| Half season tickets - 525 sold 14:51 - Feb 5 with 8255 views | RAFCBLUE |
http://mobile.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/update-half-season-tickets-
Credit to the club for publishing the figure which by my conservative estimate is 50% of season current ticket holders (I'm working on the basis we have 1,000 ST holders before the exercise).
What I can't tell is how many didn't renew in the Summer - but I think it proves affordability is a big consideration for our fan base. |  |
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| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 14:01 - Feb 8 with 1742 views | Mattbdale |
Maybe one way to go about a discounted season ticket problems is to have a heavily discounted season ticket of say £150 Sandy £175 Pearl £200 Main as an early bird up to end of July. Im sure the ealy bird schme worked reasonably well a few years ago.
After that ticket revert to normal prices. I would definitely keep the £100 2nd half of season ticket going forward |  |
| Up the Dale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 14:10 - Feb 8 with 1732 views | dingdangblue |
| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 14:01 - Feb 8 by Mattbdale |
Maybe one way to go about a discounted season ticket problems is to have a heavily discounted season ticket of say £150 Sandy £175 Pearl £200 Main as an early bird up to end of July. Im sure the ealy bird schme worked reasonably well a few years ago.
After that ticket revert to normal prices. I would definitely keep the £100 2nd half of season ticket going forward |
I don't think early bird is end of July - the season starts August 
Previously I think it's been 1st week of June cut off. |  |
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| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 15:45 - Feb 8 with 1661 views | DaleiLama |
| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 17:19 - Feb 7 by KenBoon |
The club have sold 525 half-season tickets but there's nowhere near 525 extra people attending. To me it feels like the majority of half-season tickets have been bought by folk who'd probably attend most of the matches anyway. If the purpose of this was to see if an amazing deal (on the back of one of the best winning streaks in our history) could attract several hundred new or floating fans, then it's probably been a bit of a let down.
Now the club could slash season ticket prices for next season but if it doesn't raise regular attendances to 4000+ home fans then it could realistically only be a one season deal, and we need ticket pricing for the long term rather than a short term sale.
Next seasons ticket prices is probably one of the biggest decisions the club will have made in recent years. £200 for an adult is a decent price but this is a poor town and it's still too much as a one-off payment to get new folk into the ground. Taking out finance for season tickets also shouldn't be encouraged. Maybe the club should be looking more towards selling blocks of tickets rather than season tickets because unless you're charging £150 you're not going to get many impulse buyers. Whatever the club do they need to really invest in marketing. Proper marketing too.
If you don't understand basics like charging more for a product people want (standing at Football) then you shouldn't even bother thinking up a response. |
I think there is much merit in a lot of what you say Ken.
Did any posters buy a full ST close to the start of the season or the deadline which I think came fairly close after? Just curious to hear the number in their book?
Based on the numbering of mine, on a broad brush assumption we sold 1500+ full STs (including under 11s which were >250 in June according to a report I read) and 525 half STs @ £100. If you then assume that the 525+ half STs are split roughly 50:50 between "semi-regulars" who would have gone to some/all games anyway and "lapsed fans" who might have gone rarely or not at all, then the take up is not overwhelming at this price point, i.e. ~260 extra attendees at the equivalent of a £200/full ST price.
This is a good result and reverses some of the previous attrition caused by "mis-leading-announcement-gate" last season when prices weren't increasing but did. It also addresses some of the general pricing/affordability issues for some, but it is not a game-changer.
I noticed Utd announced the other day that season tickets had been frozen for 2017-2018. I wonder when the Dale powers that be will show their hand?
I guess RAFC will have an analysis of numbers of STs, half STs and p-o-t-d for each stand from ticket stubs and an analysis of takings from various non-ticket revenue streams for each location in the ground to compare it to. And Russ will of course have his Hartlepool experience to draw on.
My last guess in this post is that £200, whilst eminently affordable and, imho, a fair price is simply too expensive to make a big difference. Unless the price is pitched in the £100-150 range, current evidence suggests that there isn't going to be a hugely significant increase in numbers. My thinking is that we need a "can't resist it" price if we want to try to make a step-change in attendances. After that season, the club can analyse takings from a bigger sample size again and see how boosting attendances affects profitability with all revenues taken into account.
The club now has the money. It also has the goodwill of most fans. I don't see a massive backlash if a really low-priced ST doesn't work out and the club explains why, says it was an unsustainable model and has to revert to something more like the original pricing, hopefully in a stepwise fashion.
And last but not least, proper marketing as Ken again pointed out. It has to be screamed and shouted from every outlet possible. I read that businesses in the 'pool area were giving STs away as prizes, companies were giving them to employees as rewards, etc, etc. I'm sure RG learned a good few tricks last time around. It would be fantastic if this happened in terms of the buzz it would create and help to lift the team. Promises to be an interesting next 4-5 months both on and off the pitch. [Post edited 8 Feb 2017 16:00]
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| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 16:00 - Feb 8 with 1633 views | 442Dale |
| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 15:45 - Feb 8 by DaleiLama |
I think there is much merit in a lot of what you say Ken.
Did any posters buy a full ST close to the start of the season or the deadline which I think came fairly close after? Just curious to hear the number in their book?
Based on the numbering of mine, on a broad brush assumption we sold 1500+ full STs (including under 11s which were >250 in June according to a report I read) and 525 half STs @ £100. If you then assume that the 525+ half STs are split roughly 50:50 between "semi-regulars" who would have gone to some/all games anyway and "lapsed fans" who might have gone rarely or not at all, then the take up is not overwhelming at this price point, i.e. ~260 extra attendees at the equivalent of a £200/full ST price.
This is a good result and reverses some of the previous attrition caused by "mis-leading-announcement-gate" last season when prices weren't increasing but did. It also addresses some of the general pricing/affordability issues for some, but it is not a game-changer.
I noticed Utd announced the other day that season tickets had been frozen for 2017-2018. I wonder when the Dale powers that be will show their hand?
I guess RAFC will have an analysis of numbers of STs, half STs and p-o-t-d for each stand from ticket stubs and an analysis of takings from various non-ticket revenue streams for each location in the ground to compare it to. And Russ will of course have his Hartlepool experience to draw on.
My last guess in this post is that £200, whilst eminently affordable and, imho, a fair price is simply too expensive to make a big difference. Unless the price is pitched in the £100-150 range, current evidence suggests that there isn't going to be a hugely significant increase in numbers. My thinking is that we need a "can't resist it" price if we want to try to make a step-change in attendances. After that season, the club can analyse takings from a bigger sample size again and see how boosting attendances affects profitability with all revenues taken into account.
The club now has the money. It also has the goodwill of most fans. I don't see a massive backlash if a really low-priced ST doesn't work out and the club explains why, says it was an unsustainable model and has to revert to something more like the original pricing, hopefully in a stepwise fashion.
And last but not least, proper marketing as Ken again pointed out. It has to be screamed and shouted from every outlet possible. I read that businesses in the 'pool area were giving STs away as prizes, companies were giving them to employees as rewards, etc, etc. I'm sure RG learned a good few tricks last time around. It would be fantastic if this happened in terms of the buzz it would create and help to lift the team. Promises to be an interesting next 4-5 months both on and off the pitch. [Post edited 8 Feb 2017 16:00]
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Season ticket sales from the forum in July:
http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/members/rochdale/forum/175979/page:2#.WJs_3kXfXCQ
<<Season Ticket figures I noted were:-
1200 sold - predict 1425 by end Aug
257 Under 11s
573 Adult
237 Seniors
43 youth
69 other juniors
(27 ??)>> |  |
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| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 16:22 - Feb 8 with 1594 views | DaleiLama |
Interesting - so the assumptions I made are probably quite close.
So from every home game, we have ~700 full-price adult tickets, 525 x £100 tickets (some at £39?), 330 seniors @ ~£222+ and the rest of the 500+ @ <£100.
The revenue we would "lose" versus this season would be on the full ST holders (~£240/ticket average difference on a £100 ticket = ~£170,000) + seniors (~£125/ticket average difference = ~£40,000) + revenue from p-o-t-d fans who buy a ST instead.
In summary, lost revenue would probably be £0.25m. We'd have to sell a lot of "extras" to recover that. [Post edited 8 Feb 2017 16:33]
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| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 16:34 - Feb 8 with 1562 views | 442Dale |
| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 16:22 - Feb 8 by DaleiLama |
Interesting - so the assumptions I made are probably quite close.
So from every home game, we have ~700 full-price adult tickets, 525 x £100 tickets (some at £39?), 330 seniors @ ~£222+ and the rest of the 500+ @ <£100.
The revenue we would "lose" versus this season would be on the full ST holders (~£240/ticket average difference on a £100 ticket = ~£170,000) + seniors (~£125/ticket average difference = ~£40,000) + revenue from p-o-t-d fans who buy a ST instead.
In summary, lost revenue would probably be £0.25m. We'd have to sell a lot of "extras" to recover that. [Post edited 8 Feb 2017 16:33]
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Would we really have sold another 100+ adult ST in a week before the season/couple of weeks after? | |
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| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 16:37 - Feb 8 with 1556 views | DaleiLama |
| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 16:34 - Feb 8 by 442Dale |
Would we really have sold another 100+ adult ST in a week before the season/couple of weeks after? |
I can't say anything's for definite, but I increased all categories by ~25% as I think 1500+ STs seems to fit the numbering on my book. I suppose the "explanation" is that some left the cost to the last minute, but I agree, it does sound a lot. | |
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| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 18:09 - Feb 8 with 1484 views | pioneer |
I am not sure that pricing season tickets next season is simply about revenue. It might be focussed more on capturing an audience and then doing what is required to keep them. It ought to be easier to keep someone who has already got of his rear end and come to the game then getting him to come in the first place.
And lets not forget the average fan will spend additional money on souveniers, refreshments etc. The less he has to lay out on tickets the more he has left for other things. |  | | |
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| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 18:50 - Feb 8 with 1443 views | 49thseason |
| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 18:09 - Feb 8 by pioneer |
I am not sure that pricing season tickets next season is simply about revenue. It might be focussed more on capturing an audience and then doing what is required to keep them. It ought to be easier to keep someone who has already got of his rear end and come to the game then getting him to come in the first place.
And lets not forget the average fan will spend additional money on souveniers, refreshments etc. The less he has to lay out on tickets the more he has left for other things. |
Why do you imagine that the "the average fan will spend additional money on souvenirs, refreshments etc."?
The shop has nothing I want or need, I eat lunch before I set off to the game and anticipate eating again not long after I return home, I am grateful to friends who bring flasks of coffee, sweets and biscuits but the prospect of queueing for a pie or a brew is not anywhere close to my agenda. And I stopped buying programmes when they went up to a shilling!
What would interest me is a decent tannoy system that I can hear clearly without being deafened. Some music that doesn't sound like someone falling down stairs with a drumkit would be good, a free team sheet or repeated team announcements, a bearable half time entertainment at the Sandy Lane end of the ground occasionally. How about some proper information about which kids teams are playing at half time and maybe what the score was? A net in front of the terrace to stop RNL attempting to knock someone out during the pre-match warm-up,.
How about a Bluetooth system that sends team updates and fixture details directly to phones? And an electronic board for the Golden Gamble result at half time rather than a biro? And let's replace Fatso Desmond with something that looks like a footballer.
There have been thousands of people through the turnstiles at one time or another the question is "how do we get them to come back again soon?" If they didn't feel welcome, didn't feel wanted, and saw the same tinpot approach to their entertainment they saw during their last visit two seasons ago why on earth would they return anytime soon? RAFC are in the entertainment business of 2017 not the football business of 1965 |  | | |
| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 21:47 - Feb 8 with 1336 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 18:50 - Feb 8 by 49thseason |
Why do you imagine that the "the average fan will spend additional money on souvenirs, refreshments etc."?
The shop has nothing I want or need, I eat lunch before I set off to the game and anticipate eating again not long after I return home, I am grateful to friends who bring flasks of coffee, sweets and biscuits but the prospect of queueing for a pie or a brew is not anywhere close to my agenda. And I stopped buying programmes when they went up to a shilling!
What would interest me is a decent tannoy system that I can hear clearly without being deafened. Some music that doesn't sound like someone falling down stairs with a drumkit would be good, a free team sheet or repeated team announcements, a bearable half time entertainment at the Sandy Lane end of the ground occasionally. How about some proper information about which kids teams are playing at half time and maybe what the score was? A net in front of the terrace to stop RNL attempting to knock someone out during the pre-match warm-up,.
How about a Bluetooth system that sends team updates and fixture details directly to phones? And an electronic board for the Golden Gamble result at half time rather than a biro? And let's replace Fatso Desmond with something that looks like a footballer.
There have been thousands of people through the turnstiles at one time or another the question is "how do we get them to come back again soon?" If they didn't feel welcome, didn't feel wanted, and saw the same tinpot approach to their entertainment they saw during their last visit two seasons ago why on earth would they return anytime soon? RAFC are in the entertainment business of 2017 not the football business of 1965 |
well i spend money in the ratcliffe every home gameit is populated by hundreds of others doing the very same, i usually buy a golden gamble ticket,as do about 1000 others. i see big queues at the kiosks, i see people buying programmes, the club shop does good trade on match days.so no imagination required. agree that the pa system needs scrapping [Post edited 8 Feb 2017 21:49]
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| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 22:54 - Feb 8 with 1264 views | R17ALE |
| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 21:47 - Feb 8 by rochdaleriddler |
well i spend money in the ratcliffe every home gameit is populated by hundreds of others doing the very same, i usually buy a golden gamble ticket,as do about 1000 others. i see big queues at the kiosks, i see people buying programmes, the club shop does good trade on match days.so no imagination required. agree that the pa system needs scrapping [Post edited 8 Feb 2017 21:49]
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I wouldn't scrap it. I'd get a system in that talks to customers at a respectable volume, rather than shouting at them in dangerous decibels.
Technically it's our best advertising media to those we need to inform.
But, it's shit at the moment. |  |
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| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 10:31 - Feb 9 with 1110 views | 49thseason |
| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 22:54 - Feb 8 by R17ALE |
I wouldn't scrap it. I'd get a system in that talks to customers at a respectable volume, rather than shouting at them in dangerous decibels.
Technically it's our best advertising media to those we need to inform.
But, it's shit at the moment. |
But it does nothing at all for those who came last week and were totally underwhelmed and went home £20-25 worse off thinking nothing had changed since their last visit when we got promoted (or whenever). If people don't feel involved they won't attend. You are right that we need a tannoy system that works, but we also need a pre-match and half-time announcer who can deliver important messages in a "team Rochdale" fashion. The guy who does it at the moment seems to think he needs to shout AND turn the dial up to 11 | | | |
| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 16:44 - Feb 9 with 940 views | DannyG_RAFC |
An adult ST in the Main Stand is 380, which works out at
15 quid a game a saving of 7 quid per game and 160 quid over the course of the season, theres some silly prices being flapped about on here I think you should be looking at 300, remember its 23 games and 300 is about 13 quid a game, Prices should be cut to £20 and then your looking at a 160 quid saving.
18 quid in the pearl street seems okay, 410 over 23 games so lets look at 250 saving 160 quid
Sandy lane should be 15 quid admission 345 over 23 games so we'll say 200 quid in the sandy
U11 should be free
U18 69 pound season and 5er admission
18-24 and 65+
8 quid sandy
125 quid season
10 quid Pearl
150 quid season
12 quid main stand
200 quid season
Quite simple really price this and target 2000/2500 Season tickets and push the 100 quid half season again at Christmas
Got to be affordable but not too cheap |  | | |
| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 17:33 - Feb 9 with 878 views | DaleiLama |
| Half season tickets - 525 sold on 16:44 - Feb 9 by DannyG_RAFC |
An adult ST in the Main Stand is 380, which works out at
15 quid a game a saving of 7 quid per game and 160 quid over the course of the season, theres some silly prices being flapped about on here I think you should be looking at 300, remember its 23 games and 300 is about 13 quid a game, Prices should be cut to £20 and then your looking at a 160 quid saving.
18 quid in the pearl street seems okay, 410 over 23 games so lets look at 250 saving 160 quid
Sandy lane should be 15 quid admission 345 over 23 games so we'll say 200 quid in the sandy
U11 should be free
U18 69 pound season and 5er admission
18-24 and 65+
8 quid sandy
125 quid season
10 quid Pearl
150 quid season
12 quid main stand
200 quid season
Quite simple really price this and target 2000/2500 Season tickets and push the 100 quid half season again at Christmas
Got to be affordable but not too cheap |
I strongly suspect we already sold ~2100 this season, so we are already in your target range without lifting a finger! This presumably already includes everyone interested at buying at the equivalent of £200/ST as we sold 525 at that price.
I accept your pricing makes it a bit cheaper in Pearl/Sandy for a ST, so that may boost this years numbers a bit more for 2017/2018 too. Also, not many can get to all games.
With all due respect, I don't see your pricing making a huge difference to numbers. And if you offer a half ST at £100 for the main again, some fans may cherry pick games before Xmas if they have holidays just gone and Xmas to pay for and get a half ST for Xmas (or not bother if we are picking the wrong teams/not doing well).
RG has a history with "silly prices". So he may decide to "have a flap" rather than a "flutter" anyway.
It all comes down to what he and the club want to achieve.
PS If you make the cheapest p-o-t-d ticket £12 for home fans what price are you making away tickets? [Post edited 9 Feb 2017 17:41]
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