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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival 14:36 - Feb 1 with 10427 viewsJack_Kass

Following on from the previous thread, looking at the stats for survival -
Bottom at Xmas/Game 19 - Looking at the stats for survival by Jack_Kass 23 Dec 2017 19:55
A lot is made of the ‘bottom at Xmas tag’, and statistically it can be seen as the kiss of death, with only 12% of teams having avoided relegation from this position*, with the three survivors being (WBA (2005), Sunderland (2014), Leicester (2015).

But, the asterix next to that statistic, is Swansea City (2016), as we were effectively joint bottom, and level on points with Hull City on Xmas day last year, and as we all knew, survived! So to flip that statistic in a positive manner, the past 3 consecutive seasons have seen the team/s with the lowest points on Xmas day survive, here’s hoping for for a 4th!

But, what fails to be mentioned alongside the ‘xmas curse’, is that Xmas Day can fall at different points in the season, in terms of games played, e.g in 2016 it was Round 17, with 19 not coming until NYD, and this year Game 19 has already been played, a whole 9 days earlier than last year.

So let’s look at Game 19, statistically, as a benchmark for the season, rather than the 25th of December. Game 19 being the half way mark, and theoretically, meaning we have played every team in the league (but not always strictly true).

Below is a summary of 18th position (highest relegation spot) at Game 19, over the last 10 seasons, with their points total, and their points per game average, with the credentials of the team who were relegated that season in 18th position, to the right, There is also the difference between the two avg points totals.

http://i66.tinypic.com/2jd16hc.jpg

So with Game 19 already played in the 2017/2018 season, we now have the data available to make the prediction for the points total needed to survive relegation this year.

The avg points needed for the team in 18th to survive, from this point, is 19. It has been as high as 23 (2011), and as low as 12 (2010).

The avg rise in points per game for 18th position, from Game 19 to 38, is 0.07, predicting that the relegated team this year, will have 34.58 points (35). Although it has been as high as 0.21 (2008), and as low as -0.16 (2009,2010)

Using the data, we can predict that the magic number to survive this season will be 35 pts. Incidentally, 35 is also the exact average pts needed to survive over the last 10 years (perfect!)

So what does this leave Swansea City needing to do, in the second half of the season, to reach the total of 35 points?

In 2016/2017, Swansea City had 13 points from 19 games.

In 2017/2018, Swansea City have.. 13 points from 19 games.

Swansea City need a minimum of 22 points in the next 19 games, to meet our magic number and survive, 1 point more than we would have needed to survive, last season.

Last year, we amassed a total of 29 points over the second half of the season! An average of 1.53 pts per game. That will certainly do again this year, can we repeat it?

Swansea City will need to improve their average points total by 0.48 points per game to reach this total, last season they improved their second half total by 0.90 points per game. An improvement of 0.48 points looks relatively easy!

Statistically, the club is in an incredibly similar position to the one they faced last season, with 13 pts from 19 games. They have scored less goals, but also conceded less, with a goal difference today of -15, compared to -23, this time last year.

Not rocket science to any fan, we need points, and soon.

The key notable difference for me, from this time last year, to now, being..

Last year we were at 19 games played when Clement came in, and rocketed us up the table, thereafter.

This year, we are already at 19 games played, with seemingly no idea of who is going to be in charge, or in how many games time?

Will we have a team/manager in place, over the next few months, to repeat the scenario of last year?

We did it just one year ago, can we do it again? Does lightning strike twice? Let's all hope so.





Updated to Game 25

Observations since Game 20 -

At game 20, the 18th placed team had 17 pts, and an 0.85 points per game average, since then we have seen the same position in the table climb to 23 points, meaning a 0.92 points per game average. A 0.07 point increase in that time.

With this increase of ppg around the bottom of the table in the last 5 games, we now have a new projected safety total of 36 points.

With 13 games left, the average points needed (over 10 years) from this stage is 13, giving us our new total of 36.

The average rise in points per game, is 0.03, again which means that adding to Southampton's current total of 0.92, gives us a figure of 36.

In short, as long as the team in 18th averages 1 point a week increase, then 36 will be the minimum needed, at this moment in time.

Looking ahead to Game 30 -

For the projected total to go above or below 36, we would need to see the 18th placed team achieve the following totals by Game 30.



If we see the same increase in ppg as we did over the last 5 game weeks, then 18th place will have 30 points at Game 30, meaning a safety target of 38 points.

Could it happen? You never know in football, but I think with the league being so congested at the bottom, and teams inevitably taking points away from one another, I think 36 is still more than sound total for us to be aiming for

4 wins from 13 will do it!

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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 20:24 - Feb 1 with 2322 viewsyescomeon

This was interesting. Where did you get the data from OP?

Upthecity!

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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 20:47 - Feb 1 with 2306 viewsProfessor

Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 20:21 - Feb 1 by plasjack

Lets get this straight if we don't win 4 games and a few draws we will be relegated, I could have predicted that, without going into mathematical theories.


That is the ‘Granny test’
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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 20:57 - Feb 1 with 2298 viewsmax936

At the end of the day 40 pts is the bench mark, achieve that and we won't be going down, anything less could put us in the melting pot, I feel.

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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 20:58 - Feb 1 with 2298 viewsplasjack

Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 20:47 - Feb 1 by Professor

That is the ‘Granny test’


More like the gobbledygook test too me prof.
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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 21:25 - Feb 1 with 2281 viewsDeanoS

Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 17:51 - Feb 1 by Professor

I don't think the mode would be any use really-other than an idea of 'frequency of points needed' but the median is an interesting one and can be of more value when the data distribution is not 'normal'. So in terms of any outliers e.g.West Ham going down on over 40 points or staying up on 33, they would be taken into the value. I guess the difference may be an arithmetic mean of survival points is decreased in recent years, but the median may remain higher given it is based more on rank than the actual number. We have a lot of data where there are not normal distribution and so use medians, ranges and non-parametric tests more frequently than mean and t tests or ANOVA.

That said it is an unpredictable season. Although lower placed teams like us are beating the big boys, we all have to play each other too (though not Palace, Watford and Newcastle in our case). What may be to our advantage is that those around use were probably looking at us as a home banker or likely away points. My feeling is 36 or 37 may be enough. At the moment Soton, Huddersfield and Watford can't buy a win. Just get the feeling that Saints have sold the family silver once too often and Watford's revolving door is coming unhinged. It may go all the way but feel that us, WBA and Stoke have a enough nous and experience to stay up. Along with Newcastle and Brighton, the three aforementioned teams do look to be running on fumes to an extent. Only time can tell.


Stupid self indulgent post

Stop trying to hide behind academic gibberish, get in the real world and have an opinion that matters, in a footballing sense

Only time can tell - is the best you can do
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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 22:14 - Feb 1 with 2250 viewspikeypaul

7 teams have so far averaged less than a point a game.

If at least 3 of these 7 teams carry that on then 37 points
will be enough for the any team to stay up.

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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 22:37 - Feb 1 with 2242 viewsProfessor

Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 21:25 - Feb 1 by DeanoS

Stupid self indulgent post

Stop trying to hide behind academic gibberish, get in the real world and have an opinion that matters, in a footballing sense

Only time can tell - is the best you can do


Only gibberish if you don’t understand. There was some reasonable discussion over the method used. The OP made some nice analysis and there was some, partly light hearted, discussion over what would work best. I was making a point that mean (what is commonly called average) is
Not always most appropriate. My opinion is 15 more more points will do and was previously made. No coincidence that betting firms have some of the best staticians. I am not a good one but have had to learn enough to get by.
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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 22:40 - Feb 1 with 2239 viewsProfessor

Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 20:58 - Feb 1 by plasjack

More like the gobbledygook test too me prof.


The best analysis is one you can get your granny to believe rather than use of complex maths. So if we win 10 games we will stay up. Everyone, even your grandmother, would believe that.
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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 22:40 - Feb 1 with 2238 viewsperchrockjack

Self indulgent how?

Gibberish ?


Plenty of that on this site but Prof is innocent of that and the only poster who has and never would insult a fellow poster


Deano...that was poor

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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 07:35 - Feb 2 with 2167 viewsBanosPerth

Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 22:37 - Feb 1 by Professor

Only gibberish if you don’t understand. There was some reasonable discussion over the method used. The OP made some nice analysis and there was some, partly light hearted, discussion over what would work best. I was making a point that mean (what is commonly called average) is
Not always most appropriate. My opinion is 15 more more points will do and was previously made. No coincidence that betting firms have some of the best staticians. I am not a good one but have had to learn enough to get by.


And they have some statisticians as well !
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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 09:30 - Feb 2 with 2142 viewsProfessor

Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 07:35 - Feb 2 by BanosPerth

And they have some statisticians as well !


Indeed. You know we have keyboard issues in the Wirral area!
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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 11:34 - Feb 2 with 2114 viewsJack_Kass

Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 22:37 - Feb 1 by Professor

Only gibberish if you don’t understand. There was some reasonable discussion over the method used. The OP made some nice analysis and there was some, partly light hearted, discussion over what would work best. I was making a point that mean (what is commonly called average) is
Not always most appropriate. My opinion is 15 more more points will do and was previously made. No coincidence that betting firms have some of the best staticians. I am not a good one but have had to learn enough to get by.


Interestingly, I did some basic sums regarding removing outliers (calculating IQR and so on)

It said any final points total over 44 and under 40 were outliers! Which just gives West Hams total of 42 in 02-03, and two other 40+ totals some 20 years ago.

I got told by my own study that for all the fluff, if we get to 40 points, then that will more than often, seal the deal.

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Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 11:44 - Feb 2 with 2108 viewsmonmouth

Game 25 - Looking at the stats for survival on 11:34 - Feb 2 by Jack_Kass

Interestingly, I did some basic sums regarding removing outliers (calculating IQR and so on)

It said any final points total over 44 and under 40 were outliers! Which just gives West Hams total of 42 in 02-03, and two other 40+ totals some 20 years ago.

I got told by my own study that for all the fluff, if we get to 40 points, then that will more than often, seal the deal.


It would be a bit disappointing now if we don't get to 40, purely because we always have. Five wins two draws eminently achievable in our current mode, the only mode that I'm interested in.

I'm actually expecting us to nail Burnley, Evo, Stoke, Brighton, Soton and Hudds and draw at WBA and sneak a point at OT or, gasp, the other Manchole.

Points to spare.

Yeah, I know, this is Swansea. It'll be a nail biter.

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