| Fans action 12:28 - Sep 7 with 27552 views | Belfast |
They has been a number of issues this season as the club has grown, some superficial I would say, but the main concern seems to be untrained staff at the club, and a lack of vision which directly affects income streams and more directly the fans who pay the wages, salaries etc ... To an extent.
The board may well have run its course, or - it may well be planning now to upgrade its thinking to compete more logically with supporter reaction. So - what would it take for the supporters to take a more direct approach to the problems raised this year ?
Are the board that untouchable that they feel nobody would directly tackle certain ineptitude, i mean they saved the club etc .... That no matter what went wrong on the surface they are kept safe from a more stronger fans reaction.
Just a thought. What would it take ? [Post edited 7 Sep 2013 12:29]
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| You can always save face by cutting your fu cking head off. |
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| Fans action on 11:59 - Sep 8 with 3465 views | Belfast |
| Fans action on 09:38 - Sep 8 by Phaedrus |
So if the fans are getting restless, towards what course of action is this unrest leading?
( I'm assuming here that Planetswans is an accurate cross section of all Swansea fans, and not a collection of neurotic serial whingers) [Post edited 8 Sep 2013 9:40]
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Good question, this was what I was asking.
It seems there are none.
And there shouldnt be, we have had an incredible journey, and one worth £20 for a European game it seems, and the city of Swansea has seven new millionaires ;-)
The cost of the euro games is a slight issue but not as big an issue it seems that we wont sell out for the russian and swiss home matches. The club should have priced these at £10 a game. Or maybe offered a three match ticket for £45.
[Post edited 8 Sep 2013 12:02]
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| You can always save face by cutting your fu cking head off. |
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| Fans action on 12:02 - Sep 8 with 3452 views | exiledclaseboy |
I don't think anyone's actually called for a revolution or a protest or anything like that. Surely by and large we're all delighted with how things are on the field and only a little restless about some of the issues off it. Personally, my only beef is the ticket pricing policy, especially for the Europa League. I certainly have no wish for new owners or to even complain about the current ones. |  |
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| Fans action on 12:07 - Sep 8 with 3439 views | Phaedrus |
| Fans action on 11:58 - Sep 8 by exiledclaseboy |
I think the point is that it's still being run by fans but not necessarily in the best interests of "the fans". But this is all really semantics. |
They stopped being just ordinary fans the day they took over the management of the club.
Whether what they are doing is or isn't in the best interest of "the fans" is a subjective view. |  |
| And what is good Phaedrus, and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? |
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| Fans action on 12:07 - Sep 8 with 3436 views | jackonicko |
| Fans action on 11:54 - Sep 8 by Phaedrus |
The only course of action that I can see for those who want to have a bigger say is to get active in the trust. That is the way to effect change. |
The trust is silent on virtually every single issue that genuinely affects the fans. We are promised statements that never materialise and action that never occurs.
Which is why I cancelled my regular donations to the trust years ago. [Post edited 8 Sep 2013 12:08]
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| Fans action on 12:09 - Sep 8 with 3421 views | Phaedrus |
| Fans action on 12:07 - Sep 8 by jackonicko |
The trust is silent on virtually every single issue that genuinely affects the fans. We are promised statements that never materialise and action that never occurs.
Which is why I cancelled my regular donations to the trust years ago. [Post edited 8 Sep 2013 12:08]
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The trust is the one area any of us can make a difference. | |
| And what is good Phaedrus, and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? |
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| Fans action on 12:10 - Sep 8 with 3481 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Fans action on 12:07 - Sep 8 by Phaedrus |
They stopped being just ordinary fans the day they took over the management of the club.
Whether what they are doing is or isn't in the best interest of "the fans" is a subjective view. |
Ah you've now thrown the word "ordinary" into the mix to muddy the waters even more.
I completely agree with your second sentence. | |
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| Fans action on 12:12 - Sep 8 with 3476 views | Phil_S |
| Fans action on 12:07 - Sep 8 by jackonicko |
The trust is silent on virtually every single issue that genuinely affects the fans. We are promised statements that never materialise and action that never occurs.
Which is why I cancelled my regular donations to the trust years ago. [Post edited 8 Sep 2013 12:08]
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Theres little point (IMO) in releasing statements continually stating what issues are being raised although I think its safe to say that the issues that are raised about ticketing are not just ignored. Correcting them isn't an overnight process but you can rest assured they are being listened to. Change (as with most things sadly that involve a local authority somewhere) is exceptionally and frustratingly slow when it suits them
In terms of statements - what statements have been promised that have never materialised? |  | | |
| Fans action on 12:19 - Sep 8 with 3450 views | jackonicko |
| Fans action on 12:12 - Sep 8 by Phil_S |
Theres little point (IMO) in releasing statements continually stating what issues are being raised although I think its safe to say that the issues that are raised about ticketing are not just ignored. Correcting them isn't an overnight process but you can rest assured they are being listened to. Change (as with most things sadly that involve a local authority somewhere) is exceptionally and frustratingly slow when it suits them
In terms of statements - what statements have been promised that have never materialised? |
The final straw for me was the 'early' forced renewal of season tickets in year one of the PL. jim on scfc and others stated that this was being earnestly looked at and a statement would be forthcoming. Nothing happened.
There have been others, but everyone has a tipping point. To me, that was the point where I became just a revenue stream in the club's eyes. | | | |
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| Fans action on 12:22 - Sep 8 with 3445 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Fans action on 12:19 - Sep 8 by jackonicko |
The final straw for me was the 'early' forced renewal of season tickets in year one of the PL. jim on scfc and others stated that this was being earnestly looked at and a statement would be forthcoming. Nothing happened.
There have been others, but everyone has a tipping point. To me, that was the point where I became just a revenue stream in the club's eyes. |
From what I remember, the Trust did achieve an extra month for season ticket renewals following the outcry when that particular policy was announced. If I remember right, it was originally "renew by the end of Feb" and was then changed until the end of March. | |
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| Fans action on 12:22 - Sep 8 with 3441 views | dameedna |
It is not our business but part, maybe 20% of it is in trust (not everyone is in the trust though).
The ticket prices and the processes for getting tickets are issues the fans should have a say about but proxy is given according to status. All fans are not equal. The system is designed to suit the more favoured fans or the ones more capable of compliance with or influence over the design.
The system has contingecies to alter its design in reaction to many factors, one of them will be fans reactions.
It will take a combination of fans' opinions to influence systemic change, not necessarily democratic.
If it is broke it will need fixing.
Normally it needs fine tuning. |  | | |
| Fans action on 12:27 - Sep 8 with 3431 views | Phil_S |
| Fans action on 12:19 - Sep 8 by jackonicko |
The final straw for me was the 'early' forced renewal of season tickets in year one of the PL. jim on scfc and others stated that this was being earnestly looked at and a statement would be forthcoming. Nothing happened.
There have been others, but everyone has a tipping point. To me, that was the point where I became just a revenue stream in the club's eyes. |
I remember an extension being granted to that (admittedly not an extension that pleased everyone) but an extension nonetheless. And particularly when we were swimming against the tide (interestingly this particular incident is mentioned in the book - when I am on my other laptop later I will have a look at what I wrote there)
The tide we were against was the club argument that they want to maximise sales especially then as there was no guarantee we would be in the PL for a second season. So to that point yes you were probably just a revenue stream in their eyes on that subject. This is where - as a 20% (or 21% shareholder) we only have one vote and others may not take the same viewpoint.
IMO Jim was wrong to promise a statement on behalf of the Trust..that may have been his personal view that there would have been a statement (and maybe there could/should have been) - I do remember several hours of discussion between myself and Mr Cooze on that particular subject - the outcome of which was the extension.
Maybe the point in the second paragraph is where a statement could have been issued but it certainly wasn't officially promised and a difficult line that Jim (and myself on here) tread at times is a personal opinion and a Trust opinion. They're not always the same...
I don't recall ever promising a statement we didn't deliver though but I take your point. | | | |
| Fans action on 12:33 - Sep 8 with 3425 views | Phil_S |
| Fans action on 12:22 - Sep 8 by dameedna |
It is not our business but part, maybe 20% of it is in trust (not everyone is in the trust though).
The ticket prices and the processes for getting tickets are issues the fans should have a say about but proxy is given according to status. All fans are not equal. The system is designed to suit the more favoured fans or the ones more capable of compliance with or influence over the design.
The system has contingecies to alter its design in reaction to many factors, one of them will be fans reactions.
It will take a combination of fans' opinions to influence systemic change, not necessarily democratic.
If it is broke it will need fixing.
Normally it needs fine tuning. |
The line The system is designed to suit the more favoured fans or the ones more capable of compliance with or influence over the design.
Can you elaborate please? | | | |
| Fans action on 13:06 - Sep 8 with 3397 views | Spratty |
| Fans action on 10:56 - Sep 8 by Phaedrus |
So its about the fans getting what they think they deserve then? |
Its about the fans (or paying customers) not getting in some process streams what would be objectively viewed as poor / very poor customer service. It alienates customers and makes the club look amateurish. Especially where simple and cost effective fixes exist.
Not to employ sound business processes could be viewed merely as not caring when demand generally outstrips supply. However It is not conducive to long term healthy business growth, nor is cost effective in the short term (if you purely want to look at it from the business point of view). |  | | |
| Fans action on 13:07 - Sep 8 with 3393 views | dameedna |
i can try
I am thinking of the ticketing system. Not the the vendors which I see as a different issue.
One issue is that fans will not be able to keep up with the rules for ticketing. Some fans will rely on others to explain the issues.
The last ten years is evidence anough for me that although the ticketing systems will never be perfect, it is a small issue that can be overcome.
For me i get to every game I want, for others it may mean watching the game on the TV or Internet.
Never a time for complacency. I admire the work done to keep the club in good nick. | | | |
| Fans action on 13:49 - Sep 8 with 3365 views | Neath_Jack |
| Fans action on 12:27 - Sep 8 by Phil_S |
I remember an extension being granted to that (admittedly not an extension that pleased everyone) but an extension nonetheless. And particularly when we were swimming against the tide (interestingly this particular incident is mentioned in the book - when I am on my other laptop later I will have a look at what I wrote there)
The tide we were against was the club argument that they want to maximise sales especially then as there was no guarantee we would be in the PL for a second season. So to that point yes you were probably just a revenue stream in their eyes on that subject. This is where - as a 20% (or 21% shareholder) we only have one vote and others may not take the same viewpoint.
IMO Jim was wrong to promise a statement on behalf of the Trust..that may have been his personal view that there would have been a statement (and maybe there could/should have been) - I do remember several hours of discussion between myself and Mr Cooze on that particular subject - the outcome of which was the extension.
Maybe the point in the second paragraph is where a statement could have been issued but it certainly wasn't officially promised and a difficult line that Jim (and myself on here) tread at times is a personal opinion and a Trust opinion. They're not always the same...
I don't recall ever promising a statement we didn't deliver though but I take your point. |
"This is where - as a 20% (or 21% shareholder) we only have one vote and others may not take the same viewpoint. "
This for me is where the trust has lost a lot of its say. Since arriving in the Premier League, it's fair to say, given the recent dividend payouts and possibly more in the future, that anything proposed that would give fans something back, i.e a reduction in season ticket prices, would be voted against as it would mean less money going into the club/directors pockets. Maybe i'm just being cynical, but there is no family/community feel to the club anymore, its a business the same as any other club up and down the country. It all feels detached now.
Having said all that, the directors have done a fantastic job of steering us from obscurity to the greatest league in the world, and i have no problem with them drawing large wages. |  |
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| Fans action on 14:39 - Sep 8 with 3345 views | Uxbridge |
It's that feeling of detachment that many have mentioned that worries me. All very well saying it's all in people's heads but perception is everything ... something the club have historically been awful in managing. |  |
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| Fans action on 14:47 - Sep 8 with 3331 views | Belfast |
| Fans action on 14:39 - Sep 8 by Uxbridge |
It's that feeling of detachment that many have mentioned that worries me. All very well saying it's all in people's heads but perception is everything ... something the club have historically been awful in managing. |
And once again uxbridge catches the mood perfectly, i aint having a love in here, but its intelligent responses that make a thread like this thread appealing and thoughtful. [Post edited 8 Sep 2013 14:47]
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| You can always save face by cutting your fu cking head off. |
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| Fans action on 15:01 - Sep 8 with 3309 views | Uxbridge |
Cheques in the post mate  | |
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| Fans action on 15:34 - Sep 8 with 3283 views | Plasticman |
Seeing that the original post seemed to be more broadly directed compared to the line of more specificness the thread veered into, I'll be replying to the OP rather than ticket prices (of which I only tried once, and wasn't really unhappy with my experience there).
The thing I personally felt let down by, was the shirt thing at the start of this season. Not only did they not send me the premier badges my receipt clearly showed I paid for, but when I mailed them about it they just ignored me. It's stuff like that which makes me just not bother purchasing merchandise in the future because I can't accept such shoddy customer handling. |  |
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| Fans action on 15:58 - Sep 8 with 3265 views | Belfast |
| Fans action on 15:34 - Sep 8 by Plasticman |
Seeing that the original post seemed to be more broadly directed compared to the line of more specificness the thread veered into, I'll be replying to the OP rather than ticket prices (of which I only tried once, and wasn't really unhappy with my experience there).
The thing I personally felt let down by, was the shirt thing at the start of this season. Not only did they not send me the premier badges my receipt clearly showed I paid for, but when I mailed them about it they just ignored me. It's stuff like that which makes me just not bother purchasing merchandise in the future because I can't accept such shoddy customer handling. |
We are hitting the real issues at last,its about customer service and feeling valued.
And that seems to have gone in recent times.
You cant live on goodwill forever.
Altogether now ....
'Are you watching Leigh and co, Are you watching Leigh and co ' [Post edited 8 Sep 2013 15:59]
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| You can always save face by cutting your fu cking head off. |
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| Fans action on 16:07 - Sep 8 with 3243 views | jackonicko |
| Fans action on 15:58 - Sep 8 by Belfast |
We are hitting the real issues at last,its about customer service and feeling valued.
And that seems to have gone in recent times.
You cant live on goodwill forever.
Altogether now ....
'Are you watching Leigh and co, Are you watching Leigh and co ' [Post edited 8 Sep 2013 15:59]
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An interesting point.
The club tries to portray it is fan-owned, community based but makes commercial decisions that are anything but, and leaves supporters disillusioned. At the same time, it fails to deliver the customer service that you would expect from a commercial business. It is therefore neither one nor the other.
The trust has to dance a fine line. However, unfortunately, I think too often it forgets its mandate. [Post edited 8 Sep 2013 16:07]
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| Fans action on 16:10 - Sep 8 with 3236 views | Jackfath |
The problems out lined should be easy enough to trace back to find out who is accountable for the problems. If there is nobody then give that responsibility to someone. If the person doesn't action plan some improvements post haste then sack them and employ Belfast. |  |
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| Fans action on 16:11 - Sep 8 with 3234 views | monmouth |
Not sure about 'customer service' Belf. I don't want to feel like a customer, I want to feel like a member of a privileged club. I want to be part of something not a consumer of something. |  |
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| Fans action on 16:20 - Sep 8 with 3217 views | Dr_Winston |
| Fans action on 11:37 - Sep 8 by jackonicko |
In my view, the club stopped being a 'fans owned' club a couple of years ago.
The club decided to be more commercial, and therefore the board cannot expect the leeway they got before. If you treat fans just as customers, you should expect questions to be asked by those customers - just like any other business when they are not getting the service they pay for. |
In a nutshell.
Whilst the board deserve immense credit for getting us where we are, the day we stop challenging their actions and asking the difficult questions is when we'll deserve to get f*cked over again. They've done an awful lot right, but there's still room for improvement. It's the fans job to make sure that they strive to do so.
As for the Trust Director, I've yet to see him say anything that even remotely contradicts the "official" line.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Fans action on 16:21 - Sep 8 with 3213 views | Catullus |
And it's that feeling of poor customer service and that "they" don't care about ordinary fans I meant when, in another thread I said if I felt taken for a mug I would stop going.
At the moment my concerns are very minor but they are growing.
No matter what the board did, without the fans backing Swansea City would not be where it is today. Ok, most of today's fans weren't there for it, but a few thousand of us were. We can't single out new fans and disregard them but ticket prices across the board need looking at. So does ticketing, the club shop stock replenishment levels, the website, food and drink vendors AND STADCO and our arrangements with them. The club has moved on, so every aspect of it needs bringing up to date. |  |
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