| Policing tonight 00:02 - Apr 10 with 7334 views | ParsSwans |
Way OTT with our current financial plight was there the need with Stoke taking only maybe between 100 and 200 fans to have multiple police armed with machine guns around the harvester and roundabout leading to the ground. Myself and a few fans around at time thought it was ridiculous unless a specific threat had been alleged etc no comebacks please regarding assets by Stoke players on us Jacks tonight like on Pitch please |  | | |  |
| Policing tonight on 06:38 - Apr 10 with 5639 views | 34dfgdf54 |
If there’s over a certain amount of people in one area, it is compulsory to have armed police about nowadays. |  | | |
| Policing tonight on 06:51 - Apr 10 with 5615 views | Pacemaker |
Large crowds in open spaces demands public safety, if you were a game commander would you put yourself in a position where you ended up in court being sued for not putting the public’s safety first as the recent Hillsborough trial showed.
The ability to randomly drive a vehicle at crowds is such a risk in any of our open spaces, glad to see our taxes being used to protect us. I think policing outside the ground is not charged to club anyway? Stoke probably a higher category game due to their history with Cardiff? |  |
| Life is an adventure or nothing at all. |
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| Policing tonight on 07:11 - Apr 10 with 5559 views | Dr_Winston |
To a certain extent the amount of Policing is beyond the clubs control. Stoke have always been Category A if I remember correctly so there will always be more law there than for many other games.
There's been disputes between clubs and their local Police authority about it. Think Wigan refused to pay their Police bill for a while because they decided that there were too many there. |  |
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| Policing tonight on 09:52 - Apr 10 with 5347 views | majorraglan |
| Policing tonight on 06:51 - Apr 10 by Pacemaker |
Large crowds in open spaces demands public safety, if you were a game commander would you put yourself in a position where you ended up in court being sued for not putting the public’s safety first as the recent Hillsborough trial showed.
The ability to randomly drive a vehicle at crowds is such a risk in any of our open spaces, glad to see our taxes being used to protect us. I think policing outside the ground is not charged to club anyway? Stoke probably a higher category game due to their history with Cardiff? |
They are often at Parc Y Scarlets when there’s a big crowd and always several pairs of armed officers at the CCS for the Wales games. In terms of Stoke, they have a fair few headers amongst their following and while they may only have brought a couple of hundred, if the intelligence suggest they are coming looking for it I can’t see the police taking any chances. | | | |
| Policing tonight on 10:11 - Apr 10 with 5304 views | Jinxy |
I for one am always glad to see them there. It's not necessarily the threat of fans v fans, more so those that would wish to cause harm by wreaking havoc within a random crowd. It's a sign of the times, sadly. |  | | |
| Policing tonight on 10:27 - Apr 10 with 5277 views | controversial_jack |
| Policing tonight on 06:51 - Apr 10 by Pacemaker |
Large crowds in open spaces demands public safety, if you were a game commander would you put yourself in a position where you ended up in court being sued for not putting the public’s safety first as the recent Hillsborough trial showed.
The ability to randomly drive a vehicle at crowds is such a risk in any of our open spaces, glad to see our taxes being used to protect us. I think policing outside the ground is not charged to club anyway? Stoke probably a higher category game due to their history with Cardiff? |
Machine guns in a crowded area, not a good idea at all | | | |
| Policing tonight on 10:37 - Apr 10 with 5254 views | TenbySwan |
I thought the police presence for the Brentford game was way over the top.
There was a bus full of the most harmless fans you could imagine, who sat down quietly and watched the game.
They were vastly outnumbered by police in the away end.
We also have a policeman with a 1980's video camera on a pole in the East stand every game. Does any body still use those? I was wondering if it was a fake just used as a deterrent. |  | | |
| Policing tonight on 10:38 - Apr 10 with 5251 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Policing tonight on 10:27 - Apr 10 by controversial_jack |
Machine guns in a crowded area, not a good idea at all |
Very true. Which is why the police don’t use fully automatic weapons. |  |
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| Policing tonight on 11:06 - Apr 10 with 5213 views | Badlands |
| Policing tonight on 10:27 - Apr 10 by controversial_jack |
Machine guns in a crowded area, not a good idea at all |
Training etc are far more stringent these days but I remember a police arms officer in the early 80s telling me that any policemen who volunteered for weapons duty '... probably isn't the type of person who should allowed anywhere near a gun'. |  |
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| Policing tonight on 11:17 - Apr 10 with 5196 views | Lohengrin |
| Policing tonight on 11:06 - Apr 10 by Badlands |
Training etc are far more stringent these days but I remember a police arms officer in the early 80s telling me that any policemen who volunteered for weapons duty '... probably isn't the type of person who should allowed anywhere near a gun'. |
I wonder what the rules of engagement are for armed officers posted at The Liberty? |  |
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| Policing tonight on 11:20 - Apr 10 with 5192 views | Badlands |
| Policing tonight on 11:17 - Apr 10 by Lohengrin |
I wonder what the rules of engagement are for armed officers posted at The Liberty? |
Probable or obvious terrorist attack ... and gobby Cardiff fans. | |
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| Policing tonight on 11:25 - Apr 10 with 5175 views | Lohengrin |
| Policing tonight on 11:20 - Apr 10 by Badlands |
Probable or obvious terrorist attack ... and gobby Cardiff fans. |
I suppose I’m asking are they allowed to use subjective judgement in an unfolding scenario? | |
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| Policing tonight on 11:46 - Apr 10 with 5144 views | Badlands |
| Policing tonight on 11:25 - Apr 10 by Lohengrin |
I suppose I’m asking are they allowed to use subjective judgement in an unfolding scenario? |
I believe they have 'officer discretion' to fire in an emergency situation but even then they seek authority from their commander - with modern comms that takes a split second.
'unfolding scenario' suggests minutes rather than scones and officers would be directed by their commander and reinforcements would be on the scene almost immediacy. (Those blacked ou vans aren't carrying hay for the horses! | |
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| Policing tonight on 13:15 - Apr 10 with 5049 views | Banosswan |
| Policing tonight on 10:37 - Apr 10 by TenbySwan |
I thought the police presence for the Brentford game was way over the top.
There was a bus full of the most harmless fans you could imagine, who sat down quietly and watched the game.
They were vastly outnumbered by police in the away end.
We also have a policeman with a 1980's video camera on a pole in the East stand every game. Does any body still use those? I was wondering if it was a fake just used as a deterrent. |
That bus that pulled up in Briton Ferry looking for trouble and got sent packing? |  |
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| Policing tonight on 13:36 - Apr 10 with 5014 views | Pacemaker |
| Policing tonight on 11:25 - Apr 10 by Lohengrin |
I suppose I’m asking are they allowed to use subjective judgement in an unfolding scenario? |
Once you sign a firearm out you are responsible for your actions and self authorise. Most incidents are too fluid for some sort of senior officer giving orders to fire.
These days the first thing drawn is a taser and the red dot facility causes most people to rethink their actions.
"Machine guns" are not used by police. | |
| Life is an adventure or nothing at all. |
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| Policing tonight on 13:49 - Apr 10 with 4983 views | Lohengrin |
| Policing tonight on 13:36 - Apr 10 by Pacemaker |
Once you sign a firearm out you are responsible for your actions and self authorise. Most incidents are too fluid for some sort of senior officer giving orders to fire.
These days the first thing drawn is a taser and the red dot facility causes most people to rethink their actions.
"Machine guns" are not used by police. |
I was thinking about an officer at the football seeing a van racing toward a crowd and having a split-second to decide whether or not to open fire, if he’s sure he’s seeing what his instincts are telling him. | |
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| Policing tonight on 13:54 - Apr 10 with 4971 views | Vincent_Vega |
Bet South Wales police stick a massive premium for this service also. |  |
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| Policing tonight on 14:06 - Apr 10 with 4948 views | Badlands |
| Policing tonight on 13:49 - Apr 10 by Lohengrin |
I was thinking about an officer at the football seeing a van racing toward a crowd and having a split-second to decide whether or not to open fire, if he’s sure he’s seeing what his instincts are telling him. |
In that situation a properly trained and well rehearsed officer would have informed his / her commander as quickly as it would take to position, raise weapon and aim (that and getting authorisation and firing around 2 seconds). Unless there was a clear instruction not to fire the officer would fire. Assessing risk is a high priority - are public casualties likely and would opening fire risk more damage than might be saved; is the vehicle out of control or being used as a weapon: does the driver appear conscious?
Wouldn't wan their job.
Most commanders would authorise on the officers word and instinct but the officer would open fire unless clearly told not to.
(Mate trains police in small arms procedure, tactics and firing.) | |
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| Policing tonight on 14:19 - Apr 10 with 4930 views | Lohengrin |
| Policing tonight on 14:06 - Apr 10 by Badlands |
In that situation a properly trained and well rehearsed officer would have informed his / her commander as quickly as it would take to position, raise weapon and aim (that and getting authorisation and firing around 2 seconds). Unless there was a clear instruction not to fire the officer would fire. Assessing risk is a high priority - are public casualties likely and would opening fire risk more damage than might be saved; is the vehicle out of control or being used as a weapon: does the driver appear conscious?
Wouldn't wan their job.
Most commanders would authorise on the officers word and instinct but the officer would open fire unless clearly told not to.
(Mate trains police in small arms procedure, tactics and firing.) |
Terrible position to be in, isn’t it? Get it wrong and the consequences are dire either way. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Policing tonight on 18:46 - Apr 10 with 4787 views | Pacemaker |
| Policing tonight on 13:49 - Apr 10 by Lohengrin |
I was thinking about an officer at the football seeing a van racing toward a crowd and having a split-second to decide whether or not to open fire, if he’s sure he’s seeing what his instincts are telling him. |
They would open fire absolutely no doubt, anyone in the present environment who looks likely to be carrying out a terrorist attack will be stopped by whatever means are available. | |
| Life is an adventure or nothing at all. |
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| Policing tonight on 18:56 - Apr 10 with 4770 views | Pacemaker |
| Policing tonight on 14:06 - Apr 10 by Badlands |
In that situation a properly trained and well rehearsed officer would have informed his / her commander as quickly as it would take to position, raise weapon and aim (that and getting authorisation and firing around 2 seconds). Unless there was a clear instruction not to fire the officer would fire. Assessing risk is a high priority - are public casualties likely and would opening fire risk more damage than might be saved; is the vehicle out of control or being used as a weapon: does the driver appear conscious?
Wouldn't wan their job.
Most commanders would authorise on the officers word and instinct but the officer would open fire unless clearly told not to.
(Mate trains police in small arms procedure, tactics and firing.) |
No way would you wait for authority in those circumstances if you are sure of an attack you shoot. 30 years ago things were different, police were reluctant to shoot first, now you cannot hesitate
Getting authority from a commander through Normal radio traffic is too heavy, look at the Westminster/ Borough Market attacks the first confrontation with armed police and they were shot.
In normal circumstances you look for backstops to stop munitions hitting innocent bystanders but in these circumstances you take control not to wound but to stop. People are holding ied triggers you have to put them down. | |
| Life is an adventure or nothing at all. |
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| Policing tonight on 19:31 - Apr 10 with 4719 views | Dewi1jack |
| Policing tonight on 10:27 - Apr 10 by controversial_jack |
Machine guns in a crowded area, not a good idea at all |
Far better than nearly a tonne of Winalot getting spooked by a big crowd and reacting in an uncontrollable way with the Muppet on its back hanging on. |  |
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| Policing tonight on 19:46 - Apr 10 with 4685 views | Lohengrin |
| Policing tonight on 18:46 - Apr 10 by Pacemaker |
They would open fire absolutely no doubt, anyone in the present environment who looks likely to be carrying out a terrorist attack will be stopped by whatever means are available. |
You’d hope so, mate, but as I’m sat here typing this I’ve got the fate of Lee Clegg in the back of my mind. What was it they said? The first three shots were legal, the fourth wasn’t? | |
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| Policing tonight on 20:01 - Apr 10 with 4665 views | Badlands |
| Policing tonight on 18:56 - Apr 10 by Pacemaker |
No way would you wait for authority in those circumstances if you are sure of an attack you shoot. 30 years ago things were different, police were reluctant to shoot first, now you cannot hesitate
Getting authority from a commander through Normal radio traffic is too heavy, look at the Westminster/ Borough Market attacks the first confrontation with armed police and they were shot.
In normal circumstances you look for backstops to stop munitions hitting innocent bystanders but in these circumstances you take control not to wound but to stop. People are holding ied triggers you have to put them down. |
They assess and follow their training. A car coming a crowd is more likely to be driven by an old motorist having a heart attack than a terrorist.
Tactical commend isn't 'normal radio traffic' - officers are in permanent contact with command.
The Westminster attack took time to reach officers, even to the point that Masood was able to drive the vehicle to a halt, get out and attack unarmed, 'PC Palmer, 48 who, '... challenged him but was forced backwards and stabbed. Masood was shot by plain-clothed armed officers and later died.' The vehicle was not shot at and Masood was pretty much isolated when shot.
Borough market - Armed police arrive 14 minutes after the tragic events started to unfold and would have been briefed and given the go ahed to engage the terrorists. Even then warning were given.
I think you are spending too much time playing games or ignoring facts for fantasy.
Police do not act as you described. | |
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