| Clydach murders on 10:24 - Oct 23 with 2005 views | onehunglow |
Disclosure is rather like a boxing match where one protagonist has one to allow his opponent to hit him first.
Why do you think Solicitors instruct to say no comment,although Morris did which is odd.
The Defence relies not on facts or truth but on documents that are shows to them,THEN a Barrister will CONSTRUCT a defence with a view to casting doubt and doubt i what is key.When you create doubt in minds,you have not guilty and rightly so. But please,don't talk about justice especially for victims. It does not exist.
As I see it,little last night to cast doubt on the conviction. We saw OPINIONS from variou boffins about what MIGHT have happened.Nothing at all concrete.
In a village the size of Clydach ,if Morris wasnt not guilty ,I d have thought by now someone else would by now have been outed at being responsible. The family must feel their loved ones bodies are being exhumed. Feel for them. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 10:25 - Oct 23 with 2000 views | Whiterockin |
| Clydach murders on 09:57 - Oct 23 by trampie |
Yes indeed and without wishing to get too controversial the case stinkings of framing the debate at trial against Morris, of allowing evidence against him and not evidence for him, I wonder why ?.....hmm |
The way I see it not all the evidence was presented in court. So although he was convicted twice, as it was without all the evidence available for whatever reason, there has to be a re trial with all the evidence.
You could be kind and say the police were under immense pressure to get a conviction, any conviction. Or you could say there was a cover up.
I have no idea if he is guilty or not, but the full truth has to come out. This is owed to the family of the bereaved as well as the accused. |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 10:30 - Oct 23 with 1976 views | pikeypaul |
| Clydach murders on 10:24 - Oct 23 by onehunglow |
Disclosure is rather like a boxing match where one protagonist has one to allow his opponent to hit him first.
Why do you think Solicitors instruct to say no comment,although Morris did which is odd.
The Defence relies not on facts or truth but on documents that are shows to them,THEN a Barrister will CONSTRUCT a defence with a view to casting doubt and doubt i what is key.When you create doubt in minds,you have not guilty and rightly so. But please,don't talk about justice especially for victims. It does not exist.
As I see it,little last night to cast doubt on the conviction. We saw OPINIONS from variou boffins about what MIGHT have happened.Nothing at all concrete.
In a village the size of Clydach ,if Morris wasnt not guilty ,I d have thought by now someone else would by now have been outed at being responsible. The family must feel their loved ones bodies are being exhumed. Feel for them. |
The majority of people in Clydach believe they know the killer/killers you only need to talk to a few, very few think it was Morris.
Can you explain why the police continually ignored the taxi drivers sighting of the brothers around 2am? Although he reported it and followed up his witnessing them walking towards the house, when one claimed to be in bed and the other was on duty but did not know where since he lost his log book that night and could not say where he was for 3 hours? Very convenient don’t you think.
How often does a police officer lose his log book? [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 11:04]
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| Clydach murders on 10:30 - Oct 23 with 1986 views | onehunglow |
Depends how crucial is that which is disclosed.
This bring back memories for me and mine are skewed as it gives the Defence (in my opinion) an unfair advantage as they know exactly what the Prosecution is going to say so they can lay a trap for prosecution witnesses .
Its' a jungle in there WR,trust me. | |
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| Clydach murders on 10:31 - Oct 23 with 1983 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 10:25 - Oct 23 by Whiterockin |
The way I see it not all the evidence was presented in court. So although he was convicted twice, as it was without all the evidence available for whatever reason, there has to be a re trial with all the evidence.
You could be kind and say the police were under immense pressure to get a conviction, any conviction. Or you could say there was a cover up.
I have no idea if he is guilty or not, but the full truth has to come out. This is owed to the family of the bereaved as well as the accused. |
Totally agree. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 16:51 - Oct 23 with 1844 views | ItchySphincter |
| Clydach murders on 09:57 - Oct 23 by trampie |
Yes indeed and without wishing to get too controversial the case stinkings of framing the debate at trial against Morris, of allowing evidence against him and not evidence for him, I wonder why ?.....hmm |
Lots of trials have ‘evidence’ rejected. I know someone who is currently serving time for a horrible crime of which he claims complete innocence. There is apparently certain evidence that was denied by the courts which he believes helps to build his defence but he cannot appeal unless new evidence is brought forward. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 16:59 - Oct 23 with 1836 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 16:51 - Oct 23 by ItchySphincter |
Lots of trials have ‘evidence’ rejected. I know someone who is currently serving time for a horrible crime of which he claims complete innocence. There is apparently certain evidence that was denied by the courts which he believes helps to build his defence but he cannot appeal unless new evidence is brought forward. |
Exactly, this Clydach case apparently had a unusualy large amount of evidence not allowed to be presented, if it was a terrorist case or spies or nuclear weapons that would be one thing but it wasn't, but it could be argued that it did involve the police....hhm. | |
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| Clydach murders on 17:26 - Oct 23 with 1812 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 16:59 - Oct 23 by trampie |
Exactly, this Clydach case apparently had a unusualy large amount of evidence not allowed to be presented, if it was a terrorist case or spies or nuclear weapons that would be one thing but it wasn't, but it could be argued that it did involve the police....hhm. |
Do you believe that someone who has drunk 8 pints is likely to be walking 9 miles and no one seeing him.
Do you believe that on the one occasion a serving cop in civies walks over a lonely mountain road at 4am in the morning a guy who has form with the police happens to be coming the opposite way and only comes forward 20 years later.
Do you think that no one would notice someone not wearing a very distinctive chain they also wore when in the pub.
According to the Morris team all these happened.
In addition he denied being upstairs in the house until the chain he supposedly left there was found upstairs.
This was the chain he constantly denied was his and even got someone else to buy another for him to cover up it wasnt his in the house.
These are just a few things. There was a trial lasted 11 weeks and last nights programme lasted an hour. There was much the jurors saw that we didnt. | | | |
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| Clydach murders on 17:35 - Oct 23 with 1798 views | onehunglow |
If they know,then why haven't they come out with it.
I lost a note book once .It happens. We used to carry them around,when on unifrom patrol anyway and like anything else it can be . It is far more concerning if CID lost their books. They are actually an aide memoir from which one transribes a statement .One should never make a statement the contents of which are not in a note book as it gives a barriter a lever to to open you up.
Thank FOOK it i well behind me.Im not sure how I ever served so long in the job,a job that sees you hammered from the public and inside the police force itself as it is anything but a united front as police are full of back stabbers.
Now ,wait for my book on direct selling come out | |
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| Clydach murders on 18:41 - Oct 23 with 1753 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 17:26 - Oct 23 by exhmrc1 |
Do you believe that someone who has drunk 8 pints is likely to be walking 9 miles and no one seeing him.
Do you believe that on the one occasion a serving cop in civies walks over a lonely mountain road at 4am in the morning a guy who has form with the police happens to be coming the opposite way and only comes forward 20 years later.
Do you think that no one would notice someone not wearing a very distinctive chain they also wore when in the pub.
According to the Morris team all these happened.
In addition he denied being upstairs in the house until the chain he supposedly left there was found upstairs.
This was the chain he constantly denied was his and even got someone else to buy another for him to cover up it wasnt his in the house.
These are just a few things. There was a trial lasted 11 weeks and last nights programme lasted an hour. There was much the jurors saw that we didnt. |
I'm going to jump in here...
Point 1, someone drinking 8 pints and a bit of whizz, makes no difference to someone seeing him or not. What is your reasoning there? He could have walked along the river bank for a start.
Personally, I wouldn't pay much notice to the guy who sat on it for 20 years, but, there's nothing wrong with being on a mountain at 4am. We used to do it as teenagers all the time. Go up there out of the way, do a load of magic mushrooms, or smoke some spliffs and cans. Out of the way of everyone. No issues with that at all. It's obviously not part of your lifestyle, even as a youngster, so would seem alien to you.
The distinctive chain, and a witness saying they remembered his not wearing it in the pub. Over ONE YEAR later? Absolutely no chance! Are you telling me you can remember what jewellery someone had on in a pub over a year ago? Nonsense.
I'm going to take a stab here and assume that you have never been arrested. Trust me, if you think saying something is going to get you out of the police station quickly, you'll say it. Yes that is a bad idea, but that is what happens. Especially so if you are panicking about the seriousness of the allegations against you. Don't forget, he was trying to cover up the fact that he was carrying on, don't under estimate what that will make a man say.
I'm not saying he is innocent or guilty, I genuinely don't know. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 19:52 - Oct 23 with 1695 views | Garyjack |
| Clydach murders on 18:41 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
I'm going to jump in here...
Point 1, someone drinking 8 pints and a bit of whizz, makes no difference to someone seeing him or not. What is your reasoning there? He could have walked along the river bank for a start.
Personally, I wouldn't pay much notice to the guy who sat on it for 20 years, but, there's nothing wrong with being on a mountain at 4am. We used to do it as teenagers all the time. Go up there out of the way, do a load of magic mushrooms, or smoke some spliffs and cans. Out of the way of everyone. No issues with that at all. It's obviously not part of your lifestyle, even as a youngster, so would seem alien to you.
The distinctive chain, and a witness saying they remembered his not wearing it in the pub. Over ONE YEAR later? Absolutely no chance! Are you telling me you can remember what jewellery someone had on in a pub over a year ago? Nonsense.
I'm going to take a stab here and assume that you have never been arrested. Trust me, if you think saying something is going to get you out of the police station quickly, you'll say it. Yes that is a bad idea, but that is what happens. Especially so if you are panicking about the seriousness of the allegations against you. Don't forget, he was trying to cover up the fact that he was carrying on, don't under estimate what that will make a man say.
I'm not saying he is innocent or guilty, I genuinely don't know. |
What! Are you seriously implying that a man who was being accused of 4 horrific murders would lie in interview because he didn't want his girlfriend to find out he was shagging someone else, if he was innocent! Dear god! 
He's guilty, and anyone who is anyone in Clydach will tell you the same, plus two juries and an appeal court. |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 19:56 - Oct 23 with 1684 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 19:52 - Oct 23 by Garyjack |
What! Are you seriously implying that a man who was being accused of 4 horrific murders would lie in interview because he didn't want his girlfriend to find out he was shagging someone else, if he was innocent! Dear god!
He's guilty, and anyone who is anyone in Clydach will tell you the same, plus two juries and an appeal court. |
I am yeah.
Especially so if he knew that he didn't commit the murders, and was expecting to be back down his local quick sharp.
The only person in the world who knows who the killer(s) are, is the killer(s) themselves. | |
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| Clydach murders on 20:05 - Oct 23 with 1667 views | Garyjack |
| Clydach murders on 19:56 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
I am yeah.
Especially so if he knew that he didn't commit the murders, and was expecting to be back down his local quick sharp.
The only person in the world who knows who the killer(s) are, is the killer(s) themselves. |
This wasn't some burglary or robbery we are talking about here. It was the systematic cold blooded killing of three generations of the same family. If you are innocent, then telling the truth is more likely to get you 'back down the local' than telling a pack of lies! | | | |
| Clydach murders on 20:07 - Oct 23 with 1660 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 20:05 - Oct 23 by Garyjack |
This wasn't some burglary or robbery we are talking about here. It was the systematic cold blooded killing of three generations of the same family. If you are innocent, then telling the truth is more likely to get you 'back down the local' than telling a pack of lies! |
Since when does a career criminal tell the truth in a police interview? | |
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| Clydach murders on 20:16 - Oct 23 with 1647 views | Garyjack |
| Clydach murders on 20:07 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
Since when does a career criminal tell the truth in a police interview? |
When he's innocent?  | | | |
| Clydach murders on 20:16 - Oct 23 with 1644 views | Tim_Harry |
| Clydach murders on 19:56 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
I am yeah.
Especially so if he knew that he didn't commit the murders, and was expecting to be back down his local quick sharp.
The only person in the world who knows who the killer(s) are, is the killer(s) themselves. |
So you've cheated on your missus. You've left your chain in the other woman's house, as you do. Also, this is the woman that a little bit earlier you were heard slagging off in a public place. Then someone else kills that woman.
So when the Police interview you a couple of years later, your first thought is not letting your missus find out about cheating on her?
Aye, that sounds right! |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 20:22 - Oct 23 with 1623 views | Andy1300 |
How could he have cleaned that house so well on his own? It was the Lewis family, the wife used to be I. Forensics, didn’t she? Wasn’t she also proficient in the martial arts!
So many inconsistencies in this case, hence why these programmes keep popping up. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 20:24 - Oct 23 with 1620 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 20:16 - Oct 23 by Tim_Harry |
So you've cheated on your missus. You've left your chain in the other woman's house, as you do. Also, this is the woman that a little bit earlier you were heard slagging off in a public place. Then someone else kills that woman.
So when the Police interview you a couple of years later, your first thought is not letting your missus find out about cheating on her?
Aye, that sounds right! |
Exactly that, yeah.
As explained to Gary, if he was innocent in that interview room, he'd be thinking "I'm out of here in an hour, no way am i admitting to having an affair, f*ck that!". | |
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| Clydach murders on 20:25 - Oct 23 with 1617 views | Garyjack |
| Clydach murders on 20:16 - Oct 23 by Tim_Harry |
So you've cheated on your missus. You've left your chain in the other woman's house, as you do. Also, this is the woman that a little bit earlier you were heard slagging off in a public place. Then someone else kills that woman.
So when the Police interview you a couple of years later, your first thought is not letting your missus find out about cheating on her?
Aye, that sounds right! |
And the chain was found on the floor of the mothers bedroom who was killed first! Come on innit! Conspiracy theories eh! | | | |
| Clydach murders on 20:26 - Oct 23 with 1612 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 20:16 - Oct 23 by Garyjack |
When he's innocent? |
The whole truth and nothing but the truth?  | |
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| Clydach murders on 20:30 - Oct 23 with 1605 views | Tim_Harry |
| Clydach murders on 20:24 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
Exactly that, yeah.
As explained to Gary, if he was innocent in that interview room, he'd be thinking "I'm out of here in an hour, no way am i admitting to having an affair, f*ck that!". |
Even if he was innocent in that interview he'd have realised that there was a lot of evidence pointing to his guilt. Or do you really think that he was too stupid to know that?
Four life sentences potentially at stake, or being in the doghouse with your missus.
No contest! | | | |
| Clydach murders on 20:33 - Oct 23 with 1598 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 20:30 - Oct 23 by Tim_Harry |
Even if he was innocent in that interview he'd have realised that there was a lot of evidence pointing to his guilt. Or do you really think that he was too stupid to know that?
Four life sentences potentially at stake, or being in the doghouse with your missus.
No contest! |
How do you know he would have realised that? When in fact there wasn't that much evidence was there? What interview was it that he said that in? The first interview? The 5th? The 10th? The police don't show their full hand in the first interview, for example.
If he knew that he didn't do it, he would have it in his mind that he'd soon be out of there. I have no idea if he was stupid or not. | |
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| Clydach murders on 20:38 - Oct 23 with 1588 views | Garyjack |
| Clydach murders on 20:24 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
Exactly that, yeah.
As explained to Gary, if he was innocent in that interview room, he'd be thinking "I'm out of here in an hour, no way am i admitting to having an affair, f*ck that!". |
If he was innocent in that interview room room, he wouldn't lie. It's 4 horrific murders we're talking about here, and he had a whole year to think about it. C'mon Neathie ff's man. You'll always find discrepancies and doubt when cases such as these are aired on national television, but common sense tells you who the murderer is, and that is David Morris. | | | |
| Clydach murdersL on 20:40 - Oct 23 with 1585 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 18:41 - Oct 23 by Neath_Jack |
I'm going to jump in here...
Point 1, someone drinking 8 pints and a bit of whizz, makes no difference to someone seeing him or not. What is your reasoning there? He could have walked along the river bank for a start.
Personally, I wouldn't pay much notice to the guy who sat on it for 20 years, but, there's nothing wrong with being on a mountain at 4am. We used to do it as teenagers all the time. Go up there out of the way, do a load of magic mushrooms, or smoke some spliffs and cans. Out of the way of everyone. No issues with that at all. It's obviously not part of your lifestyle, even as a youngster, so would seem alien to you.
The distinctive chain, and a witness saying they remembered his not wearing it in the pub. Over ONE YEAR later? Absolutely no chance! Are you telling me you can remember what jewellery someone had on in a pub over a year ago? Nonsense.
I'm going to take a stab here and assume that you have never been arrested. Trust me, if you think saying something is going to get you out of the police station quickly, you'll say it. Yes that is a bad idea, but that is what happens. Especially so if you are panicking about the seriousness of the allegations against you. Don't forget, he was trying to cover up the fact that he was carrying on, don't under estimate what that will make a man say.
I'm not saying he is innocent or guilty, I genuinely don't know. |
He didnt go along some river bank. He states he went from the New Inn up to this home on Rhyddwen Road in Craig Cefn Parc then over Rhyddwen Road towards the Masons in Rhydypandy then on the back Road coming out just past Morriston Hospital then from there to Llangyfelach. His girlfriend however claimed he came home 3-4 hours earlier. This journey is approximately 5 miles and the journey back 4 miles. I have stayed a number of times in my sisters house looking after my mother on Saturday nights and there is quite a lot of traffic passing at around 11.30 pm. Most of it is in the opposite direction to the way Morris went.
However the roads he went on dont have pavements and tend to be quite windy. You would have traffic passing you often coming back. Nobody came forward to having seen anyone walking there and as said previously his version is contrary to his girlfriends.
The guy wasnt a teenager at the time and most of the teenagers in our area have other places they can go to do what you suggest. They can go down by the river no houses about or use the fields or even Parks and many do. They do not need to go over a mile up a mountain. As I say he wasn't a teenager anyway. If he is to believed he just happened to be coming down the mountain at the same time as Steven Lewis was walking up there on what is probably a 4 mile walk to his then home. It is also assuming Lewis knew the area. He wasn't from the areas and as far as I am aware hadn't served as a policeman. Wouldnt he have had a car for his getaway rather than walking over the mountain if he was going to kill Mandy and Co. How did he get there. Walking 4 miles over a mountain. Do you really believe that. This is really going to be under heavy questioning should there be a retrial.
As far as the chain people who knew Morris claim he always wore this very distinctive chain and never went anywhere without it. He was in a pub with people who knew him. Do you not think his friends would have noticed this. Bit like Mr Prosser going in with a short haircut. Wouldnt his friends notice that . Even if they didnt remember the day they would remember seeing him without it.
Morris claimed he hadn't been upstairs in Mandy's house. He claimed the chain was not his and got someone to buy an identical one for him to prove the one in the house wasn't his.
When he found out the police had evidence of the chain being his and that it was upstairs he changed his story to stay he had been in the house and had sex with Mandy upstairs.
As for the BBCs claim he wasnt the first suspected. Early on he was the subject of the investigation however he had 2 key alibis. He had his chain and his girlfriend claimed he was at home in the early hours. They thought it might have been someone else but all along believed that the owner of the chain would lead them to the murderer. | | | |
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