| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... 13:58 - May 9 with 114939 views | hubble |
..posted by a good friend of mine on Facebook, thought I'd share it on here. He's a former professional footballer (briefly for Birmingham City) and a former copper, working mainly out of Camden police station. He grew up in Kilburn/Queens Park. He's now a writer (among other things).
Worth a read I think, hope you enjoy, whether you agree with him or not, even when he veers off-topic...
"Thoughts of the Week (part 1)
Let’s start with a subheading. ‘Dear, oh dear Diane Abbot!’
In the upcoming General Election campaign and apart from the ‘Leader’ (no, not Gary Glitter) no one is more important for the Labour Party campaign than the Shadow Home Secretary. Why’s this? You ask.
The reason is obvious: Theresa May —the strong woman, Ms subtle, but steely - was the former Home Secretary. A position which she used to inflict near terminal ravages of the nation’s police forces. Under her auspices we saw numbers cut, benefits cut and police stations closed willy-nilly to cash in, short-term, on the booming (especially in London) property market.
The short-sightedness of this policy is astounding. No matter the so-called austerity budget (which only seems to apply to the working classes, while the privileged elite continue to live the life of Riley) the question must be asked as to what will happen when there’s some serious social unrest — and you can feel it stirring. Remember 2011 when the riots broke out? We had anarchy and nihilism on the streets and the police force didn’t cope with it at all. Instead we had a grand mopping up campaign. Suddenly all those poor silly students who had been demonised as hard-core criminals after they smashed the windows of the Tory HQ — and received ridiculously harsh prison sentences for what were in the main first offences - were kicked out of the pokey and replaced by the new batch of rioters. The Criminal Justice system ground to a halt, the prison’s overflowed. The courts were as ram-jam packed as a back-in-the-day David Rodigan dance. In response what did the great Theresa May do? She further decimated the police force. She did the same to the prison service. The vaunted Border Force, our first defence, is comically short of manpower and morale as they attempt to hire staff on Mickey-Mouse contracts. Labour should be slaughtering Theresa May on what she’s done. Instead we got that car crash of an interview on LBC.
To be honest I resisted calls to listen to it for a time. Some of my more right-leaning pals were raving about it, but I thought they were overreacting due to a general contempt for the Hackney MP. I was wrong. When I actually got round to listening to it I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. It was stunningly incompetent, mind-blowingly nonsensical, embarrassing and shocking. Is this the Shadow Home Secretary who’s going to lead the challenge to Theresa May’s record? She should have stood down immediately and if not the great leader should have forced her hand, no matter past rendezvous in the sack. Of course it didn’t happen and Labour under Jeremy Corbyn has no hope in this election. What a shame it all is because there are loads of issues that they should be taking the government to task on. Just look at that bumbling Tommy Cooper impersonator of a Foreign Secretary, a million miles removed from a serious statesman: Mr Retraction — an embarrassment to the nation.
I’m voting Labour in the coming election, but not for Jeremy, more for the thought of the millions of people who are going to suffer under the coming five years of Tory rule: the working men and women who haven’t seen their wages rise, in real terms, for the last thirty years, while the fat cats, sharks and speculators are minted; the students starting out life saddled with debt; the millions who’ll never be able to afford a home; and in honour of the National Health Service, soon to be dismantled further, but remaining the brightest light in the nation’s modern history. What a rotten, unfair and unbalanced society we’ve become.
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:08 - May 29 with 2330 views | DWQPR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:38 - May 29 by DannytheR |
I'm sure there's a word for someone who loves to dish it out but then proves unable to take it.
You need to toughen up, snowflake. If your main form of communication is playing the internet hard man posting long sweary rants accusing anyone who doesn't vote Tory of being a terrorist sympathiser or simply thick, you might get the odd bit of blowback. Especially when you start publicly piping up about how life was better for black south Africans under apartheid.
The challenges you've described facing the NHS are exactly that - challenges. They're not pretexts to sell the lot to American private healthcare.
Your party have been hostile to the health service for years, and it's dishonest to pretend otherwise. If you know your political history you'll remember there was a bit of a scandal in 1982 when it was revealed that Thatcher was planning to dismantle the NHS and introduce compulsory private health insurance. She then had to climb down and say the NHS was "safe in our hands," which helped make the issue untouchable for a generation, much to the upset of many right wing Tories.
As you like a link: https://www.ft.com/content/5d990686-4dc8-11e2-a0fc-00144feab49a
As you can see there were also plans to extend the reach of private schools and strip out state education. Would be interested to know what you think the "problem" is with state schools now, given the scale of the cuts they're receiving?
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/may/27/pupils-clean-classrooms-tory-f
So now we've got primary school kids cleaning their own classrooms. Maybe soon they'll go the whole hog and send them back up the chimneys? [Post edited 29 May 2017 10:40]
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I think that there is hard enough to evidence around to suggest that Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell are or have been in the past terrorist sympathisers. Just watch Abbott's interview with Brillo yesterday. With regards to my earlier post with regards to friends of mine who under apartheid were classified as cape coloureds and who suffered under apartheid with a forced removal from their own home, I stated what they have told me on many occasions and they despair on what is happening to their country now. At no point in my post can I find that I advocated that apartheid is a good thing, I stated what I was told from first hand experience. You, my friend, have just tried to twist words for your own benefit for which in my book makes you a devious little cûnt. |  |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:28 - May 29 with 2298 views | DannytheR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:08 - May 29 by DWQPR |
I think that there is hard enough to evidence around to suggest that Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell are or have been in the past terrorist sympathisers. Just watch Abbott's interview with Brillo yesterday. With regards to my earlier post with regards to friends of mine who under apartheid were classified as cape coloureds and who suffered under apartheid with a forced removal from their own home, I stated what they have told me on many occasions and they despair on what is happening to their country now. At no point in my post can I find that I advocated that apartheid is a good thing, I stated what I was told from first hand experience. You, my friend, have just tried to twist words for your own benefit for which in my book makes you a devious little cûnt. |
What you said was "corruption and human rights abuses going on in South Africa now are far worse than it ever was under apartheid."
If that's not saying South Africa was better then than now, we're clearly not speaking the same language. You puffed-up prick. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:36 - May 29 with 2280 views | MrSheen |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:24 - May 29 by ElHoop |
Those marginal rates of tax are way out - there are so many little thresholds and massive marginal rates applying to people who are unaware of their situation. No major party talks about it because either they are responsible for it or they want to make it even worse.
Here's a Telegraph chart from 2015 - it's not that much different now:
 [Post edited 29 May 2017 10:32]
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Harsh, they're not way out. I didn't put child benefit and pensions in because they don't apply to everyone, though I lost my child benefit entitlement and I'm getting close to the pension ceiling. i think they've got the hump from £100-123,000 wrong, you lose a pound of basic rate relief for every two pounds you earn, so your marginal rate is 10% higher, not 20%. Yes, that one gets me too. All three down to George Osborne. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:55 - May 29 with 2246 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 23:15 - May 28 by DWQPR |
Hopefully enjoy we're not accusing me of that 1BH. Thought you would like a link to a BBC report regarding Jacob Zuma
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-40075356
Of course the Beeb would much love to see the return of apartheid, as much as no one else on this thread has. |
DW, you may disagree with me on many things but you know I'm not a f*cking idiot. So please don't try and pretend that your initial post about South Africa was anything other than an attempt to defend to some degree Fallon's thougts that apartheid was a good thing. What possible other reason would you have to suddenly post that information?
Just for the record I can assure you I know more about South Africa's current corruption problems than you, I studied there in the 90s, worked there in the noughties and have a lot South African friends including one who moved back quite recently and is hoping to move back into politics because she is so moved by the current situation.
But how does South Africa being corrupt (like so many other countries) make Fallon right about apartheid? How can anything be more corrupt than a system that was basically slavery over the majority of the population held in place by violence, brutality torture, murder and just plain old evil. You say there are more human rights abuses now, how can there be? That was a system that was an institutional human rights abuse on a permanent and made legal basis. It doesn't get any worse than that. What sort of legacy do you think such an evil way of existing was going to leave anyway? What chance in just one generation that South Africans could turn themselves around after so many decades of the boot on their throat, the stick on their back and the shackles on their wrists?
And I have to say that your further post last night desperately linking the BBC report and this morning's 'thoughts' just highlight, for me, how actually devoid of true understanding, ideas, intelligence and wisdom you are when it comes to society and humanity's requirements for real positive change and a chance to live in a better world. The limits of your narrow and often violent perspective become painfully obvious.
Despite my harsh words I know you're a decent man, but I do think you could do with a bit of consciousness expanding sometimes and perhaps not being quite so sure that all the answers come from your rather narrow world view.
Peace (even though it might not seem so!) x |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 12:01 - May 29 with 2229 views | ElHoop |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:36 - May 29 by MrSheen |
Harsh, they're not way out. I didn't put child benefit and pensions in because they don't apply to everyone, though I lost my child benefit entitlement and I'm getting close to the pension ceiling. i think they've got the hump from £100-123,000 wrong, you lose a pound of basic rate relief for every two pounds you earn, so your marginal rate is 10% higher, not 20%. Yes, that one gets me too. All three down to George Osborne. |
Well it's what I do, so for me it's way out, harsh as it may seem. You are wrong about the personal allowance though. If you earn £100k and they pay you an extra 1k then you'll pay £400 more in tax. At the same time you lose £500 of your personal allowance - also charged at 40% so that's £600 plus the nobbers NI surcharge of 2%. Labour will be increasing this marginal rate to about 69.5% by my reckoning.
I would rather keep universal benefits and allowances and preferably do something about incomes generally, or failing that lump it on higher rates at over £123K but give everyone the full allowances and benefits. The marginal rates for child benefit clawback are also a joke. It's no good moralising about tax avoidance and then shutting up about what amounts to daylight robbery. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 12:45 - May 29 with 2180 views | MrSheen |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 12:01 - May 29 by ElHoop |
Well it's what I do, so for me it's way out, harsh as it may seem. You are wrong about the personal allowance though. If you earn £100k and they pay you an extra 1k then you'll pay £400 more in tax. At the same time you lose £500 of your personal allowance - also charged at 40% so that's £600 plus the nobbers NI surcharge of 2%. Labour will be increasing this marginal rate to about 69.5% by my reckoning.
I would rather keep universal benefits and allowances and preferably do something about incomes generally, or failing that lump it on higher rates at over £123K but give everyone the full allowances and benefits. The marginal rates for child benefit clawback are also a joke. It's no good moralising about tax avoidance and then shutting up about what amounts to daylight robbery. |
Fair enough, I thought the allowance was removed at the basic rate rather than the higher rate. That rate will be 45% under Labour, not 40%. The point stands that Swedes are taxed highly at flatter rates over all incomes, rather than loading it on higher tax payers, though I don't know if benefits and benefits-in-kind (e.g. childcare places) are means-tested and thus withdrawn from higher earners or universal. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:39 - May 29 with 2106 views | stowmarketrange |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:08 - May 29 by DWQPR |
I think that there is hard enough to evidence around to suggest that Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell are or have been in the past terrorist sympathisers. Just watch Abbott's interview with Brillo yesterday. With regards to my earlier post with regards to friends of mine who under apartheid were classified as cape coloureds and who suffered under apartheid with a forced removal from their own home, I stated what they have told me on many occasions and they despair on what is happening to their country now. At no point in my post can I find that I advocated that apartheid is a good thing, I stated what I was told from first hand experience. You, my friend, have just tried to twist words for your own benefit for which in my book makes you a devious little cûnt. |
Ever since Corbyn made his speech last week that is what every Tory mp has been doing with his words.They've twisted them into what they wanted to hear.But that's ok because it's only the tories doing it. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:47 - May 29 with 2097 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:39 - May 29 by stowmarketrange |
Ever since Corbyn made his speech last week that is what every Tory mp has been doing with his words.They've twisted them into what they wanted to hear.But that's ok because it's only the tories doing it. |
The whole campaign they have only attacked JC.
The only thing they have put forward blow up in their faces and they backtracked, well not even that, if they win they will push it though as it's still what they will do, all this talk about a cap is rubbish.
They still see this as a presidential election |  |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 15:22 - May 29 with 2058 views | Dorse |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:47 - May 29 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
The whole campaign they have only attacked JC.
The only thing they have put forward blow up in their faces and they backtracked, well not even that, if they win they will push it though as it's still what they will do, all this talk about a cap is rubbish.
They still see this as a presidential election |
They've attacked Jesus now? Unbelievable. The depth of their depravity knows no bounds. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 15:34 - May 29 with 2029 views | TGRRRSSS |
The thing with South Africa is not really anything to do with Apartheid itself, it's to do with the breakdown of infrastructure and lack of investment in anything where the money is simply disappearing ( hence the corruption), crime is rampant and health care is failing, Aids is widespread amongst the poorest and poverty is getting worse for the MAJORITY.
IN short it's a failing state on it's way to the bottom.
See my earlier comments from Bryan Habana. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 15:55 - May 29 with 2004 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 15:34 - May 29 by TGRRRSSS |
The thing with South Africa is not really anything to do with Apartheid itself, it's to do with the breakdown of infrastructure and lack of investment in anything where the money is simply disappearing ( hence the corruption), crime is rampant and health care is failing, Aids is widespread amongst the poorest and poverty is getting worse for the MAJORITY.
IN short it's a failing state on it's way to the bottom.
See my earlier comments from Bryan Habana. |
Some would say a country operating a violent, brutal and murderous regime of slavery of the majority by an ethnic minority who see it as their right to subjugate their inferiors in order to use their labour and resources to enrich themselves was already at the bottom.
As I've stated earlier South Africa, like many other countries, has some desperate problems at the moment. But people trying to use that fact to defend soulless Fallon's support of apartheid is a f*cking abysmal reflection of their intelligence, insight, wisdom and integrity. [Post edited 29 May 2017 15:56]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 15:59 - May 29 with 1990 views | TGRRRSSS |
My comments were nothing to do with Apartheid but about the fact that South Africa and it's infrastructure which has suffered years of little or no investment is now becoming a failed state. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:05 - May 29 with 1978 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 15:59 - May 29 by TGRRRSSS |
My comments were nothing to do with Apartheid but about the fact that South Africa and it's infrastructure which has suffered years of little or no investment is now becoming a failed state. |
So what were the reasons, relevance and context of putting those comments in this thread? | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:07 - May 29 with 1964 views | TGRRRSSS |
Beucase others had earlier on in this thread brought up South Africa. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:11 - May 29 with 1963 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:07 - May 29 by TGRRRSSS |
Beucase others had earlier on in this thread brought up South Africa. |
And what did they bring up? | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:15 - May 29 with 1947 views | TGRRRSSS |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:40 - May 28 by DWQPR |
I have a couple of South African friends, cape coloureds, and they still have their families in South Africa, they have told me on more than a few ocassions that the corruption and human rights abuses going on in South Africa now are far worse than ever it was under apartheid. The ANC has badly failed its own people and things are getting steadily worse. The general populace is starting to turn and they very much fear a second Zimbabwe.
On another note how anybody can 'enjoy' Emily 'White Van' Thornberry in any shape must need a labotomy. |
This was where I saw SA being brought into it properly. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:20 - May 29 with 1937 views | 1BobbyHazell |
No one is arguing about the state of South Africa. If you had started a thread saying South Africa is in a bit of a state, no one would have argued with you, I would even have joined in with my usual long post to add to the whole affair agreeing with you. But that is not what happened here. Someone posted about Fallon's vocal support of apartheid and then you and another poster came up with evidence to support it. That is what happened and if you feel the need to try and wriggle your way out of it now then I suppose that's a sign that at least you've got some levels of intelligence and some form of conscience. I'll end it here because I'm really not looking for a witch hunt, you know what you did and so will everyone else who read the thread. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:21 - May 29 with 1936 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 15:22 - May 29 by Dorse |
They've attacked Jesus now? Unbelievable. The depth of their depravity knows no bounds. |
Exactly! | |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:32 - May 29 with 1907 views | TGRRRSSS |
No I didnt, I have no interest in what Fallon said, you simply assume what I said was I was supporting either what Fallon said or supporting Apartheid. Neither is true.
I have discussed to some degree South Africa with South Africans I have come across (who now yes live here in the UK.
Most discuss how the system there is falling apart road infrasturcture is one such example.
I had recently read some stuff regarding Bryan Habana and why he (and many others) in rugby were leaving South Africa, he explains that it isn't just relating to earning more money in Europe( in rugby) but there were for him other considerations and crime is one he used, and felt his children would have a better future outside of South Africa.
I have then copied and pasted an article from Habana and his interview. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 19:49 - May 29 with 1834 views | JamesB1979 |
Is anyone who has posted on this actually undecided (even before the election) kicked off? Just seems to be posts back and forth between labour and Tories. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:02 - May 29 with 1810 views | johncharles |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:08 - May 29 by DWQPR |
I think that there is hard enough to evidence around to suggest that Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell are or have been in the past terrorist sympathisers. Just watch Abbott's interview with Brillo yesterday. With regards to my earlier post with regards to friends of mine who under apartheid were classified as cape coloureds and who suffered under apartheid with a forced removal from their own home, I stated what they have told me on many occasions and they despair on what is happening to their country now. At no point in my post can I find that I advocated that apartheid is a good thing, I stated what I was told from first hand experience. You, my friend, have just tried to twist words for your own benefit for which in my book makes you a devious little cûnt. |
So calling everyone, Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell, Danny the ranger and even Nelson Mandela a cvnt is your answer to the problems in our education system.
A novel approach. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:11 - May 29 with 1789 views | JamesB1979 |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:02 - May 29 by johncharles |
So calling everyone, Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell, Danny the ranger and even Nelson Mandela a cvnt is your answer to the problems in our education system.
A novel approach. |
In fairness, that seems to have been the approach the other way too. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 00:07 - May 31 with 1588 views | FDC |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 15:35 - May 22 by FDC |
They've always used weighting to account for young people not turning up etc, so presumably they've looked at the difference between polling and actual votes and adjusted their polls accordingly. |
Here's some recent polls before and after weighting. Makes a big difference! If the yoot turn out in bigger numbers than the weighting predicts it could make a big difference
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:37 - May 31 with 1500 views | Watford_Ranger |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 19:49 - May 29 by JamesB1979 |
Is anyone who has posted on this actually undecided (even before the election) kicked off? Just seems to be posts back and forth between labour and Tories. |
Apart from not voting Tory I still don't know. All rather pointless given FPTP but I still like to vote even if I just spoil it or vote Green. | | | |
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