| Advice requested on shower door shattering 10:43 - Feb 17 with 6530 views | RangersDave |
Hi everybody, am after some asvice from the 'sages' that are out here please?
Sat in front of the telly last night, having a lovely sweet & sour when there was a roaring like a large firework being let off outside.
Indeed, so loud was it we both ran to either door to chase off the culprits, only to find no one there.
Confused by the sound we started a search only to find that the shower / bath screen had shattered and deposited 90% of the glass into the bath, damaging the thick polycarbonate bath.
So today, we contacted the insurance and was told that the bath was covered under the house home and contents insurance but the shower screen would need a report by an expert to ascertain what went wrong with the screen! 🤬😖😤
They will replace the bath but not the screen until we have had a report on it. Well good luck with that, the tempered glass shattered into thousands of pieces, soi'm not sure if someone can figure out what caused it, as we were eating tea at the time.
So meanwhile, the insurance say nope, not touching it until you have a report, and we dont want to use the bath as the chip, gouge and scrape onto the polycarbonate might weaken the bath if either of us decided to have one.
Any thoughts / help please?
Cheers
Dave |  |
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 11:16 - Feb 17 with 5898 views | ted_hendrix |
For free advice e-mail technical@ggf.org.uk.
They are the Glass and Glazing Federation who offer free advice. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 11:49 - Feb 17 with 5813 views | CateLeBonR |
Sounds like a right pain… |  | | |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 11:59 - Feb 17 with 5771 views | LazyFan |
I was throwing out a glass pain from a shower bath like that once. I had it outside the home, right at the bin, I put it down very carefully for one sec and it shattered into a gazillion pieces.
Spent ages sweeping it up and then trying to find all those small unfindable pieces as well. Took fecking ages. These things shatter because they just get old or you get unlucky. Any number of scientific reasons that are not worth the time investigating. |  |
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 12:21 - Feb 17 with 5721 views | DannyPaddox |
This often happens when crew members of the USS Starship Enterprise are beamed down using faulty coordinates. |  | | |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 12:42 - Feb 17 with 5673 views | stowmarketrange |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 11:59 - Feb 17 by LazyFan |
I was throwing out a glass pain from a shower bath like that once. I had it outside the home, right at the bin, I put it down very carefully for one sec and it shattered into a gazillion pieces.
Spent ages sweeping it up and then trying to find all those small unfindable pieces as well. Took fecking ages. These things shatter because they just get old or you get unlucky. Any number of scientific reasons that are not worth the time investigating. |
I did similar with a glass oven door when I leaned it against my garden fence.The wind blew the gate shut and the door shattered on the ground.The small pieces of glass went everywhere. |  | | |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 13:30 - Feb 17 with 5577 views | Mick_S |
Same - was moving a glass table top in the garden - a tiny touch against a brick and one million pieces all over the garden and my heed. Half of them are still there, they look lovely in the sun. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 13:33 - Feb 17 with 5570 views | slmrstid |
I had a rear windscreen on a Vauxhall Corsa I owned once spontaneously shatter. Got to it to find the back window disappeared and a million and one shards of glass everywhere, assumed at first it had been broken into, but there was nothing inside to show it had been broken into like a brick or rock, nothing stolen, no damage on the back of the car as if someone had hit a bumper instead to smash it, and we noticed the bits of the window that were left were facing outwards, suggested it had shattered outside from inside.
Proper, proper weird. Never seen it before or since. Unless I had some sort of hidden troll trapped in the car that needed to smash its way out! |  | | |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 14:04 - Feb 17 with 5500 views | R_from_afar |
Sorry to hear about the hassle, good luck with it.
It wasn't as bad as a glass related problem, but recently, I needed to dig something out of a yellow plastic bag it had been stored in for donkeys' years.
I pulled the bag out of its corner whereupon it crumbled into a cloud of countless, miniscule pieces. It made a right mess. It's frightening to think what damage plastic material like that could do if casually tossed into hedgerows or streams |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 14:56 - Feb 17 with 5400 views | colinallcars |
Is this the door in our dressing room that closes on our shower (of). |  | | |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 17:43 - Feb 17 with 5209 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
You are not getting much help with your request RangersDave and I am not much help either sorry .
I know the glass is designed to explode/shatter to avoid bad cuts but its never a nice experience when it does.
I was moving a stereo unit once when the door opened and the edge touched the ground and it exploded and frightened the crap out of me .
I would be more concerned with getting a new door out of your insurance to be honest the scratch /gouges could be fixed with a kit or the tub re-glazed with much less expense IMO |  | | |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 23:23 - Feb 18 with 4998 views | PunteR |
Firstly i reckon your bath will still be fine to use.
Ive popped a couple of shower screens in the past via fitting or moving and it shatters that way for safety reasons. Same as glass on cars etc. It does make a bang when it goes and can be alarming but its not shards of sharp glass .
Shower screens don't just explode on their own, so i think you need to go to the manufactures or the company that supplied and fitted it. Same as if your tv just exploded in front of you.
If the bath is damaged, get the shower screen manufactures/suppliers/ fitters to foot the bill. [Post edited 18 Feb 23:36]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 12:37 - Feb 21 with 4743 views | hovehoop |
Spontaneous breakage of toughened glass can be attributed to nickel sulphide inclusion. This is a foreign body that can become trapped in the glass during manufacture. The nickel sulphide inclusion undergoes a time and temperature related phase change causing it to grow in volume. The force of that phase change exceeds the strength of the surrounding glass causing it to break. Nickel sulphide is a particular problem with toughened glass because of its integral stresses in opposition to the inclusion. So, toughened glass should be made to BS EN 12150. Published authority states that such glass has a risk of spontaneous breakage from nickel sulphide in the range of 1 in 4 to 6 tonnes of toughened glass supplied. Toughened glass begins as ordinary float glass. It is then floated on a bed of rollers and warmed while moving back and forth. The glass is then cooled rapidly by jets of cold air. This imparts compressive stress in the glass surface and balancing tensile stress in the body of the glass. The toughening process imparts the glass with greater resistance to heat and mechanical load compared to ordinary float/annealed glass. And toughened glass is also considered to break safely by failing into small dices or particles that disintegrate and fall to the ground. This is different from float glass that can break into dangerous shards that can cause injury. So toughened glass is commonly described as a 'safety glass' and it is why it is used in shower screens and in other vulnerable applications. This has been a recognised problem for some years and there have been lots of such breakages in buildings and high profile legal cases. The industry responded by introducing a quality control technique called 'heat soaking'. This takes toughened glass and puts it in an oven and heats the glass for a set period. The idea of heat soaking is to promote the phase change of any inclusions within the glass so that the glass pops while in the glass works. Heat soaking supposedly changes the breakage risk to 1 in 400 tonnes of glass supplied and such glass must be stamped to say it is made to BS EN 14179. The loud bang that you hear when toughened glass breaks is from release of its internal stresses. Toughened glass can also break from impact if you sufficiently gauge the surface to the point of penetrating the outer compressive zone but such failure would normally be instantaneous and you would be aware of the thing causing damage. So, absent any other explanation you might want to tell you insurers the above explanation. Sometimes, if you're lucky, the glass hangs in position until the effects of gravity or a wind gust say cause it to fall out. In those situations, you can sometimes trace the origin of the break to a butterfly pattern or back to back double D pattern and in the straight line of the butterfly you can sometimes see a very fine spec that is the nickel sulphide inclusion. I've previously retrieved lots of these and had them formally identified in a laboratory under a powerful microscope. But, identification is usually impossible when all of the particles fall out and disperse as in your case. I hope that this helps. [Post edited 21 Feb 12:39]
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 13:57 - Feb 21 with 4621 views | RangersDave |
Hi guys,
Thanks for your help.
I managed to find the original paperwork and receipt for the shower door (purchased it 28 months ago), and found that the door had a 20 year warranty, and they are sending me a new one this week.
Same screw holes etc so willbe a doddle to fit. result. | |
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 14:07 - Feb 21 with 4596 views | hovehoop |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 13:57 - Feb 21 by RangersDave |
Hi guys,
Thanks for your help.
I managed to find the original paperwork and receipt for the shower door (purchased it 28 months ago), and found that the door had a 20 year warranty, and they are sending me a new one this week.
Same screw holes etc so willbe a doddle to fit. result. |
Haha I needn't have gone fully in to 'work mode' describing nickel sulphide inclusions. When you get your new screen, it should have an identification stamp in one of the glass corners. It should be marked with one of BS EN 12150 or BS EN 14179 if processed in Europe. Take a photo for your records. Also, when you receive the new glass check there are no damaged edges (it should be ground flat and sometimes the edges are polished also) or deep surface scratches. Any damage inherently weakens the glass and acts like a stress raiser from which cracks/breakage can propagate in future. So, damaged glass should be returned. | | | |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 14:14 - Feb 21 with 4579 views | ted_hendrix |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 14:07 - Feb 21 by hovehoop |
Haha I needn't have gone fully in to 'work mode' describing nickel sulphide inclusions. When you get your new screen, it should have an identification stamp in one of the glass corners. It should be marked with one of BS EN 12150 or BS EN 14179 if processed in Europe. Take a photo for your records. Also, when you receive the new glass check there are no damaged edges (it should be ground flat and sometimes the edges are polished also) or deep surface scratches. Any damage inherently weakens the glass and acts like a stress raiser from which cracks/breakage can propagate in future. So, damaged glass should be returned. |
BSI Kite mark. | |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 14:35 - Feb 21 with 4545 views | PunteR |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 13:57 - Feb 21 by RangersDave |
Hi guys,
Thanks for your help.
I managed to find the original paperwork and receipt for the shower door (purchased it 28 months ago), and found that the door had a 20 year warranty, and they are sending me a new one this week.
Same screw holes etc so willbe a doddle to fit. result. |
I would double check those existing screw holes as they might be the course of the screen breaking. They might not be lined up and levelled right, coursing strain on the glass. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 20:57 - Feb 21 with 4404 views | GloryHunter |
It might be nickel sulfide (as we are now supposed to spell it) inclusions, or it might not. I used to have contact with some very knowledgeable fenestration surveyors and engineers, and they reckoned Nickel Sulfide inclusions were often used as a blanket excuse for what was often poor fitting practice. If you make the tiniest nick in the edge of a sheet of glass - even by resting it momentarily on a grain of sand on your steel toe cap boot - then it has the potential to spread (laminated glass) or shatter (toughened glass). Maybe in an hour, or a week, or a year, or five years in the future. It's a very interesting material, glass. |  | | |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 21:20 - Feb 21 with 4366 views | Lblock |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 14:35 - Feb 21 by PunteR |
I would double check those existing screw holes as they might be the course of the screen breaking. They might not be lined up and levelled right, coursing strain on the glass. |
This
Almost always with these although the above "spontaneous explosion" is not unheard and has actually happened to me.
Once was velux rooflight.
Exploded in the middle of the night in our bathroom. Inner pane only. That's part of the safety design I'm told.
We thought it was our cat trying to jump at something like a bird on the roof at 1:00am but it was just a glass fault. Too old to get anything from Velux
Another one - mate of mine. Huge rooflight above his kitchen island. Exactly same as shower screen but with the safety film layer so no mess (yet).
This is a £6k insurance matter and they are pushing back.
Thankfully "somebody" wised my mate up and his report is that he whacked it with the hoover whilst cleaning cobwebs on a very hot day.
Insurance companies don't tend to cover things just blowing up. Needs a reason. If you have accidental damage cover then use it - be clumsy. |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 09:32 - Feb 22 with 4229 views | Antti_Heinola |
Just to add my two-penneth.
I was in a pub once having a pint. I said something and moved my hand to help make my point, and the very tip of my pinkie flicked the pint, barely touching it. The glass fair exploded into a million pieces.
I was told that it was a bit like the straw breaking the camel's back: the glass had probably been knocked and banged about over the years and finally one tiny bang more fatally weakened it.
And I lost most of the pint. Still upsets me now. |  |
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 10:46 - Feb 22 with 4180 views | hovehoop |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 20:57 - Feb 21 by GloryHunter |
It might be nickel sulfide (as we are now supposed to spell it) inclusions, or it might not. I used to have contact with some very knowledgeable fenestration surveyors and engineers, and they reckoned Nickel Sulfide inclusions were often used as a blanket excuse for what was often poor fitting practice. If you make the tiniest nick in the edge of a sheet of glass - even by resting it momentarily on a grain of sand on your steel toe cap boot - then it has the potential to spread (laminated glass) or shatter (toughened glass). Maybe in an hour, or a week, or a year, or five years in the future. It's a very interesting material, glass. |
I sometimes defer to the original spelling when nickel sulphide/sulfide failures were prominent in the early 90's. You can't assert a failure cause without preferably seeing what remains of the cracked/shattered glass insitu. I agree that poor glazing practice is an issue too, along with damage from transportation and handling. Which is why edge/surface damaged glass should not be installed. In a case where the shattered toughened glass had fallen out, someone was tasked with collecting and sifting all of the particles and they did in fact find the nickel sulphide particle embedded in a glass dice from the seat of the break. Another case to do with a large shopping centre with a complicated glass roof had a team of representatives peering over the glass installation and discussing the migratory patterns of birds in the area as they believed that birds were picking-up roof ballast in their beaks then dropping it on the glass. Although this has been known to happen, the true cause of these breakages was a disgruntled employee who used his free time to go on to the roof and lob stones at the glass. Another building alongside the Chiswick flyover had multiple failures and while the early investigations considered traditional failure causes, the real cause was someone taking pot shots at the building when passing in a vehicle. Which fenestration surveyors/engineers have you worked with? I may have dealt with them too. [Post edited 22 Feb 10:48]
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 10:51 - Feb 22 with 4165 views | enfieldargh |
I cut my foot in the kitchen, trod on what I thought was a thorn as I had carried some garden waste through the house.
Blood everywhere and wouldnt stop. My wife is a trained school nurse eventually called an ambulance.
Ultra sound scan/xrays taked and the wound on my foot probed by Dr. Was told there was nothing there and if a thorn it would break down.
Told to walk on it.
CUT a very long story short 4 months later discovered a 2cm shard of glass embedded in my foot.
Received an apology and a large cheque for my troubles.
Turned out a pyrex jug got chipped, piece fell on the kitchen floor and I trod on it!!!!! |  |
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 12:14 - Feb 22 with 4107 views | hovehoop |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 21:20 - Feb 21 by Lblock |
This
Almost always with these although the above "spontaneous explosion" is not unheard and has actually happened to me.
Once was velux rooflight.
Exploded in the middle of the night in our bathroom. Inner pane only. That's part of the safety design I'm told.
We thought it was our cat trying to jump at something like a bird on the roof at 1:00am but it was just a glass fault. Too old to get anything from Velux
Another one - mate of mine. Huge rooflight above his kitchen island. Exactly same as shower screen but with the safety film layer so no mess (yet).
This is a £6k insurance matter and they are pushing back.
Thankfully "somebody" wised my mate up and his report is that he whacked it with the hoover whilst cleaning cobwebs on a very hot day.
Insurance companies don't tend to cover things just blowing up. Needs a reason. If you have accidental damage cover then use it - be clumsy. |
Very good point about reading the insurance policies in place and seeing what they will or will not cover. Personally, I don't specify overhead glass in which the inner leaf is monolithic toughened. Although, it is termed a 'safety glass', such that the failed glass is supposed to form into relatively harmless particles, it can in fact fall out in large clusters of interlinked particles that disintegrate only on impacting something or someone below. So, I normally go with a laminated inner leaf with either toughened or heat strengthened or a combination of these glass leaves each side of the interlayer. The idea is that if one of the leaves breaks then the interlayer and opposite intact glass leaf should hold it in place until the unit is renewed. Safety films have been applied retrospectively to the inner glass surface, sometimes as a safety measure. But it is necessary to trap the film edges in the peripheral glazing rebates (assuming it's a framed installation) or by mechanically secured angles, otherwise you can have a sheet of failed toughened glass falling to the ground and wrapping itself around the nearest object or person. The distance from which the glass falls and its momentum also has some bearing on the risk from failed falling glass. | | | |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 13:35 - Feb 22 with 4039 views | hubble |
Do bad fenestration engineers get defenestrated? |  |
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| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 13:44 - Feb 22 with 4020 views | hovehoop |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 13:35 - Feb 22 by hubble |
Do bad fenestration engineers get defenestrated? |
De-skinned!
On the basis that a building facade is sometimes expressed as a building skin! | | | |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 13:56 - Feb 22 with 4004 views | Lblock |
| Advice requested on shower door shattering on 13:35 - Feb 22 by hubble |
Do bad fenestration engineers get defenestrated? |
Having been in the industry for over 30 years I've found that glaziers are the most honest subcontractors around, always had no issue with their Final Accounts.
There's no point in them lying
You can see right through them.
(Where's my coat.............) | |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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