| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... 13:58 - May 9 with 115155 views | hubble |
..posted by a good friend of mine on Facebook, thought I'd share it on here. He's a former professional footballer (briefly for Birmingham City) and a former copper, working mainly out of Camden police station. He grew up in Kilburn/Queens Park. He's now a writer (among other things).
Worth a read I think, hope you enjoy, whether you agree with him or not, even when he veers off-topic...
"Thoughts of the Week (part 1)
Let’s start with a subheading. ‘Dear, oh dear Diane Abbot!’
In the upcoming General Election campaign and apart from the ‘Leader’ (no, not Gary Glitter) no one is more important for the Labour Party campaign than the Shadow Home Secretary. Why’s this? You ask.
The reason is obvious: Theresa May —the strong woman, Ms subtle, but steely - was the former Home Secretary. A position which she used to inflict near terminal ravages of the nation’s police forces. Under her auspices we saw numbers cut, benefits cut and police stations closed willy-nilly to cash in, short-term, on the booming (especially in London) property market.
The short-sightedness of this policy is astounding. No matter the so-called austerity budget (which only seems to apply to the working classes, while the privileged elite continue to live the life of Riley) the question must be asked as to what will happen when there’s some serious social unrest — and you can feel it stirring. Remember 2011 when the riots broke out? We had anarchy and nihilism on the streets and the police force didn’t cope with it at all. Instead we had a grand mopping up campaign. Suddenly all those poor silly students who had been demonised as hard-core criminals after they smashed the windows of the Tory HQ — and received ridiculously harsh prison sentences for what were in the main first offences - were kicked out of the pokey and replaced by the new batch of rioters. The Criminal Justice system ground to a halt, the prison’s overflowed. The courts were as ram-jam packed as a back-in-the-day David Rodigan dance. In response what did the great Theresa May do? She further decimated the police force. She did the same to the prison service. The vaunted Border Force, our first defence, is comically short of manpower and morale as they attempt to hire staff on Mickey-Mouse contracts. Labour should be slaughtering Theresa May on what she’s done. Instead we got that car crash of an interview on LBC.
To be honest I resisted calls to listen to it for a time. Some of my more right-leaning pals were raving about it, but I thought they were overreacting due to a general contempt for the Hackney MP. I was wrong. When I actually got round to listening to it I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. It was stunningly incompetent, mind-blowingly nonsensical, embarrassing and shocking. Is this the Shadow Home Secretary who’s going to lead the challenge to Theresa May’s record? She should have stood down immediately and if not the great leader should have forced her hand, no matter past rendezvous in the sack. Of course it didn’t happen and Labour under Jeremy Corbyn has no hope in this election. What a shame it all is because there are loads of issues that they should be taking the government to task on. Just look at that bumbling Tommy Cooper impersonator of a Foreign Secretary, a million miles removed from a serious statesman: Mr Retraction — an embarrassment to the nation.
I’m voting Labour in the coming election, but not for Jeremy, more for the thought of the millions of people who are going to suffer under the coming five years of Tory rule: the working men and women who haven’t seen their wages rise, in real terms, for the last thirty years, while the fat cats, sharks and speculators are minted; the students starting out life saddled with debt; the millions who’ll never be able to afford a home; and in honour of the National Health Service, soon to be dismantled further, but remaining the brightest light in the nation’s modern history. What a rotten, unfair and unbalanced society we’ve become.
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 19:55 - Jun 2 with 1938 views | essextaxiboy |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 19:34 - Jun 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
You are embarrassing yourself now Essex. |
I dont think so Baz, not much embarrases me , my boys will tell you that
I realised a night or two ago that I wasnt debating with just you but a whole Party system of stock responses backing you up .
If I posted an anti Semetism post now , you will have a diversion link ready to go.
Fair play, its slick and well organised , it may even be working amongst the young.
I respect your dedication to the ideals , especially the actual campaigning that you do
But its just not what I thought it was TBH ...... |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:07 - Jun 2 with 1911 views | essextaxiboy |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 19:15 - Jun 2 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Seen this today
Here's what I'm really struggling to understand...
All I've ever heard from people, for years, is
"bloody bankers and their bonuses"
"bloody rich and their offshore tax havens "
"bloody politicians with their lying and second homes"
“bloody corporations paying less tax than me”
"bloody Establishment, they're all in it together”
“it'll never change, there's no point in voting”
And quite rightly so, I said all the same things.
But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich.
The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person.
So The media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with…
“she's strong and stable”
“he's a clown”
“he's not a leader”
“look he can't even control his own party”
“he'll ruin the economy”
“how's he gonna pay for it all?!”
“AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser”
And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them.
We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying
“he's a clown”
“he’s a threat to the country”
“she's strong and stable”
“he'll take us back to the 70s”
And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. Theres no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) Because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen.
And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together.
You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in?
You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in?
You think the barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in?
You think Philip Green, who "mismanaged" all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns topshop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in?
You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in?
You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in?
You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in?
And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately.
Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us.
He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election.
His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there. Unlike the tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up.
And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone.
The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners. |
I would just pick out on line to comment on .
The Tory politicians hate him (natch) as do most of the Labour politicians .
How is he going to fill 20 plus Ministerial posts and all the back up ministers from his supporters .
None of his MPs have ever been in Government
How will he find Brexit negotiators ready to go in 10 days .
How will he demand loyalty from the PLP when he voted against his own party hundreds of times .
The actual nuts and bolts of Governing seem beyond his loyal group ..to me anyway | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:09 - Jun 2 with 1907 views | QPR_Jim |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 19:31 - Jun 2 by essextaxiboy |
Downloading it is in the handbook page 23 .Just after how to swamp a phone in and how to convince a BBC researcher that you are undecided ... |
It's interesting you should think that there's some sort of guidance on how to think about politics. The right are surprisingly consistent with their use of words like snowflake, cuck, libtard etc , it's almost as if they receive briefings, so is it something you've come across before? |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:20 - Jun 2 with 1891 views | essextaxiboy |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:09 - Jun 2 by QPR_Jim |
It's interesting you should think that there's some sort of guidance on how to think about politics. The right are surprisingly consistent with their use of words like snowflake, cuck, libtard etc , it's almost as if they receive briefings, so is it something you've come across before? |
No , those phrases came from the Trump campaign I thought ?
I am just one bloke defending his (not very extreme) views .........on my own .
The only person who briefs me is Mrs Taxiboy...... [Post edited 2 Jun 2017 20:21]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 21:27 - Jun 2 with 1816 views | QPR_Jim |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:20 - Jun 2 by essextaxiboy |
No , those phrases came from the Trump campaign I thought ?
I am just one bloke defending his (not very extreme) views .........on my own .
The only person who briefs me is Mrs Taxiboy...... [Post edited 2 Jun 2017 20:21]
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I didn't mean to say you were, I'm just wondering if you've ever had the same thoughts about other people. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 22:16 - Jun 2 with 1753 views | essextaxiboy |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 21:27 - Jun 2 by QPR_Jim |
I didn't mean to say you were, I'm just wondering if you've ever had the same thoughts about other people. |
No , you won't find a post on here from me calling anyone a name . It diminishes the point you are trying to make . I don't answer posts that do it either .. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 22:34 - Jun 2 with 1716 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Well we know that if the tories win they will at least be fecking Essex and his boys in the gob and arse just as hard as the the rest of us that are not elites , he won't be complaining as he bent over and dropped his cacks by voting for them to do it
A plastic tory
The working class can kiss my arse...... |  |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 22:39 - Jun 2 with 1706 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Bernie Sanders, was giving a speech in Oxford in which he condemned President Trump's withdrawal from the Paris agreement on climate change.
He stopped short of endorsing Jeremy Corbyn for prime minister but praised the Labour leader for "trying to revitalise democracy".
He said: "[Jeremy Corbyn] is talking about income and wealth inequality, and I happen to think there is no issue more important in the United States and around the world than that issue is." | |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 22:40 - Jun 2 with 1704 views | essextaxiboy |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 22:34 - Jun 2 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Well we know that if the tories win they will at least be fecking Essex and his boys in the gob and arse just as hard as the the rest of us that are not elites , he won't be complaining as he bent over and dropped his cacks by voting for them to do it
A plastic tory
The working class can kiss my arse...... |
2 of the boys have voted Labour by post already , One of them under advice by me after he did the quiz Pom put up and text me the result .
I will be ok ..... | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 23:19 - Jun 2 with 1649 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
For me this election is about morality and as far as I can see the tories have had none in the last 7 years and are showing they won't have any should they win. | |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 23:28 - Jun 2 with 1632 views | Hunterhoop |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 22:34 - Jun 2 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Well we know that if the tories win they will at least be fecking Essex and his boys in the gob and arse just as hard as the the rest of us that are not elites , he won't be complaining as he bent over and dropped his cacks by voting for them to do it
A plastic tory
The working class can kiss my arse...... |
T2B, give it a rest, mate.
I've had many a disagreement with Essex on here. But he does come across like a decent bloke and a pretty sensible, humble bloke to boot.
You disagree with him on politics. I disagree with him on politics. You and I disagree on politics! It's like we're all entitled to our own opinion and own vote. I genuinely think he should be voting for the LDs, based on the views he's communicated (yes, i know, broken record), but I respect his right to vote for whoever he likes. Ditto you, Baz, FDC, etc. We can try to persuade people to our viewpoint, but no need to slag him off like that.
If Essex was being way out of order in explaining his opinions, e.g. rascist, derogatory, offensive (i've done that to some posters years back, and regretted it, and apologised), then it's different. Be he is a remarkably composed poster, and he doesn't deserve that sort of attempt at personal assassination.
It's been pretty good on here in terms of political discussion, but it's getting a little "social media" now. We're all Rangers, remember.
I'll never forget his Redknapp defence though!  [Post edited 2 Jun 2017 23:45]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 23:39 - Jun 2 with 1618 views | Northernr |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 22:34 - Jun 2 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Well we know that if the tories win they will at least be fecking Essex and his boys in the gob and arse just as hard as the the rest of us that are not elites , he won't be complaining as he bent over and dropped his cacks by voting for them to do it
A plastic tory
The working class can kiss my arse...... |
Rein it in. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 01:08 - Jun 3 with 1577 views | Boston |
This threads like Coronation St, I just check in to the last couple of posts every four or five days...same old story. |  |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:17 - Jun 3 with 1507 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 23:28 - Jun 2 by Hunterhoop |
T2B, give it a rest, mate.
I've had many a disagreement with Essex on here. But he does come across like a decent bloke and a pretty sensible, humble bloke to boot.
You disagree with him on politics. I disagree with him on politics. You and I disagree on politics! It's like we're all entitled to our own opinion and own vote. I genuinely think he should be voting for the LDs, based on the views he's communicated (yes, i know, broken record), but I respect his right to vote for whoever he likes. Ditto you, Baz, FDC, etc. We can try to persuade people to our viewpoint, but no need to slag him off like that.
If Essex was being way out of order in explaining his opinions, e.g. rascist, derogatory, offensive (i've done that to some posters years back, and regretted it, and apologised), then it's different. Be he is a remarkably composed poster, and he doesn't deserve that sort of attempt at personal assassination.
It's been pretty good on here in terms of political discussion, but it's getting a little "social media" now. We're all Rangers, remember.
I'll never forget his Redknapp defence though! [Post edited 2 Jun 2017 23:45]
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As he said "he" will be ok so I'm not going to apologize for using him as an example same as he would not apologize for his view of Labour voters.
After Tiny Tim's political suicide the other night a vote for them is a vote for the tories, they are a non entity alone and we are in a 2 party election
In football/Rangers we have agreed on a lot of things but I don't see why that matters on this subject. As Essex said his boys have voted Labour unless they support the scum  there is still a lovein on football
A lot more people are going to be more worried about feeding the kids, their kids education, keeping or finding a home than buying a ticket to Rangers and having BostonR saying " you aint got no say as you don't go to games. [Post edited 3 Jun 2017 8:26]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:18 - Jun 3 with 1505 views | Brightonhoop |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 01:08 - Jun 3 by Boston |
This threads like Coronation St, I just check in to the last couple of posts every four or five days...same old story. |
Interesting ideas and commentary though, and not that verbally abusive either. Good thread so far. One week to go plus the post mortem. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:23 - Jun 3 with 1497 views | ElHoop |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 23:19 - Jun 2 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
For me this election is about morality and as far as I can see the tories have had none in the last 7 years and are showing they won't have any should they win. |
I'm definitely veering towards Labour this time, but I would consider that to be an extreme view. It's borderline provocative in its implication that any support for the Tories from 2010 onwards is immoral. Given the financial position back then and the uncertainty about the future ability to finance the large deficit, there wasn't much choice and certainly the Tories and the Libs reached an agreement on a way forward which didn't seem particularly immoral in those circumstances. So that's a sweeping statement that you have made there. I'm greatly annoyed at the rewriting of history since 2010 by many people and that to a great extent wipes out my sympathy towards Corbyn during the campaign. I'm not sure that much maligned Farage abused the truth in the same way in 2015 (or 2016), but that's another issue anyway.
But we are where we are. Whether you agreed with it or not, austerity got us to a different position to where we might have been without it. You may say that we'd have been better off without it, we'll never know and in any event it's water under the bridge. This election is about where we go next. My perception is that Labour has a more interesting post-austerity plan than the Tories currently possess. It's a gamble either way, but it seems to me that this is more of a 1946 sort of situation and we need some different ideas and those different ideas just don't look like coming from the Tories. I don't really see the Tory 'picture' of life in the UK in ten years from now. I don't like all of the Labour picture either, but it's a proper picture and it's not wholly unattractive. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:43 - Jun 3 with 1489 views | Hunterhoop |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:17 - Jun 3 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
As he said "he" will be ok so I'm not going to apologize for using him as an example same as he would not apologize for his view of Labour voters.
After Tiny Tim's political suicide the other night a vote for them is a vote for the tories, they are a non entity alone and we are in a 2 party election
In football/Rangers we have agreed on a lot of things but I don't see why that matters on this subject. As Essex said his boys have voted Labour unless they support the scum there is still a lovein on football
A lot more people are going to be more worried about feeding the kids, their kids education, keeping or finding a home than buying a ticket to Rangers and having BostonR saying " you aint got no say as you don't go to games. [Post edited 3 Jun 2017 8:26]
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Absolute nonsense.
In Kingston, in Twickenham, as two examples in next door boroughs, is a vote for the LDs a vote for the Tories?! They are Tory seats where LDs are the 2nd party by miles. And any vote for the LDs is a clear vote for a softer Brexit, which I think is important. You're myopic in your view of this election and Politics.
Of course, if we had a proper Proportional Representation electoral system, we wouldn't be having been this discussion about wasted votes. Everyone's vote would be worth something. But that's not in the Tories' OR Labour's interests, so it won't happen. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:45 - Jun 3 with 1484 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:23 - Jun 3 by ElHoop |
I'm definitely veering towards Labour this time, but I would consider that to be an extreme view. It's borderline provocative in its implication that any support for the Tories from 2010 onwards is immoral. Given the financial position back then and the uncertainty about the future ability to finance the large deficit, there wasn't much choice and certainly the Tories and the Libs reached an agreement on a way forward which didn't seem particularly immoral in those circumstances. So that's a sweeping statement that you have made there. I'm greatly annoyed at the rewriting of history since 2010 by many people and that to a great extent wipes out my sympathy towards Corbyn during the campaign. I'm not sure that much maligned Farage abused the truth in the same way in 2015 (or 2016), but that's another issue anyway.
But we are where we are. Whether you agreed with it or not, austerity got us to a different position to where we might have been without it. You may say that we'd have been better off without it, we'll never know and in any event it's water under the bridge. This election is about where we go next. My perception is that Labour has a more interesting post-austerity plan than the Tories currently possess. It's a gamble either way, but it seems to me that this is more of a 1946 sort of situation and we need some different ideas and those different ideas just don't look like coming from the Tories. I don't really see the Tory 'picture' of life in the UK in ten years from now. I don't like all of the Labour picture either, but it's a proper picture and it's not wholly unattractive. |
I hear ya but that burden has not been equally shared, this is why you did have those that have done ok since and out of being in the EU voted to stay and those that have not vote to leave, austerity. not investing in infrastructure, had as much to do with the leave vote as anything else but the blame was fired at the EU. had the Tories invested in building homes, schools, education,NHS, training........ the vote could have been to remain.
I voted to leave but I did not lose sight that it was the tory austerity along with no controls on immigration the situation was never going to get better, austerity and lack of investment will continue under the tories, in fact I believe they will bear down even harder on those that can least afford it and blame it on Brexit.
Tories In 2010 said the deficit will be gone by 2015. In 2015 said it will be gone in a couple of years. Now it's not going to be gone until 2025 - austerity has failed the tories have failed.
[Post edited 3 Jun 2017 9:21]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:52 - Jun 3 with 1467 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:43 - Jun 3 by Hunterhoop |
Absolute nonsense.
In Kingston, in Twickenham, as two examples in next door boroughs, is a vote for the LDs a vote for the Tories?! They are Tory seats where LDs are the 2nd party by miles. And any vote for the LDs is a clear vote for a softer Brexit, which I think is important. You're myopic in your view of this election and Politics.
Of course, if we had a proper Proportional Representation electoral system, we wouldn't be having been this discussion about wasted votes. Everyone's vote would be worth something. But that's not in the Tories' OR Labour's interests, so it won't happen. |
Come back when you have more than 6 seats
NO come back when you have seats in the 100's you may be worth listening to then but it won't be in my life time or yours.
As always just wishful thinking by the Lids, people saw right through you when you sat on the tories lap and you got massacred in the last election and people won't forgive or forget that for a long time.
On PR where ever vote counts
Well you had that with the referendum and people are still complaining [Post edited 3 Jun 2017 10:23]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:55 - Jun 3 with 1460 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:23 - Jun 3 by ElHoop |
I'm definitely veering towards Labour this time, but I would consider that to be an extreme view. It's borderline provocative in its implication that any support for the Tories from 2010 onwards is immoral. Given the financial position back then and the uncertainty about the future ability to finance the large deficit, there wasn't much choice and certainly the Tories and the Libs reached an agreement on a way forward which didn't seem particularly immoral in those circumstances. So that's a sweeping statement that you have made there. I'm greatly annoyed at the rewriting of history since 2010 by many people and that to a great extent wipes out my sympathy towards Corbyn during the campaign. I'm not sure that much maligned Farage abused the truth in the same way in 2015 (or 2016), but that's another issue anyway.
But we are where we are. Whether you agreed with it or not, austerity got us to a different position to where we might have been without it. You may say that we'd have been better off without it, we'll never know and in any event it's water under the bridge. This election is about where we go next. My perception is that Labour has a more interesting post-austerity plan than the Tories currently possess. It's a gamble either way, but it seems to me that this is more of a 1946 sort of situation and we need some different ideas and those different ideas just don't look like coming from the Tories. I don't really see the Tory 'picture' of life in the UK in ten years from now. I don't like all of the Labour picture either, but it's a proper picture and it's not wholly unattractive. |
That's a great balanced post mate. It makes a change from a lot of the "holier than thou" stuff that has been prevalent on this thread. [Post edited 3 Jun 2017 8:55]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 09:08 - Jun 3 with 1423 views | Brightonhoop |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:23 - Jun 3 by ElHoop |
I'm definitely veering towards Labour this time, but I would consider that to be an extreme view. It's borderline provocative in its implication that any support for the Tories from 2010 onwards is immoral. Given the financial position back then and the uncertainty about the future ability to finance the large deficit, there wasn't much choice and certainly the Tories and the Libs reached an agreement on a way forward which didn't seem particularly immoral in those circumstances. So that's a sweeping statement that you have made there. I'm greatly annoyed at the rewriting of history since 2010 by many people and that to a great extent wipes out my sympathy towards Corbyn during the campaign. I'm not sure that much maligned Farage abused the truth in the same way in 2015 (or 2016), but that's another issue anyway.
But we are where we are. Whether you agreed with it or not, austerity got us to a different position to where we might have been without it. You may say that we'd have been better off without it, we'll never know and in any event it's water under the bridge. This election is about where we go next. My perception is that Labour has a more interesting post-austerity plan than the Tories currently possess. It's a gamble either way, but it seems to me that this is more of a 1946 sort of situation and we need some different ideas and those different ideas just don't look like coming from the Tories. I don't really see the Tory 'picture' of life in the UK in ten years from now. I don't like all of the Labour picture either, but it's a proper picture and it's not wholly unattractive. |
Good post. Problem with no choice but the Tories is you're always electing the nasty party, one nation Tories are gone I think. And only a couple of years down the line you get the IDS loons tightening the screw on genuinely claiming benefits, and 30, 000 dead disabled people declared fit for work. The only ones safe on benefits now are ATOS. It's a disguting way to govern where the safety net for people who have worked hard all their lives get I'll and cannot claim the help/ insurance they've pre paid for fifty years.
So they are equally unelectable. Horrible people that are as much a threat to the nations well being as out and out enemies of England.
On Taxi, he's disingenuous at times but never goes into name calling to his credit. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:18 - Jun 3 with 1369 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:43 - Jun 3 by Hunterhoop |
Absolute nonsense.
In Kingston, in Twickenham, as two examples in next door boroughs, is a vote for the LDs a vote for the Tories?! They are Tory seats where LDs are the 2nd party by miles. And any vote for the LDs is a clear vote for a softer Brexit, which I think is important. You're myopic in your view of this election and Politics.
Of course, if we had a proper Proportional Representation electoral system, we wouldn't be having been this discussion about wasted votes. Everyone's vote would be worth something. But that's not in the Tories' OR Labour's interests, so it won't happen. |
FYI
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/proportional-representation-electo |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:48 - Jun 3 with 1345 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:07 - Jun 2 by essextaxiboy |
I would just pick out on line to comment on .
The Tory politicians hate him (natch) as do most of the Labour politicians .
How is he going to fill 20 plus Ministerial posts and all the back up ministers from his supporters .
None of his MPs have ever been in Government
How will he find Brexit negotiators ready to go in 10 days .
How will he demand loyalty from the PLP when he voted against his own party hundreds of times .
The actual nuts and bolts of Governing seem beyond his loyal group ..to me anyway |
Damn I upvoted you
It's interesting that today that Miliband you know the one who was against JC says he wishes he had this Labour manifesto and is backing JC
So to say the PLP won't support him is not necessarily true, yes there will be those that won't, but not all tories will support May if this election does not deliver what she set out to do and win a large majority. | |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:59 - Jun 3 with 1322 views | Brightonhoop |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:48 - Jun 3 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Damn I upvoted you
It's interesting that today that Miliband you know the one who was against JC says he wishes he had this Labour manifesto and is backing JC
So to say the PLP won't support him is not necessarily true, yes there will be those that won't, but not all tories will support May if this election does not deliver what she set out to do and win a large majority. |
If JCwins this, all the old Blairites will be out to say what a great leader and how they knew he would win blah blah blah where's the gravy train etc | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:01 - Jun 3 with 1316 views | ElHoop |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 09:08 - Jun 3 by Brightonhoop |
Good post. Problem with no choice but the Tories is you're always electing the nasty party, one nation Tories are gone I think. And only a couple of years down the line you get the IDS loons tightening the screw on genuinely claiming benefits, and 30, 000 dead disabled people declared fit for work. The only ones safe on benefits now are ATOS. It's a disguting way to govern where the safety net for people who have worked hard all their lives get I'll and cannot claim the help/ insurance they've pre paid for fifty years.
So they are equally unelectable. Horrible people that are as much a threat to the nations well being as out and out enemies of England.
On Taxi, he's disingenuous at times but never goes into name calling to his credit. |
Thanks. IDS has always been one of my few favourite Tories so I don't agree about him and there's little or nothing to suggest that his Universal Credits regime is going to be radically altered whoever wins the election. He was humiliated during his period as party leader and was knocked out again by Osborne (where he now?) but he's still in there so he must love the game, unlike plenty who have just walked away when rejected or just beaten. I think that there are plenty better examples out there to hang up anyway - for their sins or for being just bang average. But liking IDS isn't exactly a popular pursuit so it's probably just me! | | | |
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