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I'd say the reason we go on about Bury so much is that it is pure unadulterated voyeurism. I think R17 described it many years ago as "rubber necking". For all their ups and downs over the past 20 years, the one thing it has never been (off the fieldl) is dull.
Its become even more fascinating since Stewie came in. I've long since stopped trying to work out what's going on. The loans over the years would have scared me to death if they happened to us, especially with all the CCJ's, but I'd imagine there must be some comfort to a Bury fan that they keep happening as you can't keep getting loan after loan without something to back it up.
We're well past the stage where it looked like Stewie was out to rip Bury off, as if they were to sell the lot tomorrow, it wouldn't be enough to pay for all the various loans over the years. For me, it now looks nothing more than a young single lad who made plenty of money from his student housing and wanted to play real life Championship Manager (and it will always be CM and not FM!) hence all the "naive" mistakes made over the years. I'd hazard a guess that the loans are a "questionable" way of funding it rather than just genuine loans. But could well be wrong.
There has been genuine intrigue and concern from Dale supporters towards the goings on over at Bury since SD came in. As R11 will know, there has been information passed from Dale supporters to them which hasn't always made the public domain in support of them. And it's been a similar level of support shown to other clubs in their perceived hour of need.
That genuine concern has been tarnished by a perception that Bury supporters were far too happy to go along with it and worry about it later. Me and R11 have disagreed on this in the past, but it has seemed that those amongst the Bury support have been in a very small minority, and the #enjoytheriders have lapped it up in numbers.
Maybe that's a local rivalry thing, but I dare say the #enjoytheriders have stopped many sympathies amongst our fan base. After all, let's not forget that the spending beyond your means does impact on us and other clubs around us. Can't say Carl Lewis was overly enamoured with Ben Johnson, because let's be fair its nowt but financial doping.
From the outside looking in, it does seem like the only action taken thus far has been a letter to the Bury Times, which is hardly going to bring the regime to its knees or stop the club running like Stewie's playing Brewster's Millions. I do disagree with the "what else can we do?" as I'm sure the supporters of Brighton, Blackpool, Leyton Orient, AFC Wimbledon amongst others can testify to.
There's so many things supporters can do to apply pressure whether it be GMR phone ins, bedsheets, chants at matches, prematch leaflet drops, boycotts etc. Even the more extreme stuff like pitch invasions can play a part. It might sound trivial in comparison but years back the board decided to give the home terrace to Burnley when they were coming to town to try and maximise the income from the game. And despite this being in the preinternet days where its easier to plan these things, the fans revolted, protested during and after the next home match to the extent that the club acted and gave us back our terrace.
I accept the difficult position the Bury Trust were put in, but whilst its a great resource, at the end of the day, its just a portakabin (modular building, outhouse, small shed thingy). A Trust is a mouthpiece for the supporters, and had Stewie had the portakabin (modular building, outhouse, small shed thingy) removed, that in itself could have been the biggest own goal he's ever scored. For a body of supporters to be removed from the club for having the temerity to voice concerns, that might have had much more weight amongst the fanbase than seemingly giving an organisation its backing.
At the very least, you'd expect to see a statement on their website raising concerns. Good relations are essential, as we at the Dale Trust enjoy with our club, but there are times when the supporters need representing and if that's against the club, then so be it. To quote the great Billy Bragg "there is power in a union".
I'd say the reason we go on about Bury so much is that it is pure unadulterated voyeurism. I think R17 described it many years ago as "rubber necking". For all their ups and downs over the past 20 years, the one thing it has never been (off the fieldl) is dull.
Its become even more fascinating since Stewie came in. I've long since stopped trying to work out what's going on. The loans over the years would have scared me to death if they happened to us, especially with all the CCJ's, but I'd imagine there must be some comfort to a Bury fan that they keep happening as you can't keep getting loan after loan without something to back it up.
We're well past the stage where it looked like Stewie was out to rip Bury off, as if they were to sell the lot tomorrow, it wouldn't be enough to pay for all the various loans over the years. For me, it now looks nothing more than a young single lad who made plenty of money from his student housing and wanted to play real life Championship Manager (and it will always be CM and not FM!) hence all the "naive" mistakes made over the years. I'd hazard a guess that the loans are a "questionable" way of funding it rather than just genuine loans. But could well be wrong.
There has been genuine intrigue and concern from Dale supporters towards the goings on over at Bury since SD came in. As R11 will know, there has been information passed from Dale supporters to them which hasn't always made the public domain in support of them. And it's been a similar level of support shown to other clubs in their perceived hour of need.
That genuine concern has been tarnished by a perception that Bury supporters were far too happy to go along with it and worry about it later. Me and R11 have disagreed on this in the past, but it has seemed that those amongst the Bury support have been in a very small minority, and the #enjoytheriders have lapped it up in numbers.
Maybe that's a local rivalry thing, but I dare say the #enjoytheriders have stopped many sympathies amongst our fan base. After all, let's not forget that the spending beyond your means does impact on us and other clubs around us. Can't say Carl Lewis was overly enamoured with Ben Johnson, because let's be fair its nowt but financial doping.
From the outside looking in, it does seem like the only action taken thus far has been a letter to the Bury Times, which is hardly going to bring the regime to its knees or stop the club running like Stewie's playing Brewster's Millions. I do disagree with the "what else can we do?" as I'm sure the supporters of Brighton, Blackpool, Leyton Orient, AFC Wimbledon amongst others can testify to.
There's so many things supporters can do to apply pressure whether it be GMR phone ins, bedsheets, chants at matches, prematch leaflet drops, boycotts etc. Even the more extreme stuff like pitch invasions can play a part. It might sound trivial in comparison but years back the board decided to give the home terrace to Burnley when they were coming to town to try and maximise the income from the game. And despite this being in the preinternet days where its easier to plan these things, the fans revolted, protested during and after the next home match to the extent that the club acted and gave us back our terrace.
I accept the difficult position the Bury Trust were put in, but whilst its a great resource, at the end of the day, its just a portakabin (modular building, outhouse, small shed thingy). A Trust is a mouthpiece for the supporters, and had Stewie had the portakabin (modular building, outhouse, small shed thingy) removed, that in itself could have been the biggest own goal he's ever scored. For a body of supporters to be removed from the club for having the temerity to voice concerns, that might have had much more weight amongst the fanbase than seemingly giving an organisation its backing.
At the very least, you'd expect to see a statement on their website raising concerns. Good relations are essential, as we at the Dale Trust enjoy with our club, but there are times when the supporters need representing and if that's against the club, then so be it. To quote the great Billy Bragg "there is power in a union".
as always Col the voice of reason, your ability to put both sides of the argument without prejudice is almost statesman like.
as always Col the voice of reason, your ability to put both sides of the argument without prejudice is almost statesman like.
Agreed, it's an excellent overall post.
I would take exception to:
From the outside looking in, it does seem like the only action taken thus far has been a letter to the Bury Times...
...we've done far more. Not got time to go into them all as i'm off to Oxford soon, but for example we got David Conn to do a national newspaper article, we have a group of supporters who look into all things financial (and fair play, Dale fans have helped us as well with some info), i myself have had a personal meeting with Mr Day for over 2 hours sharing my concerns, we've managed to list Gigg Lane as a 'community asset' and i know fans who have and do boycott games, etc.
But i do accept we (and indeed Forever Bury) could have done more, especially a more organised campaign; i suppose we wanted a working relationship. As Col rightly says, Mr Day hasnt come in to asset strip...more a deluded FM (or CM!) player, built on sand imo.
Good to see a well balanced thought out post though...it must have taken you ages Col. Well done.
And as for Billy Bragg...any opportunity to watch this again!
For God loved the world so much, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him, may not die, but have eternal life. John 3:16
Very interesting and good couple of posts from Col and R11 there. Imho, it is much more laudable for us to try to help the genuine Bury fans, than to hurl abuse and derision at the loons. In this life, what goes around comes around and none of us know if/when the boot could be on the other foot. Together, people are stronger.
I'd say the reason we go on about Bury so much is that it is pure unadulterated voyeurism. I think R17 described it many years ago as "rubber necking". For all their ups and downs over the past 20 years, the one thing it has never been (off the fieldl) is dull.
Its become even more fascinating since Stewie came in. I've long since stopped trying to work out what's going on. The loans over the years would have scared me to death if they happened to us, especially with all the CCJ's, but I'd imagine there must be some comfort to a Bury fan that they keep happening as you can't keep getting loan after loan without something to back it up.
We're well past the stage where it looked like Stewie was out to rip Bury off, as if they were to sell the lot tomorrow, it wouldn't be enough to pay for all the various loans over the years. For me, it now looks nothing more than a young single lad who made plenty of money from his student housing and wanted to play real life Championship Manager (and it will always be CM and not FM!) hence all the "naive" mistakes made over the years. I'd hazard a guess that the loans are a "questionable" way of funding it rather than just genuine loans. But could well be wrong.
There has been genuine intrigue and concern from Dale supporters towards the goings on over at Bury since SD came in. As R11 will know, there has been information passed from Dale supporters to them which hasn't always made the public domain in support of them. And it's been a similar level of support shown to other clubs in their perceived hour of need.
That genuine concern has been tarnished by a perception that Bury supporters were far too happy to go along with it and worry about it later. Me and R11 have disagreed on this in the past, but it has seemed that those amongst the Bury support have been in a very small minority, and the #enjoytheriders have lapped it up in numbers.
Maybe that's a local rivalry thing, but I dare say the #enjoytheriders have stopped many sympathies amongst our fan base. After all, let's not forget that the spending beyond your means does impact on us and other clubs around us. Can't say Carl Lewis was overly enamoured with Ben Johnson, because let's be fair its nowt but financial doping.
From the outside looking in, it does seem like the only action taken thus far has been a letter to the Bury Times, which is hardly going to bring the regime to its knees or stop the club running like Stewie's playing Brewster's Millions. I do disagree with the "what else can we do?" as I'm sure the supporters of Brighton, Blackpool, Leyton Orient, AFC Wimbledon amongst others can testify to.
There's so many things supporters can do to apply pressure whether it be GMR phone ins, bedsheets, chants at matches, prematch leaflet drops, boycotts etc. Even the more extreme stuff like pitch invasions can play a part. It might sound trivial in comparison but years back the board decided to give the home terrace to Burnley when they were coming to town to try and maximise the income from the game. And despite this being in the preinternet days where its easier to plan these things, the fans revolted, protested during and after the next home match to the extent that the club acted and gave us back our terrace.
I accept the difficult position the Bury Trust were put in, but whilst its a great resource, at the end of the day, its just a portakabin (modular building, outhouse, small shed thingy). A Trust is a mouthpiece for the supporters, and had Stewie had the portakabin (modular building, outhouse, small shed thingy) removed, that in itself could have been the biggest own goal he's ever scored. For a body of supporters to be removed from the club for having the temerity to voice concerns, that might have had much more weight amongst the fanbase than seemingly giving an organisation its backing.
At the very least, you'd expect to see a statement on their website raising concerns. Good relations are essential, as we at the Dale Trust enjoy with our club, but there are times when the supporters need representing and if that's against the club, then so be it. To quote the great Billy Bragg "there is power in a union".
Rumour chris lucketti on 18:54 - Nov 22 by nordenblue
Does he still live in Norden anybody know,his kids went to school there I do know Worth remembering...
Club gets new manager Fans get excited Lose a few Fans start looking deeper and focus on the chairman Fans criticise manager as losses continue Fans focus even more on the chairman Chairman sacks manager Get new manager Wins a game or two Fans forget about chairman and focus on football.
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