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Parking Eye Ltd are trying to fine us. But before Christmas when parking at Morrisons all the payment machines had notes saying that they are not working. But at the start of the new year we had the first letter with a fine. Which I have ignored and will not pay. We parked for 3hrs .14 mins after shopping in Neath but also doing our Morrisons shop and having a meal there. Has anyone else had this problem
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Parking at Morrisons Neath on 19:45 - Feb 20 with 10598 views
The contract would be for the time you parked, which you have accepted and paid for.The contract would expire after this time. Any time over that and they can sue for loss of revenue , which would be for the time your overspent, probably the next hour or so. A penalty of £100 would not be enforceable, and any judge who enforces that would be acting unlawfully and outside of his or her jurisdiction - they know this too, whether they choose to do this is up to them at the time, but if it was challenged on these grounds then no case would happen
The contract is for the time you park there having accepted their parking charges by parking. It doesn't expire after you cease to pay.
In all of these cases it's easy to prove breach of contract for the companies. The problem that the companies have, however, is that they then need to prove financial loss as a result of the breach. In free car parks (park free for 2 hours while you shop) type stuff, they can never prove financial loss (as the person whose space you are conceivably taking up would pay nothing to park there anyway). In a pay and display, the maximum possible loss for them is the fee you would have paid to park for the extra time. They then claim administration fees on top of that (which is allowed if reasonable). A court would likely find it unreasonable however if a company claimed that they had incurred say £100 in administration (letters etc) in order to retrieve a £2 parking charge.
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Parking at Morrisons Neath on 19:57 - Feb 20 with 10557 views
Right lets cut through the enormous amount of crap on this thread (like many PS threads to be honest)
It is not a fine, it is an invoice for breach of contract.
Parking eye say you entered into a contract when you parked your car and read their signs.
That's one reason they need planning permission for their signs. If they don't have it- bring this up with the store manager- its a criminal offence.
Breach of contract can be sued for through the small claims court.
There is a bulk processing centre in Northampton to process all these claims from parking companies, because there are thousands of claims a year.
some parking companies hope the letters will scare people into paying, but wont take you to court. Some parking companies will and do take people to court and will enforce ccj's. Parking eye are the most litigious of all the parking companies. Thousands of people have default ccj's , because they followed "advice" to ignore it.
Parking eye are acting on behalf of the landowner - Morrison's, If Morrison's tell them to cancel the charge, they must cancel it.
That is why your best course of action is to kick up a fuss with Morrison's.
You can ignore if you wish, and Parking Lie may decide not to proceed further, but their whole system is automated, and they will go through the process. They rely on people either getting scared and paying up, or ignoring and getting default ccjs which they then sell on to debt collection companies.
Morrisons will receive hundreds if not thousands of complaints about parking eye on a regular basis, and they will have a specific contact email address at parking eye to cancel your charge. My guess is that the store manager sends many such emails every week. particularly if at a busy time of year such as xmas the machines were not working.
look up the case of Parking eye v Beavis. it went to the supreme court.
Parking at Morrisons Neath on 19:45 - Feb 20 by londonlisa2001
The contract is for the time you park there having accepted their parking charges by parking. It doesn't expire after you cease to pay.
In all of these cases it's easy to prove breach of contract for the companies. The problem that the companies have, however, is that they then need to prove financial loss as a result of the breach. In free car parks (park free for 2 hours while you shop) type stuff, they can never prove financial loss (as the person whose space you are conceivably taking up would pay nothing to park there anyway). In a pay and display, the maximum possible loss for them is the fee you would have paid to park for the extra time. They then claim administration fees on top of that (which is allowed if reasonable). A court would likely find it unreasonable however if a company claimed that they had incurred say £100 in administration (letters etc) in order to retrieve a £2 parking charge.
This is how one guy dealt with it,worth a look
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Parking at Morrisons Neath on 19:58 - Feb 20 with 10551 views
Parking at Morrisons Neath on 19:45 - Feb 20 by londonlisa2001
The contract is for the time you park there having accepted their parking charges by parking. It doesn't expire after you cease to pay.
In all of these cases it's easy to prove breach of contract for the companies. The problem that the companies have, however, is that they then need to prove financial loss as a result of the breach. In free car parks (park free for 2 hours while you shop) type stuff, they can never prove financial loss (as the person whose space you are conceivably taking up would pay nothing to park there anyway). In a pay and display, the maximum possible loss for them is the fee you would have paid to park for the extra time. They then claim administration fees on top of that (which is allowed if reasonable). A court would likely find it unreasonable however if a company claimed that they had incurred say £100 in administration (letters etc) in order to retrieve a £2 parking charge.
The penalty notice is for a penalty charge, nothing is stated about admin charges and they would have to justify those charges with an invoice, which they won't be able to do.I can put up a sign in my front drive, saying," anyone who comes to my front door without a prior appointment will be liable to a fine" I doubt that would be enforceable. Like wise selling a car as seen, If the car doesn't run when you get it home or blows up then that sign is worthless.
The parking firms are greedy intimidating b"stards and it should be made illegal, just like clamping on private land has been, and we need to make it as difficult as possible for them to get a penny from us.
I try never to get a ticket, I don't overstay my visit and I never use council car parks so they won't get a penny from me
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Parking at Morrisons Neath on 20:14 - Feb 20 with 10507 views
The payment meters in Morrisons are solar powered - that's why they're are down all the time (Morrisons employee told me). The car park is monitiored by an ANPR camera on entry and exit. If you stay beyond 2.5 hours then you recieve a fine.
This is clearly stated before you enter the car park. If you have overstayed and received an "invoice" then it's for a breaking the terms of the contract you entered into by parking there.
You can go to the little desk to the left of the Kiosk in Morrison and complain - you will need the parkingeye letter and your Morrision receipt - but unless you really kick up a fuss, they will say you have to pay.
Best you pay the "invoice" or risk being taken to Small Claims Court.
FYI - even if the payment meters are working - it's all done via the camera as there is no-one coming around the car park checking to see if you have paid and displayed.
I am a former Safeway employee and friends who still work there confimed the above.
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Parking at Morrisons Neath on 20:18 - Feb 20 with 10489 views
The penalty notice is for a penalty charge, nothing is stated about admin charges and they would have to justify those charges with an invoice, which they won't be able to do.I can put up a sign in my front drive, saying," anyone who comes to my front door without a prior appointment will be liable to a fine" I doubt that would be enforceable. Like wise selling a car as seen, If the car doesn't run when you get it home or blows up then that sign is worthless.
The parking firms are greedy intimidating b"stards and it should be made illegal, just like clamping on private land has been, and we need to make it as difficult as possible for them to get a penny from us.
I try never to get a ticket, I don't overstay my visit and I never use council car parks so they won't get a penny from me
I'm not disputing that they are greedy intimidating b*stards because they are, absolutely, and I would rather stick rusty pins in my eyes rather than pay them a penny, but I was just telling you what law they are using.
In order for a contract to be enforceable, there has to be a benefit on both sides (consideration) - if you put a sign on your door saying you were going to fine somebody, it wouldn't be an enforceable contract as there wouldn't be an offer to contract, and an acceptance of that offer and the consideration wouldn't exist on both sides.
When they say 'park here at 2 quid an hour' that's an offer to contract. By parking there, you accept the offer, if you then don't pay it, it is a breach of the contract you've willingly entered into. If part of that offer that you've accepted is a penalty after a certain amount of time, that is strictly enforceable, but if you didn't pay it, again, they would have to demonstrate financial loss, which they find hard to do,
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Parking at Morrisons Neath on 20:32 - Feb 20 with 10427 views
They wouldn't have to demonstrate financial loss. If you read the Supreme Court ruling...
"..The broader test the Court propounded lies in the context of commercial justification for clauses that might otherwise be regarded as penal — is there some other reason which justifies the discrepancy between the amount payable under the clause and the amount payable by way of damages at common law?
“A damages clause may properly be justified by some other consideration than the desire to recover compensation for a breach.” (para. 28).
The principle engages broader social and economic considerations, one of which is that the law will not generally make a remedy available to a party whose adverse impact on the defaulter significantly exceeds any legitimate interest of the innocent party.
The true test, the Court held at para. 32, is whether:
“the impugned provision is a secondary obligation which imposes a detriment on the contract breaker out of all proportion to any legitimate interests of the innocent party in the enforcement of the primary obligation”.
Applying these principles to Mr Beavis’s case, they decided that whilst the penalty rule was engaged, the £85 charge was not a penalty since ParkingEye had a legitimate interest in charging overstaying motorists which extended beyond the recovery of any loss. The company was managing car parks in the interests of the retail outlets, their customers and the public at large and had a legitimate interest in influencing the conduct of the contracting party which is not satisfied by the mere right to recover damages for breach of contract. ParkingEye could not charge a sum out of all proportion to its interests but there was no reason to suppose that £85 was out of all proportion. There was no suggestion about what an unreasonable charge might be.
Lord Mance, at para. 198 of his judgment acknowledged that the charge had a deterrent effect but concluded that it has to be and was set at a level which enables managers to recover the cost of operating the scheme. It is hence commercially justifiable."
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Parking at Morrisons Neath on 20:37 - Feb 20 with 10406 views
Parking at Morrisons Neath on 20:14 - Feb 20 by JC55DUB
The payment meters in Morrisons are solar powered - that's why they're are down all the time (Morrisons employee told me). The car park is monitiored by an ANPR camera on entry and exit. If you stay beyond 2.5 hours then you recieve a fine.
This is clearly stated before you enter the car park. If you have overstayed and received an "invoice" then it's for a breaking the terms of the contract you entered into by parking there.
You can go to the little desk to the left of the Kiosk in Morrison and complain - you will need the parkingeye letter and your Morrision receipt - but unless you really kick up a fuss, they will say you have to pay.
Best you pay the "invoice" or risk being taken to Small Claims Court.
FYI - even if the payment meters are working - it's all done via the camera as there is no-one coming around the car park checking to see if you have paid and displayed.
I am a former Safeway employee and friends who still work there confimed the above.
So who was the old bastard I wan ked off....I mean bought a cup of tea for then?
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Parking at Morrisons Neath on 20:48 - Feb 20 by exiledclaseboy
The evidence is that you parked in the car park, thus tacitly accepting the terms and conditions displayed on the sign and entering into the contract.
Yes, you have, but the point is that the penalty has nothing to do with loss or revenue and therefore is not applicable as it's a civil dispute over payment
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Parking at Morrisons Neath on 21:41 - Feb 20 with 10242 views
Parking at Morrisons Neath on 20:48 - Feb 20 by exiledclaseboy
The evidence is that you parked in the car park, thus tacitly accepting the terms and conditions displayed on the sign and entering into the contract.
Isn't that a rather big assumption that the driver has actually stopped to read the signs though? I tend to concentrate on the road when I'm driving. Reading long winded signs with terms and conditions is irresponsible.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Parking at Morrisons Neath on 22:05 - Feb 20 by Highjack
Isn't that a rather big assumption that the driver has actually stopped to read the signs though? I tend to concentrate on the road when I'm driving. Reading long winded signs with terms and conditions is irresponsible.
The best advice for the op, is when seeking legal or consumer advice don't ask for it on planet swans. As too many posters clearly don't have a clue ( particularly in relation to contract law) and make it up as they go along.
There is good and factual advice on here, unfortunately there is also a,lot of bullocks.
Parking at Morrisons Neath on 22:17 - Feb 20 by sherpajacob
The best advice for the op, is when seeking legal or consumer advice don't ask for it on planet swans. As too many posters clearly don't have a clue ( particularly in relation to contract law) and make it up as they go along.
There is good and factual advice on here, unfortunately there is also a,lot of bullocks.
Take your pick.
The best advice is the one that says ignore it.
‘……. like a moth to Itchy’s flame ……’
Parking eye have issued over 60,000 claims since 2013. If you ignore you may get a default ccj.
I know they issued one against me, I beat them in court eventually, but it would never have got that far if I hadn't listened to morons on internet forums saying ignore it.
On my day in court there were 5 other parking company cases being heard.
Don't pay, but don't ignore
But don't let facts get in the way of people giving crap advice.
Parking eye have issued over 60,000 claims since 2013. If you ignore you may get a default ccj.
I know they issued one against me, I beat them in court eventually, but it would never have got that far if I hadn't listened to morons on internet forums saying ignore it.
On my day in court there were 5 other parking company cases being heard.
Don't pay, but don't ignore
But don't let facts get in the way of people giving crap advice.
Would you get notification of a ccj against you?
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Parking at Morrisons Neath on 06:56 - Feb 21 with 10003 views
My in-laws used to shop at the Park Morfa Morrisons.
Elderly, both of them painfully slow on their feet. They'd shop then go to the cafe.
One day they got a ticket for exceeding the parking limit. Morrisons agreed to cancel it but my in-laws were rattled by it and never went back. Nice one, Morrisons.
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Parking at Morrisons Neath on 09:01 - Feb 21 with 9964 views
Parking at Morrisons Neath on 01:06 - Feb 21 by Treforys_Jack
Would you get notification of a ccj against you?
You would get a dodgy looking notice from the Northampton county business court, which others on here have said is a scam.
It isn't it's a bulk processing centre for the thousands of claims issued every year.
My post at 17:49 explains the course of events.
However, if you wait until papers arrive from Northampton it's entirely possible any court will take a dim view of you ignoring all previous correspondence and side with parking lie.
Parking lie will quite happily fabricate evidence to present to the court.
So the best course of action is to get Morrison's to cancel it.
Parking at Morrisons Neath on 09:01 - Feb 21 by sherpajacob
You would get a dodgy looking notice from the Northampton county business court, which others on here have said is a scam.
It isn't it's a bulk processing centre for the thousands of claims issued every year.
My post at 17:49 explains the course of events.
However, if you wait until papers arrive from Northampton it's entirely possible any court will take a dim view of you ignoring all previous correspondence and side with parking lie.
Parking lie will quite happily fabricate evidence to present to the court.
So the best course of action is to get Morrison's to cancel it.
[Post edited 21 Feb 2017 9:09]
I think you're fighting a losing battle with your facts and first hand knowledge here Sherps.
Parking at Morrisons Neath on 09:01 - Feb 21 by sherpajacob
You would get a dodgy looking notice from the Northampton county business court, which others on here have said is a scam.
It isn't it's a bulk processing centre for the thousands of claims issued every year.
My post at 17:49 explains the course of events.
However, if you wait until papers arrive from Northampton it's entirely possible any court will take a dim view of you ignoring all previous correspondence and side with parking lie.
Parking lie will quite happily fabricate evidence to present to the court.
So the best course of action is to get Morrison's to cancel it.
[Post edited 21 Feb 2017 9:09]
The bulk processing centre is indeed a scam. It's not a court as there is no legally trained personnel there. It's an administrative centre not a court. The actual county court of Northampton will have no record of any such claims and no court procedures are followed.
It can't go to county court because no contract is involved. It's an administrative court, which is actually unlawful in this country. Any summons will not be signed by a judge or magistrate and you will not be able to attend the hearing, because there won't be one, just a rubber stamping exercise. It's actually fraud on a huge scale
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Parking at Morrisons Neath on 09:38 - Feb 21 with 9922 views
The bulk processing centre is indeed a scam. It's not a court as there is no legally trained personnel there. It's an administrative centre not a court. The actual county court of Northampton will have no record of any such claims and no court procedures are followed.
It can't go to county court because no contract is involved. It's an administrative court, which is actually unlawful in this country. Any summons will not be signed by a judge or magistrate and you will not be able to attend the hearing, because there won't be one, just a rubber stamping exercise. It's actually fraud on a huge scale
Now for the best advice so far: Leave the bleeding car park before 2.5 hours are up and get a life!
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Parking at Morrisons Neath on 09:41 - Feb 21 with 9913 views
The bulk processing centre is indeed a scam. It's not a court as there is no legally trained personnel there. It's an administrative centre not a court. The actual county court of Northampton will have no record of any such claims and no court procedures are followed.
It can't go to county court because no contract is involved. It's an administrative court, which is actually unlawful in this country. Any summons will not be signed by a judge or magistrate and you will not be able to attend the hearing, because there won't be one, just a rubber stamping exercise. It's actually fraud on a huge scale
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