| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. 23:54 - Aug 6 with 1937 views | Davillin |
Here's an article about a plan to bring Grammar Schools back to Wales.
I would like to hear what you think. Full article here, URL below.
Conservatives Promise Return to Grammar Schools — But Only in Wales
David Cameron’s refusal to allow the creation of new grammar schools will come under fresh pressure as his own Conservative Party promises a return to selective education in Wales.
The Welsh Conservatives’ shift — revealed in the Daily Telegraph — will reopen the debate about allowing academic selection in the state school system elsewhere in the UK.
Mr Cameron has antagonised many traditional Tories by opposing schools that select by academic ability, saying that the party’s education policy should focus on creating academies and free schools.
But Angela Burns, Labour education spokesman in the Welsh Assembly, reveals on Wednesday that if the party took power in Wales, it would create a system where children are educated in either “academic” or “vocational” streams from the age of 14.
“I think it is time that we revisited the successful elements of grammar schools and sought apply it to a modern Welsh system,” she said, proposing a “dual education system” with academic and vocational streams.
Under devolution, the Welsh Tories are free to set their own policy independent of Mr Cameron’s party in London, but their decision is still likely to reignite calls from English Tories for Mr Cameron to follow suit.
There are 164 grammar schools remaining in England, most of them in Kent, Buckinghamshire, Surrey, Essex, Gloucestershire, Slough, Trafford and Lincolnshire.
Current law prevents the creation of new selective schools. The Coalition says English parents who want a new grammar should set up a non-selective free school instead.
Mrs Burns’ move Wednesday raises the prospect of Welsh children being offered a selective education, if the Conservatives were ever to share power in Wales.
The Welsh Conservatives would not adopt the old system of academic testing at 11, instead separating children by ability at 14, she said.
“Instead of separating academic children from their more vocational counterparts, we could see the benefit of creating two equitable streams of education, one alongside the other, a dualling that begins at 14 — giving children the chance to develop important core subject skills before embarking on their chosen path,” she said.”
Mr Cameron’s Coalition has faced accusations that it has not done enough to increase social mobility. Advocates of grammar schools say that they allowed bright children from poorer homes to get ahead in life.
Mrs Burns cited research from London University’s Institute of Education which she said shows that the abolition of grammar schools has blocked disadvantaged pupils' “escape routes” to top universities and high-paid professional careers.
Critics of grammar schools say they are socially divisive and unfairly limit children with poor academic results early in life.
Blocking grammar schools on those grounds actually harms children from poorer homes, because it holds down standards in schools, Mrs Burns said.
“The arguments that are often used against grammar schools are made by those who are happy to sit by and allow failing schools to exist, to watch standards fall and accept that successive generations are lagging behind their peers in other nations.”
Challenging other politicians to accept the case for some academic selection in state schools, she said that the Conservatives should accept the evidence that grammar schools raise standards and increase social mobility.
She said: “Do we have the confidence to take regard of best practice and put the grammar back into education?”
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10226290/Conservatives-promis |  |
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| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 08:27 - Aug 7 with 1785 views | NOTRAC |
As a product of a Grammar school education I can honestly say that for those fortunate to pass to them ,it was a wonderful system of education.
Discipline was strict without being overbearing and pupil disruption was rare and quickly dealt with.
I personally can never see them coming back in Wales to replace comprehension education.I am just grateful that I attended one. |  |
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| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 08:53 - Aug 7 with 1779 views | Educated_Pork |
About bloody time. I've been calling for this more Germanic style of education for ages. | | | |
| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 09:00 - Aug 7 with 1776 views | jackb |
| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 08:27 - Aug 7 by NOTRAC |
As a product of a Grammar school education I can honestly say that for those fortunate to pass to them ,it was a wonderful system of education.
Discipline was strict without being overbearing and pupil disruption was rare and quickly dealt with.
I personally can never see them coming back in Wales to replace comprehension education.I am just grateful that I attended one. |
Would you support the system if you were 'unfortunate' enough to have attended the secondary modern down the road???? |  | | |
| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 09:28 - Aug 7 with 1771 views | perchrockjack |
I hated my Grammar school probably because you were always under pressure to perform and pass exams.
That said, what Ive learned has stood me in good stead.
We have Grammar schools on the Wirral and my kids got a a good education and discipline was good there. Still is. | |
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| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 11:25 - Aug 7 with 1747 views | tf_jack |
| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 09:00 - Aug 7 by jackb |
Would you support the system if you were 'unfortunate' enough to have attended the secondary modern down the road???? |
Yes |  |
| Tough times don't last. Tough people do.
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| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 16:16 - Aug 7 with 1732 views | Davillin |
| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 09:28 - Aug 7 by perchrockjack |
I hated my Grammar school probably because you were always under pressure to perform and pass exams.
That said, what Ive learned has stood me in good stead.
We have Grammar schools on the Wirral and my kids got a a good education and discipline was good there. Still is. |
Thanks, Perchrockjack, for a mildly conflicted answer. 
Because of my background, I choose to emphasize your second and third sentences rather than your first. When I taught - high school and university - I insisted that my students not even begin to evaluate their educational experience, especially its successes - until a minimum of five years after they had finished it.
I sincerely believe that it takes at least that long to forget the hard work, pressure, and courses they didn't want to take  , and to recognize the benefits of them.
I graduated from high school in 1954, from a system completely different from the public education of today, where I had virtually no choice in what courses I took, and had to work hard at nearly everything. In six years of junior and senior high school, there was absolutely only one "elective" course available - typing, one year only, one class meeting a week, and I had to give up my one and only "study hall" to take it. I have always been glad I did.
To this day, I recognize that the two courses that had the most real value to me - from every level from elementary to post-graduate - were two that I struggled at every day. Strangely, perhaps, they were Latin and Gymnastics. The latter taught me to discipline my body, and the former taught me to discipline my mind. | |
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| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 18:05 - Aug 7 with 1705 views | Dr_Winston |
Removing them in the first place was an act of social vandalism that bright kids from poor backgrounds are still paying the price for. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 19:14 - Aug 7 with 1695 views | monmouth |
| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 18:05 - Aug 7 by Dr_Winston |
Removing them in the first place was an act of social vandalism that bright kids from poor backgrounds are still paying the price for. |
I was the first year of comprehensives and given my experiences at Penlan, I can only agree. I did recover but it took a good ten years after I left before I realised how much I could have achieved in a class of folk that wanted to learn with some proper teaching. I'm not sure what needs to be done* but something does. Like Dav, I now lecture at one of our 'premier' (their word) universities and the standard of the students at 18, many with very top grades, beggars belief. Machines that can remember things, spew it back and pass exams, but cannot think for themselves..
*sorry drifted into education generally....just the mention of Penlan brought on the red mist... [Post edited 7 Aug 2013 19:22]
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| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 19:59 - Aug 7 with 1677 views | mawdlamjack |
i went to dynevor, in the fourth year they turned it into a comp, downhill fast from then, after i left they even let girls in ffs
a decent education is the least any child deserves
bring back the 11 + |  |
| on the northbank since 64 now languishing in the east stand |
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| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 21:00 - Aug 7 with 1647 views | perchrockjack |
Im always in conflict DAV,normally with myself | |
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| Return to Grammar Schools in Wales? Good article. Opinions appreciated. on 21:48 - Aug 7 with 1634 views | NOTRAC |
For the best kids comprehensives are probably as good,if not better than grammar schools. For kids just below that top level there are too many distractions ,their academic skills are not helped as much.So many are affected by those that are not interested in learning at all. | |
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