| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 06:49 - May 18 with 2273 views | SydneyRs |
No, because there will always be someone executed who shouldn't have been. And one is one too many. |  | |  |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 07:02 - May 18 with 2266 views | kropotkin41 |
Yes, absolutely. Benjamin Netanyahu and his entire regime should be dancing on the ends of ropes; we should execute the war criminals who planned and executed the destruction of Iraq, you know who I'm talking about; we should execute the murderers who destroyed Libya; the Burmese generals deserve nothing more than a bullet each; Erdogan should probably go to the wall on the same morning; every oil executive from Exxon since about 1970 who has known about anthropogenic climate change but actively worked to convince people who should know better that it's no problem; let's kill the entire f*cking global ruling class shall we? Now that would clear up some of the worst cases of mass murder, orchestrated violence and butchery the world has ever seen, people directly responsible for blighting the lives of millions so that they can have their expensive houses in London would suddenly be no more, and the rest of us, once the grizzly work was done, could get on with making sure that everyone has food on their table, clothes on their back and a roof over their head without having to worry that some power and wealth sick cn-ut is going to bomb them out of their homes because they were born on the wrong oilfield.
As for judicial murder of criminals, however cruel they have been, it is both ineffective and barbaric. It does not deter, it does not reform. It only serves revenge,and if you want to base a society on that, as I've been saying, let's start with the large scale butchers, shall we? Start executing criminals and it will inevitably lead to mistakes, terrible cruelty done in all our names, the manipulation of the death penalty in the service of political ambition. It's nonsense. I'm not pretending these issues are easy, and please don't mistake me for a wet liberal.......... I'd just hate to run out of rope and bullets killing off petty murderers before we get to Tony Blair. [Post edited 18 May 2018 7:05]
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| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 07:18 - May 18 with 2247 views | JamesB1979 |
When you commit a crime, like murder, the only purpose of the sentence should be punishment not rehabilitation. If it’s proved beyond doubt using dna for example then can see no issue with hanging them. | | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 07:23 - May 18 with 2240 views | TGRRRSSS |
No absolutley not, we should never go back, mistakes WILL happen, corruption DOES happen wrong people are put inside simply because of figures and targets, and inevitably people would be executed as a result.
No question things will go wrong, and the DNA argument doesnt always work out for all sorts of reasons. |  | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 07:34 - May 18 with 2222 views | PlanetHonneywood |
Of my many experiences, six months working for a death row law firm in the US is one of them. Here’s why I say no!
1. The US criminal justice/legal system, which ours mirrors ever more by the day, is stacked against poor people. I’ve met inmates who were unable to afford a proper legal defence and when you’re against the might of the state, that’s not a good thing. Unable to properly defend themselves they have been found guilty in outrageous circumstances. I know a man who, despite testimony from independent and unconnected witnesses saying: they saw him x miles away from the scene; and witnesses to the killing describing a different car/assailant, finds himself on death row. These two aspects are a in addition to matters like: undisclosed evidence; false evidence and a patently wrong application of the Alabama Criminal Code;
2. In some US states, there is often a political will to get death penalty verdicts around election time, so the DA etc. looks strong on crime regardless of the merits of the case;
3. There is a disproportionate number of poor and/or ethnic death row prisoners in the system. Now you could argue, they commit more capital crimes, however do we really think that if an old Etonian murdered someone, he’d be looking at a lethal injection?;
4. There is no evidence that I’m aware of that the death penalty is a deterrent and in some cases, I believe there is evidence to suggest that some criminals might actually commit higher levels of crime on the basis, they’re going to be killed so fcuk it!;
5. The link between crime and poor mental health and upbringing is well established. Our systems are being diluted by the day and while these factors are not an excuse per se, they often explain why a man who say, was sexually abused as a child, neglected and in poor mental health might commit a serious crime. As I say, it’s not an excuse but is that the society we want; and
6. The world’s most stupid country still practices it, we don’t want to be even more dumb than them! |  |
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| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 07:57 - May 18 with 2197 views | izlingtonhoop |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 00:39 - May 18 by LazyFan |
You mean like Fred West (evil dumbo) and Harold Shipman (evil mastermind) who killed themselves and cheated justice. Becuase they both knew life with no parole in prision was worse than death.
Victims families were not happy either at the time.
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3392135.stm
Also if the state gets it wrong (DNA can be planted) then we need to hang those who killed the wrong people. As they are murders too. No lame excuses just because it was a mistake done in court. No being liberal wussy weak on the Jury or the Judge. They will have to hang to square it all off.
Because of course, the excuse is mistakes will happen and that is okay. Fairs Fair now. Don't be a wussy.
Or let's be better than that circus and agree Scum needs to be locked up forever and used as an example again and again to warn others. Once they are dead, they are quickly forgotten.
PS:
Agree on 9 years is too low, should have been 20 with 2/3 served in a hard prison at least.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
"evil dumbo" lol but true!
I saw him the other week outside the Loft.
Actually it was Dominic West, but he's someone who caught the "dumbo" aspect excellently in " appropriate adult" |  | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 08:20 - May 18 with 2171 views | Rs_Holy |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 00:39 - May 18 by LazyFan |
You mean like Fred West (evil dumbo) and Harold Shipman (evil mastermind) who killed themselves and cheated justice. Becuase they both knew life with no parole in prision was worse than death.
Victims families were not happy either at the time.
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3392135.stm
Also if the state gets it wrong (DNA can be planted) then we need to hang those who killed the wrong people. As they are murders too. No lame excuses just because it was a mistake done in court. No being liberal wussy weak on the Jury or the Judge. They will have to hang to square it all off.
Because of course, the excuse is mistakes will happen and that is okay. Fairs Fair now. Don't be a wussy.
Or let's be better than that circus and agree Scum needs to be locked up forever and used as an example again and again to warn others. Once they are dead, they are quickly forgotten.
PS:
Agree on 9 years is too low, should have been 20 with 2/3 served in a hard prison at least.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
What worries me is at some point some of these seriously dangerous people might be released. Personally I dont think thats right or in some instances safe.
Also it costs around £50,000 a year to taxpayers for each prisoner. Whats the point of keeping the likes of Bellfied or Ian Huntley in prison for 30 to 40 years. They will never add anything to society, They can never be trusted to be part of a community again, they don't (IMHO) deserve to live. |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:49 - May 18 with 2161 views | kropotkin41 |
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| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 09:12 - May 18 with 2135 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 08:20 - May 18 by Rs_Holy |
What worries me is at some point some of these seriously dangerous people might be released. Personally I dont think thats right or in some instances safe.
Also it costs around £50,000 a year to taxpayers for each prisoner. Whats the point of keeping the likes of Bellfied or Ian Huntley in prison for 30 to 40 years. They will never add anything to society, They can never be trusted to be part of a community again, they don't (IMHO) deserve to live. |
I’m happy to pay my taxes towards a system that guarentees me, my family,and my friends not being executed by accident/corruption/incompetence.
Bargain. |  | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 09:29 - May 18 with 2116 views | Rs_Holy |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 09:12 - May 18 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I’m happy to pay my taxes towards a system that guarentees me, my family,and my friends not being executed by accident/corruption/incompetence.
Bargain. |
There is no way Bellfield could be innocent! His crimes were multiple, premeditated and cold blooded! I would like to see Capital Punishment re-introduced for this type of criminal.
Acts of passion/one off incidents although terrible should not be regarded the same as crimes of a serial predator. | | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 09:42 - May 18 with 2094 views | Ashdown_Ranger |
No to capital punishment.
When our kids were young, the government brought in the Children Act, outlawing corporal punishment - making it illegal to smack children (unless there was a defence of ‘reasonable punishment’).
My mother-in-law complained, "We used to smack our children and it never did them any harm - I think they should keep capital punishment for naughty children!'
She's well 'ard... |  | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 09:43 - May 18 with 2093 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 09:29 - May 18 by Rs_Holy |
There is no way Bellfield could be innocent! His crimes were multiple, premeditated and cold blooded! I would like to see Capital Punishment re-introduced for this type of criminal.
Acts of passion/one off incidents although terrible should not be regarded the same as crimes of a serial predator. |
What about police corruption? Not saying they did, but could they have stitched up Bellfield? | | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 09:47 - May 18 with 2089 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 07:57 - May 18 by izlingtonhoop |
"evil dumbo" lol but true!
I saw him the other week outside the Loft.
Actually it was Dominic West, but he's someone who caught the "dumbo" aspect excellently in " appropriate adult" |
Excellent program. Him and Emily Watson both great.
I still get the chills thinking about him telling of the cries from the barn. |  |
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| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 09:52 - May 18 with 2077 views | Rs_Holy |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 09:43 - May 18 by BazzaInTheLoft |
What about police corruption? Not saying they did, but could they have stitched up Bellfield? |
anythings possible I suppose? | | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 09:52 - May 18 with 2076 views | robith |
Categorically not.
We all agree killing is wrong - it doesn't become right if the state does it to people who've done something wrong. I get that some people do such abhorrent things we struggle to process, but to give in to our basest, mob attitudes betrays all the values that underpin civil society. "We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard"
It also doesn't work. When we had it we executed innocent people, and people kept doing horrible things.
And ultimately I reflect on the words on Plato, and bizarrely George R.R. Martin. Plato said "In a society where there is crime, there is no justice" because our actions and punishments can not reverse the injustice that has occurred. We can not really, truly redress the balance and undo the initial injustice, so we must think on how we use punishment and what it says about us as a society. I think of a scene from A Song of Ice and Fire a lot: Ellaria Sand is presented with the skull of her lover's murderer, whilst his family plot further revenge:
"If you should die, must El and Obella seek vengeance for you, then Dorea and Loree for them? Is that how it goes, round and round forever? I ask again, where does it end? I saw your father die. Here is his killer. Can I take a skull to bed with me, to give me comfort in the night? Will it make me laugh, write me songs, care for me when I am old and sick?" |  | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 10:14 - May 18 with 2054 views | blacky200 |
No. Taking morality out of it, in the US the average time it takes to execute someone is 15 years. This is 15 years of uncertainty for the families of victims who are also subjected to the many appeals that take place. It is thought that 25% of prisoners on death row die before their execution date. Also it costs nearly double to house a prisoner on death row than it does to house them in a normal prison.
What we need is a more robust penal system. Forget rehabilitation for some prisoners. They should never be released full stop. IMO I think we have gone too far on human rights. Someone who takes a life in a deliberate and premeditated murder / rape etc should be stripped of the rights to rehabilitation because they have denied their victims right to life. For these people life should mean the whole of their life.
As Albert Pierrepoint (the hangman) said at the end of his career "All the men and women whom I have faced at that final moment convince me that in what I have done I have not prevented a single murder." |  | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 10:30 - May 18 with 2039 views | swisscottage |
NO!!!!!
True application of justice is an unattainable Nirvana.
Whilst we have a police force who are driven to make a case against a suspect as opposed to uncover the truth.
Whilst we have an under funded legal aid system that doesn't provide appropriate defense.
Whilst we have a Media more focused on sensationalism than the truth.
Whilst we have information and misinformation splurged all over the internet and the press.
There can be no such thing as a fair trial for such cases.
If you could 100% guarantee a fair trial and outcome, then I would change my mind, however that's just never going to happen. | | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 10:39 - May 18 with 2028 views | LunarJetman |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 09:52 - May 18 by Rs_Holy |
anythings possible I suppose? |
You shouldn't really look at people you think are guilty, you should look at the people that turn out to be innocent, in some cases years later.
Guilty people might not deserve to live but the innocent do... |  | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 10:48 - May 18 with 2013 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
I’d bring it back for spitting in the street, and talking loudly on your phone on trains. | | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 11:22 - May 18 with 1981 views | THEBUSH |
Gonna be a great little country soon, Brexit, hang ´em high, hostile environment................................... |  | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 13:49 - May 18 with 1908 views | SimonJames |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 03:47 - May 18 by isawqpratwcity |
I think 9 years sounds light, too, but that can be appealed by the Crown if they think it too lenient. It's better that these decisions are made by people who have more than a passing acquaintance with the circumstances of the case. |
If it had been any of my kids I would be waiting for these scum when they got out. |  |
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| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 14:08 - May 18 with 1883 views | Metallica_Hoop |
If someone throws acid on you, one should be able to pour it on them and watch them melt legally. [Post edited 18 May 2018 14:08]
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| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 14:17 - May 18 with 1861 views | ed_83 |
Nope. The urge to punish people who've committed appalling crimes is completely understandable, but it's massively counter-productive for society as a whole. Capital punishment goes against all the values civilisation is built on; murder doesn't suddenly become a moral good simply because it's enacted by the state rather than an individual.
It has little to no deterrent effect and may in fact do the opposite: US states which maintain the death penalty have had consistently higher homicide rates than those which have abolished it.
There are inevitably miscarriages of justice, from which there is no possible correction. Substantial numbers of people who are evidently innocent or whose guilt is at least unclear have been put to death. We would all bear culpability for that here.
A huge number of executions in the US and elsewhere end up botched, due to the Hippocratic oath preventing the involvement of properly-trained medical staff. Large numbers of prisoners are essentially tortured to death as a result.
Capital punishment has a brutalising effect on those involved in administering it: I've seen testimonies from a number employees in the US prison system for whom involvement in state-ordered killing has been utterly destructive.
It's hysterically expensive, both in terms of legal costs for a protracted appeals process demanded by the severity of the punishment, and the practical costs of maintaining execution facilities. There are thousands of better uses for those funds. | | | |
| Should Capital punishment be brought back? on 14:23 - May 18 with 1853 views | Esox_Lucius |
No, for most of the reasons that have already been expounded in previous posts. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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