| Brexit .... My thoughts... 11:07 - Jun 16 with 151222 views | JacksDad |
The one thing I am certain of re this vote is that no-one knows for sure what the repercussions economically will be if we pull out. If you listen to the experts it will be better if we stay in, however its all unconvincing. My issue is that after 10 years of Austerity, the services in this country have been cut to the bone, that is services that are needed by us all - not just Immigrants/benefit spongers. We are not in a position to afford the enormous gamble if it all goes t1ts up. I am taking my lead from Ray Winston and gambling responsibly and staying in. If we ever get to situation when everything is adequately funded and horrible 0 hours contracts were abolished ... then maybe it might be worth the risk to pull out. But to do it now is a massive gamble which we just cannot afford to lose. |  | | |  |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:11 - Jul 7 with 2182 views | stumbleandfall |
And just to be clear I worked in the field of deporting foreign criminals for 10 year so have genuine insight. Don't blame Brussels for failures. Look closer to home. Inadequate funding, low motivation, failing to adhere to correct procedure.
I worked through the whole glorious period in the mid 2000s when foreign prisoners were simply released rather than deported. Look it up. Can't blame Brussels for that. [Post edited 7 Jul 2016 10:46]
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:16 - Jul 7 with 2176 views | PinnerPaul |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 09:40 - Jul 7 by TheBlob |
I'd be very wary of going in a hospital that had been thrown up in two weeks. |
Didn't say built, just wondered if the location of the first one had been decided?  | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:57 - Jul 7 with 2050 views | THEBUSH |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:50 - Jul 7 by loftboy |
Yes just press the bloody button and get on with it. |
Nah, lots of negotiations going on, or will do when Cameron leaves, this Brexit thing is gonna take years and years, might never happen ? |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:16 - Jul 7 with 2012 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:55 - Jul 7 by Mytch_QPR |
Why do you think they're waiting?
EU Council have told us to get on with it too.
Meanwhile, ministers taking advice realise how much worse off we're going to be.
I'll believe it when I see it. |
It would be like kicking off without picking a team .
We need to get a new PM in place , then a negotiating team in place with specialists if req .
We also need a team to open trade negotiations with the non EU countries that are opening the door to us .
Then we invoke article 50 and get on with it .
DEC 31st would be a nice date IMO
The EU council want us to get on with it ,? .... its not their call |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:38 - Jul 7 with 1976 views | DannytheR |
https://next.ft.com/content/7ccfd858-41e0-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d
Britain is turning to the private sector to prepare for Brexit, seeking to second consultants to boost a civil service with almost no experience of complex trade negotiations.
… The civil service is badly underpowered in some areas, notably in trade. Britain has not negotiated its own trade deal since 1973 when it handed over responsibility to the European Commission.
Sir Simon Fraser, former permanent secretary at the Foreign Office, said last month that Britain had 20 “active hands-on” trade negotiators, and would be up against 600 experienced trade specialists in Brussels.
The government is believed to have estimated that it needs between 700 and 750 extra staff to negotiate not just with the EU but with the other countries with which the bloc has trade deals.
“The government is going to struggle to gear up to have the bandwidth to properly negotiate the detailed cross-EU and wider bilateral trade deals across the globe,” said Iain Anderson, executive chairman of communications company Cicero.
One leading lawyer said staff were not willing to be seconded to government for the task and that the government’s hopes of recruiting enough people from the private sector for the task ahead was “dreaming”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/03/government-faces-worldwide-hunt-f
… Overhauling the country’s system of regulation would be a mammoth challenge by itself. At the same time, the UK faces perhaps an even more daunting task.
During its membership of the EU, the UK has delegated its powers of trade negotiation to the European Commission. It now has very few trade negotiators on hand, according to Government estimates, and will need to devote resources to increasing their number.
Finding them will be one of the toughest challenges for whoever ends up managing Whitehall’s trade efforts. However, the pool to draw them from is tiny. Lord Price, the minister for trade and investment, has said that the Government has about 40 trade negotiators, compared with the 550 employed by the EU.
Yet even these figures may exaggerate the number of people qualified to go into the room for Britain and agree trading deals for a post-EU era. Lee-Makiyama estimates that there cannot be more than 200 actual negotiators in the world as a whole. This shortfall will require the civil service to look far and wide, and is indicative of the kind of skills shortages Whitehall will struggle with in the years ahead. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:47 - Jul 7 with 1964 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:38 - Jul 7 by DannytheR |
https://next.ft.com/content/7ccfd858-41e0-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d
Britain is turning to the private sector to prepare for Brexit, seeking to second consultants to boost a civil service with almost no experience of complex trade negotiations.
… The civil service is badly underpowered in some areas, notably in trade. Britain has not negotiated its own trade deal since 1973 when it handed over responsibility to the European Commission.
Sir Simon Fraser, former permanent secretary at the Foreign Office, said last month that Britain had 20 “active hands-on” trade negotiators, and would be up against 600 experienced trade specialists in Brussels.
The government is believed to have estimated that it needs between 700 and 750 extra staff to negotiate not just with the EU but with the other countries with which the bloc has trade deals.
“The government is going to struggle to gear up to have the bandwidth to properly negotiate the detailed cross-EU and wider bilateral trade deals across the globe,” said Iain Anderson, executive chairman of communications company Cicero.
One leading lawyer said staff were not willing to be seconded to government for the task and that the government’s hopes of recruiting enough people from the private sector for the task ahead was “dreaming”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/03/government-faces-worldwide-hunt-f
… Overhauling the country’s system of regulation would be a mammoth challenge by itself. At the same time, the UK faces perhaps an even more daunting task.
During its membership of the EU, the UK has delegated its powers of trade negotiation to the European Commission. It now has very few trade negotiators on hand, according to Government estimates, and will need to devote resources to increasing their number.
Finding them will be one of the toughest challenges for whoever ends up managing Whitehall’s trade efforts. However, the pool to draw them from is tiny. Lord Price, the minister for trade and investment, has said that the Government has about 40 trade negotiators, compared with the 550 employed by the EU.
Yet even these figures may exaggerate the number of people qualified to go into the room for Britain and agree trading deals for a post-EU era. Lee-Makiyama estimates that there cannot be more than 200 actual negotiators in the world as a whole. This shortfall will require the civil service to look far and wide, and is indicative of the kind of skills shortages Whitehall will struggle with in the years ahead. |
Key sentence ....
During its membership of the EU, the UK has delegated its powers of trade negotiation to the European Commission.
Still no deal with the US , India and China ...
So we have so many countries lining up to deal with us , we cant get to them all for a while . Just too many customers .. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:51 - Jul 7 with 1952 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:47 - Jul 7 by essextaxiboy |
Key sentence ....
During its membership of the EU, the UK has delegated its powers of trade negotiation to the European Commission.
Still no deal with the US , India and China ...
So we have so many countries lining up to deal with us , we cant get to them all for a while . Just too many customers .. |
Let me know when you've costed the implications.
How many instalments of £350 million a week, I wonder? | | | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:03 - Jul 7 with 3047 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:51 - Jul 7 by DannytheR |
Let me know when you've costed the implications.
How many instalments of £350 million a week, I wonder? |
750 on 100k ...double that for expenses ,about 9 weeks
Now ..what shall we spend the other 41 weeks on . I reckon about 3 would cover your research shortfall . As the negotiations conclude over the years you can have more ..
Now .. only 13.3 billion to spend ..... | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:14 - Jul 7 with 3034 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:03 - Jul 7 by essextaxiboy |
750 on 100k ...double that for expenses ,about 9 weeks
Now ..what shall we spend the other 41 weeks on . I reckon about 3 would cover your research shortfall . As the negotiations conclude over the years you can have more ..
Now .. only 13.3 billion to spend ..... |
And with the real figure of 161 million a week? ( https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/)
The interesting thing will be how many people are actually left here by the time this has all unfolded. Historically, as with any country that goes over the cliff like this, the young and talented leave. People go where there's a future.
It will break my heart but I'll certainly be wanting my own kids to go to university elsewhere. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:33 - Jul 7 with 3003 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:14 - Jul 7 by DannytheR |
And with the real figure of 161 million a week? ( https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/)
The interesting thing will be how many people are actually left here by the time this has all unfolded. Historically, as with any country that goes over the cliff like this, the young and talented leave. People go where there's a future.
It will break my heart but I'll certainly be wanting my own kids to go to university elsewhere. |
350 was your figure not mine ....and you cant have your research rebate twice !
Honestly though Danny where would they go ?
Apart from a couple in the US we have the best Universities in the world .
In a month or twos time I will be at Heathrow day after day watching literally thousands of students from inside and outside the EU coming to study (and pay for it ) here.
Where is the future for those youngsters in Greece, Portugal and Spain ? . They have no jobs or prospects of getting one . That is a very dangerous situation to let simmer away . That is what the EU is doing for the young
I mentioned the other day about talking the country down , you just posted that the country was "going over a cliff " . I would say the EU is closer to the edge than us .. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:49 - Jul 7 with 2988 views | londonscottish |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:38 - Jul 7 by DannytheR |
https://next.ft.com/content/7ccfd858-41e0-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d
Britain is turning to the private sector to prepare for Brexit, seeking to second consultants to boost a civil service with almost no experience of complex trade negotiations.
… The civil service is badly underpowered in some areas, notably in trade. Britain has not negotiated its own trade deal since 1973 when it handed over responsibility to the European Commission.
Sir Simon Fraser, former permanent secretary at the Foreign Office, said last month that Britain had 20 “active hands-on” trade negotiators, and would be up against 600 experienced trade specialists in Brussels.
The government is believed to have estimated that it needs between 700 and 750 extra staff to negotiate not just with the EU but with the other countries with which the bloc has trade deals.
“The government is going to struggle to gear up to have the bandwidth to properly negotiate the detailed cross-EU and wider bilateral trade deals across the globe,” said Iain Anderson, executive chairman of communications company Cicero.
One leading lawyer said staff were not willing to be seconded to government for the task and that the government’s hopes of recruiting enough people from the private sector for the task ahead was “dreaming”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/03/government-faces-worldwide-hunt-f
… Overhauling the country’s system of regulation would be a mammoth challenge by itself. At the same time, the UK faces perhaps an even more daunting task.
During its membership of the EU, the UK has delegated its powers of trade negotiation to the European Commission. It now has very few trade negotiators on hand, according to Government estimates, and will need to devote resources to increasing their number.
Finding them will be one of the toughest challenges for whoever ends up managing Whitehall’s trade efforts. However, the pool to draw them from is tiny. Lord Price, the minister for trade and investment, has said that the Government has about 40 trade negotiators, compared with the 550 employed by the EU.
Yet even these figures may exaggerate the number of people qualified to go into the room for Britain and agree trading deals for a post-EU era. Lee-Makiyama estimates that there cannot be more than 200 actual negotiators in the world as a whole. This shortfall will require the civil service to look far and wide, and is indicative of the kind of skills shortages Whitehall will struggle with in the years ahead. |
Stop scaremongering. Last time I looked there were at least 202 of them available worldwide. The vast majority were available for hire at short notice AND most of them were really really pro UK!!!
Happy news!! |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:54 - Jul 7 with 2980 views | distortR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:14 - Jul 7 by DannytheR |
And with the real figure of 161 million a week? ( https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/)
The interesting thing will be how many people are actually left here by the time this has all unfolded. Historically, as with any country that goes over the cliff like this, the young and talented leave. People go where there's a future.
It will break my heart but I'll certainly be wanting my own kids to go to university elsewhere. |
unfortunately you're stuck with me
 | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 23:12 - Jul 7 with 3022 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:33 - Jul 7 by essextaxiboy |
350 was your figure not mine ....and you cant have your research rebate twice !
Honestly though Danny where would they go ?
Apart from a couple in the US we have the best Universities in the world .
In a month or twos time I will be at Heathrow day after day watching literally thousands of students from inside and outside the EU coming to study (and pay for it ) here.
Where is the future for those youngsters in Greece, Portugal and Spain ? . They have no jobs or prospects of getting one . That is a very dangerous situation to let simmer away . That is what the EU is doing for the young
I mentioned the other day about talking the country down , you just posted that the country was "going over a cliff " . I would say the EU is closer to the edge than us .. |
I'd like them to go to the States. I've seen you talking about British universities as the best in the world before, and without wanting to be a pain in the arse about it, it's another very optimistic interpretation of the facts. The last world rankings had literally something like 44 American universities in the top 100 as against ten British. Even Oxford and Cambridge are on the slide.
It's also a question of what they do with their lives afterwards, and an American university will give them a better chance of staying there and building something better for themselves than what England can now offer them.
British universities are very dependent on students from abroad, it's true. At the moment our big names still carry a lot of weight as a designer label, but that can't last forever once all those rich parents realise the quality of teaching is higher elsewhere. The truth is Brexit will only hasten the brain drain heading in the opposite direction.
All joking aside, I realise we've been playing ping pong on this for a while now, but you're a bright bloke - deep down you know your side is a busted flush. Look at the last few pages of this thread: people using three year old articles to say France is about to go under (when it's actually just overtaken us); people saying they voted to leave the EU when it turns out they actually wanted to leave the European Court of Human Rights; when in doubt bring up Gordon Brown. On one level it's funny, but there are real world consequences to this fiasco, and you know just like I do they're going to be ugly.
I think I've said on here before, I've got nothing but contempt for the way the EU treated Greece, but it's also worth remembering how much of the strife there was originally due to the financial crash. (Not sure even Gordon Brown can be blamed for that one). And remind me, which country is now apparently on the verge of handing over the next four years of its government to an unelected former banker?
In the midst of all the horror stories about European economies (even the stuff which isn't three years old), it's interesting you would mention Spain. 3.2% growth last year, forecast to do even better this one. When do you reckon we'll next have 3.2% growth? | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 06:15 - Jul 8 with 2958 views | Honkytonks |
And uses up 27% of all benefits paid our | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 09:22 - Jul 8 with 2902 views | 1BobbyHazell |
Excellent article to remind us of where this society was/is headed.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/07/stories-buried-brexit-chil
It seems a little, shall we say, defeatist to me to see all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about the current political 'turmoil' and loss of leadership when this was where the incumbent system has been leading us.
I hope no one, in or out, is seriously pretending to themselves that if we just leave 'them' to it it is all going to work out fine.
Whether we end up leaving or not, surely now there is a brief opportunity, however minute, to push for increased transparency and accountability of our MP's, an opportunity to take our seeming increase in political interest and energy and use it to shine a light on what the establishment and their system have been feeding us and the direction their Society Dismantling has been taking us. Write to your MP, organise/go on a march, sign a petition, start a petition, write a blog, give time to a charity, research alternative economic systems (the current one of growth requirement and money created out of thin air by private banks has an inevitable and unavoidable end, as someone put it 'will we manage it or be mauled by it?) so that we can see ways out of the illusion of permanent world debt to organisations who move numbers around a computer screen, join a LETS scheme, research, source and use local companies and businesses - Buy British! I'm sure we could all individually see what we can do today to help improve society or the local community that we are all responsible for.
Or we can sit on our sofas pretending that everything was going brilliantly but now (after not a single law change) it is the end of civilisation so the best thing to do is find every article we can from neo liberal mouth pieces proving that it's all terrible (after not a single law change). The Markets that some left leaners on here now seem utterly obsessed with are based on confidence so ...
I think reading that piece one can see the possible division and disconnect between someone like Danny who clearly believes that the sky is about to fall on our heads and those that have already experienced it doing so and maybe felt their vote had to be a desperate call for help and attention from the chattering political classes. To merely chastise and ignore them even more is not going to help anyone's situation.
As I agreed with, even prior to the vote, a brexit is not going to save us from the devastating results of neo liberal policies deliberately designed to create increases in poverty and the wealth gap but crucially being in the EU was clearly not protecting us from it either. And in my research I found it to be the case that the EU was ultimately a champion for such policies as it is dominated by global corporate and financial interests.
So what are we going to do about it? Can we do anything about it? Are we helpless either way? What level of increased communal action would it take to create any real change? If our generation is too weak, complacent etc etc to do anything as we watch the dismantling of our social support and provision to the benefit of foreign 'investors' and big banks is it not better to give our future generations less layers of control between them and the decision making processes to allow them a chance of achieving real change if by some miracle they wake up to the real nature of the current wealth and power grab being enacted by and for the benefit of those who have most of it already?
As long as there is still football, do we really care?
ps I'm not looking for an argument
pps or links to Fortune Magazine!
ppps Love you Danny x |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:22 - Jul 8 with 2847 views | derbyhoop |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:33 - Jul 7 by essextaxiboy |
350 was your figure not mine ....and you cant have your research rebate twice !
Honestly though Danny where would they go ?
Apart from a couple in the US we have the best Universities in the world .
In a month or twos time I will be at Heathrow day after day watching literally thousands of students from inside and outside the EU coming to study (and pay for it ) here.
Where is the future for those youngsters in Greece, Portugal and Spain ? . They have no jobs or prospects of getting one . That is a very dangerous situation to let simmer away . That is what the EU is doing for the young
I mentioned the other day about talking the country down , you just posted that the country was "going over a cliff " . I would say the EU is closer to the edge than us .. |
Bloody immigrants, LOL. Coming in here and paying full tuition fees. Why don't they
go to universities in their own countries then half of ours would go bust. Market forces rule. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:53 - Jul 8 with 2747 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:33 - Jul 7 by essextaxiboy |
350 was your figure not mine ....and you cant have your research rebate twice !
Honestly though Danny where would they go ?
Apart from a couple in the US we have the best Universities in the world .
In a month or twos time I will be at Heathrow day after day watching literally thousands of students from inside and outside the EU coming to study (and pay for it ) here.
Where is the future for those youngsters in Greece, Portugal and Spain ? . They have no jobs or prospects of getting one . That is a very dangerous situation to let simmer away . That is what the EU is doing for the young
I mentioned the other day about talking the country down , you just posted that the country was "going over a cliff " . I would say the EU is closer to the edge than us .. |
350 was the Leave Campaign's figure on the side of a bus.
It was a bloody lie and that's all here is to it. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 23:36 - Jul 8 with 2717 views | Brightonhoop |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:47 - Jul 7 by essextaxiboy |
Key sentence ....
During its membership of the EU, the UK has delegated its powers of trade negotiation to the European Commission.
Still no deal with the US , India and China ...
So we have so many countries lining up to deal with us , we cant get to them all for a while . Just too many customers .. |
I'm just so glad the experts were on it, aren't you? [Post edited 8 Jul 2016 23:53]
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 09:34 - Jul 11 with 2574 views | hoof_hearted |
From sky news
"More than 1,000 of the barristers signed a letter to Mr Cameron saying that primary legislation will be needed before Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty - which covers how EU members can leave - can be put into use.
The barristers say there is evidence that the referendum result "was influenced by misrepresentations of fact and promises that could not be delivered".
They added: "Since the result was only narrowly in favour of Brexit, it cannot be discounted that the misrepresentations and promises were a decisive or contributory factor in the result."
We need a new Chilcott report on this whole thing to tell us what we already know but not until they've spent a gazillion pounds doing so in 7 years time. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:01 - Jul 11 with 2551 views | loftboy |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 09:34 - Jul 11 by hoof_hearted |
From sky news
"More than 1,000 of the barristers signed a letter to Mr Cameron saying that primary legislation will be needed before Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty - which covers how EU members can leave - can be put into use.
The barristers say there is evidence that the referendum result "was influenced by misrepresentations of fact and promises that could not be delivered".
They added: "Since the result was only narrowly in favour of Brexit, it cannot be discounted that the misrepresentations and promises were a decisive or contributory factor in the result."
We need a new Chilcott report on this whole thing to tell us what we already know but not until they've spent a gazillion pounds doing so in 7 years time. |
Over a million is hardly narrow imho. |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:59 - Jul 11 with 2517 views | hoof_hearted |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:01 - Jul 11 by loftboy |
Over a million is hardly narrow imho. |
I think that's the general view around the country and the world now. We've done it. Now let's get on with making it work. Europe thinks we're kunts. Feck 'em. They thought we were kunts anyway. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:29 - Jul 11 with 2490 views | paulparker |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:01 - Jul 11 by loftboy |
Over a million is hardly narrow imho. |
also take into account that all of Scotland and Nireland voted to remain in and it was still a million difference in the end,
democracy has spoken so lets get on with it , im sick of the princess Diana esq moping & weeping around about this |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:43 - Jul 11 with 2469 views | TacticalR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 09:34 - Jul 11 by hoof_hearted |
From sky news
"More than 1,000 of the barristers signed a letter to Mr Cameron saying that primary legislation will be needed before Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty - which covers how EU members can leave - can be put into use.
The barristers say there is evidence that the referendum result "was influenced by misrepresentations of fact and promises that could not be delivered".
They added: "Since the result was only narrowly in favour of Brexit, it cannot be discounted that the misrepresentations and promises were a decisive or contributory factor in the result."
We need a new Chilcott report on this whole thing to tell us what we already know but not until they've spent a gazillion pounds doing so in 7 years time. |
Don't the barristers win either way?
They are going to have a field day negotiating the Brexit divorce proceedings. |  |
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