| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS 18:36 - Aug 2 with 37644 views | castlejack |
13 players out, 3 players signed
Just heard Mawson deal now confirmed, and club seem content with £8m for Clueless.
This is so depressing,
Having worked in the City for many years, I knew these bustard yanks would asset strip us for years which started even before their first season as owners had started....
But this is bordering on ridiculous. The rate of pillage is speeding up and the vultures have now successfully left us with a SWAN CARCASS.
The parachute payments are only ever one click away as they disappear electronically across the Atlantic.
In the words of Gordon Gekko in Wall Street, when asked Why have you wrecked our company/club....
BECAUSE ITS WRECK-ABLE |  |
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 22:43 - Aug 2 with 2382 views | BillyChong |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 22:22 - Aug 2 by Wingstandwood |
Quote : "The sellouts may have rendered the Trust's voting rights next to useless with their skullduggery but as a 21% shareholder there are still rights to ensure the 'investment' is being managed as we would want and if it wasnt then vocally to let that be known" (end of quote)
That brings some comfort to know that they will have to be on their guard and to be wary whilst having to look over their shoulders because they know scrutiny is there. |
Nothing has put them off walking all over the trust so far though. The scrutiny might be there but they probably feel untouchable after recent years of no real opposition. | | | |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 22:43 - Aug 2 with 2382 views | Croftyjack |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 19:16 - Aug 2 by jasper_T |
Clucas isn't a key player here. With our new signings it's hard to see a role for him in the team. Was useless in central midfield. |
We haven't signed a central midfielder at all yet and we needed one or two from last season
Ki, Britton and clucas going and possibly one coming in.
This was the key area we lacked last season and now much weaker.
I like the signings coming in but watch and see our bench Saturday | | | |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 23:03 - Aug 2 with 2331 views | Smellyplumz |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 21:32 - Aug 2 by Phil_S |
OK then so lets suppose you are right
What are they going to do? And how are they going to do it? |
Ok let's say they do start trousering money and the trusts eagle eyed accountants get wind of it and publicise it will the yanks stop it or just carry on? Apart from letting people know can you guarantee to stop it continuing? |  |
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""Although I cannot promise or predict the future, I can guarantee one thing - the current board of directors will always fight, as we have done over the last 12 years, to work together as one with the Supporters Trust to make 100% sure that Swansea City football club remains the number one priority in all our thoughts and in every decision we make." | | Poll: | Huw Jenkins |
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 23:03 - Aug 2 with 2334 views | Wingstandwood |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 22:43 - Aug 2 by BillyChong |
Nothing has put them off walking all over the trust so far though. The scrutiny might be there but they probably feel untouchable after recent years of no real opposition. |
I will agree with you on that, hopefully the new SCST intake are now fully aware that 'familiarity has bred contempt' and Jenkins, Yanks and sell-outs treat kindness as weakness and compromise as something to be abused and betrayed.
Apparently the latest SCST additions are meant to be more militant and with less personal loyalty/emotional attachment towards Jenkins and his merry gang of complete and utter sh#ts......We'll see????
The fact that there seems to be intent to prevent an Oyston type situation is a plus however....Yeah a significant plus if that is adhered to. [Post edited 2 Aug 2018 23:19]
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 23:19 - Aug 2 with 2297 views | harryhpalmer |
Phil,
if the Yanks took out a loan on the Swans, to cover the costs associated with the Rooney transfer to DC, for instance. how would you know?
Would that be exposed in management accounts, or could that easily be hidden? | |
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 23:31 - Aug 2 with 2287 views | jasper_T |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 22:43 - Aug 2 by Croftyjack |
We haven't signed a central midfielder at all yet and we needed one or two from last season
Ki, Britton and clucas going and possibly one coming in.
This was the key area we lacked last season and now much weaker.
I like the signings coming in but watch and see our bench Saturday |
I agree about the CM positions that need filling (Woods, Riedewald) but for me Clucas isn't a part of that conversation. Was abysmal for us as a holding midfielder. Ki showed more bottle and fight in there.
We've got Carroll, and Fer to come back eventually. Grimes, Maric and Fulton as backups. Celina, Byers or Dhanda ahead of them as natural 10s. Midfield just needs that one quality signing to anchor the midfield. | | | |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 00:17 - Aug 3 with 2227 views | E20Jack |
I hate the term asset stripping as it is almost always used in the wrong context without its meaning.
They are not asset stripping in any sense of the term. To asset strip they would be doing it for direct personal financial gain. Improving the health of the company, although may lead to indirect long term personal gain - it is within our interests as that only happens if aligned with what we want to happen on field.
We stayed in the Premier League for 7 continuous seasons as a club that hadn't graced the Premier League before and didn't (and still don't) have the foundation structure to be self sufficient and competitive there.
With such an amazing 7 years came certain financial burdens. Upon relegation we were always going to have to erase or at least ease those burdens. They are not pocketing anything however, they are reducing our costs and doing exactly as they should do.
Stop scaremongering, we have enough of that on here as it is. We even have ''Spidey senses'' at play now apparently, wrong ones, but spidey senses all the same. |  |
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 00:26 - Aug 3 with 2225 views | Croftyjack |
Why oh why on earth do fans even try to dissect the finances of a football club...none of you will be right of course.
But as a fan to me the ideal way after relegation would have been to
1) align wages by moving on the High non performing earners....ie Bony,Mesa,Baston,A.Ayew for actual money even if its less than their valuation due to wages.
2) Keep the non performers(Other than Fab they all were) from last year that likely could be quality in this league..ie J.Ayew,Clucas,Mawson.
3) add some young hungry players like we have to make up the shortfalls from last year.
So we would not almost completely change the first team squad just add the younger talent to the best of what was left.
Okay it may mean taking a little hit for season 1, but if promoted worth the gamble and if not then we move on high earners and repeat.
I have finances to deal with everyday so the when it comes to the Swans I only care about what goes on ptichside.
You have to take small risks without being stupid. | | | |
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 05:31 - Aug 3 with 2122 views | dameedna |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 00:26 - Aug 3 by Croftyjack |
Why oh why on earth do fans even try to dissect the finances of a football club...none of you will be right of course.
But as a fan to me the ideal way after relegation would have been to
1) align wages by moving on the High non performing earners....ie Bony,Mesa,Baston,A.Ayew for actual money even if its less than their valuation due to wages.
2) Keep the non performers(Other than Fab they all were) from last year that likely could be quality in this league..ie J.Ayew,Clucas,Mawson.
3) add some young hungry players like we have to make up the shortfalls from last year.
So we would not almost completely change the first team squad just add the younger talent to the best of what was left.
Okay it may mean taking a little hit for season 1, but if promoted worth the gamble and if not then we move on high earners and repeat.
I have finances to deal with everyday so the when it comes to the Swans I only care about what goes on ptichside.
You have to take small risks without being stupid. |
Fair comments CJ
1) Bony is the big earner left. He will hopefully move once recovered.
2) Don't see Mawson, Clucas or J Ayew as Championship. Short career, let them go.
3) Done.
Defence. Couldn't keep Fabs but the rest of defence are mainly still in the wings which is major positive.
Midfield and attack need rebuilding. Fer and Carroll may stay. They may leave. At times were quite good. None as good as Briton, Allen, Siggy. |  | | |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 07:23 - Aug 3 with 2069 views | castlejack |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 21:30 - Aug 2 by Jack59 |
Trust me, the harvesting is going on, they just haven't capitalised on it yet, but it is going to happen, and it will be too late for anyone to take any action again. |
Spot on. Just because they are not taking out the cash in the form of dividends or other payments to themselves YET doesn’t mean they are not readying our club for massive transfer of cash to the USA when ready.
Selling our assets (players) and holding the funds as cash (an asset) is not asset stripping but it is making our assets very liquid (ie. can be gone in one bank transfer)
Phil S , How are you and the trust going to stop these electronic transfers when they start happening? | |
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 07:32 - Aug 3 with 2063 views | raynor94 |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 07:23 - Aug 3 by castlejack |
Spot on. Just because they are not taking out the cash in the form of dividends or other payments to themselves YET doesn’t mean they are not readying our club for massive transfer of cash to the USA when ready.
Selling our assets (players) and holding the funds as cash (an asset) is not asset stripping but it is making our assets very liquid (ie. can be gone in one bank transfer)
Phil S , How are you and the trust going to stop these electronic transfers when they start happening? |
"Massive transfer of cash"? Where is this cash you talk about? |  |
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 07:44 - Aug 3 with 2055 views | Uxbridge |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 23:19 - Aug 2 by harryhpalmer |
Phil,
if the Yanks took out a loan on the Swans, to cover the costs associated with the Rooney transfer to DC, for instance. how would you know?
Would that be exposed in management accounts, or could that easily be hidden? |
If we ignore the fact the two clubs have completely different ownership structures, with Levien being the only common link, then the other obvious issue is that it would be somewhat legally questionable.
There's been a lot said about the value of the Trust looking to force a sale of its stake, but it's this sort of thing that shows the value of retaining one (at whatever level). Not just in terms of the visibility of the monthly management accounts (which the finance sub group of 3 have visibility to) but also that access to the finance team at the club. That's very valuable stuff. |  |
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 07:59 - Aug 3 with 2032 views | Phil_S |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 22:22 - Aug 2 by Wingstandwood |
Quote : "The sellouts may have rendered the Trust's voting rights next to useless with their skullduggery but as a 21% shareholder there are still rights to ensure the 'investment' is being managed as we would want and if it wasnt then vocally to let that be known" (end of quote)
That brings some comfort to know that they will have to be on their guard and to be wary whilst having to look over their shoulders because they know scrutiny is there. |
Which is where the part that gets advocated around a full sale becomes a rock and a hard place situation because those rights as a shareholder disappear if we don't have that (or at least) some shareholding!
Minefields |  | | |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:00 - Aug 3 with 2031 views | Phil_S |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 22:24 - Aug 2 by Uxbridge |
Monthly management accounts, weekly meetings with the FD.
It seems not everyone's been reading the monthly board minutes...  |
Ha - no I've been reading them, I just value the accounts more than the meetings...
But that's the same way I work on a daily basis as well...  | | | |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:02 - Aug 3 with 2028 views | awayjack |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 07:23 - Aug 3 by castlejack |
Spot on. Just because they are not taking out the cash in the form of dividends or other payments to themselves YET doesn’t mean they are not readying our club for massive transfer of cash to the USA when ready.
Selling our assets (players) and holding the funds as cash (an asset) is not asset stripping but it is making our assets very liquid (ie. can be gone in one bank transfer)
Phil S , How are you and the trust going to stop these electronic transfers when they start happening? |
IMO the Yanks will not do anything illegal and simply transfer funds. There are legal ways for them to get money out of company but utimately only way to get return on the £65m they've paid to the sell outs is to pay dividends or sell the club. So for example:
- Slash costs to make a profit from the initial £50m parachute, say £10m profit. We need cost cut anyway but perhaps deeper at the expense of team, stay mid-table or even relegated.
- Sell any valuable players in this and Jan window for say £70m, say £50m profit.
- Pay 'management fees' of £10m and a dividend of £50m - trust would get their 21% or circa £10m.
- Repeat next season with smaller amounts, and sell any players that have decent values, so maybe £5m in 'fees' and £10m dividend.
It's only a scenario but Yanks would still own the club and returned £50m of the £65m or so they paid to the sell outs. Trust would get £10m or so and may keep some fans happy.
Yanks then sell their shares for relatively low value - say £20m - perhaps To Trust with proceeds of dividends.
The numbers aren't accurate just to illustrate how by selling off our assets (players) they
could make a return without doing anything illegal. This is only a scenario but how would people feel if the result was we slipped done to League 1 but Trust bought control of club? [Post edited 3 Aug 2018 8:03]
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:03 - Aug 3 with 2025 views | Phil_S |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 22:25 - Aug 2 by Jack59 |
I honestly can't tell you now, if I had a million pound budget like them, to hire minds and put a plan together, then I would. However, I will remind you of this after it all comes to light.
What seriously worries me is given our history, and even after what happened with our sell out board, many fans are still naïve about the intentions of the so called 'investors' |
I'm not sure it's naivety but just pointing out the various things that are there to come and safeguard it
some would turn your statement on its head completely so will let them do just that...
You can remind me of it as much as you like, you could of course have stood for the Trust board as well to use the skills you have to try and prevent it - far better to be active than be an "I told you so" person which would give nobody any satisfaction
Although of course you have accepted already that everything that can be done is being done. | | | |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:04 - Aug 3 with 2018 views | Phil_S |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 23:03 - Aug 2 by Smellyplumz |
Ok let's say they do start trousering money and the trusts eagle eyed accountants get wind of it and publicise it will the yanks stop it or just carry on? Apart from letting people know can you guarantee to stop it continuing? |
Of course nobody can guarantee it would stop continuing and that has not been claimed.
However, never under estimate the power of negative publicity. I have seen first hand how this creates a reaction | | | |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:06 - Aug 3 with 2012 views | Phil_S |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 23:19 - Aug 2 by harryhpalmer |
Phil,
if the Yanks took out a loan on the Swans, to cover the costs associated with the Rooney transfer to DC, for instance. how would you know?
Would that be exposed in management accounts, or could that easily be hidden? |
There would be visibility of that
I would want one of the accounting experts to tell me if that was in the management accounts but its safe to say that it would be seen
Think we need though to forget the Rooney transfer to DC United, that is their business and not related to Swansea City. I get cynicism and suspicion (because I have so much of it myself) but it is time to separate the two entities and look at this through logical eyes at the same time | | | |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:09 - Aug 3 with 2005 views | Uxbridge |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:00 - Aug 3 by Phil_S |
Ha - no I've been reading them, I just value the accounts more than the meetings...
But that's the same way I work on a daily basis as well... |
Ha, very wise.
I think the meetings are useful though, especially as it'll be more current and at the end of the day the FD is an employee and will have certain responsibilities. I know Stu is very much of that mind too.
I'd rather hoped this DC nonsense had died down though. Jeez. | |
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:43 - Aug 3 with 1951 views | Shaky |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:09 - Aug 3 by Uxbridge |
Ha, very wise.
I think the meetings are useful though, especially as it'll be more current and at the end of the day the FD is an employee and will have certain responsibilities. I know Stu is very much of that mind too.
I'd rather hoped this DC nonsense had died down though. Jeez. |
More useful than having say £5 million in the bank instead of a residual 5% stake?
At the end of the day information rights to things like the accounts are basically voyeur rights.
Unless you can actually influence what happens in the accounts the main purpose they serve is to make recipients feel a little special. insiders receiving privileged hush-hush information.
And if there ever really was any fraud perpetrated by the majority shareholders, it is highly unlikely to appear as a balance sheet line item 'monies purloined by directors'. |  |
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:51 - Aug 3 with 1932 views | Phil_S |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:09 - Aug 3 by Uxbridge |
Ha, very wise.
I think the meetings are useful though, especially as it'll be more current and at the end of the day the FD is an employee and will have certain responsibilities. I know Stu is very much of that mind too.
I'd rather hoped this DC nonsense had died down though. Jeez. |
I'm not dissing the meetings by any stretch. I assume Stu and FD have the same working relationship that they had 12 months ago an there was certainly a level of trust/understanding at that stage
Give that then there will be some value to them | | | |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:52 - Aug 3 with 1920 views | Smellyplumz |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:04 - Aug 3 by Phil_S |
Of course nobody can guarantee it would stop continuing and that has not been claimed.
However, never under estimate the power of negative publicity. I have seen first hand how this creates a reaction |
Thank you for your reply | |
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""Although I cannot promise or predict the future, I can guarantee one thing - the current board of directors will always fight, as we have done over the last 12 years, to work together as one with the Supporters Trust to make 100% sure that Swansea City football club remains the number one priority in all our thoughts and in every decision we make." | | Poll: | Huw Jenkins |
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 09:05 - Aug 3 with 1885 views | Uxbridge |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 08:43 - Aug 3 by Shaky |
More useful than having say £5 million in the bank instead of a residual 5% stake?
At the end of the day information rights to things like the accounts are basically voyeur rights.
Unless you can actually influence what happens in the accounts the main purpose they serve is to make recipients feel a little special. insiders receiving privileged hush-hush information.
And if there ever really was any fraud perpetrated by the majority shareholders, it is highly unlikely to appear as a balance sheet line item 'monies purloined by directors'. |
It'd have to be disclosed as something. A sudden drop in cash, increase in liabilities. I see more value in that access than you do, but never mind.
Not sure where you're going with your question there. I voted for the part sale, even if I didn't particularly like elements of it. I've never been much of a fan of access without influence. There's value in retaining a stake and access, we're not a typical shareholder solely interested in the financial aspect of the shareholding (although it's a significant factor of course) and mediation will tell us what the options are. We'll see on that.
The ideal has always been the Trust's position at the club and shareholder value is protected and meaningful influence at the club exists but we're some way away from that position at the moment. Unless there's a change of approach on one side, this may only go in one direction. We'll see. | |
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| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 09:54 - Aug 3 with 1812 views | andypitt56 |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 21:02 - Aug 2 by Phil_S |
The Trust see the monthly management accounts...
I promise if they are trousering money away it will be seen in here and I will be the first to tell you |
Its beggars belief how many people actually think this is happening.... Apparently we sold fabianski and the money went straight into wayne rooney's back pocket at DC.... The only way teh owners can make any kind of money is by investing in the infrastructure and growing the club as a brand. which currently they are failing miserably at. | | | |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 10:12 - Aug 3 with 1791 views | awayjack |
| Asset strip away, strip away....Left with a SWAN CARCASS on 22:24 - Aug 2 by Uxbridge |
Monthly management accounts, weekly meetings with the FD.
It seems not everyone's been reading the monthly board minutes... |
Ux good to know the historic management accounts are scrutinised. Do the trust also see profit / cash flow forecasts, say for next 12 months? Pretty basic for any business and it should give an idea of what the plans are - i.e.
- cut costs, sell assets and build up cash for rainy day / dividends / relegation.
- cut costs but re-invest proportion of transfer proceeds in squad to get back into PL. | | | |
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