| Millwall fans 21:34 - Aug 7 with 94635 views | Hayesender |
What a bunch of absolute cnts. Attacked my 11 year old stepson by nandos after the game, and my 16 year old stepson has ended up being arrested for kicking one of the cnts in the head to get him off his brother.
I was then arrested for defending myself against two of the cnts, and then de-arrested when it became clear I was only defending myself.
Sat at home now with grazed nuckles and want feels like a cracked rib.
Why, just why do we let these arseholes out at the same time to cause fcking havoc?
Fuming |  |
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| Millwall fans on 12:09 - Aug 9 with 7167 views | 80s__boy |
Brian, this is an exact copy and paste of what I put in the other thread:
"'I also have a few black colleagues that grew up in New Cross and told me the Den was no go on match day. A very different experience for Black and Asian people many years ago.'
And yet they had loads of black members of their hooligan firm - and ordinary fans, of course, and they were led by Tiny, a black man.... Same as West Ham who also had numerous black fans and a black leader of their hooligan firm
Take a look at the front of the mob in the first photo in this article and you'll see black men leading the charge...
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/feb/15/luton-millwall-1985-fa-cup
Also, although the BBC went on record on saying that the National Front used to frequently sell their scummy rag outside The Den and 'caught' sellers outside a match in 1977 in their infamous 'Panorama' show, the local Police subsequently confirmed that this was the first time they had seen them at the stadium and they were never seen again.
(interesting article here: http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/MillwallvTheRacist.htm)
I'm not saying that members of the Black and Asian communities didn't feel that they couldn't go to Millwall matches, but who created that fear and was it founded in reality?
It also didn't help that high profile players like John Barnes claimed in his autobiography that he was racially abused by Millwall fans when playing for Watford despite the fact that Watford NEVER played Millwall in the time he was playing for the former!
https://www.11v11.com/teams/millwall/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Watford/
"
I would also like to throw in the fact that The Guardian who, rightfully, praised the Sikh and Turkish men who protected their areas in the 2011 London riots, then said the Millwall fans who came out to defend Eltham only did so because an opportunity to attack black people had presented itself..
"When it's a large group of Millwall supporters, in a pub all day, talking about doing the police's job for them, it creates the impression that they're spoiling for a fight, opportunistically — using the chaos to bust into a racial confrontation that they normally wouldn't be permitted"
If you don't think Millwall fans, and people in the surrounding neighborhoods, don't suffer from prejudice because of some people with an agenda BECAUSE they are almost exclusively white and working class I think you are being incredibly niave... This is why I will always try to bring balance to anything to do with them or Bermondsey because if people let this shit pass by without criticism it brings nothing but trouble to a lot of good people... [Post edited 9 Aug 2021 12:11]
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| Millwall fans on 12:16 - Aug 9 with 7142 views | robith |
80s Boy, you've made your opinions clear in the other thread, not entirely sure we need you to copy and paste them to turn this into a complete retread |  | | |
| Millwall fans on 12:18 - Aug 9 with 7124 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Millwall fans on 12:09 - Aug 9 by 80s__boy |
Brian, this is an exact copy and paste of what I put in the other thread:
"'I also have a few black colleagues that grew up in New Cross and told me the Den was no go on match day. A very different experience for Black and Asian people many years ago.'
And yet they had loads of black members of their hooligan firm - and ordinary fans, of course, and they were led by Tiny, a black man.... Same as West Ham who also had numerous black fans and a black leader of their hooligan firm
Take a look at the front of the mob in the first photo in this article and you'll see black men leading the charge...
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/feb/15/luton-millwall-1985-fa-cup
Also, although the BBC went on record on saying that the National Front used to frequently sell their scummy rag outside The Den and 'caught' sellers outside a match in 1977 in their infamous 'Panorama' show, the local Police subsequently confirmed that this was the first time they had seen them at the stadium and they were never seen again.
(interesting article here: http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/MillwallvTheRacist.htm)
I'm not saying that members of the Black and Asian communities didn't feel that they couldn't go to Millwall matches, but who created that fear and was it founded in reality?
It also didn't help that high profile players like John Barnes claimed in his autobiography that he was racially abused by Millwall fans when playing for Watford despite the fact that Watford NEVER played Millwall in the time he was playing for the former!
https://www.11v11.com/teams/millwall/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Watford/
"
I would also like to throw in the fact that The Guardian who, rightfully, praised the Sikh and Turkish men who protected their areas in the 2011 London riots, then said the Millwall fans who came out to defend Eltham only did so because an opportunity to attack black people had presented itself..
"When it's a large group of Millwall supporters, in a pub all day, talking about doing the police's job for them, it creates the impression that they're spoiling for a fight, opportunistically — using the chaos to bust into a racial confrontation that they normally wouldn't be permitted"
If you don't think Millwall fans, and people in the surrounding neighborhoods, don't suffer from prejudice because of some people with an agenda BECAUSE they are almost exclusively white and working class I think you are being incredibly niave... This is why I will always try to bring balance to anything to do with them or Bermondsey because if people let this shit pass by without criticism it brings nothing but trouble to a lot of good people... [Post edited 9 Aug 2021 12:11]
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So you're saying that some of their violent thugs aren't racist. I'll honestly take your word for it.
But clearly they have a huge problem with racism as the article points out and is evidenced by the huge racism over the years on their message boards that we've witnessed.
And clearly they have a huge problem with violence.
I can't add any more to the conversation than that.
Take it easy. |  |
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| Millwall fans on 12:18 - Aug 9 with 7100 views | 80s__boy |
| Millwall fans on 12:16 - Aug 9 by robith |
80s Boy, you've made your opinions clear in the other thread, not entirely sure we need you to copy and paste them to turn this into a complete retread |
Fair point...
Apologies everyone ðŸ™
Enjoy the rest of the day everyone, COYRs | | | |
| Millwall fans on 12:20 - Aug 9 with 7085 views | 80s__boy |
| Millwall fans on 12:18 - Aug 9 by BrianMcCarthy |
So you're saying that some of their violent thugs aren't racist. I'll honestly take your word for it.
But clearly they have a huge problem with racism as the article points out and is evidenced by the huge racism over the years on their message boards that we've witnessed.
And clearly they have a huge problem with violence.
I can't add any more to the conversation than that.
Take it easy. |
The article you shared said that 15 Millwall fans had been arrested for racism in a season...
I'd feel uncomfortable with such a small amount of people being used to create stereotypes to be honest.
Enjoy the rest of the day mate 👠| | | |
| Millwall fans on 12:22 - Aug 9 with 7088 views | robith |
I'm glad it's all been resolved Hayes, and hope it isn't too traumatic for the lads.
I was gutted not to get a free scarf at the game (what can I say, I'm a scrounger), but was on the tube home very drunk at about 10pm, when suddenly 6 Millwall guys got on, absolutely caked in blood and sat directly next to me. My bones chilled, and I tried to act casual reading my book (thankfully i dress like enough of a hipster to "pass"). Apparently not content with us, they'd head to Wembley to fight Leicester fans and were now hopping tubes back and forth. Thankfully it was only one stop. I don't think I breathed the whole stop | | | |
| Millwall fans on 12:25 - Aug 9 with 7074 views | danehoop |
| Millwall fans on 12:09 - Aug 9 by 80s__boy |
Brian, this is an exact copy and paste of what I put in the other thread:
"'I also have a few black colleagues that grew up in New Cross and told me the Den was no go on match day. A very different experience for Black and Asian people many years ago.'
And yet they had loads of black members of their hooligan firm - and ordinary fans, of course, and they were led by Tiny, a black man.... Same as West Ham who also had numerous black fans and a black leader of their hooligan firm
Take a look at the front of the mob in the first photo in this article and you'll see black men leading the charge...
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/feb/15/luton-millwall-1985-fa-cup
Also, although the BBC went on record on saying that the National Front used to frequently sell their scummy rag outside The Den and 'caught' sellers outside a match in 1977 in their infamous 'Panorama' show, the local Police subsequently confirmed that this was the first time they had seen them at the stadium and they were never seen again.
(interesting article here: http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/MillwallvTheRacist.htm)
I'm not saying that members of the Black and Asian communities didn't feel that they couldn't go to Millwall matches, but who created that fear and was it founded in reality?
It also didn't help that high profile players like John Barnes claimed in his autobiography that he was racially abused by Millwall fans when playing for Watford despite the fact that Watford NEVER played Millwall in the time he was playing for the former!
https://www.11v11.com/teams/millwall/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Watford/
"
I would also like to throw in the fact that The Guardian who, rightfully, praised the Sikh and Turkish men who protected their areas in the 2011 London riots, then said the Millwall fans who came out to defend Eltham only did so because an opportunity to attack black people had presented itself..
"When it's a large group of Millwall supporters, in a pub all day, talking about doing the police's job for them, it creates the impression that they're spoiling for a fight, opportunistically — using the chaos to bust into a racial confrontation that they normally wouldn't be permitted"
If you don't think Millwall fans, and people in the surrounding neighborhoods, don't suffer from prejudice because of some people with an agenda BECAUSE they are almost exclusively white and working class I think you are being incredibly niave... This is why I will always try to bring balance to anything to do with them or Bermondsey because if people let this shit pass by without criticism it brings nothing but trouble to a lot of good people... [Post edited 9 Aug 2021 12:11]
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I respect your opinion, but fundamentally disagree with the notion of balance with Millwall fans.
Every game I have gone to with Millwall since the mid 80's has always, and I mean always, ended in them kicking off and causing trouble either in or around the ground. I have never had that with any other side. At the one away game I went to their place it took what felt like days to get home because of the enhanced protection required for visiting fans.
Now I am not saying that there isn't trouble with other sides, but the scale and predictability of trouble with Millwall is stupid and doesn't seem to subside/reduce the way that it has with other teams. And rather than get stuck in "what about-isms" with other teams and other events, the reality is that Millwall still haven't moved on. Their following seemingly comes intent in causing trouble wherever they go. That isn't a societal thing or about being unfairly picked on or singled out. No-one asks them to do it. They have a problem in their fanbase that has never been fully addressed or challenged by the authorities in the way that it should have been as the evidence indicates that problems still exist with them that are no prevalent elsewhere.
Sorry, I won't comment further. |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Millwall fans on 12:29 - Aug 9 with 7045 views | SydneyRs |
| Millwall fans on 11:34 - Aug 9 by 80s__boy |
If it was as high as 49.9% they would be getting less than 500 tickets for every away match. Even West Ham give them a couple of thousand on the rare occasions they play at Upton Park (obviously now the London stadium.)
A big problem is that, as I said last week, the idiots are too easily accepted over there and even though only a tiny minority are involved with any violence, too many embrace the reputation that comes with being a Millwall fan and, as a consequence, don't/won't challenge the club to eradicate the problem: if our idiots were causing us to be treated very differently I've no doubt that the club would be put under pressure to resolve it.
But at the end of the day it IS a minority of fans who cause trouble over there and on Saturday most Millwall fans behaved themselves. In the 2 videos shared on this thread hundreds walk pass the Shepherd’s Bush scene without causing trouble and in the Nandos video - which runs for less time, of course - dozens walk by minding their own business.
The idiots outside Nandos number about 6 and those involved at Shepherd’s Bush around 10, if that: in fact those involved at Shepherd’s Bush seem to walk pass a number of QPR fans with no incidents taking place and appear to react to something said by those they attack at Shepherd’s Bush. They're still idiots, as is everyone who fights at football, but let's not rule out the possibility that some of our own home grown idiots provoked them or are recognised 'faces' in the yob scene... Not justification by the way...
I won't comment much more on this thread now, but for the most part on Saturday it was no different to experiencing a large following from Leeds, Birmingham, Cardiff or Chelsea for example. |
I agree that every fan base has these types, but not in the number that they do. Their message boards are a different world to other clubs I've viewed. For example they were, and probably still are, absolutely obsessed with brexit. We have a few on here like that too, but it was rampant on their pages.
Yes only a few idiots actually threw punches, that's always the way, most of it is gutless posturing and shouting. However, many, many more are hurling verbal abuse and just enjoying/revelling in it. Its not in or outside a football ground, its in a busy high street type area with loads of families etc about. They are enjoying the fact they are scaring people and its absolutely pathetic. |  | | |
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| Millwall fans on 12:36 - Aug 9 with 6968 views | 80s__boy |
| Millwall fans on 12:29 - Aug 9 by SydneyRs |
I agree that every fan base has these types, but not in the number that they do. Their message boards are a different world to other clubs I've viewed. For example they were, and probably still are, absolutely obsessed with brexit. We have a few on here like that too, but it was rampant on their pages.
Yes only a few idiots actually threw punches, that's always the way, most of it is gutless posturing and shouting. However, many, many more are hurling verbal abuse and just enjoying/revelling in it. Its not in or outside a football ground, its in a busy high street type area with loads of families etc about. They are enjoying the fact they are scaring people and its absolutely pathetic. |
You should try to be a centrist on QPR Twitter!
No, as I say, no problem calling idiots such and the type you describe in your 2nd paragraph are just as big an idiot as those who throw punches. Don't want either at matches.
Apologies everyone for dragging this out again. Just very passionate about the area I grew up in and the good, decent people who have enough shit in their lives without being tarnished because of a minority of idiots.
You can blame Esox's ludicrous solution for this! | | | |
| Millwall fans on 12:42 - Aug 9 with 6950 views | thame_hoops |
| Millwall fans on 12:29 - Aug 9 by SydneyRs |
I agree that every fan base has these types, but not in the number that they do. Their message boards are a different world to other clubs I've viewed. For example they were, and probably still are, absolutely obsessed with brexit. We have a few on here like that too, but it was rampant on their pages.
Yes only a few idiots actually threw punches, that's always the way, most of it is gutless posturing and shouting. However, many, many more are hurling verbal abuse and just enjoying/revelling in it. Its not in or outside a football ground, its in a busy high street type area with loads of families etc about. They are enjoying the fact they are scaring people and its absolutely pathetic. |
Brexit you say......  |  | | |
| Millwall fans on 13:27 - Aug 9 with 6781 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Millwall fans on 12:36 - Aug 9 by 80s__boy |
You should try to be a centrist on QPR Twitter!
No, as I say, no problem calling idiots such and the type you describe in your 2nd paragraph are just as big an idiot as those who throw punches. Don't want either at matches.
Apologies everyone for dragging this out again. Just very passionate about the area I grew up in and the good, decent people who have enough shit in their lives without being tarnished because of a minority of idiots.
You can blame Esox's ludicrous solution for this! |
I am to blame for Millwall fans being a right bunch of cünts? Yeah I see how that is feasible... if you are blinkered. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Millwall fans on 13:32 - Aug 9 with 6761 views | Fenwick_115 |
| Millwall fans on 13:27 - Aug 9 by Esox_Lucius |
I am to blame for Millwall fans being a right bunch of cünts? Yeah I see how that is feasible... if you are blinkered. |
I think he was suggesting you were behind his posts defending Millwall fans and how passionate he was...
I also thought your solution was illogical too as I said yesterday. You should stop and think sometimes before posting if that's your normal manner. |  | | |
| Millwall fans on 13:42 - Aug 9 with 6717 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Millwall fans on 13:32 - Aug 9 by Fenwick_115 |
I think he was suggesting you were behind his posts defending Millwall fans and how passionate he was...
I also thought your solution was illogical too as I said yesterday. You should stop and think sometimes before posting if that's your normal manner. |
Maybe you need to concern yourself with how you conduct your own life and let others worry about how they lead theirs. | |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Millwall fans on 15:41 - Aug 9 with 6437 views | Juzzie |
"Apologies everyone for dragging this out again. Just very passionate about the area I grew up in and the good, decent people who have enough shit in their lives without being tarnished because of a minority of idiots."
Out of interest, how many Millwall fans are from and live in the local vicinity of the club? Virtually every club has their fan base spread far & wide which is why I hate that tired commentator cliché "the QPR fans will enjoy their trip back to Shepherds Bush having beaten Man Utd 10-0 at Old Trafford today".
It's just that I think we really do need to separate the high-minority thugs from the immediate area around The Den. I think it's perfectly feasible to condem those 'fans' (who, quite frankly, are cnts), without tarnishing the area.
[Post edited 9 Aug 2021 15:42]
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| Millwall fans on 16:26 - Aug 9 with 6298 views | Boston |
| Millwall fans on 11:55 - Aug 9 by 80s__boy |
This came up in discussion on the other thread...
Some things to consider:
* Racist Millwall are having the charge led by black fans.
* We rioted at Portman Road in the same season - the nadir of English football violence - wrecking a stand and throwing seats at Police and home supporters from the stand and on the pitch. This isn't brought out to use as a stick to beat us with 36 years later.
* Millwall had over 10,000 present at Kenilworth Road that day, about 300 are on the pitch.
* Significant amounts of Chelsea and Spurs fans were arrested as it was used by a cluster of London firms to get revenge against Luton for stabbing people. |
Rangers and Arsenal there as well. | |
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| Millwall fans on 16:43 - Aug 9 with 6202 views | Boston |
| Millwall fans on 15:41 - Aug 9 by Juzzie |
"Apologies everyone for dragging this out again. Just very passionate about the area I grew up in and the good, decent people who have enough shit in their lives without being tarnished because of a minority of idiots."
Out of interest, how many Millwall fans are from and live in the local vicinity of the club? Virtually every club has their fan base spread far & wide which is why I hate that tired commentator cliché "the QPR fans will enjoy their trip back to Shepherds Bush having beaten Man Utd 10-0 at Old Trafford today".
It's just that I think we really do need to separate the high-minority thugs from the immediate area around The Den. I think it's perfectly feasible to condem those 'fans' (who, quite frankly, are cnts), without tarnishing the area.
[Post edited 9 Aug 2021 15:42]
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Speaking with my Millwall colleague a few mins ago…asked him if any of his brothers had been at the game, did he get any feedback on the day? According to him, they saw one ‘scuffle’ and a bit of mouthing off around the Green, that they thought was provoked by some Rangers who were tailing them.
Oh, just asked him if they still have many fans living in SE London? Surprisingly he believes that Millwall have a higher than average number of regular attenders living in London, was told that by their box office staff a couple of years ago. Anecdotal I know, but I wouldn’t have a clue. | |
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| Millwall fans on 18:16 - Aug 9 with 5984 views | joe90 |
| Millwall fans on 15:41 - Aug 9 by Juzzie |
"Apologies everyone for dragging this out again. Just very passionate about the area I grew up in and the good, decent people who have enough shit in their lives without being tarnished because of a minority of idiots."
Out of interest, how many Millwall fans are from and live in the local vicinity of the club? Virtually every club has their fan base spread far & wide which is why I hate that tired commentator cliché "the QPR fans will enjoy their trip back to Shepherds Bush having beaten Man Utd 10-0 at Old Trafford today".
It's just that I think we really do need to separate the high-minority thugs from the immediate area around The Den. I think it's perfectly feasible to condem those 'fans' (who, quite frankly, are cnts), without tarnishing the area.
[Post edited 9 Aug 2021 15:42]
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I live in Lewisham and have done for a number of years. The impression I have is that there are a lot of Millwall fans living in the local area.
I've met many over the years and my experience has only ever been positive. However, there clearly is a problem with some of their fans when it comes to violence.
I've not known of club to have such a passionate local support, there's definitely something unique about Millwall and there relationship to the local area. [Post edited 9 Aug 2021 19:28]
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| Millwall fans on 19:18 - Aug 9 with 5775 views | ozranger |
| Millwall fans on 18:16 - Aug 9 by joe90 |
I live in Lewisham and have done for a number of years. The impression I have is that there are a lot of Millwall fans living in the local area.
I've met many over the years and my experience has only ever been positive. However, there clearly is a problem with some of their fans when it comes to violence.
I've not known of club to have such a passionate local support, there's definitely something unique about Millwall and there relationship to the local area. [Post edited 9 Aug 2021 19:28]
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I would probably agree with you there Joe. However, I think the demographics changing within Lewisham will see this alter as well. That said, probably the larger portion of Millwall supporters are those that live in the "outlier" suburbs of Lewisham Borough. The central area, Lewisham, Catford, Lee, St Johns, etc are changing as we speak. The large number of new high rises means more and more new people moving in, many who do not have the traditional roots of being in the Millwall catchment. The ethnicity of these newbies is also different to even probably ten years ago. I have been between Lewisham and Oz over the past five years and even within that time there have been significant changes. Simply go to Lewisham Shopping Centre on a weekday and you cannot but notice it. |  | | |
| Millwall fans on 19:36 - Aug 9 with 5700 views | thehat |
I just see them for what most of them are fat wannabe gangsters from Kent who like to wear Peaky Blinder hats every Saturday and talk like thier from Sarfffff……..
Pathetic bunch really…… | | | |
| Millwall fans on 20:04 - Aug 9 with 5609 views | Superhoops2808 |
I grew up on the outskirts of SE London and my Dad being a Lewisham boy was a die hard Millwall supporter. Despite much protesting I was regularly dragged along to the OLD Den as a youngster. The place was horrible and I am amazed it didnt put me off football for life. My first match experience as a 6 year old was walking along Cold Blow Lane and seeing a black guy up against a container having 7 bells knocked out of him by 4 Millwall supporters. My Dad said 'Dont look and keep walking straight ahead'... 46 years on I still remember that day and I could list many other incidents involving Millwall supporters and as I grew older to understand racism. For example, walking into Asian corner shops and walking out with handfuls of beer and telling the owner to shut up along with a few other choice words not for writing here.
They have, and always will be disgusting, racist hooligans and if you want to hold on to the thought its a minority then why do the majority not deal with them by having them banned? Because many of said majority are closet racists too.
My Dad as he got older stopped going because of it until it became the New Den which he considered a little better but not in my eyes.
Sorry to here about the incident Saturday Dave, and glad things got sorted with the boys. |  | | |
| Millwall fans on 20:40 - Aug 9 with 5506 views | joe90 |
| Millwall fans on 19:18 - Aug 9 by ozranger |
I would probably agree with you there Joe. However, I think the demographics changing within Lewisham will see this alter as well. That said, probably the larger portion of Millwall supporters are those that live in the "outlier" suburbs of Lewisham Borough. The central area, Lewisham, Catford, Lee, St Johns, etc are changing as we speak. The large number of new high rises means more and more new people moving in, many who do not have the traditional roots of being in the Millwall catchment. The ethnicity of these newbies is also different to even probably ten years ago. I have been between Lewisham and Oz over the past five years and even within that time there have been significant changes. Simply go to Lewisham Shopping Centre on a weekday and you cannot but notice it. |
I think Millwall are facing a similar problem as QPR in terms of attracting new fans, but will probably have a harder time due to their reputation.
If you want to see the clearest example of the changing demographic of the area visit Brockley market on a Saturday then go down to Lewisham market.
I just want to make clear, I'm not sticking up for Millwall, just talking about my experience of living in the area. What happened to Hayesender and his boys was disgusting. [Post edited 9 Aug 2021 20:41]
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| Millwall fans on 22:00 - Aug 9 with 5309 views | stevec |
Perhaps our club could explain why they let this lot out at the same time as our fans, seems absolutely crazy considering what we get put through when visiting the New Den.
Personally I’d happily allow Millwall to have SAR as their end next season, keep them locked in for an hour and let them cause thousands of pounds of improvements to the seating rather than kicking the hell of of innocent fans on Uxbridge Road. |  | | |
| Millwall fans on 23:56 - Aug 9 with 5142 views | CiderwithRsie |
Most people in most places are decent if you treat them like fellow human beings. Whatever you think of Millwall (and I'm really, really not a fan of them) I'm not keen on demonising whole areas. | | | |
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