| Kwarteng’s Budget 10:33 - Sep 23 with 21804 views | PatfromPoole |
Blimey.
Suicidal stuff politically, methinks. |  |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 14:50 - Sep 28 with 1918 views | cocklebreath |
Is Liz still alive? I’ve see nothing of her since this sh!tstorm happened, taking a leaf out of Boris book and hiding in a fridge? |  |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 15:40 - Sep 28 with 1864 views | Bazza |
Thought I’d try to find some good news in the mini budget to reduce the number of heart attacks in the Lab/Libdem/commie faithful;
Windfall tax on energy companies same as Labour
Energy price cap
Basic rate tax down 1%
NI increase withdrawn
Stamp duty cut on house purchases
New investment zones
Simplification of family taxes underway
No doubt party zealots will say this is pretty weak, I don’t disagree but there is a war on causing a significant impact. Just for the record I’ve never been a member of any political party but have voted for the main three parties at different times. |  | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 15:57 - Sep 28 with 1850 views | DorsetIan |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 15:40 - Sep 28 by Bazza |
Thought I’d try to find some good news in the mini budget to reduce the number of heart attacks in the Lab/Libdem/commie faithful;
Windfall tax on energy companies same as Labour
Energy price cap
Basic rate tax down 1%
NI increase withdrawn
Stamp duty cut on house purchases
New investment zones
Simplification of family taxes underway
No doubt party zealots will say this is pretty weak, I don’t disagree but there is a war on causing a significant impact. Just for the record I’ve never been a member of any political party but have voted for the main three parties at different times. |
It's nothing to do with Party zealotry.
Boris Johnson had an 80 seat majority. He should have been set for at least two terms in government, more likely three.
He blew that and then the Tory membership - who seemed happy ignore the fact that there's a war on and many other pressures on the economy - chose to elect Truss and her casino economics rather than Sunak, who warned about all that is happening now in his debates with Truss.
It's carnage, and it's completely self-inflicted.
...and it ain't finished yet... | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 16:56 - Sep 28 with 1817 views | franniesTache |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 15:40 - Sep 28 by Bazza |
Thought I’d try to find some good news in the mini budget to reduce the number of heart attacks in the Lab/Libdem/commie faithful;
Windfall tax on energy companies same as Labour
Energy price cap
Basic rate tax down 1%
NI increase withdrawn
Stamp duty cut on house purchases
New investment zones
Simplification of family taxes underway
No doubt party zealots will say this is pretty weak, I don’t disagree but there is a war on causing a significant impact. Just for the record I’ve never been a member of any political party but have voted for the main three parties at different times. |
It's not really commie to suggest that,
The pound collapsing.
The markets crashing.
The housing market crashing and mortgages being pulled.
Pension companies coming within a day of going bust forcing a new round of quantitive easing.
Are the impact of the mini budget.
It's an unmitigated disaster, hands down the worst budget of my lifetime, probably the most dramatic single economic event of my lifetime and if it's mismanaged the way it currently is being much longer could lead to the UK Government asking the IMF to step in to save us (and we all saw how well that went in Greece).
Unless of course you think about 50% of the Conservative party are commies, the IMF, BoE, city of London and bankers and hedge funds who are shorting the economy are all commies? |  | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 19:29 - Sep 28 with 1715 views | JaySaint |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 16:56 - Sep 28 by franniesTache |
It's not really commie to suggest that,
The pound collapsing.
The markets crashing.
The housing market crashing and mortgages being pulled.
Pension companies coming within a day of going bust forcing a new round of quantitive easing.
Are the impact of the mini budget.
It's an unmitigated disaster, hands down the worst budget of my lifetime, probably the most dramatic single economic event of my lifetime and if it's mismanaged the way it currently is being much longer could lead to the UK Government asking the IMF to step in to save us (and we all saw how well that went in Greece).
Unless of course you think about 50% of the Conservative party are commies, the IMF, BoE, city of London and bankers and hedge funds who are shorting the economy are all commies? |
none of that crashing is actually happening though | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 19:44 - Sep 28 with 1700 views | Bazza |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 16:56 - Sep 28 by franniesTache |
It's not really commie to suggest that,
The pound collapsing.
The markets crashing.
The housing market crashing and mortgages being pulled.
Pension companies coming within a day of going bust forcing a new round of quantitive easing.
Are the impact of the mini budget.
It's an unmitigated disaster, hands down the worst budget of my lifetime, probably the most dramatic single economic event of my lifetime and if it's mismanaged the way it currently is being much longer could lead to the UK Government asking the IMF to step in to save us (and we all saw how well that went in Greece).
Unless of course you think about 50% of the Conservative party are commies, the IMF, BoE, city of London and bankers and hedge funds who are shorting the economy are all commies? |
Never called anyone a commie!
Just trying to bring a little balance to the ranting on here, but be my guest knock yourself out !
Maybe you’re young enough not to have experienced a like ‘disaster’ before. Sure the city is going nuts, perhaps they should focus on the Bank not acting sooner considering the huge sums being spent funding Ukraine and the energy cap.
Don’t listen to Dorset Ian, he’s still trying to get over Brexit. You’re not also are you? | | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 20:40 - Sep 28 with 1653 views | Southamptonfan |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 19:29 - Sep 28 by JaySaint |
none of that crashing is actually happening though |
They are talking about efficiency savings now for working people!!! So cutback on public services, schools, hospitals, all to pay millionaires, billionaires and football players on 2 million a month, a load more money!!! There will be riots on the streets. It's f@cking disgraceful.
I'm not a Tory supporter, but f@ck I thought the Boris outers were well off the mark. He lied and ate a bit of cake. Yes, wrong but I'd rather that than lose my pension. Now we've got worse. | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 20:48 - Sep 28 with 1647 views | PatfromPoole |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 19:29 - Sep 28 by JaySaint |
none of that crashing is actually happening though |
It is though.
A General Election in the next few months is looking inevitable.
Truss was insane to have no Sunak allies in her Cabinet, not least given the number of chief whips amongst them. DorsetIan talks a lot of sense about Sunak seeing all this coming. | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 20:56 - Sep 28 with 1640 views | JaySaint |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 20:48 - Sep 28 by PatfromPoole |
It is though.
A General Election in the next few months is looking inevitable.
Truss was insane to have no Sunak allies in her Cabinet, not least given the number of chief whips amongst them. DorsetIan talks a lot of sense about Sunak seeing all this coming. |
it isnt though. I am buying a house and nothing has changed. | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 20:59 - Sep 28 with 1625 views | JaySaint |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 20:40 - Sep 28 by Southamptonfan |
They are talking about efficiency savings now for working people!!! So cutback on public services, schools, hospitals, all to pay millionaires, billionaires and football players on 2 million a month, a load more money!!! There will be riots on the streets. It's f@cking disgraceful.
I'm not a Tory supporter, but f@ck I thought the Boris outers were well off the mark. He lied and ate a bit of cake. Yes, wrong but I'd rather that than lose my pension. Now we've got worse. |
seriously, what did you expect? We just came out of a 2 year lockdown, where £300bn was given to people to sit on their arses.
We are now paying for the endless war in Ukraine. The Euro is on the verge of collapse.
None of the above is free (and so many warned of it all)
Our security guard is having a proxy war with the dude who supplies much of our fuel. And we just just throwing endless cash at it. | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 21:06 - Sep 28 with 1600 views | Southamptonfan |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 20:59 - Sep 28 by JaySaint |
seriously, what did you expect? We just came out of a 2 year lockdown, where £300bn was given to people to sit on their arses.
We are now paying for the endless war in Ukraine. The Euro is on the verge of collapse.
None of the above is free (and so many warned of it all)
Our security guard is having a proxy war with the dude who supplies much of our fuel. And we just just throwing endless cash at it. |
I agree we are in a state due to a number of factors which have nothing to do with the government. But what people won't take is working people paying the consequences of these world events, whilst rich people get richer. Ronaldo buys another 3 Ferraris whilst working people can't pay their mortgage. People won't accept that. It's the wrong f@cking time for tax cuts for billionaires. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 21:07]
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 21:11 - Sep 28 with 1584 views | JaySaint |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 21:06 - Sep 28 by Southamptonfan |
I agree we are in a state due to a number of factors which have nothing to do with the government. But what people won't take is working people paying the consequences of these world events, whilst rich people get richer. Ronaldo buys another 3 Ferraris whilst working people can't pay their mortgage. People won't accept that. It's the wrong f@cking time for tax cuts for billionaires. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 21:07]
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People were all too happy to sit at home, receive free money and bash-boris all summer 2020.
None of that was free, and here we are just as we are throwing money into the Ukraine fire. How else pays for it?
Europe is screwed, just look at the Euro to see how much. A tax cut to bring the top rate down to Tony Blair levels will not make any difference to the above
The tax cut you cry about is also benefitting me, and I am no billionaire thank you [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 21:12]
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 21:28 - Sep 28 with 1558 views | grumpy |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 21:11 - Sep 28 by JaySaint |
People were all too happy to sit at home, receive free money and bash-boris all summer 2020.
None of that was free, and here we are just as we are throwing money into the Ukraine fire. How else pays for it?
Europe is screwed, just look at the Euro to see how much. A tax cut to bring the top rate down to Tony Blair levels will not make any difference to the above
The tax cut you cry about is also benefitting me, and I am no billionaire thank you [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 21:12]
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So people were happy to sit at home, receive free money were they?
Not knowing if their job would still be there at the end of it.
Seriously,have a another look at what you have just posted.........
Makes no sense. |  | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 21:52 - Sep 28 with 1530 views | Southamptonfan |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 21:11 - Sep 28 by JaySaint |
People were all too happy to sit at home, receive free money and bash-boris all summer 2020.
None of that was free, and here we are just as we are throwing money into the Ukraine fire. How else pays for it?
Europe is screwed, just look at the Euro to see how much. A tax cut to bring the top rate down to Tony Blair levels will not make any difference to the above
The tax cut you cry about is also benefitting me, and I am no billionaire thank you [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 21:12]
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Football players, who already earn five hundred thousand pounds a week, should not get a load more, at the same time that people will have interest rates rise on their mortgages so much that they can't afford to keep their home. Why do football players deserve more money, when they can already afford to.live so well? Say what you like, they have made a massive f@cking mistake and will be out at the next election, when otherwise they might not have been. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 21:54]
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 23:22 - Sep 28 with 1455 views | saintwizzler |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 20:56 - Sep 28 by JaySaint |
it isnt though. I am buying a house and nothing has changed. |
Bullshit |  |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 23:23 - Sep 28 with 1454 views | cocklebreath |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 20:56 - Sep 28 by JaySaint |
it isnt though. I am buying a house and nothing has changed. |
You sorted your mortgage out before it went tits up, if you’d have done it now you’d be f@cked, that’s just lucky. Nothing worse than a look at me life’s great smug Tory twit. You’d never been able to afford the new Lonsdale range | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 06:06 - Sep 29 with 1389 views | JaySaint |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 21:28 - Sep 28 by grumpy |
So people were happy to sit at home, receive free money were they?
Not knowing if their job would still be there at the end of it.
Seriously,have a another look at what you have just posted.........
Makes no sense. |
Does not matter if they were happy about it, most of the country were demanding it.
Nothing is free, and the money spent in the pandemic was enormous. Printing hundreds of billions of £ will come with a massive shock. It now needs to be paid back. Throw in the endless war in Ukraine, which is making this worse.
The Euro is on the verge of collapse, is that the Tories fault also?
The 45%-40% tax cut is meaningless in all of the this. Just an excuse to hate the Tories [Post edited 29 Sep 2022 6:37]
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 08:10 - Sep 29 with 1293 views | saintwizzler |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 06:06 - Sep 29 by JaySaint |
Does not matter if they were happy about it, most of the country were demanding it.
Nothing is free, and the money spent in the pandemic was enormous. Printing hundreds of billions of £ will come with a massive shock. It now needs to be paid back. Throw in the endless war in Ukraine, which is making this worse.
The Euro is on the verge of collapse, is that the Tories fault also?
The 45%-40% tax cut is meaningless in all of the this. Just an excuse to hate the Tories [Post edited 29 Sep 2022 6:37]
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5% tax cut is meaningless?
Us peasants got a 1% cut.
Pointless. | |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 09:57 - Sep 29 with 1239 views | franniesTache |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 06:06 - Sep 29 by JaySaint |
Does not matter if they were happy about it, most of the country were demanding it.
Nothing is free, and the money spent in the pandemic was enormous. Printing hundreds of billions of £ will come with a massive shock. It now needs to be paid back. Throw in the endless war in Ukraine, which is making this worse.
The Euro is on the verge of collapse, is that the Tories fault also?
The 45%-40% tax cut is meaningless in all of the this. Just an excuse to hate the Tories [Post edited 29 Sep 2022 6:37]
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The 45%-50% is deeply meaningful in this because it's what's spooked the markets.
Fundamentally the government have removed a significant revenue stream and replaced it with borrowing.
It's sort of the equivalent of you going to the bank and asking for a loan and telling them you're going to use to it to quit your job on the hope that you might get a better one later that will pay the loan back | | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 10:35 - Sep 29 with 1215 views | Bazza |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 09:57 - Sep 29 by franniesTache |
The 45%-50% is deeply meaningful in this because it's what's spooked the markets.
Fundamentally the government have removed a significant revenue stream and replaced it with borrowing.
It's sort of the equivalent of you going to the bank and asking for a loan and telling them you're going to use to it to quit your job on the hope that you might get a better one later that will pay the loan back |
Your analogy is double counting and wrong | | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 10:45 - Sep 29 with 1208 views | DorsetIan |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 10:35 - Sep 29 by Bazza |
Your analogy is double counting and wrong |
The analogy is spot on.
The 45% cut will lose the treasure, I understand, about £2billion/yr. To cover the lost money, they will borrow it.
So the country will now pay interest on the £2billion borrowed and people owning over £150,000 will collectively have another £2billion in their pockets each year.
The idea is that the effect of the change will be to generate additional growth necessary to meet the additional interest and to eventually pay back the debt.
But the £2 billion in an annual cost and the cost of borrowing has leapt significantly since Friday.
Please explain if you disagree. Where's the double counting? | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 11:32 - Sep 29 with 1155 views | franniesTache |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 10:35 - Sep 29 by Bazza |
Your analogy is double counting and wrong |
My analogy comes from the former head of the bank of england.
I also see you tried to patronise me earlier by commenting on age. Well I doubt anyone here is old enough to have ever seen a crisis like this (and frankly no one on the Ugly is young).
The decision of the mini budget led to a self made crisis that's entirely different to 2008 (which was the sub prime market and led from the states), 1992 and leaving the EMF, and even the crash of the early/mid 80s.
We really need to get away from partisan support of bad decisions because of who made them, we need to call out those that make bad decisions no matter what colour tie they wear. | | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 11:44 - Sep 29 with 1141 views | Bazza |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 10:45 - Sep 29 by DorsetIan |
The analogy is spot on.
The 45% cut will lose the treasure, I understand, about £2billion/yr. To cover the lost money, they will borrow it.
So the country will now pay interest on the £2billion borrowed and people owning over £150,000 will collectively have another £2billion in their pockets each year.
The idea is that the effect of the change will be to generate additional growth necessary to meet the additional interest and to eventually pay back the debt.
But the £2 billion in an annual cost and the cost of borrowing has leapt significantly since Friday.
Please explain if you disagree. Where's the double counting? |
You're right, double counting would be too simplistic. As you say in theory extra growth will be generated but costs have risen dramatically because of the panic in the City and slow Bank reaction - till now.
I still argue that the main cause of the financial crisis is Putin (and China) not the recent mini Budget though the reduced tax is not a good look. | | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:00 - Sep 29 with 1122 views | Bazza |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 11:32 - Sep 29 by franniesTache |
My analogy comes from the former head of the bank of england.
I also see you tried to patronise me earlier by commenting on age. Well I doubt anyone here is old enough to have ever seen a crisis like this (and frankly no one on the Ugly is young).
The decision of the mini budget led to a self made crisis that's entirely different to 2008 (which was the sub prime market and led from the states), 1992 and leaving the EMF, and even the crash of the early/mid 80s.
We really need to get away from partisan support of bad decisions because of who made them, we need to call out those that make bad decisions no matter what colour tie they wear. |
No intention to patronise you. Nor am I making any partisan support of bad decisions, I just feel there is a politicised over-reaction here to what is a serious situation due mainly to outside factors. | | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:04 - Sep 29 with 1118 views | franniesTache |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 11:44 - Sep 29 by Bazza |
You're right, double counting would be too simplistic. As you say in theory extra growth will be generated but costs have risen dramatically because of the panic in the City and slow Bank reaction - till now.
I still argue that the main cause of the financial crisis is Putin (and China) not the recent mini Budget though the reduced tax is not a good look. |
Well it depends, if you listen to the tory mp's the main reason is Putin.
If however you listen to economists, traders and the current and former head of the bank of England and the IMF it's the mini budget.
To put it in context the fallout from the mini budget was that the cost of borrowing vs the tax cut spooked the markets as they didn't believe the growth was achievable.
This lead to a run on the markets, gilt markets, FTSE, foreign currency etc.
This saw the pound drop to it's lowest every level against the dollar (but now risen) which in turn spooked the housing market as mortgage brokers assumed that interest rates would have to rise (not unreasonably because the drop in the pound increased inflation as cost of good purchase from abroad became more expensive).
They pulled new deals waiting for the market to settle and to see how the BoE would react.
The combined impact of all these, but in particular the drop in the gilt market, saw the pensions industry freefall - 40% knocked off in a day, with some pension providers looking like they wouldn't make it through the day - which forced the BoE to step in and effectively underwrite the economy to the tune of £65bn
Now it's also fair to say the war in the Ukraine and other geopolitical events had seen a raise in inflation anyway, but all of these things happened in the wake of the mini budget, and nowhere else in the world has the currency, markets, pensions and housing market all collapsed in the space of a week.
I'm hopeful the BoE have adverted the worst of this with the quantitive easing they did (though to be fair they were also doing quantitative tightening in the gilt market prior to this), but it also seems obvious that there will either need to be substantial pull or reversal from the budget or horrendous cuts across the public sector in the UK, and that will most likely come from the NHS
This is a good non politicised viewing btw
[Post edited 29 Sep 2022 12:09]
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