| Cycling 14:50 - Jul 28 with 3148 views | eghamranger |
Never really been a big fan, but ive had it on all day and its getting to the last 30 miles. GB team are gradually catching up on the leaders as they start to come back into london. Well worth watching  |  | | |  |
| Cycling on 21:11 - Jul 28 with 660 views | QPR1882 |
| Cycling on 18:39 - Jul 28 by HollowayRanger |
pretty much what happened brits moaned afterwards that no one in chasing pack helped them chase break away,they had to do all the work as everyone sat behind them not caring who won as long as it wasnt them
the lead was 6 ins at one stage finished about 2 mins down seems like tactially they blew it badly by not going with break away |
2 min should have been easy for the pack to reel in the leaders if everyone put a shift in. But why should the other nations put in a shift just forCavendish to sail past them on the mall.
English riders were hung out to dry by the other nations and it was too much for them to do it all alone. |  | | |
| Cycling on 21:49 - Jul 28 with 642 views | Jamie |
As a non cycling afficianado, why couldn't/didn't the British lads go with the breakaway rather than expecting everyone else to reel them in for them? |  | | |
| Cycling on 22:05 - Jul 28 with 636 views | westolian |
| Cycling on 21:49 - Jul 28 by Jamie |
As a non cycling afficianado, why couldn't/didn't the British lads go with the breakaway rather than expecting everyone else to reel them in for them? |
Would have needed alot of effort and therefore taken the oomph (that's a cycling term) out of Cavs legs |  |
| I've found a team sheet for the weekend - anyone interested ? |
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| Cycling on 22:07 - Jul 28 with 634 views | Northernr |
why is it easier to chase somebody if there is eight chasing than if there is only four? I don't understand this, surely you're peddling your own bike. I know nothing about this sport clearly. |  | | |
| Cycling on 22:48 - Jul 28 with 606 views | TW_R |
| Cycling on 22:07 - Jul 28 by Northernr |
why is it easier to chase somebody if there is eight chasing than if there is only four? I don't understand this, surely you're peddling your own bike. I know nothing about this sport clearly. |
It's all about the amount of work the cyclist at the front of the peloton has to do. Basically if you're at the front you're the one that is doing the most work as you're first into the air flow. The guys behind get the slip stream from this and therefore don't have to work as hard. If you're sharing that workload between 8 riders instead of 4, it's less tiring as that workload is spread wider.
It's quite possible to be sitting in the middle of the peloton not pedalling or pedalling at a much slower cadence than the guys at the front as they are, in effect, being sucked along by the group ahead.
I've seen cyclists get as close to an HGV as possible as it creates the same effect and they get "pulled" along by the lorry.
Obviously you get the same effect in F1. When you see overtaking on a straight, the car in front is punching a whole into the airflow that benefits the car behind who picks up this slipstream and allows them to go faster. |  | | |
| Cycling on 22:49 - Jul 28 with 603 views | TGRRRSSS |
Like if you do (and I didn't know alot of what TWr just said) the John O Groats to Lands End it's better to do Lands End to John OG as you get prevailing winds behind you. |  | | |
| Cycling on 22:52 - Jul 28 with 597 views | Jamie |
| Cycling on 22:05 - Jul 28 by westolian |
Would have needed alot of effort and therefore taken the oomph (that's a cycling term) out of Cavs legs |
Surely by default though you're going to need far more effort cycling like a madcnt to reel in a 6 minute deficit than upping the ante with he breakaway and then conserving energy at the back of it. | | | |
| Cycling on 23:03 - Jul 28 with 583 views | TW_R |
| Cycling on 22:52 - Jul 28 by Jamie |
Surely by default though you're going to need far more effort cycling like a madcnt to reel in a 6 minute deficit than upping the ante with he breakaway and then conserving energy at the back of it. |
Yes and no. It really does depend on how many people want to get involved in the chase of the leading group. Today GB were known to be the best team with the best finisher, so no one was willing to help them If they had tried to reel in the first break away, there would have been others throughout the race. They just wouldn't have been able to sustain that with 4 or 5 riders over 250k.
The bizarre thing today was that teams like Germany were only ever going to win that race with their sprinter and yet they really did very little until it was too late to try and close the gap. They probably thought they wold let GB do all the work and hope Cav was too knackered at the end, after we had caught the leading group. They screwed up too. | | | |
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| Cycling on 23:09 - Jul 28 with 576 views | hamptonhillhoop |
| Cycling on 22:49 - Jul 28 by TGRRRSSS |
Like if you do (and I didn't know alot of what TWr just said) the John O Groats to Lands End it's better to do Lands End to John OG as you get prevailing winds behind you. |
That can't be right.
Surely it's uphill that way! |  | | |
| Cycling on 23:19 - Jul 28 with 564 views | Joolzz |
| Cycling on 23:03 - Jul 28 by TW_R |
Yes and no. It really does depend on how many people want to get involved in the chase of the leading group. Today GB were known to be the best team with the best finisher, so no one was willing to help them If they had tried to reel in the first break away, there would have been others throughout the race. They just wouldn't have been able to sustain that with 4 or 5 riders over 250k.
The bizarre thing today was that teams like Germany were only ever going to win that race with their sprinter and yet they really did very little until it was too late to try and close the gap. They probably thought they wold let GB do all the work and hope Cav was too knackered at the end, after we had caught the leading group. They screwed up too. |
Have to admit,have always found cycling boring,and the strange lycra-clad people who ride around london,angry and with moral-superiority,slightly annoying.Got caught up in Wiggins winning the tour though and watched quite a bit of it....20-30 yrs ago,what happned when they didnt have radios and all the info that teams need to control races....was it more of an individual sport?more breakaways,attacking? |  | | |
| Cycling on 00:04 - Jul 29 with 541 views | GloryHunter |
| Cycling on 22:48 - Jul 28 by TW_R |
It's all about the amount of work the cyclist at the front of the peloton has to do. Basically if you're at the front you're the one that is doing the most work as you're first into the air flow. The guys behind get the slip stream from this and therefore don't have to work as hard. If you're sharing that workload between 8 riders instead of 4, it's less tiring as that workload is spread wider.
It's quite possible to be sitting in the middle of the peloton not pedalling or pedalling at a much slower cadence than the guys at the front as they are, in effect, being sucked along by the group ahead.
I've seen cyclists get as close to an HGV as possible as it creates the same effect and they get "pulled" along by the lorry.
Obviously you get the same effect in F1. When you see overtaking on a straight, the car in front is punching a whole into the airflow that benefits the car behind who picks up this slipstream and allows them to go faster. |
Are you serious? Can you really just sit in the middle of the Peleton and be sucked along, without pedalling? If that was the case then even I could do the Tour, surely. |  | | |
| Cycling on 00:09 - Jul 29 with 540 views | TheBlob |
| Cycling on 00:04 - Jul 29 by GloryHunter |
Are you serious? Can you really just sit in the middle of the Peleton and be sucked along, without pedalling? If that was the case then even I could do the Tour, surely. |
Having someone sucking along your peleton is no light matter. |  |
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| Cycling on 00:16 - Jul 29 with 533 views | eastside_r |
| Cycling on 23:03 - Jul 28 by TW_R |
Yes and no. It really does depend on how many people want to get involved in the chase of the leading group. Today GB were known to be the best team with the best finisher, so no one was willing to help them If they had tried to reel in the first break away, there would have been others throughout the race. They just wouldn't have been able to sustain that with 4 or 5 riders over 250k.
The bizarre thing today was that teams like Germany were only ever going to win that race with their sprinter and yet they really did very little until it was too late to try and close the gap. They probably thought they wold let GB do all the work and hope Cav was too knackered at the end, after we had caught the leading group. They screwed up too. |
Ah I see. So it was the German's fault. What were Poland up to? |  | | |
| Cycling on 00:25 - Jul 29 with 526 views | Northernr |
| Cycling on 23:03 - Jul 28 by TW_R |
Yes and no. It really does depend on how many people want to get involved in the chase of the leading group. Today GB were known to be the best team with the best finisher, so no one was willing to help them If they had tried to reel in the first break away, there would have been others throughout the race. They just wouldn't have been able to sustain that with 4 or 5 riders over 250k.
The bizarre thing today was that teams like Germany were only ever going to win that race with their sprinter and yet they really did very little until it was too late to try and close the gap. They probably thought they wold let GB do all the work and hope Cav was too knackered at the end, after we had caught the leading group. They screwed up too. |
Ok, well thanks for adding to my understanding. Next question, why does this group that's pulling each other along have to sit behind the group at the front? Why not just have one big group at the front?
I know these are probably basic, embarrassing questions but I'm intrigued after watching that race today where a big gang of people who wanted to win thought the best way to do that was stay a minute behind the person in first at all times, including when he went across the finishing line! | | | |
| Cycling on 06:37 - Jul 29 with 510 views | qprmick |
| Cycling on 16:33 - Jul 28 by HollowayRanger |
surely the thing to do was to go with the break away and not let a group get a 6 minute lead on you |
With a five man team, we should have sacrificed one or two to force the pace, Christ we were in front for a bloody long time. | |
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| Cycling on 07:57 - Jul 29 with 493 views | TGRRRSSS |
Another problem of course was this course didn't suit the Brits as they aren't so good at the hills and the amount of hills hindered them in this respect, you'd think the people choosing the course would take this into account to give the best advantage to home team as it were. | | | |
| Cycling on 08:22 - Jul 29 with 487 views | Lofthope |
| Cycling on 07:57 - Jul 29 by TGRRRSSS |
Another problem of course was this course didn't suit the Brits as they aren't so good at the hills and the amount of hills hindered them in this respect, you'd think the people choosing the course would take this into account to give the best advantage to home team as it were. |
I would argue the opposite, Box Hill (for all the media hype) is not a difficult climb, there are much harder climbs within a few miles of Box Hill (eg White Downs and Barhatch Lane). This course was designed to suit Cavendish because he would not get seriously dropped on such a short and easy hill.
I said yesterday morning that a breakaway was the way to beat the Brits....I think they should have recognised this themselves.
Northern - as a football and rugby fan, I'm afraid cycling will go against a lot of your instincts. I always think that it's a bit like golf insofar as you only really get if if you play the sport.
Yesterday, instead of watching the road race I was out on the road getting my worst puncture ever, a great big screw ripped the tyre apart and carved a great big hole in the actual wheel frame, it ain't fun walking in cleats and new wheels cost money. Still, will be out again this morning. | | | |
| Cycling on 08:47 - Jul 29 with 472 views | TW_R |
| Cycling on 23:19 - Jul 28 by Joolzz |
Have to admit,have always found cycling boring,and the strange lycra-clad people who ride around london,angry and with moral-superiority,slightly annoying.Got caught up in Wiggins winning the tour though and watched quite a bit of it....20-30 yrs ago,what happned when they didnt have radios and all the info that teams need to control races....was it more of an individual sport?more breakaways,attacking? |
Yesterday was similar to how it was 30 years ago. Teams would use motorbikes and write updates on boards for the riders.
As a bit of a generalisation the climbers in the tour traditionally do well as that's where they make most time on their rivals. This year was unusual in that there were 2 time trial stages which suited Wiggins. He also had the advantage of having a team built specifically for him. Attacks were made, but Sky were so strong they were able to control the race.
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| Cycling on 08:50 - Jul 29 with 470 views | TW_R |
| Cycling on 00:04 - Jul 29 by GloryHunter |
Are you serious? Can you really just sit in the middle of the Peleton and be sucked along, without pedalling? If that was the case then even I could do the Tour, surely. |
Well, it was a bit of a simplification as there minor details like 2000m climbs through the mountains or individual time trials, but on flat stages you'll see the sprinters saving themselves for the end. | | | |
| Cycling on 09:17 - Jul 29 with 463 views | TW_R |
| Cycling on 00:25 - Jul 29 by Northernr |
Ok, well thanks for adding to my understanding. Next question, why does this group that's pulling each other along have to sit behind the group at the front? Why not just have one big group at the front?
I know these are probably basic, embarrassing questions but I'm intrigued after watching that race today where a big gang of people who wanted to win thought the best way to do that was stay a minute behind the person in first at all times, including when he went across the finishing line! |
There's a couple of reasons. As above. Whether there's 1 rider or 10 riders at the front they still have to contend with wind resistance. If you've got 150 riders they can't all be at the front and they dont want to be. If you watched the break away group yesterday they were constantly rotating the work at the front as that is the most efficient and fastest way to keep going.
Also as the peloton speeds up and slows down you get a concertina effect, so it stretches and contracts. So if a rider at the front speeds up and the others follow, the riders at the back will get a lag before they notice the increase in speed. That's why the peloton stretches out.
At one point there was a gap of 6 minutes that GB got down to 1 so they probably thought they were reeling them In quite comfortably. Unfortunately on the last climb quite a few riders made a break and joined the leading group. This made that group large enough that It become almost as large as the peloton so it become almost impossible to catch, particularly as there was no one else willing to help close that gap.
The strange thing was the Germans have a world class sprinter in Greipel and they made no attempt to get him to the front. I think, unfortunately we were beaten by our own reputation. People were more worried about our race than there own.
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| Cycling on 11:36 - Jul 29 with 443 views | GloryHunter |
| Cycling on 00:25 - Jul 29 by Northernr |
Ok, well thanks for adding to my understanding. Next question, why does this group that's pulling each other along have to sit behind the group at the front? Why not just have one big group at the front?
I know these are probably basic, embarrassing questions but I'm intrigued after watching that race today where a big gang of people who wanted to win thought the best way to do that was stay a minute behind the person in first at all times, including when he went across the finishing line! |
A bit like the Paul Hart theory of how to win a football match, you mean? | | | |
| Cycling on 11:54 - Jul 29 with 433 views | HollowayRanger |
| Cycling on 09:17 - Jul 29 by TW_R |
There's a couple of reasons. As above. Whether there's 1 rider or 10 riders at the front they still have to contend with wind resistance. If you've got 150 riders they can't all be at the front and they dont want to be. If you watched the break away group yesterday they were constantly rotating the work at the front as that is the most efficient and fastest way to keep going.
Also as the peloton speeds up and slows down you get a concertina effect, so it stretches and contracts. So if a rider at the front speeds up and the others follow, the riders at the back will get a lag before they notice the increase in speed. That's why the peloton stretches out.
At one point there was a gap of 6 minutes that GB got down to 1 so they probably thought they were reeling them In quite comfortably. Unfortunately on the last climb quite a few riders made a break and joined the leading group. This made that group large enough that It become almost as large as the peloton so it become almost impossible to catch, particularly as there was no one else willing to help close that gap.
The strange thing was the Germans have a world class sprinter in Greipel and they made no attempt to get him to the front. I think, unfortunately we were beaten by our own reputation. People were more worried about our race than there own.
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ANY idea why when the gap was down to one minute and the 2nd group broke away to join the 1st group why the gb team didnt go with them? tactics wrong or not enough energy?
cant see wiggins winning wednesday after france and yesterday |  |
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| Cycling on 11:57 - Jul 29 with 430 views | TGRRRSSS |
Possibly not enough energy or stratedgy didn't take into account what others might do, but bit of guess work really, don't forget on Box Hill they did the loop nine times which may account for the struggles in part??? | | | |
| Cycling on 12:24 - Jul 29 with 412 views | qprmick |
The reality is that in the Tour de France someone on the sideline is calling the shots, you can't do that at the Olympics. Riders obviously don't have the capacity to think it out themselves. A 38 year old Aussie came in 6th so you can't blame the Aussies for not doing the work. A cockup of great proportions and I saw it coming. In some ways it's a pity that dog didn't cull the field a bit. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Cycling on 12:36 - Jul 29 with 403 views | Cornish_oooRRRR |
Fascinating thread. Thanks cycle boys |  |
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