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My view on JC has changed over the last week. But only slightly.
I started off thinking it's all a bit hilarious because he is totally unelectable. I still think he is totally unelectable, but it might actually be a positive thing that he is elected leader.
Kendall is vapid, and Burnham and Cooper are just irrelevant, empty suits. JC will at least pose different questions. He's going to have a hell of a job holding the Labour Party together - and he probably won't manage it - but he will get support in opposition from the SNP. An unelectable opposition could actually be an effective one.
Just goes to show postings on planetswans can change people's minds. Even if only slightly. Some of the arguments put forward on here have actually made me think again.
they wanted him dead he knew way to much to go on trial.
Of course, but if ISIS or the Taliban or one of their ilk shot an unarmed Obama or the Queen in cold blood and dumped them in the sea there'd be international uproar.
I'm not defending Bin Laden but if we are to assume the moral and ethical high ground over these people we shouldn't sink to their level and break the geneva convention in order to make a political splash.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Of course, but if ISIS or the Taliban or one of their ilk shot an unarmed Obama or the Queen in cold blood and dumped them in the sea there'd be international uproar.
I'm not defending Bin Laden but if we are to assume the moral and ethical high ground over these people we shouldn't sink to their level and break the geneva convention in order to make a political splash.
But to even suggest such a thing is heresy to some. You are now a terrorist sympathiser. Far better to make instant judgements on the use of one word rather than reading and considering the full context you see.
As far as i know,no ps poster was there".....yet assumptions are made and higher moral ground is claimed.
Priority was to take him dead or alive.
For our safety.
For a decent human being to even contemplate this as a tragedy is overwhelming.
Of course higher moral ground is claimed. We like to portray isis/Taliban/terrorists as uncivilised brutal barbarians, whilst we practice the noble democracy which promotes freedom and liberty.
But our democracy and justice system is based on an evolution of the fundamental concept of magna Carta that no man can lay their hands on another without trial and no man is above the law. The Geneva convention has strict rules about using lethal force against unarmed combatants.
Therefore when we resort to just sticking a bullet in the guy's head because it's politically the easier way we are acting just as they would. Our supposed 'values' become a joke and we become just as barbaric as they are.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Ah what do I know, eh Richard. I've just read that I am apparently a "self-opinionated cocksucking knob". This from you, the man who regularly slates others for indulging in personal abuse on here. When was the last time I called you anything like that, Perch? When have I ever, in fact?
Heh! Perch sometimes like to lecture about how debate should be carried out. I missed the bit about how shouting cocksucking knob is acceptable. Perch isn't very bright.
As far as i know,no ps poster was there".....yet assumptions are made and higher moral ground is claimed.
Priority was to take him dead or alive.
For our safety.
For a decent human being to even contemplate this as a tragedy is overwhelming.
Perch mun, he didn't say that it was a tragedy that he had died as if he had just lost a great friend and would be sending bouquets of flowers to his widows, he said that it was a tragedy that he had been killed instead of being made to face trial.
This is not an extreme or dangerous view, as Highjack has already pointed out, and was pretty mainstream at the time.
If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys?
Perch mun, he didn't say that it was a tragedy that he had died as if he had just lost a great friend and would be sending bouquets of flowers to his widows, he said that it was a tragedy that he had been killed instead of being made to face trial.
This is not an extreme or dangerous view, as Highjack has already pointed out, and was pretty mainstream at the time.
No sorry
We can't let true facts get in the way on this thread .
Jeremy Corbyn is stopping our stadium expansion because he's a Cardiff city fan .
Constantly going on about the time he posts is a bit silly Perch. If you haven't got anything better to post in response to him, perhaps better not to post at all?
You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help.
Just concerned for a fellow member of the human race if he s posting at 0346 having previously posted at 5am. NOW unless this guy is in another time zone Id say its odd in the extreme. If hump is at work, quite what the feck is he doing using the firm s time for private stuff.
You really do have a collection of chums .
I just read, "Im not defending Bin Laden... really.
As for IS ,WELL, we aint that bad, not that barbaric, frankly Im amazed people can equate us with IS and their butchery -often of their own people -and us.
Anyway, its the name JEREMY ;always hated it. I mean a Labour man too ,one for the workers/poor/vulnerable.
Just concerned for a fellow member of the human race if he s posting at 0346 having previously posted at 5am. NOW unless this guy is in another time zone Id say its odd in the extreme. If hump is at work, quite what the feck is he doing using the firm s time for private stuff.
You really do have a collection of chums .
I just read, "Im not defending Bin Laden... really.
As for IS ,WELL, we aint that bad, not that barbaric, frankly Im amazed people can equate us with IS and their butchery -often of their own people -and us.
Anyway, its the name JEREMY ;always hated it. I mean a Labour man too ,one for the workers/poor/vulnerable.
Not everyone is chummy just because they disagree with you Perch.
If that was the case, we'd struggle to find a venue big enough to meet up in...
You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help.
Someone elses words but my feelings agree with him.
"do you honestly think a lot of these rich people got rich by working harder than your average nurse or office cleaner?
No, as John says, many of them inherited it, and as you alluded to, many of them had better educational opportunities than many poor people. No doubt there are exceptions, but the wealthy person born in poverty who dragged themselves up by the bootstraps is the exception, not the rule, and not all of those on low income who are struggling are cider drinking scallies.
My Grandmother's carers when she developed Alzheimer's work like slaves on minimum wage for far longer than their contracted hours, and they weren't even reimbursed for petrol. They aren't self made millionaires, but they are not low life scum either and they deserve proper, decent wages and working conditions, instead of which things have gotten steadily worse as the rich get richer and everybody else sees a decline in their living standards in the name of austerity.
'm far from a communist, but the wealthy and the corporations need to understand that they live in a society and ordinary hard working people are entitled to well funded public services and proper wages and working conditions instead of being dispensable skivvies who only exist for the benefit of the mega wealthy.
Which is why it is so frustrating that Britain's left wingers just don't seem to be able to strike the right balance between fighting for social justice for ordinary folk without also being utterly bonkers about other things that are also important like defence of the realm and standing up for Britain and its people.
How am I supposed to vote for a man with whom I agree with in a lot of ways except for the fact he would make common cause with its enemies and sell us down the river as penance for the Empire and all this other bollocks?"
As I said to Jackonicko the other day, anyone who opposes Labour on principle should be delighted with Corbyn being elected to apparently ruin it. Yet he seems to have driven some to a very public mental breakdown. It's very odd.
[Post edited 31 Aug 2015 16:18]
I'm far from convinced Corbyn is going to be the disaster that people are predicting. It'd be a turbulent ride of course but Labour's best chance at the moment IMO is for them to be seen as a party of substance, and appointing one of the three middle managers (great analogy that) won't get them anywhere apart from more of the same. My word, this country needs a proper ideological debate, not two shades of the same.
I'm far from convinced Corbyn is going to be the disaster that people are predicting. It'd be a turbulent ride of course but Labour's best chance at the moment IMO is for them to be seen as a party of substance, and appointing one of the three middle managers (great analogy that) won't get them anywhere apart from more of the same. My word, this country needs a proper ideological debate, not two shades of the same.
Any of the three middle managers would be a better leader than the bolshy shop steward gobbing off regularly...
Well,only one way to find out then. If this site is anything to go by ,we ll be far more tolerant .
Wont we.
Ux, the "middle classes" like you will bear the brunt of Corbyn s attitude.
As a professional, ask how it is all to be financed.
The "rich" wont be able to pay for it all to be re distributed.
I find Corbyn is always prepared to answer questions which is very refreshing for a politician. He has stated on regular occasions on how he plans to finance his policies. It is up to those that disagree to challenge his figures. I am all for such a debate. Most of the responses to him have just been scare mongering and name calling however.
You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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