| Accounts 17-18 on 16:59 - Apr 28 with 2285 views | jasper_T |
| Accounts 17-18 on 16:49 - Apr 28 by BytholWyn |
That's what I thought at first, from the language used. But if that were the case, we spent £22.5 million more on players than we got in the season we sold Gylfi. That doesn't make any sense at all. Also, if you look at the figures the £55.5 million is added to the carried forward "Player registration costs" of £119 million, whereas the "Disposals" of £33 million is subtracted from the carried forward figure. So I'm assuming that "disposals" translates as "acquisitions" - with "disposals" being disposals of cash to acquire the players. But I'm no expert, so I'm happy to be corrected on this. A £22.5 million net profit on sales versus acquisitions does sound about right.
The other interesting thing to note is the impairment figure of £14.8 million. I'm pretty sure that this is a write-off due to injuries - which I guess would be down to the injuries to Bony, Fer, Clucas and Mawson - especially the former. That's a massive write-down, but not one I would argue with. |
After Spurs were paid their hefty cut for Gylfi it wouldn't surprise me if last season we spent more than we brought it. Jack Cork's transfer might have gone in on the previous year's accounts as it was in early July.
Money spent on players is added to registration costs and then subject to amortisation (depreciation) over the length of their contract. Disposals are losing an asset off the books entirely and gaining a cash figure as money owed from other clubs.
(I'm no accountant either obviously). [Post edited 28 Apr 2019 17:00]
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| Accounts 17-18 on 17:01 - Apr 28 with 2281 views | Badlands |
| Accounts 17-18 on 12:20 - Apr 28 by BytholWyn |
Given that the accounts are made up to 31 July it's reasonable to assume that some of our transfer activity last summer will appear in the accounts just published whilst others will appear in next year's accounts. Fabianski and Mesa were sold in June, so are presumably already accounted for, whereas Mawson's transfer was reported on 2 August, whereas Clucas and Fernandez left on transfer deadline day - so presumably these deals will appear in next year's accounts. So we're talking about somewhere in the region of £25 million of transfers out in the summer that will appear in next year's accounts. Celina and McKay joined us on 31 July - so your guess is as good as mine as to which year's accounts those transactions will appear. [Post edited 28 Apr 2019 12:44]
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Accounts to midnight July 31st.
If Celina and McKay's transfers were complete and signed on the 31st they should be accounted for in the next set of accounts as payment would not have been cleared until the early days of August. |  |
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| Accounts 17-18 on 19:25 - Apr 28 with 2203 views | BytholWyn |
Looking at the reported fees on Transfermarkt paid for players arriving and departing for the accounting period Aug 1 2017 to July 31 2018:
Player sales:
Sigurdsson to Everton for £44.46 million on Aug 16 2017
Llorente to Spurs for £13.59 million on Aug 31 2017
Kingsley to Hull for £2.57 million on Aug 23 2017
Barrow to Reading for £1.53 million on Aug 3 2017
Fabianski left for West Ham for £7.2 million on Jul 1 2018
Bartley to West Brom for £4.05 million on July 16, 2018
Mesa to Sevilla for £5.4 million on July 1, 2018
Total: £78.8 million
Player acquisitions:
Andre Ayew joined from West Ham for £20.53 million on Jan 31 2018
Sam Clucas joined from Hull for £14.67 million on Aug 23 2017
Wilfried Bony joined from Man City for £11.7 million on Aug 31 2017
Renato Sanches joined on a loan fee of £7.65 million on Aug 31 2017
Asoro from Sunderland for £2.07 million on July 14, 2018
Celina from Man City for £3.06 million on July 31 2018
McKay from Forest for £0.5 million on July 31 2018
Total: £60.18 million
Ignoring the Sanches loan signing fee - Total: £52.53
This translates into a profit of £26.3 million on player trading
Player departures/arrivals that fall outside the accounting period:
Jack Cork left July 11 2017
Roque Mesa joined from Las Palmas July 6 2017
Gomis left to Galatasaray July 1 2017
John joined from Rangers on Aug 9 2018
Mawson left for Fulham on Aug 2 2018
Fernandez to Newcastle on Aug 9 2018
Clucas to Stoke on Aug 9 2018
Amat to Rayo Vallecano on Aug 9 2018
The above profit tallies with my impression based on reported sales at the time.
However, if Jasper is correct, and we take the terminology of the accounts at face value, then the cost of player acquisitions above, of £52.5 million is similar to the "Additions" total in the accounts of £55.5 million, whereas the grand total on player sales of £78.8 million according to TransferMarkt is a staggering £45.8 million more than the accounts "Disposals" total of £33 million. Even allowing for the fact that transfer fees quoted in the media are often exaggerated it's hard to believe that we actually received a lot less than half of what was reported, although future payments based on appearances, etc. may boost the eventual receipts total somewhat.
Can someone who's an accountant please make some sense of this? Is it really the case that a profit on player trading according to Transfermarkt of £26.3 million in reality was a loss of £22.5 million. Have we really been misled to the extent that these figures suggest? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? |  | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 19:36 - Apr 28 with 2182 views | jasper_T |
We didn't get £45m for Gylfi. It was closer to £35m once everyone was paid. Similar story with Llorente, probably. Clubs and agents get their cut on the takings. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 19:39 - Apr 28 with 2172 views | monmouth |
| Accounts 17-18 on 19:36 - Apr 28 by jasper_T |
We didn't get £45m for Gylfi. It was closer to £35m once everyone was paid. Similar story with Llorente, probably. Clubs and agents get their cut on the takings. |
For a self proclaimed average joe punter that doesn't know much, you seem to know a lot. |  |
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| Accounts 17-18 on 19:50 - Apr 28 with 2152 views | splJack |
| Accounts 17-18 on 19:39 - Apr 28 by monmouth |
For a self proclaimed average joe punter that doesn't know much, you seem to know a lot. |
Jasper T - the voice of treason | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 21:32 - Apr 28 with 2071 views | BytholWyn |
This part of that article is telling: "According to their figures, Swansea’s total expenditure on transfers (including loan and agent fees) since their takeover in the summer of 2016 is £114.3m. The income from player sales during that period, they say, stands at £89.9m. As for the wage bill, it has increased by £12.9m on player ins-and-outs alone. Kaplan and Levien go on to make the point that the club has been able to counterbalance part of that trading-deficit through increased commercial and Premier League revenue."
For the wage bill to increase by £13 million shows a complete mis-management of costs, and we're now paying the price. This is no great surprise because Swiss Ramble was consistently showing that Swansea's wage bill was higher than those of similar clubs (including Stoke and West Brom) that were in the Premier League longer than ourselves - and so would be expected to have a higher wage bill. So much for the prudent, living within our means ethos that Jenkins espoused for so many years. | | | |
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| Accounts 17-18 on 21:36 - Apr 28 with 2066 views | jasper_T |
| Accounts 17-18 on 21:32 - Apr 28 by BytholWyn |
This part of that article is telling: "According to their figures, Swansea’s total expenditure on transfers (including loan and agent fees) since their takeover in the summer of 2016 is £114.3m. The income from player sales during that period, they say, stands at £89.9m. As for the wage bill, it has increased by £12.9m on player ins-and-outs alone. Kaplan and Levien go on to make the point that the club has been able to counterbalance part of that trading-deficit through increased commercial and Premier League revenue."
For the wage bill to increase by £13 million shows a complete mis-management of costs, and we're now paying the price. This is no great surprise because Swiss Ramble was consistently showing that Swansea's wage bill was higher than those of similar clubs (including Stoke and West Brom) that were in the Premier League longer than ourselves - and so would be expected to have a higher wage bill. So much for the prudent, living within our means ethos that Jenkins espoused for so many years. |
Come on now, give us some credit. We saved a fortune not having to pay out survival bonuses last season. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 21:44 - Apr 28 with 2050 views | Flashberryjack |
I'm not very good on financial matters...did we make a profit ? |  |
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| Accounts 17-18 on 09:28 - Apr 29 with 1913 views | jasper_T |
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| Accounts 17-18 on 09:40 - Apr 29 with 1893 views | Vetchfielder |
By the way, the only accounts published so far , and the ones referred to in the link, are those for the main operating company, Swansea City Association Football Club Limited.
The accounts for the parent Swansea City Football 2002 Limited have not yet been published on the companies house website.
I accept that there shouldn't be much difference between the two but there could be. |  |
| Proud to have been one of the 231 |
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| Accounts 17-18 on 09:42 - Apr 29 with 1886 views | LeonWasGod |
Swiss Ramble has just released Cardiff's figures for the same year. Not that many of us have an interest in Cardiff, but it shows the Championship position and is a guide to what we're facing now (but obviously we won't know how we're doing relatively until this season's accounts are out this time next year). Just thought some might find it interesting.
Edit - oops, I see Jasper's already posted this. [Post edited 29 Apr 2019 16:42]
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| Accounts 17-18 on 10:26 - Apr 29 with 1856 views | Fuggie |
| Accounts 17-18 on 19:25 - Apr 28 by BytholWyn |
Looking at the reported fees on Transfermarkt paid for players arriving and departing for the accounting period Aug 1 2017 to July 31 2018:
Player sales:
Sigurdsson to Everton for £44.46 million on Aug 16 2017
Llorente to Spurs for £13.59 million on Aug 31 2017
Kingsley to Hull for £2.57 million on Aug 23 2017
Barrow to Reading for £1.53 million on Aug 3 2017
Fabianski left for West Ham for £7.2 million on Jul 1 2018
Bartley to West Brom for £4.05 million on July 16, 2018
Mesa to Sevilla for £5.4 million on July 1, 2018
Total: £78.8 million
Player acquisitions:
Andre Ayew joined from West Ham for £20.53 million on Jan 31 2018
Sam Clucas joined from Hull for £14.67 million on Aug 23 2017
Wilfried Bony joined from Man City for £11.7 million on Aug 31 2017
Renato Sanches joined on a loan fee of £7.65 million on Aug 31 2017
Asoro from Sunderland for £2.07 million on July 14, 2018
Celina from Man City for £3.06 million on July 31 2018
McKay from Forest for £0.5 million on July 31 2018
Total: £60.18 million
Ignoring the Sanches loan signing fee - Total: £52.53
This translates into a profit of £26.3 million on player trading
Player departures/arrivals that fall outside the accounting period:
Jack Cork left July 11 2017
Roque Mesa joined from Las Palmas July 6 2017
Gomis left to Galatasaray July 1 2017
John joined from Rangers on Aug 9 2018
Mawson left for Fulham on Aug 2 2018
Fernandez to Newcastle on Aug 9 2018
Clucas to Stoke on Aug 9 2018
Amat to Rayo Vallecano on Aug 9 2018
The above profit tallies with my impression based on reported sales at the time.
However, if Jasper is correct, and we take the terminology of the accounts at face value, then the cost of player acquisitions above, of £52.5 million is similar to the "Additions" total in the accounts of £55.5 million, whereas the grand total on player sales of £78.8 million according to TransferMarkt is a staggering £45.8 million more than the accounts "Disposals" total of £33 million. Even allowing for the fact that transfer fees quoted in the media are often exaggerated it's hard to believe that we actually received a lot less than half of what was reported, although future payments based on appearances, etc. may boost the eventual receipts total somewhat.
Can someone who's an accountant please make some sense of this? Is it really the case that a profit on player trading according to Transfermarkt of £26.3 million in reality was a loss of £22.5 million. Have we really been misled to the extent that these figures suggest? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? |
Taking into account the Transfermarkt values and dates are correct (as indicated in the additions) the explanation is as follows (to a point)
As Transfermarkt indicate player sales proceeds were £78.8m for the year
In the accounts there were Disposal "Costs" of £33m (page 20) ie the original cost of purchasing the players.
When you deduct £33m from £78.8m this gives a gain on sale of £45.8m which is similar to the amount indicated on page 9 "Profit on disposal of player registrations" £46m.
What has thrown me is that on page 20 there is Disposal of Player Amortisation figure of £18.6m (that seems realistic). Normally this would be deducted from the cost ie £33m and therefore would indicate a Profit of £64.4m (not £46m as shown).
I can only assume that some of the £18.6m is cancelled by the majority of the impairment figure (£14.8m) below it.
This is also assuming Transfermarkt have accurate figures and dates. Hope this helps but as is always with accounts it is a lot of guesswork and assumptions when you don't have the details behind them. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 10:48 - Apr 29 with 1837 views | chad |
| Accounts 17-18 on 14:02 - Apr 28 by BillyChong |
That’s hardly competitive for a club that was established in the top flight |
Indeed, of the teams in the PL at the time of our relegation last year, we were in the top 10 of longest continuously serving PL clubs.
And from our majority owners on their strategy if we were relegated from the PL....
“Our opportunities for growing our commercial revenue are going to be dramatically hindered”
“our primary and our secondary and our tertiary objective will be getting back there” |  | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 12:20 - Apr 29 with 1785 views | jasper_T |
| Accounts 17-18 on 10:48 - Apr 29 by chad |
Indeed, of the teams in the PL at the time of our relegation last year, we were in the top 10 of longest continuously serving PL clubs.
And from our majority owners on their strategy if we were relegated from the PL....
“Our opportunities for growing our commercial revenue are going to be dramatically hindered”
“our primary and our secondary and our tertiary objective will be getting back there” |
And we had an academy worthy of one of the longest continuously serving PL clubs. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 16:35 - Apr 29 with 1737 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Accounts 17-18 on 12:20 - Apr 29 by jasper_T |
And we had an academy worthy of one of the longest continuously serving PL clubs. |
And ho many came in and played during the last year you were in Prem?
You've got some good young players definitely, but they've played this year due to having to sell off as many players as possible. To that extent, it's been a stroke of luck they've come good for you. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 16:46 - Apr 29 with 1708 views | LeonWasGod |
| Accounts 17-18 on 16:35 - Apr 29 by bluey_the_blue |
And ho many came in and played during the last year you were in Prem?
You've got some good young players definitely, but they've played this year due to having to sell off as many players as possible. To that extent, it's been a stroke of luck they've come good for you. |
3. But we didn't need them then as we had Super Sammy Clucas  | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 16:56 - Apr 29 with 1699 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Accounts 17-18 on 16:46 - Apr 29 by LeonWasGod |
3. But we didn't need them then as we had Super Sammy Clucas |
;) | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 17:01 - Apr 29 with 1693 views | jasper_T |
| Accounts 17-18 on 16:35 - Apr 29 by bluey_the_blue |
And ho many came in and played during the last year you were in Prem?
You've got some good young players definitely, but they've played this year due to having to sell off as many players as possible. To that extent, it's been a stroke of luck they've come good for you. |
Connor, DJ and Adnan Maric (lol) played.
It's not luck to have bought and developed well, and to have a talented and successful crop ready to go in the event of relegation. That was a stated objective of the academy. There was a glass ceiling for opportunities to develop (Potter's words) in the PL due to the money being spent and size of the senior squads involved, but no lack of talent or competition within the ranks.
I said at the start of last season Roberts shouldn't have gone on loan to Boro, and should have stayed to be 2nd choice RB. Same with DJ in the second half of the season, when during our dire run-in Carvalhal was out of ideas and bringing on a struggling Routledge to try and rescue games. Our set pieces were awful with Clucas and Carroll on duty, while Byers was clocking goals and assists from dead balls in the u23s.
Is it lucky that so many have come good? Maybe it's unlucky that more haven't. Harries evidently not fancied. Biabi, Blair and King expensive flops. Lewis struggling at Doncaster despite his main positional rival going to prison. Cullen hasn't pushed on as early promise suggested. Maric proved me right. de Boer and Paulet unimpressive. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 17:02 - Apr 29 with 1690 views | vetchonian |
| Accounts 17-18 on 16:35 - Apr 29 by bluey_the_blue |
And ho many came in and played during the last year you were in Prem?
You've got some good young players definitely, but they've played this year due to having to sell off as many players as possible. To that extent, it's been a stroke of luck they've come good for you. |
Given your rapidly looming relegation and the loaa reported last year I think you should be more worried about your mob....our problems pale into insgnificance!
HOw many acadamy players have you in your team? Wioll there be any for you next season?
What happened to the acadamy supercoach who is Bellend?
But then you won the FA cup in the last millenium and spent several year sat the top table when the world was black and white....that must grate all your real successes came when the world was that of the Super Swans colours | |
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| Accounts 17-18 on 17:05 - Apr 29 with 1686 views | jasper_T |
McBurnie also got some games last season, having signed for our academy setup. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 17:07 - Apr 29 with 1680 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Accounts 17-18 on 17:01 - Apr 29 by jasper_T |
Connor, DJ and Adnan Maric (lol) played.
It's not luck to have bought and developed well, and to have a talented and successful crop ready to go in the event of relegation. That was a stated objective of the academy. There was a glass ceiling for opportunities to develop (Potter's words) in the PL due to the money being spent and size of the senior squads involved, but no lack of talent or competition within the ranks.
I said at the start of last season Roberts shouldn't have gone on loan to Boro, and should have stayed to be 2nd choice RB. Same with DJ in the second half of the season, when during our dire run-in Carvalhal was out of ideas and bringing on a struggling Routledge to try and rescue games. Our set pieces were awful with Clucas and Carroll on duty, while Byers was clocking goals and assists from dead balls in the u23s.
Is it lucky that so many have come good? Maybe it's unlucky that more haven't. Harries evidently not fancied. Biabi, Blair and King expensive flops. Lewis struggling at Doncaster despite his main positional rival going to prison. Cullen hasn't pushed on as early promise suggested. Maric proved me right. de Boer and Paulet unimpressive. |
I'd disagree. It's rare that players come through, certainly in the Prem where players can easily be bought.
You've done well this season with those coming through but I'd presume the likes of Byers would not be playing if still in Prem. So to a degree it's been by necessity. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 17:21 - Apr 29 with 1656 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Accounts 17-18 on 17:02 - Apr 29 by vetchonian |
Given your rapidly looming relegation and the loaa reported last year I think you should be more worried about your mob....our problems pale into insgnificance!
HOw many acadamy players have you in your team? Wioll there be any for you next season?
What happened to the acadamy supercoach who is Bellend?
But then you won the FA cup in the last millenium and spent several year sat the top table when the world was black and white....that must grate all your real successes came when the world was that of the Super Swans colours |
Think you'll be wrong there. We've not spent much this season and wages haven't gone up that much either.
Depends who the manager is. Warnock doesn't seem to trust them, which to a degree makes sense when we were at the top last season and also in a relegation battle.
I'd like to see Coxe in for Peltier at right back, Sion Spence is maybe a year away from breaking through. Given the lack of goals from Niasse and Zohore, I'd have had Davies / Griffiths on the bench.
Bellamy stood down pending the investigation; an investigation triggered by the complaint of a player rejected by West Ham, rejected by us, rejected by Forest Green Rovers and now playing for a US college. An investigation triggered by reports in Daily Heil - a week or so after Bellamy on "The Debate" blasted MSM for stoking the racism against Sterling.
Interestingly, Daily Heil themselves admitted in a later piece there was little to no evidence. Amazing really, then again Heil blasted Bellamy for not singing GSTQ during the Olympics whilst ignoring the fact that neither did Taylor or Allen. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 18:39 - Apr 29 with 1596 views | jasper_T |
| Accounts 17-18 on 17:07 - Apr 29 by bluey_the_blue |
I'd disagree. It's rare that players come through, certainly in the Prem where players can easily be bought.
You've done well this season with those coming through but I'd presume the likes of Byers would not be playing if still in Prem. So to a degree it's been by necessity. |
If we were still in the PL maybe none of them would be playing, with panic, caution and spending the order of the day. Many would have had to go elsewhere to restart their careers. Byers was likely to jump ship with his contract expiring and time pressing on.
Young players don't progress without help. It's not enough for a player to be good enough, a manager has to recognise that they're ready and be willing to take that risk. Like Laudrup did in giving Ben Davies his debut the game before Taylor's leg break. The cream can't always when the pressure is on immediate success.
The plan was to built a strong and successful u23s side that would be ready in the event of relegation. Millions were spent on players to that end. If we'd gone down a season earlier the players were there. And if we'd survived one more season they would be, too. But maybe not the same ones. | | | |
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