| Wigan into administration 12:37 - Jul 1 with 28546 views | BrianWilliamsBeard |
I presume that will be minus 12 points. |  | | |  |
| Wigan into administration on 15:49 - Jul 3 with 3142 views | MickS |
Prior to today, I thought they were in with a chance of surviving as they were playing so well. If this is true, they are surely fecked because the life has been sucked from the club. [Post edited 3 Jul 2020 15:49]
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| Wigan into administration on 15:54 - Jul 3 with 3112 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Wigan into administration on 15:40 - Jul 3 by qprxtc |
‘Tis true Brian. But this is all getting so complicated and circuitous that it makes my head spin. Don’t know how Whelan thought it was a good idea for the club he loves.
Should this happen to Rangers I’m not sure how I’d react. I promised myself years ago that should we ever go back to rattling buckets outside the ground to save the club I’d give up. I spend a ton of my yearly wage at QPR and way too much emotional energy. Then I have to chuck some shrapnel into a bucket because they misused the money I gave them. Bowlocks to that.
We could have far, far worse owners than we have now. Who knows what we’ll get in the future.
Most football authorities seem to be either totally corrupt or utterly ineffectual or both. The Premier League holds the whole sport to ransom in this country and just rips the joy out of supporting a team like Rangers.
Its grim all round. Only alcohol can save us now. |
"‘Tis true Brian. But this is all getting so complicated and circuitous that it makes my head spin. Don’t know how Whelan thought it was a good idea for the club he loves."
I've been thinking about Dave Whelan today. It's a tough business owning your favourite club. You have to run them well but also have to sell them well.
I know nothing about him, don't even know if he's still above ground, but I was thinking about him anyway. |  |
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| Wigan into administration on 16:00 - Jul 3 with 3058 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Wigan into administration on 15:54 - Jul 3 by BrianMcCarthy |
"‘Tis true Brian. But this is all getting so complicated and circuitous that it makes my head spin. Don’t know how Whelan thought it was a good idea for the club he loves."
I've been thinking about Dave Whelan today. It's a tough business owning your favourite club. You have to run them well but also have to sell them well.
I know nothing about him, don't even know if he's still above ground, but I was thinking about him anyway. |
Yeah still around but 83
Speaking about it here
https://www.bt.com/sport/news/no-promises-from-dave-whelan-as-he-looks-to-help-w [Post edited 3 Jul 2020 16:00]
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| Wigan into administration on 16:15 - Jul 3 with 3047 views | LongsufferingR |
| Wigan into administration on 15:07 - Jul 3 by Northernr |
There seems to be a very real suggestion now that the chairman has tried to cover the losses he was making by placing a massive wager on the club to go down, and has then been spooked by the run of form into deliberately getting them docked 12 points to try and make it happen. |
Well they have a very real chance of finishing 13 points clear of the drop zone, so that would fk his bet up! Let's hope for that outcome as long as it's not at our expense. |  | | |
| Wigan into administration on 16:37 - Jul 3 with 2981 views | Hunterhoop |
| Wigan into administration on 15:16 - Jul 3 by Mistication92 |
When I worked at a bookies, standard practice was that any reasonably large bet would be called through before being accepted. Why do these Far East betting places appear happy to take such huge wagers? If someone decides to put millions (and you presume it's millions to cover the Wigan losses) on them going down, why don't any alarm bells ring?! |
All depends on their total liabilities and liquidity. The loss they make on paying out this bet may be more than offset by the book they have today on the same market. Some dodgy bookies may also take a view on the liabilities of their entire book, and albeit risky, take the bet. Bookies are just like traders and investment bankers; it is all calculated gambles backed up by highly complex algorithms that are meant to guarantee profit.
A big bet on the 4.20 handicap at Plumpton screams alarm bells and may mean their liability on one horse is too great for the market so they reject the bet. A large value bet in a huge value market, at short odds...they may work out the market still makes a profit even if they take the bet on and lose, and as bookies (I.e.) layers, they take it on.
There’s also the more worrying element that i’m sure some of these dodgy bookies in Asia have their own illegal means of ensuring, or at least trying to influence, the outcome of events they have large liabilities on. Not that i’m alleging anything, but I wonder if any of the Wigan players have been approached with some additional incentives...or even some other clubs approached with the offer of incentives to go down so Wigan stay up. |  | | |
| Wigan into administration on 17:26 - Jul 3 with 2899 views | johnhoop |
If the new owners passed a “fit and proper owners test” then the Football League isn’t a fit and proper organization. Wigan have been preyed on by criminals and then get penalized by the FL for it.
And the irony is that if the 12 point deduction does send them down the low-life who organized it will get exactly what he was angling for. | | | |
| Wigan into administration on 07:51 - Jul 4 with 2638 views | Toast_R |
I see Gary Lineker has re-tweeted the Wigan betting scandal theory thread on Twitter now. Gaining some momentum.
If this turns out to be true, surely the EFL in it's current guise has no future?
If it isn't true the EFL surely should come under huge scrutiny about how they are allowing clubs and community assets to be bought up by people who cannot afford to run them.
There should be mass protests from all football fans about this. It's a pity there are no fans allowed in stadiums because this should be everywhere. [Post edited 4 Jul 2020 7:52]
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| Wigan into administration on 08:25 - Jul 4 with 2581 views | stevec |
It might be an idea if the likes of Gary Lineker concentrated on the scandal of players wages being the actual reason why so many clubs like Wigan are on the brink of going bust.
Still, much more fun speculating about a bet in the Philippines. |  | | |
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| Wigan into administration on 08:27 - Jul 4 with 2571 views | switchingcode |
| Wigan into administration on 07:51 - Jul 4 by Toast_R |
I see Gary Lineker has re-tweeted the Wigan betting scandal theory thread on Twitter now. Gaining some momentum.
If this turns out to be true, surely the EFL in it's current guise has no future?
If it isn't true the EFL surely should come under huge scrutiny about how they are allowing clubs and community assets to be bought up by people who cannot afford to run them.
There should be mass protests from all football fans about this. It's a pity there are no fans allowed in stadiums because this should be everywhere. [Post edited 4 Jul 2020 7:52]
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Think the betting theory is a bit of a side show in the grand scheme of things who’s going to take a massive bet of millions on a championship side getting relegated without raising alarm bells.We are led to believe Wigan is a well run club and would lose 6 mill for starters if relegated from EFL TV monies.Think there is the usual dodgy dealings behind the scenes that the EFL get hoodwinked everytime and it’s about time they were held account of their incompetence and inconsistency of the years. | | | |
| Wigan into administration on 09:47 - Jul 4 with 2479 views | Toast_R |
| Wigan into administration on 08:25 - Jul 4 by stevec |
It might be an idea if the likes of Gary Lineker concentrated on the scandal of players wages being the actual reason why so many clubs like Wigan are on the brink of going bust.
Still, much more fun speculating about a bet in the Philippines. |
Well, yes and no. The clubs don't have to offer players the wages they do. If you can't afford to pay someone what you have agreed, then that's pretty shoddy business management. | | | |
| Wigan into administration on 10:33 - Jul 4 with 2424 views | LongsufferingR |
| Wigan into administration on 16:37 - Jul 3 by Hunterhoop |
All depends on their total liabilities and liquidity. The loss they make on paying out this bet may be more than offset by the book they have today on the same market. Some dodgy bookies may also take a view on the liabilities of their entire book, and albeit risky, take the bet. Bookies are just like traders and investment bankers; it is all calculated gambles backed up by highly complex algorithms that are meant to guarantee profit.
A big bet on the 4.20 handicap at Plumpton screams alarm bells and may mean their liability on one horse is too great for the market so they reject the bet. A large value bet in a huge value market, at short odds...they may work out the market still makes a profit even if they take the bet on and lose, and as bookies (I.e.) layers, they take it on.
There’s also the more worrying element that i’m sure some of these dodgy bookies in Asia have their own illegal means of ensuring, or at least trying to influence, the outcome of events they have large liabilities on. Not that i’m alleging anything, but I wonder if any of the Wigan players have been approached with some additional incentives...or even some other clubs approached with the offer of incentives to go down so Wigan stay up. |
Two points here. First, surely everyone remembers the floodlight shenanigans a few years ago when a Far East syndicate had paid off people to cause floodlight failure in top flight games when the score was in their favour? Far East bookies would pay out on the score at the time the game was abandoned.
Second, if any bribes were paid to Wigan players to throw games, they obviously didn't follow the instructions! | | | |
| Wigan into administration on 10:37 - Jul 4 with 2402 views | Hunterhoop |
| Wigan into administration on 10:33 - Jul 4 by LongsufferingR |
Two points here. First, surely everyone remembers the floodlight shenanigans a few years ago when a Far East syndicate had paid off people to cause floodlight failure in top flight games when the score was in their favour? Far East bookies would pay out on the score at the time the game was abandoned.
Second, if any bribes were paid to Wigan players to throw games, they obviously didn't follow the instructions! |
You’ve misunderstood my post with that second point.
The bookie wants Wigan to survive; they have laid a bet on them to go down. The chairman/ex-chairman placed the bet on them to go down.
They may have just taken the bet having reviewed their book and liabilities...however, as you evidence in your first point, they may well also be trying to influence the outcome by paying the players bonuses to stay up (remarkable improvement in performance) or investing in clubs who could go down in their place...
Just speculating... | | | |
| Wigan into administration on 11:34 - Jul 4 with 2321 views | qprd |
| Wigan into administration on 08:25 - Jul 4 by stevec |
It might be an idea if the likes of Gary Lineker concentrated on the scandal of players wages being the actual reason why so many clubs like Wigan are on the brink of going bust.
Still, much more fun speculating about a bet in the Philippines. |
Everyone knows that player wages are too high
Do you genuinely believe that there isn’t something beyond wages here? The owners bought the club a few weeks ago. all the wages are subject to fixed contracts, so the owners knew all the liabilities when they bought the club.
As for the speculation.... I mean, it comes from a direct quote from the chairman of the efl......
The contrarian opinion is pretty hard to justify in this case | | | |
| Wigan into administration on 11:54 - Jul 4 with 2291 views | OldPedro |
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| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| Wigan into administration on 12:15 - Jul 4 with 2252 views | RangersDave |
Worth remembering this is Hong kong we are talking about, corruption, theft, lies and death are common place.
Gangs run most of the place, and take a cut.
For instance, most factories and offices have a an office 'watchman', he sits there dayin day out, computer at his side watching the comings and go'ings, e-mails, banking transactions, setting prices to companies from the west to 'pick up a little extra' than is demanded by his overlords.
Seen it, myself. never introduced to him ever, but i knew everyone from the CEO downwards, and that chap was never alluded to or spoken about.
It's rife, as is 'shady' gambling, and just because you dont see it happen, doesnt mean it hasnt between factions etc. |  |
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| Wigan into administration on 12:33 - Jul 4 with 2209 views | kensalriser |
| Wigan into administration on 08:25 - Jul 4 by stevec |
It might be an idea if the likes of Gary Lineker concentrated on the scandal of players wages being the actual reason why so many clubs like Wigan are on the brink of going bust.
Still, much more fun speculating about a bet in the Philippines. |
I thought you'd be in favour of free markets. |  |
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| Wigan into administration on 12:38 - Jul 4 with 2195 views | stevec |
| Wigan into administration on 11:34 - Jul 4 by qprd |
Everyone knows that player wages are too high
Do you genuinely believe that there isn’t something beyond wages here? The owners bought the club a few weeks ago. all the wages are subject to fixed contracts, so the owners knew all the liabilities when they bought the club.
As for the speculation.... I mean, it comes from a direct quote from the chairman of the efl......
The contrarian opinion is pretty hard to justify in this case |
Well we don’t know for certain the ins and outs of this bet yet, but what we do know is Wigan were, and still are, losing millions on a consistent basis.
Ultimately, if the owners, new or otherwise, decide at any point in time that they’re not going to finance the losses any more then they have a duty to appoint administrators if only to stop the Company accruing any further debt.
This is the problem with football. Everyone connected with the game seems far more interested in potential shenanigans like a rogue bet than the actual problem that is crippling the game. | | | |
| Wigan into administration on 15:26 - Jul 4 with 2061 views | Boston |
Did Wigan's players get paid this week? | |
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| Wigan into administration on 17:16 - Jul 4 with 1953 views | qprd |
| Wigan into administration on 12:38 - Jul 4 by stevec |
Well we don’t know for certain the ins and outs of this bet yet, but what we do know is Wigan were, and still are, losing millions on a consistent basis.
Ultimately, if the owners, new or otherwise, decide at any point in time that they’re not going to finance the losses any more then they have a duty to appoint administrators if only to stop the Company accruing any further debt.
This is the problem with football. Everyone connected with the game seems far more interested in potential shenanigans like a rogue bet than the actual problem that is crippling the game. |
I dont agree
People connected with the game obviously do care, which is the reason why they created the FFP regulations (although the rules and their enforcement have been a mess)
Ultimately, though, wages will remain high until a salary cap is introduced. However, all the game's stakeholders will oppose it b/c (i) in the case of players, itll reduce their earnings, (ii) in the case of agents, itll reduce their earnings, as theirs are tied to the players, (iii) in the case of leagues, it reduces the competitiveness/standards of the leagues as top talent will go to other leagues... also, fans are largely indifferent to their own clubs finances b/c its money out of the owners pockets, not theirs
the fact that football clubs lose a lot of money is not new, and honestly is not really a big issue.... in nearly every case, the owners fund the losses. if the owners are unwilling to fund the losses, a new owner comes in and covers them..... an incredibly high percentage of non-prem teams lose money, and yet administrations are very rare...
the issue here is really an issue of the ownership.. if owners want to lose money, that is their prerogative... the efls responsibility should be to ensure that "fit and proper" owners are actually buying these clubs... they should also be doing some kind of diligence to ensure that that the owners actually have sufficient funds to cover losses/request some kind of enforceable guarantee to ensure they dont walk away leaving clubs in a mess
id separately argue that high wages actually havent crippled the game, but actually made it much better from a talent perspective... the premier league is the best league in the world b/c teams attract the best players b/c they pay them the most.... the standard of player in the championship is also higher than it was 10-15 years ago... from a fans perspective, who cares if some billionaire in the us or china loses a few million quid a year? | | | |
| Wigan into administration on 17:29 - Jul 4 with 1910 views | loftboy |
| Wigan into administration on 15:26 - Jul 4 by Boston |
Did Wigan's players get paid this week? |
No, the players were sent an Email telling them the weren’t. |  |
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| Wigan into administration on 17:32 - Jul 4 with 1891 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Wigan into administration on 17:16 - Jul 4 by qprd |
I dont agree
People connected with the game obviously do care, which is the reason why they created the FFP regulations (although the rules and their enforcement have been a mess)
Ultimately, though, wages will remain high until a salary cap is introduced. However, all the game's stakeholders will oppose it b/c (i) in the case of players, itll reduce their earnings, (ii) in the case of agents, itll reduce their earnings, as theirs are tied to the players, (iii) in the case of leagues, it reduces the competitiveness/standards of the leagues as top talent will go to other leagues... also, fans are largely indifferent to their own clubs finances b/c its money out of the owners pockets, not theirs
the fact that football clubs lose a lot of money is not new, and honestly is not really a big issue.... in nearly every case, the owners fund the losses. if the owners are unwilling to fund the losses, a new owner comes in and covers them..... an incredibly high percentage of non-prem teams lose money, and yet administrations are very rare...
the issue here is really an issue of the ownership.. if owners want to lose money, that is their prerogative... the efls responsibility should be to ensure that "fit and proper" owners are actually buying these clubs... they should also be doing some kind of diligence to ensure that that the owners actually have sufficient funds to cover losses/request some kind of enforceable guarantee to ensure they dont walk away leaving clubs in a mess
id separately argue that high wages actually havent crippled the game, but actually made it much better from a talent perspective... the premier league is the best league in the world b/c teams attract the best players b/c they pay them the most.... the standard of player in the championship is also higher than it was 10-15 years ago... from a fans perspective, who cares if some billionaire in the us or china loses a few million quid a year? |
"People connected with the game obviously do care, which is the reason why they created the FFP regulations (although the rules and their enforcement have been a mess)"
Sorry, d, but I'm cynical about the motivation behind FFP. I t think we need to ask "who benefits" with FFP and the answer is the big clubs who no longer have the danger of being usurped. So, I will guess that the motivation was far from benevolent. | |
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| Wigan into administration on 17:37 - Jul 4 with 1875 views | QPR_John |
| Wigan into administration on 17:32 - Jul 4 by BrianMcCarthy |
"People connected with the game obviously do care, which is the reason why they created the FFP regulations (although the rules and their enforcement have been a mess)"
Sorry, d, but I'm cynical about the motivation behind FFP. I t think we need to ask "who benefits" with FFP and the answer is the big clubs who no longer have the danger of being usurped. So, I will guess that the motivation was far from benevolent. |
Have to agree with you there. | | | |
| Wigan into administration on 18:29 - Jul 4 with 1816 views | qprd |
| Wigan into administration on 17:32 - Jul 4 by BrianMcCarthy |
"People connected with the game obviously do care, which is the reason why they created the FFP regulations (although the rules and their enforcement have been a mess)"
Sorry, d, but I'm cynical about the motivation behind FFP. I t think we need to ask "who benefits" with FFP and the answer is the big clubs who no longer have the danger of being usurped. So, I will guess that the motivation was far from benevolent. |
Hard to argue with that- it’s a fair point | | | |
| Wigan into administration on 18:30 - Jul 4 with 1813 views | Juzzie |
“ who cares if some billionaire in the us or china loses a few million quid a year?”
Up until a few years ago, thats how it was. Billionaire’s cant do the same anymore because of FFP so salaries will have to come down as clubs now have to operate within their own means which in the case of Reading, they can’t as it stands. |  | | |
| Wigan into administration on 18:37 - Jul 4 with 1797 views | MelakaRanger |
| Wigan into administration on 12:38 - Jul 4 by stevec |
Well we don’t know for certain the ins and outs of this bet yet, but what we do know is Wigan were, and still are, losing millions on a consistent basis.
Ultimately, if the owners, new or otherwise, decide at any point in time that they’re not going to finance the losses any more then they have a duty to appoint administrators if only to stop the Company accruing any further debt.
This is the problem with football. Everyone connected with the game seems far more interested in potential shenanigans like a rogue bet than the actual problem that is crippling the game. |
And In general that problem is paying wages to staff that are more than the club can afford.
In any other business field the majority of the football league clubs would be bankrupt and cease trading. In football. Nah.
Football needs to have 30 or more clubs go out of business and maybe then the others would realise the folly of their ways else they too would face bankruptcy. Only then might we get football back to where it should be |  | | |
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