| Vets 17:55 - Mar 19 with 6757 views | max936 |
Hell of a job fair do's, they've got a license to print money, my maxy needs more Metacam for his arthritis and I've found it online far cheaper than my vet sells it, but I need a prescription, so I asked the vet for one, but there's a charge of 15 quid called a writing fee, fukme sidewards, maxy has been under the same veteninary surgery since he was 10 weeks old, starving bastards. [Post edited 19 Mar 2015 17:56]
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| Vets on 14:18 - Mar 20 with 1535 views | Dyfnant |
| Vets on 05:12 - Mar 20 by Professor |
OK, if you think that's the case believe it. |
This generation will see a basic re-nationalisation of GP services, it'll be driven by medics realising the risk/reward isn't worth it. |  |
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| Vets on 23:18 - Mar 20 with 1506 views | Tycoch_Tyrant |
| Vets on 23:29 - Mar 19 by jack_lord |
One of my Dobey friends passed this on to me:
"I don't really have any advice but Metacam is equivalent to ibuprofen.... But many have found that the ingredients in Yumove by Lintbells is very effective with arthritis. It contains Glucosamine, Green lipped mussel, Chondroitin and vitamins... I have heard it's very effective with arthritis. I would give it a try if it were my dobie, supposed to have effects within 6 ish weeks or so " |
A balanced approach to OA is a decent one - it's a multifactorial disease which benefits most from multifactorial management. Metacam certainly has it's place, it is an anti-inflammatory/pain relief medicine similar to ibuprofen… but it is important to remember that it isn't a treatment as in it makes your dog more comfortable, but it won't solve the problem - that will unfortunately only get worse. It's been shown in the past that careful management of lifestyle and weight actually has a large bearing on how a dog copes with OA. Measured exercise is good, though obviously over-doing it has it's issues. Alternatively, there are a number of other medications available such as rimadyl (carprofen) or onsior (robenocoxib) which act in a similar manner to metacam but might have more/less efficacy - that is very much individual dog dependent. There is also cartrophen which has been suggested to be more of an actual treatment that a symptom-alleviator.
A slight word of warning on supplements/nutriceuticals. There are a number of products which come with big claims of 'natural' and 'holistic' and 'my dog turned from a 15 year old to a puppy in 3 days' - some will even claim to be 'scientifically tested'. This often actually means that someone has verified that it is 'safe' for a dog to consume the product, and actually has no bearing on whether it actually does any good! This does not actually really apply to yumove - in the limited number of studies addressing neutriceuticals in OA, chondroitin does seem to have a positive impact. Evidence for glucosamine and green lipped mussel is less, though cautiously positive. However, to find your 'good' nutriceutical amongst the crap can be challenging - even for the vets who's job it is to do so! |  | | |
| Vets on 23:42 - Mar 20 with 1498 views | max936 |
| Vets on 23:18 - Mar 20 by Tycoch_Tyrant |
A balanced approach to OA is a decent one - it's a multifactorial disease which benefits most from multifactorial management. Metacam certainly has it's place, it is an anti-inflammatory/pain relief medicine similar to ibuprofen… but it is important to remember that it isn't a treatment as in it makes your dog more comfortable, but it won't solve the problem - that will unfortunately only get worse. It's been shown in the past that careful management of lifestyle and weight actually has a large bearing on how a dog copes with OA. Measured exercise is good, though obviously over-doing it has it's issues. Alternatively, there are a number of other medications available such as rimadyl (carprofen) or onsior (robenocoxib) which act in a similar manner to metacam but might have more/less efficacy - that is very much individual dog dependent. There is also cartrophen which has been suggested to be more of an actual treatment that a symptom-alleviator.
A slight word of warning on supplements/nutriceuticals. There are a number of products which come with big claims of 'natural' and 'holistic' and 'my dog turned from a 15 year old to a puppy in 3 days' - some will even claim to be 'scientifically tested'. This often actually means that someone has verified that it is 'safe' for a dog to consume the product, and actually has no bearing on whether it actually does any good! This does not actually really apply to yumove - in the limited number of studies addressing neutriceuticals in OA, chondroitin does seem to have a positive impact. Evidence for glucosamine and green lipped mussel is less, though cautiously positive. However, to find your 'good' nutriceutical amongst the crap can be challenging - even for the vets who's job it is to do so! |
Cheers for that, I spoke with the Secretary of the Welsh Doberman club earlier tonight and she give me some reassurances on metacam, need to speak to vet again though as I suggested giving metacam as and when and she seemed to thing that would be ok, she also suggested giving him oils such as virgin olive oil etc I've also ordered Joint aid which he can eat with his food, was gonna get Yumove, but that's in tablet form which I don't really want to give him. [Post edited 20 Mar 2015 23:47]
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| Vets on 09:57 - Mar 21 with 1481 views | Treforys_Jack |
Wait until you try and claim on the insurance, because insurance is good rite !!!!!! trust me read the small print very carefully then read it again. Pet insurance - biggest rip off going. Vets appear to have 2 tier pricing, 1 for pets covered by insurance, tell them you have no insurance and the price is totally different, and not just a couple of quid.Some definitely play on our emotions and devotion to our pets. |  | | |
| Vets on 12:24 - Mar 21 with 1472 views | Tycoch_Tyrant |
| Vets on 23:42 - Mar 20 by max936 |
Cheers for that, I spoke with the Secretary of the Welsh Doberman club earlier tonight and she give me some reassurances on metacam, need to speak to vet again though as I suggested giving metacam as and when and she seemed to thing that would be ok, she also suggested giving him oils such as virgin olive oil etc I've also ordered Joint aid which he can eat with his food, was gonna get Yumove, but that's in tablet form which I don't really want to give him. [Post edited 20 Mar 2015 23:47]
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No problem. Giving metacam as and when you think he is a bit painful is certainly an option… I would advise some caution though, particularly if there is more than one of you who does the caring for your dog. Remember that it is once a day, after food - I have seen it happen before where a dog is overdosed just because a couple of people in a house have the same thought and act without asking other's first… very easily done! If you do go for this strategy it's probably worth having a diary or something like that to keep track of how much is being given, and when.
Oils such as cod liver oil are another option, though perhaps more preventative than curative… but then they are pretty cheap so certainly worth a go. I understand with regards to tablets… I have no personal experience of yumove to know how palatable it is, and having a dog that hates being tableted can be a nightmare! Managing OA is very much a balance between what you can afford, what is good for the dog and what the dog will tolerate. Sure tablet 'X' might be great for him… but if it's a massive fight to get him to take it and he stops trusting you, it isn't really gonna work. However, it might be worth trying - particularly hidden in something really tasty - as an easy dog to tablet makes life easier generally… particularly if other health conditions crop up where a tablet is the only option. | | | |
| Vets on 12:37 - Mar 21 with 1466 views | Tycoch_Tyrant |
| Vets on 09:57 - Mar 21 by Treforys_Jack |
Wait until you try and claim on the insurance, because insurance is good rite !!!!!! trust me read the small print very carefully then read it again. Pet insurance - biggest rip off going. Vets appear to have 2 tier pricing, 1 for pets covered by insurance, tell them you have no insurance and the price is totally different, and not just a couple of quid.Some definitely play on our emotions and devotion to our pets. |
Not exactly true. If vets truly charged an 'insurance price' and a 'non-insured price' for exactly the same procedure, they would be on a one-way route to being struck off. Insurance companies are extremely hot on this and will constantly question a vet on how 'necessary' a procedure is. However, what you might get is that when an animal is insured vets will know that for this condition they can spend up to whatever amount the policy allows. This is generally more (say £5000) than what a client might be able to afford (say £1000). Treatments for any one condition are not black and white - there can be a range of acceptable treatments, but in those there might be treatments that are better than others. The better treatments are generally newer and therefore more expensive. Insurance allows vets to provide the better treatments whilst still charging the same cost (the insurance excess) to the client. What you are describing is a vet adjusting their treatment plan to fit the budget of the client - a vet who truly didn't care would try to emotionally play you into going for the optimum most expensive treatment. | | | |
| Vets on 12:54 - Mar 21 with 1461 views | airedale |
| Vets on 18:14 - Mar 19 by jackportis |
Mine was diagnosed with depression!! Suggested tablets I declined. I am not being funny but a cat with depression! his biggest stress is what bed to sleep on. |
Look Jack, I'm no animal psychologist, and I don't want to alarm you re the depression issue, but your cat doesn't like blue by any chance? |  | | |
| Vets on 13:04 - Mar 21 with 1460 views | waynekerr55 |
| Vets on 22:25 - Mar 19 by max936 |
He's always gone to Afon JL, they know him quite well now as well, although he hasn't needed to go that often, think that's gonna change now though, he's 11 in August and he's turning into a right old gent  |
As the Mrs was in Swansea until 3 years ago we used afon. They aren't bad, although I wasn't too impressed with the stitching on my lab when she was speyed.
When I'm back I stock up on milbemax as our vet doesn't stock it and its twice the price in another place.
Money saving tip - buy your spot on from Costco. Half the price |  |
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| Vets on 13:18 - Mar 21 with 1452 views | swansmad |
| Vets on 13:04 - Mar 21 by waynekerr55 |
As the Mrs was in Swansea until 3 years ago we used afon. They aren't bad, although I wasn't too impressed with the stitching on my lab when she was speyed.
When I'm back I stock up on milbemax as our vet doesn't stock it and its twice the price in another place.
Money saving tip - buy your spot on from Costco. Half the price |
A vet lives a couple of doors up from us and he leaves his dogs run wild along our estate fouling and entering neighbours property without a care in the world. Neighbours have approached him about it and he turns a blind eye...... Unbelieavable! | | | |
| Vets on 13:31 - Mar 21 with 1448 views | max936 |
| Vets on 12:24 - Mar 21 by Tycoch_Tyrant |
No problem. Giving metacam as and when you think he is a bit painful is certainly an option… I would advise some caution though, particularly if there is more than one of you who does the caring for your dog. Remember that it is once a day, after food - I have seen it happen before where a dog is overdosed just because a couple of people in a house have the same thought and act without asking other's first… very easily done! If you do go for this strategy it's probably worth having a diary or something like that to keep track of how much is being given, and when.
Oils such as cod liver oil are another option, though perhaps more preventative than curative… but then they are pretty cheap so certainly worth a go. I understand with regards to tablets… I have no personal experience of yumove to know how palatable it is, and having a dog that hates being tableted can be a nightmare! Managing OA is very much a balance between what you can afford, what is good for the dog and what the dog will tolerate. Sure tablet 'X' might be great for him… but if it's a massive fight to get him to take it and he stops trusting you, it isn't really gonna work. However, it might be worth trying - particularly hidden in something really tasty - as an easy dog to tablet makes life easier generally… particularly if other health conditions crop up where a tablet is the only option. |
Cheers again, Im the only one that gives him treatment whenever he needs it and I can easily get him to take a tablet, he's as gentle as a lamb and will happily let me open his mouth and put tablet down the back of his mouth, Its just the tablet itself Im not happy about as it takes a few things to break it down, where as liquid meds are more easily absorbed or so Im lead to believe. | |
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| Vets on 17:49 - Mar 21 with 1434 views | Tycoch_Tyrant |
| Vets on 13:31 - Mar 21 by max936 |
Cheers again, Im the only one that gives him treatment whenever he needs it and I can easily get him to take a tablet, he's as gentle as a lamb and will happily let me open his mouth and put tablet down the back of his mouth, Its just the tablet itself Im not happy about as it takes a few things to break it down, where as liquid meds are more easily absorbed or so Im lead to believe. |
Hmm in my opinion you don't really have to worry about that. I can't comment on yumove specifically as I don't know it's precise formulation etc., but most tablets of all types (human and veterinary) are designed to break down at the rough location where they would be best absorbed - that location changing depending on active ingredient etc. A number of tablets/capsules for instance are designed to withstand the acidic environment of the stomach as the active ingredient would be denatured/degraded by the acid - that's why you might have been advised in the past not to break a tablet or open a capsule as it will lessen efficacy. That doesn't mean that the metacam oral solution is any less effective either - just that each has been designed specifically to work 'best', within reasonable variable limits. [Post edited 21 Mar 2015 17:50]
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| Vets on 18:14 - Mar 21 with 1420 views | Swanjack10 |
Vets deserve every penny they earn,they must have knowledge of all pets etc not like a doctor who studies the same body ,day in and out and most humans are c#nts anyway unlike animals. |  |
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| Vets on 11:01 - Mar 22 with 1382 views | Professor |
| Vets on 17:49 - Mar 21 by Tycoch_Tyrant |
Hmm in my opinion you don't really have to worry about that. I can't comment on yumove specifically as I don't know it's precise formulation etc., but most tablets of all types (human and veterinary) are designed to break down at the rough location where they would be best absorbed - that location changing depending on active ingredient etc. A number of tablets/capsules for instance are designed to withstand the acidic environment of the stomach as the active ingredient would be denatured/degraded by the acid - that's why you might have been advised in the past not to break a tablet or open a capsule as it will lessen efficacy. That doesn't mean that the metacam oral solution is any less effective either - just that each has been designed specifically to work 'best', within reasonable variable limits. [Post edited 21 Mar 2015 17:50]
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Indeed. This is the science of pharmaceutics . I was so hardit I gave up my pharmacy degree. Was the rightd decision in the end. | | | |
| Vets on 11:07 - Mar 22 with 1380 views | Professor |
| Vets on 14:18 - Mar 20 by Dyfnant |
This generation will see a basic re-nationalisation of GP services, it'll be driven by medics realising the risk/reward isn't worth it. |
I hope so. It has placed them in a similar position to pharmacists in running a business-though without being able to sell other products as a retail business. Putting GPs in the same position of vets in essence. I am sure this is the way the Tories wish to go with medical insurance and a reduction in income tax. Good for the rich of course. We have to hope, as you suggest, they do the right thing. | | | |
| Vets on 11:09 - Mar 22 with 1379 views | Professor |
| Vets on 18:14 - Mar 21 by Swanjack10 |
Vets deserve every penny they earn,they must have knowledge of all pets etc not like a doctor who studies the same body ,day in and out and most humans are c#nts anyway unlike animals. |
Has the highest suicide rate of all professions too. | | | |
| Vets on 12:46 - Mar 22 with 1350 views | Swanjack10 |
| Vets on 11:09 - Mar 22 by Professor |
Has the highest suicide rate of all professions too. |
Get fukt you thick soppy tw at.explain to me why ? | |
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| Vets on 13:00 - Mar 22 with 1344 views | Professor |
| Vets on 12:46 - Mar 22 by Swanjack10 |
Get fukt you thick soppy tw at.explain to me why ? |
Two main reasons:
1. Newly qualified vets often live 'above the shop' and cover much out-of-hours work. This sis particularly the case in rural mixed and farm animal practice. Can be lonely and often problems with depression
2. Access to pentabarbitone-euthatal. The main drug to 'put to sleep' animals humanely.
Add them together you may know why.
And by the way I am a professor in a Vet school so may have some insight into this. | | | |
| Vets on 13:05 - Mar 22 with 1339 views | Swanjack10 |
| Vets on 13:00 - Mar 22 by Professor |
Two main reasons:
1. Newly qualified vets often live 'above the shop' and cover much out-of-hours work. This sis particularly the case in rural mixed and farm animal practice. Can be lonely and often problems with depression
2. Access to pentabarbitone-euthatal. The main drug to 'put to sleep' animals humanely.
Add them together you may know why.
And by the way I am a professor in a Vet school so may have some insight into this. |
Fair answer,excuse my language as im an animal lover,but try my job,theres good and bad points to every occupation. | |
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| Vets on 13:10 - Mar 22 with 1335 views | Professor |
| Vets on 13:05 - Mar 22 by Swanjack10 |
Fair answer,excuse my language as im an animal lover,but try my job,theres good and bad points to every occupation. |
This is true. I am lucky to do what I do, but was a struggle to get here. Vet students go in expecting to help animals and be like these TV shows. The reality is repetitive and boring work much of the time and not what they expected. We go at great lengths to tell them the reality now. | | | |
| Vets on 13:15 - Mar 22 with 1332 views | exiledclaseboy |
Has anyone seen "The Supervet" on C4? The bloke seems to be a remarkable genius. |  |
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| Vets on 14:17 - Mar 22 with 1314 views | waynekerr55 |
| Vets on 13:15 - Mar 22 by exiledclaseboy |
Has anyone seen "The Supervet" on C4? The bloke seems to be a remarkable genius. |
Unreal programme. Shame on the last one that dandie the 6 month old German Shepard had to be put to sleep as all 4 of his legs had packed in 😧 | |
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| Vets on 15:54 - Mar 22 with 1302 views | Tycoch_Tyrant |
| Vets on 13:15 - Mar 22 by exiledclaseboy |
Has anyone seen "The Supervet" on C4? The bloke seems to be a remarkable genius. |
A remarkable genius who is probably the best high profile example of the schizophrenic nature of veterinary practice. He is currently enjoying great success, but is actually a highly controversial figure within the veterinary profession. Why? Because he pushes boundaries beyond what many would consider to be appropriate animal welfare… amazing yes, but right? Debatable.
Add to this the fact that his organisation is becoming somewhat infamous for being a place the 'mad' work. He places himself on permanent on call and is known for deciding to do orthopaedic surgeries in the middle of the night. There are few true 'need to do now' orthopaedic ops, but he will… and he expects his staff to be just as committed. In short, he extends the public perception that every vet is available 24/7 for everything which actually is already true… but he takes it to a whole new extreme. | | | |
| Vets on 16:19 - Mar 22 with 1290 views | Tycoch_Tyrant |
| Vets on 13:05 - Mar 22 by Swanjack10 |
Fair answer,excuse my language as im an animal lover,but try my job,theres good and bad points to every occupation. |
This is true - but not many jobs have the access and the knowledge of 'what would do the job' that being a vet has. There is also the fact that vets by nature have to be far more comfortable with the concept of euthanasia than most. Euthanasia literally means 'good death', and when you carry out these 'good deaths' every day, they start to appear more like a viable option if you are struggling a bit.
I think another factor is that becoming a vet is extremely competitive and generally, those who make it haven't experienced failure before. Unfortunately, being a vet is facing failure every day - things die regardless of what you can do about it… this can be hard to adjust to. Doctors encounter a similar paradox, though they are a bit more sheltered from 'direct failure' by the career structure until they have been in the profession for a number of years… a vet can be on their first night on the job and face a life-death situation where their actions alone will mean the difference between success and failure. Of course there is the argument that an animal's life is worth less than a human's… which is logically true; however, the concept of 'it's only a dog' isn't actually a concept which emotionally or practically features in the mindset of a veterinary surgeon. We feel failure just as hard.
Happy Sundays! :) | | | |
| Vets on 17:11 - Mar 22 with 1277 views | Professor |
| Vets on 16:19 - Mar 22 by Tycoch_Tyrant |
This is true - but not many jobs have the access and the knowledge of 'what would do the job' that being a vet has. There is also the fact that vets by nature have to be far more comfortable with the concept of euthanasia than most. Euthanasia literally means 'good death', and when you carry out these 'good deaths' every day, they start to appear more like a viable option if you are struggling a bit.
I think another factor is that becoming a vet is extremely competitive and generally, those who make it haven't experienced failure before. Unfortunately, being a vet is facing failure every day - things die regardless of what you can do about it… this can be hard to adjust to. Doctors encounter a similar paradox, though they are a bit more sheltered from 'direct failure' by the career structure until they have been in the profession for a number of years… a vet can be on their first night on the job and face a life-death situation where their actions alone will mean the difference between success and failure. Of course there is the argument that an animal's life is worth less than a human's… which is logically true; however, the concept of 'it's only a dog' isn't actually a concept which emotionally or practically features in the mindset of a veterinary surgeon. We feel failure just as hard.
Happy Sundays! :) |
It is interesting we are seeing more vets wanting to come back to study for a PhD than any time I have worked in the vet school. I think the reasons above are a major driver for this, and perhaps the realisation that you don!t need to be in practice to help animal health and welfare. It really is chance I ended up working on animal disease, but after 18 years in he field I'm kind of stuck now! | | | |
| Vets on 17:13 - Mar 22 with 1276 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Vets on 15:54 - Mar 22 by Tycoch_Tyrant |
A remarkable genius who is probably the best high profile example of the schizophrenic nature of veterinary practice. He is currently enjoying great success, but is actually a highly controversial figure within the veterinary profession. Why? Because he pushes boundaries beyond what many would consider to be appropriate animal welfare… amazing yes, but right? Debatable.
Add to this the fact that his organisation is becoming somewhat infamous for being a place the 'mad' work. He places himself on permanent on call and is known for deciding to do orthopaedic surgeries in the middle of the night. There are few true 'need to do now' orthopaedic ops, but he will… and he expects his staff to be just as committed. In short, he extends the public perception that every vet is available 24/7 for everything which actually is already true… but he takes it to a whole new extreme. |
An interesting insight, thanks.
Anyway, we've used Tawe vets in Sketty for our mutt for about eight of his current nine years and they've always been brilliant with him and us. If anyone's looking for a vet, I'd highly recommend this one. | |
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