedys |
Definitely Chair and Cook, probably Field. JCS better but has a similar injury record.
Would say Saito is potentially better than Willock as well based on his start with us. Consistent and fit. |
If you compare the stats between Willock and Chair, there's not much between them.
Willock - 20 goals and 22 assists in 140 games.
Chair - 34 goals and 36 assists in 230 games.
Chris actually has a higher 'player score' on who scored - 86.7% vs 82.6%. IMO I think Willock was a better player. I also think, had he not got injured would have surpassed Chair. I can't prove that, but that's my view based on the stats and what I've seen at games. There is a bit of bias on my part, as good as Chair is, I just don't like his style of play. I always thought Willock was technically superior and was better to watch on the ball.
All opinions, and I get why some are salty about him leaving.
RE: Saito, I do like him. Definitely one of our better signings, but too soon to tell how he will progress. He is playing in a worse side than Willock did, which counts in his favour. [Post edited 29 Nov 15:32]
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| Willock? on 15:33 - Nov 29 with 1164 views | kensalriser |
| Willock? on 15:28 - Nov 29 by joe90 |
If you compare the stats between Willock and Chair, there's not much between them.
Willock - 20 goals and 22 assists in 140 games.
Chair - 34 goals and 36 assists in 230 games.
Chris actually has a higher 'player score' on who scored - 86.7% vs 82.6%. IMO I think Willock was a better player. I also think, had he not got injured would have surpassed Chair. I can't prove that, but that's my view based on the stats and what I've seen at games. There is a bit of bias on my part, as good as Chair is, I just don't like his style of play. I always thought Willock was technically superior and was better to watch on the ball.
All opinions, and I get why some are salty about him leaving.
RE: Saito, I do like him. Definitely one of our better signings, but too soon to tell how he will progress. He is playing in a worse side than Willock did, which counts in his favour. [Post edited 29 Nov 15:32]
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Willock's better in theory, Chair's better in practice. |  |
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| Willock? on 16:11 - Nov 29 with 1015 views | PhilmyRs |
| Willock? on 13:58 - Nov 29 by Northernr |
As ever mate, it's a post to provoke some thought.
I agree with you on some of it. Particularly the mishandling of his injuries. For Beale, in particular, to admit in a fan meeting that he'd played him earlier than he should for longer than he should, against the opinion of the medical teams, because "we needed to get this thing going" (i.e. Beale needed some results for his CV) was appalling.
Completely agree on all footballers move for money, no loyalty, everybody is mercenary etc. Where I diverge is we don't have to like that. Don't expect me to clap you on the back and say 'that's the game'. If we're boiling the job of the footballer down to you go wherever the most money is, then let's boil the job of the football supporter down as well. My loyalty is to QPR, you walk out on them then I'll boo you, shout stuff at you, rejoice when we beat you. Similarly, if you are an Alan McDonald type who sticks around for life, you can expect my adulation in return. That's our job, just as that's theirs.
Ainsworth... this is where it gets tricky because obviously there were things said off mic around that time. IMO Ainsworth was completely within his rights, and right, to treat him the way he did - particularly when you're trying to foster dressing room spirit, all in it together, no big time Charlies, complete buy in. When Willock did play for Aisnworth, he was mostly fcking awful - I remember a particularly dire display against Coventry where he cost us a goal doing fancy step overs and giving the ball away.
Cardiff... it's a sideways move to a club with no prospects, which he didn't want to move, in a part of the world he didn't want to move to. He has had better opportunities than that over the years, multiple better opportunities, and priced his wage so high that they all fell by the wayside so that in the end he had to take whatever was left and it was them. It's not a well managed career is it, let's be honest? And when you look at what happened to the third Willock brother... |
The Ainsworth thing I don't get, it annoys me when people pick out some of the "dire displays" stuff and throw it at Willock and why Ainsworth didn't use him. Was at that Cov game, and think Willock came on as a sub from memory, did a mistake trying to make something happen in one of the worst performances of the season, and people start using it as material to support Ainsworth and his actions. What about Ainsworth's failure to use Willock at all? bringing him on in games that were already over for a minute or two at the end?
Those decisions of Ainsworth made me, and probably others think Willock was just waiting for his contract to expire and didn't care about the team, wouldn't risk anything (injury wise) to help in our survival and would just be half arsed if played...how wrong we were. The new manager came in and restored Willock to the team and Willock started to perform and add value, and in my opinion was a major reason we stayed up. He wasn't vintage Willock, but he worked hard and put in some decent performances - Preston away springs to my mind where it certainly wasn't a performance of a player not looking to help the team.
So, you may look it as Ainsworth being absolutely right in his management of Willock, I look at it as a failure to utilise a key resource, which was proven to be the case when Marti arrived and got a tune out of him. | | | |
| Willock? on 16:25 - Nov 29 with 984 views | Northernr |
| Willock? on 16:11 - Nov 29 by PhilmyRs |
The Ainsworth thing I don't get, it annoys me when people pick out some of the "dire displays" stuff and throw it at Willock and why Ainsworth didn't use him. Was at that Cov game, and think Willock came on as a sub from memory, did a mistake trying to make something happen in one of the worst performances of the season, and people start using it as material to support Ainsworth and his actions. What about Ainsworth's failure to use Willock at all? bringing him on in games that were already over for a minute or two at the end?
Those decisions of Ainsworth made me, and probably others think Willock was just waiting for his contract to expire and didn't care about the team, wouldn't risk anything (injury wise) to help in our survival and would just be half arsed if played...how wrong we were. The new manager came in and restored Willock to the team and Willock started to perform and add value, and in my opinion was a major reason we stayed up. He wasn't vintage Willock, but he worked hard and put in some decent performances - Preston away springs to my mind where it certainly wasn't a performance of a player not looking to help the team.
So, you may look it as Ainsworth being absolutely right in his management of Willock, I look at it as a failure to utilise a key resource, which was proven to be the case when Marti arrived and got a tune out of him. |
You're maybe right.
I personally think he was phoning it in at that stage.
It's probably more a discussion for over a beer than on here tbh. | | | |
| Willock? on 17:22 - Nov 29 with 851 views | PhilmyRs |
| Willock? on 16:25 - Nov 29 by Northernr |
You're maybe right.
I personally think he was phoning it in at that stage.
It's probably more a discussion for over a beer than on here tbh. |
Agreed.
Les or Christian? Is Madsen a classy act that will come good? Saito or Chair? Is Sam Field really that good? We won’t ever progress with Jimmy D at right back? Could Frey and Celar play together? I’ve seen better semi-pros then Paul Smyth, but he’s quick? What was the point of Niko Hamalainen…
Yep, reckon although the football’s rubbish, there’s quite a few things that would be better discussed over a beer with this Rangers side.
Talking of which, that's me done for the day, time for the pub. | | | |
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