| New Labour leader 10:40 - Apr 4 with 13603 views | supahoopsa |
Who's your money on?
Sir Kier is the only credible candidate IMHO |  |
| Blue & White hooped blood runs through the family |
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| New Labour leader on 19:34 - Apr 4 with 2312 views | LazyFan |
| New Labour leader on 17:55 - Apr 4 by PlanetHonneywood |
I’d totally forgotten there was a Labour leadership election on, it seems to have taken longer than the Yanks and their biannual circuses.
So, who won: Saunders or Biden? |
Biden on both. |  |
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| New Labour leader on 21:44 - Apr 4 with 2195 views | derbyhoop |
If Labour wants to implement left-wing (?) policies then they have to get elected. Keir Starmer may not appeal to Momentum and the majority of the Labour party membership. But, he is more electable than either of the other candidates.
Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.
This current government contains too many who have been chosen for ideology rather than ability. And they will be found out. Whether they are bad enough to lose an 80 seat majority is debateable. So, it will probably take Labour until 2029 to win again. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| New Labour leader on 01:04 - Apr 5 with 2082 views | PunteR |
Not Bazza |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| New Labour leader on 02:07 - Apr 5 with 2057 views | timcocking |
Is Mickey Mouse still in the running? They're all crooks. |  | | |
| New Labour leader on 08:17 - Apr 5 with 2015 views | Miss_Terraces |
| New Labour leader on 02:07 - Apr 5 by timcocking |
Is Mickey Mouse still in the running? They're all crooks. |
Unfortunately not, Mickey Mouse would beat Pinocchio. We can't have labour beating the tories |  |
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| New Labour leader on 09:11 - Apr 5 with 1958 views | NorthantsHoop |
Hopefully Kier Starmer can bring a sense of realisation back to the Labour party that Corbyn and his cronies have damaged. Ironically with Coronavirus, our country is now almost fully nationalised under a Tory government, but it had to be done to support people in these difficult times. The hope is a new consensus in politics will emerge but that is probably a hope too far. The main thing at the moment is that we get through this health crisis and save lives. [Post edited 5 Apr 2020 9:12]
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| New Labour leader on 10:15 - Apr 5 with 1890 views | Hunterhoop |
This Left vs Right narrative from Lazy is just very outdated and, well, quite Lazy.
There is so much more to it.
Very good friends of mine, who are Lab members, and had been in Momentum at one point, are very glad RLB didn’t win. They, and many others, have seen that movement for what it is; a protest movement not one interested in actually winning enough voters to gain power and enact some policies, even if that requires some compromise. You can’t drive a car from the backseat and if you try everyone hates you.
Momentum are bad for the very people they claim to want to support. It is vital Lab are a strong party with a genuine chance of winning an election (preferably actually winning one!). To do that they have to appeal to a broad enough church of voters. To do that you have to listen as well as tell. No socialist party has ever won an election on Britain. And socialism, by its definition, is opposed to any form of capitalism, even a social democracy with a large state. That is a major problem to getting elected.
And if you’re not in power you can’t implement the policies you’re campaigning for. You’re just a protest party that likes the sound of its own voice and likes to claim to be right.
I really hope Starmer does move the party back towards the centre Left. Not the centre, mind. We all need to be paying about 2-3% more in tax to fund the public services we need for now and the medium term. It’s a delicate message to get across and win voters, but this disaster opens an opportunity there...
Starmer also seems to be sincere and more intelligent than those at the top of the party before him. McDonnell putting on a old jumper and doing televised statements from his mocked up study whilst the rest of his place was typical grandeur was a bit silly. Starmer’s record as a solicitor indicates he cares for people and social justice.
I’m certainly willing to give him a chance. Momentum need to have a long hard look at themselves and do the same. |  | | |
| New Labour leader on 10:41 - Apr 5 with 1852 views | bakerloo8 |
| New Labour leader on 19:26 - Apr 4 by LazyFan |
I think it is right-wing drivel we would expect of the hard right on the Tory party, which seems to be so correct when it's against the left but not if it's against so-called moderates like that loser Chuka! At least Corbyn still has his seat.
Also, Corbyn would have for sure won the first GE against May if the moderates had not attacked him all the way through the campaign. Let us not forget they even challenged him for leader and this put not only the Tories in power, bu the DUP as well! Which of course misses the part about how Corbyn had victory over Owen Smith as a challenger when all the moderates came out of the woodwork. There was no luck there.
The party members now think Kier Stammer will defeat Boris. But the Democrats thought a moderate like Hilary would beat Trump and she failed and they think it again with Biden who is even worse. The party will learn the hard way that moderate politics are not acceptable by the electorate in the UK anymore.
Most of the UK just wants Brexit done whether we like it or not, that's a fact. And now we have seen capitalism fail even before C19 with austerity making it worse, not better so, more of the same from Kier won't do. Boris will tear Kier apart over Brexit again and again. Also on racism to deflect from the Tory racism.
The polices you say which are hard left like nationalisation Kier wants to keep. So, does that mean Kier is too left-wing for you? If he's going to continue the left polices, which he says he is, but I don't believe him, then it might as well be Corbyn as it matters not who the leader is to us on the left only that we get those policies enacted. But how you say the LP will get more votes now they have abandoned the loony left ones, yet publicly at the moment the policies are left-wing from Kier. So, how does this add up? Or do you accept he will be deceitful?
If you are seeing style over substance, then you may be disappointed in your moderate views if Kier stays on the left. I doubt it, but who knows. That's the problem with these broad church types, and let also come together and not have any anti-moderate views, because at some point, crunch time comes and they have to choose. Left or right no in-betweens.
There is no point in having a moderate which means a pro-capitalist leader of the Labour party and winning because we just get more capitalism. The Blairites proved that. So, no the country will move to the left as the right fails them again and again, no matter where the right comes from. It is moderate policies that don't work as they are just capitalist ones. And the young who will move towards middle age know this and they vote with the left.
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Truth is Corbyn was completely un-electable as PM. You can point to him narrowing May's majority in 2017 but that was clearly more a protest vote against the feeble Tory government at the time and May's own leadership woes.
This was borne out by serial liar Boris pulverizing him last year.
Starmer is probably the man to take on Boris and his work in the CPS should make him a serious debater at least, we need a strong LP and I'm hopeful he can provide this and not some disastrous Blair MKII. |  | | |
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| New Labour leader on 10:56 - Apr 5 with 1823 views | stevec |
So which part of North London does this one represent? |  | | |
| New Labour leader on 10:58 - Apr 5 with 1823 views | wood_hoop |
| New Labour leader on 10:15 - Apr 5 by Hunterhoop |
This Left vs Right narrative from Lazy is just very outdated and, well, quite Lazy.
There is so much more to it.
Very good friends of mine, who are Lab members, and had been in Momentum at one point, are very glad RLB didn’t win. They, and many others, have seen that movement for what it is; a protest movement not one interested in actually winning enough voters to gain power and enact some policies, even if that requires some compromise. You can’t drive a car from the backseat and if you try everyone hates you.
Momentum are bad for the very people they claim to want to support. It is vital Lab are a strong party with a genuine chance of winning an election (preferably actually winning one!). To do that they have to appeal to a broad enough church of voters. To do that you have to listen as well as tell. No socialist party has ever won an election on Britain. And socialism, by its definition, is opposed to any form of capitalism, even a social democracy with a large state. That is a major problem to getting elected.
And if you’re not in power you can’t implement the policies you’re campaigning for. You’re just a protest party that likes the sound of its own voice and likes to claim to be right.
I really hope Starmer does move the party back towards the centre Left. Not the centre, mind. We all need to be paying about 2-3% more in tax to fund the public services we need for now and the medium term. It’s a delicate message to get across and win voters, but this disaster opens an opportunity there...
Starmer also seems to be sincere and more intelligent than those at the top of the party before him. McDonnell putting on a old jumper and doing televised statements from his mocked up study whilst the rest of his place was typical grandeur was a bit silly. Starmer’s record as a solicitor indicates he cares for people and social justice.
I’m certainly willing to give him a chance. Momentum need to have a long hard look at themselves and do the same. |
That Hunter H is a post in which I whole heartadly agree, and you have put in a most articulate way.
Already its being stated that Momentum is sticking to its guns, acording to them Corbyn won the arguments in the last election, really !! how come we have a Tory as our PM.
Watched KS on the box this morning, in my eyes came across as a reasonable man with a reasoned responce in his replies to Andrew Marr. |  | | |
| New Labour leader on 11:03 - Apr 5 with 1813 views | joe90 |
Momentum issued a statement saying they've now shifted their position and will focus on holding Starmer to account. There is the problem with Labour. Momentum and their followers are the reason the party won't win a GE. I'm not dismissing their views, Im dismissing their position within the party. They need to break away and form their own party, instead of manipulating the party process for their own gain.
Labour has a very long way to go before they can think about winning GE. |  | | |
| New Labour leader on 11:40 - Apr 5 with 1765 views | Metallica_Hoop |
I don't think it matters who is in government after this for the next 10 years. (maybe more)
We are in huge debt and I can't see any way out of it.
The longer this goes on (left or right) we are properly fu'ked. |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| New Labour leader on 11:57 - Apr 5 with 1736 views | QPR_Jim |
Carefully, you're having a laugh aren't you? |  | | |
| New Labour leader on 12:09 - Apr 5 with 1720 views | Gloucs_R |
| New Labour leader on 11:03 - Apr 5 by joe90 |
Momentum issued a statement saying they've now shifted their position and will focus on holding Starmer to account. There is the problem with Labour. Momentum and their followers are the reason the party won't win a GE. I'm not dismissing their views, Im dismissing their position within the party. They need to break away and form their own party, instead of manipulating the party process for their own gain.
Labour has a very long way to go before they can think about winning GE. |
Momentum just need to join up with the British Communist Party . A home already exist for them.
A solid centre left and centre right is what we need in this country. I'm actually quite glad that KS has has won the leadership race. It will be interesting to see how the next few years of politics plays out
I also agree that that we need to be paying more tax. That includes the big corporations as well as everyone earning above £40,000 a year. |  |
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| New Labour leader on 12:55 - Apr 5 with 1612 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| New Labour leader on 11:40 - Apr 5 by Metallica_Hoop |
I don't think it matters who is in government after this for the next 10 years. (maybe more)
We are in huge debt and I can't see any way out of it.
The longer this goes on (left or right) we are properly fu'ked. |
I'm not sure, Metallica.
Obviously, there are worries. But the fundamentals of the economies haven't changed, people will have spending power after isolation finishes and I'd expect most people to spend. I'd also think that most companies will pick up where they left off.
Governments are underpinning citizens and companies as best they can so this might be different to 2008. |  |
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| New Labour leader on 13:26 - Apr 5 with 1551 views | Boston |
| New Labour leader on 10:56 - Apr 5 by stevec |
So which part of North London does this one represent? |
Alarmingly - two Gooners in a row! | |
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| New Labour leader on 14:16 - Apr 5 with 1499 views | francisbowles |
| New Labour leader on 12:55 - Apr 5 by BrianMcCarthy |
I'm not sure, Metallica.
Obviously, there are worries. But the fundamentals of the economies haven't changed, people will have spending power after isolation finishes and I'd expect most people to spend. I'd also think that most companies will pick up where they left off.
Governments are underpinning citizens and companies as best they can so this might be different to 2008. |
Depends how many companies survive and therefore how many jobs there still are, Brian.
Some companies are going to find it extremely hard with little or no income, eg hospitality, travel, football clubs below the top level. | | | |
| New Labour leader on 14:55 - Apr 5 with 1463 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| New Labour leader on 14:16 - Apr 5 by francisbowles |
Depends how many companies survive and therefore how many jobs there still are, Brian.
Some companies are going to find it extremely hard with little or no income, eg hospitality, travel, football clubs below the top level. |
True, too.
Of course, I don't know at all. Just pointing out that there are also some positives and some signs of hope. | |
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| New Labour leader on 15:33 - Apr 5 with 1416 views | QPR_Jim |
I'm only disagreeing with the description of the previous cuts as careful. The extent of the financial problems facing this country after the virus has gone and the timeline for that tone resolved are up for discussion. | | | |
| New Labour leader on 15:38 - Apr 5 with 1407 views | LazyFan |
| New Labour leader on 10:15 - Apr 5 by Hunterhoop |
This Left vs Right narrative from Lazy is just very outdated and, well, quite Lazy.
There is so much more to it.
Very good friends of mine, who are Lab members, and had been in Momentum at one point, are very glad RLB didn’t win. They, and many others, have seen that movement for what it is; a protest movement not one interested in actually winning enough voters to gain power and enact some policies, even if that requires some compromise. You can’t drive a car from the backseat and if you try everyone hates you.
Momentum are bad for the very people they claim to want to support. It is vital Lab are a strong party with a genuine chance of winning an election (preferably actually winning one!). To do that they have to appeal to a broad enough church of voters. To do that you have to listen as well as tell. No socialist party has ever won an election on Britain. And socialism, by its definition, is opposed to any form of capitalism, even a social democracy with a large state. That is a major problem to getting elected.
And if you’re not in power you can’t implement the policies you’re campaigning for. You’re just a protest party that likes the sound of its own voice and likes to claim to be right.
I really hope Starmer does move the party back towards the centre Left. Not the centre, mind. We all need to be paying about 2-3% more in tax to fund the public services we need for now and the medium term. It’s a delicate message to get across and win voters, but this disaster opens an opportunity there...
Starmer also seems to be sincere and more intelligent than those at the top of the party before him. McDonnell putting on a old jumper and doing televised statements from his mocked up study whilst the rest of his place was typical grandeur was a bit silly. Starmer’s record as a solicitor indicates he cares for people and social justice.
I’m certainly willing to give him a chance. Momentum need to have a long hard look at themselves and do the same. |
It is the drivel from the right that's somehow capitalism is acceptable in some form whatever that is. As we have seen with is and past situation it just does not work in any form. To the extent that when things get really bad, actually some socialism which was totally denied as being loony is now the saviour but only because we have too.
Momentum is a protest movement against capitalism and its one that may fail, but for sure it has moved socialism back into the mainstream when many Blairites said it was dead. Everyone hates Blairism more than Corbs with his silly ways. As Blair means death. Broad voters can be turned towards socialism as they did after WW2 when they rejected the victorious Churchill and we fought for and won the NHS, Wages Council and War Widows pensions. They were fought hard for and not given by capitulating. Just like fighting against the poll tax and strikes by junior doctors against Hunt are hard-fought for battlers that Blairites never supported until of course they were well won. And then they claim they supported them all along. Blarities supporting strikes won't happen when they are at the top as they do not support real change.
If you're in power and just do the same as the rest then you have wasted that opportunity. You have to get in and make real change. Would Madella ever give into Apartied just to try and make it work down the line? No never. So, yes one can win in the long run by keeping one's principles and just fighting longer and harder. The argument to give in and work around it is just giving up and also reeks of right-whingers again with their woke snowflake ways of trying to be moderate but really just wanting more capitalism of the same. This is actually the attitude the North hates and sees as Westminster luvvies that Blair invoked in them and the press pushed on to Corbyn. Even though Boris is really like this.
I like your Lisa Nandy talk, maybe the right need to realise that Socialism is the way forward and not capitalism and have a long hard look at themselves FIRST because if you think those 600K members want some nicey nicey capitalism then ask yourself why they did not join the Liberals? And why the young even in the US now want socialism and more of it, even in the USA!
So, have a long hard look at yourself of your own right-wing bias Blariite rubbish as it is the Blairites who divided the LP at both elections and cost this country dear. They even put the DUP in power by attacking the party right at election time.
Militant Moderates!
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| New Labour leader on 15:42 - Apr 5 with 1397 views | LazyFan |
| New Labour leader on 12:09 - Apr 5 by Gloucs_R |
Momentum just need to join up with the British Communist Party . A home already exist for them.
A solid centre left and centre right is what we need in this country. I'm actually quite glad that KS has has won the leadership race. It will be interesting to see how the next few years of politics plays out
I also agree that that we need to be paying more tax. That includes the big corporations as well as everyone earning above £40,000 a year. |
There is no centre, this is proven now.
Ask the Liberals. When they came to power with the Tories they even sacked up Student Loans despite saying they would not. And in the last election, they got decimated more than Labour did. Chucka could not even win, yet he's as "centre" as it gets supposedly.
There is only those who want Capitalism and those who don't just own and admit you want it. Then we can talk about what that really means for you and how that works in the LP which is supposed to represent the left which means Socialism and not a deviation to the Right.
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| New Labour leader on 15:46 - Apr 5 with 1381 views | LazyFan |
| New Labour leader on 10:58 - Apr 5 by wood_hoop |
That Hunter H is a post in which I whole heartadly agree, and you have put in a most articulate way.
Already its being stated that Momentum is sticking to its guns, acording to them Corbyn won the arguments in the last election, really !! how come we have a Tory as our PM.
Watched KS on the box this morning, in my eyes came across as a reasonable man with a reasoned responce in his replies to Andrew Marr. |
As previously stated because of Brexit.
But if you want more, Moderate Millitants constantly undermining the party at not one but two elections did not help. Ironically a lot of them lost their seats because of it.
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| New Labour leader on 15:50 - Apr 5 with 1981 views | LazyFan |
| New Labour leader on 11:03 - Apr 5 by joe90 |
Momentum issued a statement saying they've now shifted their position and will focus on holding Starmer to account. There is the problem with Labour. Momentum and their followers are the reason the party won't win a GE. I'm not dismissing their views, Im dismissing their position within the party. They need to break away and form their own party, instead of manipulating the party process for their own gain.
Labour has a very long way to go before they can think about winning GE. |
Why should they break away when most members support the movement?
Surly the Militant Moderates should break away as they don't want socialism no?
But we know what happens when they do not have the left-wing members, the unions, the left prospering them up. They end up like Change UK or the Liberals. Thus they cannot survive on their own with the left-wing members and the unions.
So, we have this situation where the Blairites won't move out, yet don't represent the membership and democratically the membership are removing them one by one, which is slow and painful and causes them to invoke militant ways against their own party as they have lost command and control to a movement that goes into an anti-capitalist direction they don't like.
We shall see more infighting because of them and it is they who are wrecking the LP chances of winning as they have always done. | |
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| New Labour leader on 15:53 - Apr 5 with 1973 views | johncharles |
The Tories have borrowed more money and build up.a bigger dept in the last 10 years then Labour did in all the time they've been in power
Facts eh ? Who needs em. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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