| Simply put he has to go. 17:48 - Jan 1 with 12364 views | kiwidale |
The club is in turmoil both on and off the pitch toxic would be an understatement, If Hill is still in a job tomorrow then resign yourself for the inevitable and accept that something undesirable cannot be avoided. |  |
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| Simply put he has to go. on 19:37 - Jan 1 with 2632 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Simply put he has to go. on 18:29 - Jan 1 by James1980 |
So rest of this season and all of the 2019/20 season? Regardless of whether we are in League 1 or 2?
Sacking Hill will cost money and pro-rata imagine short contracts are more expensive.
Add to that giving the new manager a war chest. Would it be better saving Hill's severance pay and giving him a that money?
From a financial point of view can we afford to change managers on a regular basis? [Post edited 1 Jan 2019 18:36]
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"From a financial point of view can we afford to change managers on a regular basis?"
If I take local league 2 side bury, since January 2013 they have hired and fired and paid off the following.
* Kevin Blackwell
* David Flitcroft
* Lee Clark
* Chris Lucketti
If you consider that for four people in 6 years, plus the fees to recruit them that's over £500k of recruitment cost and payoff in there.
That doesn't include the backroom staff terminated as part of the manager leaving (hi Ben Futcher!) |  |
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| Simply put he has to go. on 19:49 - Jan 1 with 2561 views | James1980 |
| Simply put he has to go. on 19:37 - Jan 1 by RAFCBLUE |
"From a financial point of view can we afford to change managers on a regular basis?"
If I take local league 2 side bury, since January 2013 they have hired and fired and paid off the following.
* Kevin Blackwell
* David Flitcroft
* Lee Clark
* Chris Lucketti
If you consider that for four people in 6 years, plus the fees to recruit them that's over £500k of recruitment cost and payoff in there.
That doesn't include the backroom staff terminated as part of the manager leaving (hi Ben Futcher!) |
And even if it just a case of not renewing contracts. There would still be the matter of signing on fees each time a new manager is recruited. | |
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| Simply put he has to go. on 20:00 - Jan 1 with 2514 views | albert_park |
| Simply put he has to go. on 19:32 - Jan 1 by James1980 |
I suppose the long contract does offer a degree of financial stability for both parties. Which is important for a club like Rochdale. The issue is that the manager might even unintentionally lose a degree of motivation and the club think we can't afford to sack them.
The problem as I see it most permutations of what happens following recruiting a new manager end up leading to sticking with Hill till his contract is up as the best thing for the club in the long run.
1. New manager gets 6 month contract and does VERY well, chances are they could very likely be snapped up by another club. The board have to look for someone else.
2. We get relegated unlikely that manager would get a contract extension
3. We get 51 points and stay in league 1. But if KH stays we get relegated The club has to offset financial advantage of being in L1 over L2 with the cost of firing KH and hiring NG (New Gaffer)
There is no guarantee KH will take us down and none a NG will keep us up
I doubt most of the fans calling for Hill's head will be saying, come on lets get behind the new manager in the event their tenure doesn't start off as we would hope.
Or would Hexit be like Brexit people saying I don't care if we are relegated anyway at least we got rid of Hill. Even if in a few seasons time, we are playing in National League, would people saying thank bleep we got rid of Hill it makes playing in NL totally worth it. |
I don't think appointing a new manager at this stage of the season will achieve anything. No doubt the players will put in the necessary effort to impress a new manager, but how long will that last?
If Hill has lost the dressing room he needs to be brought to task. We all know he is arrogant and will never admit to being wrong, but I think he is heading for a breakdown. We should give him time to get his health back and take some of the responsibilities off him until that happens. Let Beech step up and try and restore the glory days. Positive criticisms will be welcome. | | | |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:05 - Jan 1 with 2471 views | James1980 |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:00 - Jan 1 by albert_park |
I don't think appointing a new manager at this stage of the season will achieve anything. No doubt the players will put in the necessary effort to impress a new manager, but how long will that last?
If Hill has lost the dressing room he needs to be brought to task. We all know he is arrogant and will never admit to being wrong, but I think he is heading for a breakdown. We should give him time to get his health back and take some of the responsibilities off him until that happens. Let Beech step up and try and restore the glory days. Positive criticisms will be welcome. |
Think you are onto something there. Perhaps one of the youth team staff could step up to be Beechy's assistant. However if KH does have mental health issues is he the type that would put his hands up and say? | |
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| Simply put he has to go. on 20:06 - Jan 1 with 2459 views | MoonyDale |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:00 - Jan 1 by albert_park |
I don't think appointing a new manager at this stage of the season will achieve anything. No doubt the players will put in the necessary effort to impress a new manager, but how long will that last?
If Hill has lost the dressing room he needs to be brought to task. We all know he is arrogant and will never admit to being wrong, but I think he is heading for a breakdown. We should give him time to get his health back and take some of the responsibilities off him until that happens. Let Beech step up and try and restore the glory days. Positive criticisms will be welcome. |
I said this earlier, send Hilly home on gardening leave and give the task to someone else within the club... |  |
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| Simply put he has to go. on 20:08 - Jan 1 with 2448 views | pioneer |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:00 - Jan 1 by albert_park |
I don't think appointing a new manager at this stage of the season will achieve anything. No doubt the players will put in the necessary effort to impress a new manager, but how long will that last?
If Hill has lost the dressing room he needs to be brought to task. We all know he is arrogant and will never admit to being wrong, but I think he is heading for a breakdown. We should give him time to get his health back and take some of the responsibilities off him until that happens. Let Beech step up and try and restore the glory days. Positive criticisms will be welcome. |
Well its achieved someting at Man U and at Oldham. Lets face it, anything is better than continuing as we are currently. | | | |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:08 - Jan 1 with 2443 views | deeplishblue |
Isn't if funny. If the BIFFOS hadn't lost at Northampton last match of last season we would be playing in L2 probably upper mid table/play-off position and the fan base would be relatively content.
We survived and everything seems a struggle at the moment and the natives are restless. Personally I don't want Hill sacked but I no longer think that those who do are nutters. |  |
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| Simply put he has to go. on 20:09 - Jan 1 with 2439 views | JimmyRustler |
I would be amazed and sickened if there isn't a clause in the five year contract which stipulates we only have to pay KH x amount if he's sacked...who knows though? |  | | |
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| Simply put he has to go. on 20:13 - Jan 1 with 2415 views | nordenblue |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:09 - Jan 1 by JimmyRustler |
I would be amazed and sickened if there isn't a clause in the five year contract which stipulates we only have to pay KH x amount if he's sacked...who knows though? |
It surely has something peformance related inserted in there somewhere, the shite he spouts in the media must sail him pretty close to wind conduct wise anyway. | | | |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:18 - Jan 1 with 2370 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:08 - Jan 1 by deeplishblue |
Isn't if funny. If the BIFFOS hadn't lost at Northampton last match of last season we would be playing in L2 probably upper mid table/play-off position and the fan base would be relatively content.
We survived and everything seems a struggle at the moment and the natives are restless. Personally I don't want Hill sacked but I no longer think that those who do are nutters. |
Why are you so convinced that earning thirty points in this league equates to us being in the top half of the league/playoff places in league two. If you play like we play or make the baffling managerial decisions Hill makes then you are going to struggle in any league. We can’t do the basics right. What makes you think the mindset of the club would change if we went down? |  | | |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:20 - Jan 1 with 2349 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:00 - Jan 1 by albert_park |
I don't think appointing a new manager at this stage of the season will achieve anything. No doubt the players will put in the necessary effort to impress a new manager, but how long will that last?
If Hill has lost the dressing room he needs to be brought to task. We all know he is arrogant and will never admit to being wrong, but I think he is heading for a breakdown. We should give him time to get his health back and take some of the responsibilities off him until that happens. Let Beech step up and try and restore the glory days. Positive criticisms will be welcome. |
With regards to him having a break down he does look like shit to be honest. | | | |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:28 - Jan 1 with 2264 views | dalenumber2 |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:00 - Jan 1 by albert_park |
I don't think appointing a new manager at this stage of the season will achieve anything. No doubt the players will put in the necessary effort to impress a new manager, but how long will that last?
If Hill has lost the dressing room he needs to be brought to task. We all know he is arrogant and will never admit to being wrong, but I think he is heading for a breakdown. We should give him time to get his health back and take some of the responsibilities off him until that happens. Let Beech step up and try and restore the glory days. Positive criticisms will be welcome. |
You are suggesting he has mental health issues? On what basis do you make that suggestion? |  | | |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:29 - Jan 1 with 2258 views | seasidedale |
We all were delighted when he signed a 5 year deal | | | |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:30 - Jan 1 with 2236 views | James1980 |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:29 - Jan 1 by seasidedale |
We all were delighted when he signed a 5 year deal |
Even the person who said they were unhappy Hill came back after Barnsley? | |
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| Simply put he has to go. on 20:35 - Jan 1 with 2201 views | D_Alien |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:30 - Jan 1 by James1980 |
Even the person who said they were unhappy Hill came back after Barnsley? |
Come on James... it wasn't an "everybody" in the literal sense, but in the sense that Dale fans in general would've seen the 5-year contract as just reward for his record over the previous two promotions and to try to offset the threat of being poached by another club again |  |
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| Simply put he has to go. on 20:47 - Jan 1 with 2152 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:29 - Jan 1 by seasidedale |
We all were delighted when he signed a 5 year deal |
Hang on...I think there were a lot of raised eyebrows. | | | |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:52 - Jan 1 with 2096 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:20 - Jan 1 by rochdale_ranger |
With regards to him having a break down he does look like shit to be honest. |
He sounds like he has a cold, not sure that is reason to section him just yet |  |
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| Simply put he has to go. on 21:18 - Jan 1 with 2033 views | albert_park |
| Simply put he has to go. on 20:28 - Jan 1 by dalenumber2 |
You are suggesting he has mental health issues? On what basis do you make that suggestion? |
I've seen it before when people make irrational decisions and just can't see what everyone else is seeing. He is certainly a tough cookie but everyone has a breaking point. I may well be wrong but he is certainly not the Hill that we came to revere. | | | |
| Simply put he has to go. on 22:45 - Jan 1 with 1888 views | scarrow |
I know it's troubling times and ive had a fes moans today about things but I've just looked at the conference north table
Stockport, Darlington, Chester, Hereford, York. Kidderminster. All used to be regular away trips, it could be a million times worse! |  |
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| Simply put he has to go. on 22:55 - Jan 1 with 1852 views | DaleFan7 |
| Simply put he has to go. on 19:32 - Jan 1 by James1980 |
I suppose the long contract does offer a degree of financial stability for both parties. Which is important for a club like Rochdale. The issue is that the manager might even unintentionally lose a degree of motivation and the club think we can't afford to sack them.
The problem as I see it most permutations of what happens following recruiting a new manager end up leading to sticking with Hill till his contract is up as the best thing for the club in the long run.
1. New manager gets 6 month contract and does VERY well, chances are they could very likely be snapped up by another club. The board have to look for someone else.
2. We get relegated unlikely that manager would get a contract extension
3. We get 51 points and stay in league 1. But if KH stays we get relegated The club has to offset financial advantage of being in L1 over L2 with the cost of firing KH and hiring NG (New Gaffer)
There is no guarantee KH will take us down and none a NG will keep us up
I doubt most of the fans calling for Hill's head will be saying, come on lets get behind the new manager in the event their tenure doesn't start off as we would hope.
Or would Hexit be like Brexit people saying I don't care if we are relegated anyway at least we got rid of Hill. Even if in a few seasons time, we are playing in National League, would people saying thank bleep we got rid of Hill it makes playing in NL totally worth it. |
People harp on about history and what Hill has done in the past yet you mention us going into the NL. Since entering the football league in 1921 we've never subsequently become a non-league team. So why would we now? | | | |
| Simply put he has to go. on 23:00 - Jan 1 with 1824 views | D_Alien |
| Simply put he has to go. on 21:18 - Jan 1 by albert_park |
I've seen it before when people make irrational decisions and just can't see what everyone else is seeing. He is certainly a tough cookie but everyone has a breaking point. I may well be wrong but he is certainly not the Hill that we came to revere. |
There's a difference between naturally struggling under strain, whether due to work circumstances or issues such as bereavement and other life-changing events, and having mental health issues in terms of a recognisable condition
The two can be inter-related. Having a mental health condition can lead to additional strains in work, for instance; or severe work/life strain over an extended period can exacerbate an existing mental health condition. But it's important not to ascribe stress and it's effects to an underlying mental health issue. I think what you're describing is the former | |
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| Simply put he has to go. on 03:06 - Jan 2 with 1620 views | DiddyDave |
| Simply put he has to go. on 19:32 - Jan 1 by James1980 |
I suppose the long contract does offer a degree of financial stability for both parties. Which is important for a club like Rochdale. The issue is that the manager might even unintentionally lose a degree of motivation and the club think we can't afford to sack them.
The problem as I see it most permutations of what happens following recruiting a new manager end up leading to sticking with Hill till his contract is up as the best thing for the club in the long run.
1. New manager gets 6 month contract and does VERY well, chances are they could very likely be snapped up by another club. The board have to look for someone else.
2. We get relegated unlikely that manager would get a contract extension
3. We get 51 points and stay in league 1. But if KH stays we get relegated The club has to offset financial advantage of being in L1 over L2 with the cost of firing KH and hiring NG (New Gaffer)
There is no guarantee KH will take us down and none a NG will keep us up
I doubt most of the fans calling for Hill's head will be saying, come on lets get behind the new manager in the event their tenure doesn't start off as we would hope.
Or would Hexit be like Brexit people saying I don't care if we are relegated anyway at least we got rid of Hill. Even if in a few seasons time, we are playing in National League, would people saying thank bleep we got rid of Hill it makes playing in NL totally worth it. |
Some very good points here. If Dale are supposed to be not very financial at the moment,how can they afford to sack Keith Hill? Things are bad,yes,but it`s not like we`re at the bottom of Championship I...yet. Giving him,or anybody,a five year contract was the worst thing an otherwise excellent Chris Dunphy could`ve done because it`s since that time that Dale,apart from two good Cup runs,have gone bad. I really think Dale have to stick with KH,time will tell,as it always does,but this time last year things were worse and the players got themselves out of it,only four defeats in the last seventeen games says it all. | | | |
| Simply put he has to go. on 08:03 - Jan 2 with 1445 views | MoonyDale |
| Simply put he has to go. on 23:00 - Jan 1 by D_Alien |
There's a difference between naturally struggling under strain, whether due to work circumstances or issues such as bereavement and other life-changing events, and having mental health issues in terms of a recognisable condition
The two can be inter-related. Having a mental health condition can lead to additional strains in work, for instance; or severe work/life strain over an extended period can exacerbate an existing mental health condition. But it's important not to ascribe stress and it's effects to an underlying mental health issue. I think what you're describing is the former |
Spot on.... | |
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| Simply put he has to go. on 08:04 - Jan 2 with 1445 views | Bazzanne |
| Simply put he has to go. on 19:32 - Jan 1 by James1980 |
I suppose the long contract does offer a degree of financial stability for both parties. Which is important for a club like Rochdale. The issue is that the manager might even unintentionally lose a degree of motivation and the club think we can't afford to sack them.
The problem as I see it most permutations of what happens following recruiting a new manager end up leading to sticking with Hill till his contract is up as the best thing for the club in the long run.
1. New manager gets 6 month contract and does VERY well, chances are they could very likely be snapped up by another club. The board have to look for someone else.
2. We get relegated unlikely that manager would get a contract extension
3. We get 51 points and stay in league 1. But if KH stays we get relegated The club has to offset financial advantage of being in L1 over L2 with the cost of firing KH and hiring NG (New Gaffer)
There is no guarantee KH will take us down and none a NG will keep us up
I doubt most of the fans calling for Hill's head will be saying, come on lets get behind the new manager in the event their tenure doesn't start off as we would hope.
Or would Hexit be like Brexit people saying I don't care if we are relegated anyway at least we got rid of Hill. Even if in a few seasons time, we are playing in National League, would people saying thank bleep we got rid of Hill it makes playing in NL totally worth it. |
You could just as easily said there is no guarantee New Gaffer will take us down and none Keith Hill will keep us up. | | | |
| Simply put he has to go. on 08:04 - Jan 2 with 1444 views | Nafelad |
| Simply put he has to go. on 03:06 - Jan 2 by DiddyDave |
Some very good points here. If Dale are supposed to be not very financial at the moment,how can they afford to sack Keith Hill? Things are bad,yes,but it`s not like we`re at the bottom of Championship I...yet. Giving him,or anybody,a five year contract was the worst thing an otherwise excellent Chris Dunphy could`ve done because it`s since that time that Dale,apart from two good Cup runs,have gone bad. I really think Dale have to stick with KH,time will tell,as it always does,but this time last year things were worse and the players got themselves out of it,only four defeats in the last seventeen games says it all. |
Think Hill should have a chat with David Hopkins, at Bradford, and find out what he has done to transform the team's performances there. |  |
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