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Reply | The Southport attack and Starmer
at 20:45 25 Jan 2025
If by "in the eyes of the law" you mean in the opinion of the trial judge, then yes. But what I had in mind is the range of motivated behaviour covered by the legislation. My point was that there was a path to an offence under the 2000 Act that does not not involve a political, ideological or religious motive. With the right evidence, a charge could have been made in respect of a racial "cause" under the provision added in 2009. This is an evidential matter concerning motivation, rather than a question of what the Act ("the law") covers. If the motivation discovered falls into any one of the four categories in s1(1)c then terrorism may have been involved. The CPS guidance on charging under the Terrorist Act, 2000 indicates that "cause" (the wording of the Act) can be construed as motivation. I accept that no clear evidence of a racial motivation has been reported in statements from the key stakeholders, but if such evidence had been found then Rudakabana could have been charged under the provisions of the Act. The idea that any evidence discovered about a racial aspect would certainly have been reported seems to me to be too kind to the authorities, whom we know from past cases may prefer to frame events in one way rather than another.. That is why I felt your earlier posts may have framed the range of motivational possibilities too narrowly. Personally, I still believe that Rudakabana may have been motivated by resentment based on his experiences with a majority population that he perceived as racially different from him. It seems to me that it is appropriate for the Inquiry to consider that possibility, irrespective of the charge that led to imprisonment. I still think there is a debate to be had about whether the Southport killings were a form of terrorism. |
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Reply | All this Budget Speculation
at 14:26 25 Jan 2025
Yep, that misguided talk from some about adults now being in the room keeps coming back to me. Sixth formers may indeed be more accurate. |
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Reply | Norwich City v Swansea City : Mach day thread
at 13:27 25 Jan 2025
Deja vu really; lots of possession but inability to convert chances and a mistake in us at the back. I suppose some will say we have been unlucky on the balance of play, but the same pattern seems to be repeated most weeks. |
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Reply | Number of Welsh-speakers lowest in eight years
at 08:47 25 Jan 2025
I can understand the wish to maintain the use of the Welsh language for those who wish to speak it. My concern is that the legal requirement for certain organisations to comply with the Welsh Language Standards causes major inconvenience and costs, so that things have gone too far.
To take one example in an organisation known to me, all emails sent to more than one person (except where the language of all is known not to be Welsh) should be bilingual in Welsh and English. All official emails come around with the Welsh version first, and I often wonder how much time the English-speaking majority spend in scrolling down before they can understand what the message is about, Should an English language monoglot employee wish to send an email to multiple colleagues, for instance to notify others of a forthcoming event, they must send the message to the translation unit, which requires several days notice.
More generally all service users have a right to conduct their dealings with the organisation in Welsh. As most employees do not speak Welsh this again means that they must be assisted by a specialist unit when this need arises. If over a short period a larger number of service users insisted that all communication did take place in Welsh then the organisation would have nowhere near the capacity to deliver that. You might very well say that the answer at that stage would be to employ more Welsh speakers to cope with the demand, but as the organisation contains employees with various types of specialist expertise, I cannot see that this would be possible., [Post edited 25 Jan 9:54]
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Reply | The Southport attack and Starmer
at 06:10 25 Jan 2025
Yes, I had set out of the relevant provisions of the Terrorism Act 2000 and am aware that multiple conditions need to be realised for a terrorist offense to be deemed to have occurred. However, the four categories of terrorist actions that I was referring to (from section 1(1)c) are those that advance a political, religious, racial or ideological cause. So the scenario I am suggesting involves serious violence (1(1)a as per subsection 2), against a section of the public (1(1)b) to advance a racial cause (1(1)c). You say that the authorities, plus "every man and his dog" , will have fully investigated a possible racial aspect. I say that that is by no means evident to me, especially given that multiple sceptical commentators are arguing that this is the possibility the powers that be are desperate to play down.
Suppose, for instance, that a black person who perceives that his life has been blighted by racism develops a strong dislike to the white society that he blames for this, and decides to seek revenge against "a section of the public" with that racial identity. The serious violence in this case was directed at a general category of persons rather than individuals known to Rudakabana. Wouldn't an attack on a room full of white girls and the preparation of ricin for a possible multiple casualty event be prima facie evidence of antagonism towards that white society? And doesn't that make it necessary to take a hard look at what Rudakabana may have said to various people in his life? Perhaps that has happened, but the focus so far seems to have been on the apparent ideological inconsistency of somebody who looks at both an Al Qaeda manual and school massacres. The 2008 Act makes it clear that a racial motivation may lead to a terrorist offence even if an ideological or political dimension is absent. The judge, as you say, decided that the conditions for a terrorist act had not been met, but he made that judgement on the basis of the evidence before him. I think the inquiry should drill down and gather more evidence that would determine whether there was a racial motive. [Post edited 25 Jan 6:38]
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Reply | The Southport attack and Starmer
at 22:11 24 Jan 2025
Perhaps, but one senses that it is the possibility that the authorities are most loath to foreground. Even in this thread the tendency is to miss that fourth category from the definition of terrorism in the legislation. |
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Reply | The Southport attack and Starmer
at 19:11 24 Jan 2025
Terrorism Act, 2000
1 (1) In this Act “terrorism” means the use or threat of action where—
(a)the action falls within subsection (2),
(b)the use or threat is designed to influence the government [F1or an international governmental organisation] or to intimidate the public or a section of the public, and
(c) the use or threat is made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious [F2, racial] or ideological cause.
F2. Words in s. 1(1)(c) inserted (16.2.2009) by Counter-Terrorism Act 2008 (c. 28), ss. 75(1)(2)(a), 100(5) (with s. 101(2)); S.I. 2009/58, art. 2(a)
____________________
The aspect of the definition that interests me is the addition of the racial dimension in the 2009 amendment. The change in the definition in s75 of the 2008 Act was intended to indicate that acts carried out with a racial motivation did not need to be associated with an ideological or political aim to be considered to be terrorism.
The explanatory note says: “Section 75 gives effect to Lord Carlile’s 12th recommendation in his January 2007 report on the definition of terrorism. This was that the definition of terrorism in section 1(1) of the 2000 Act be amended to include, in paragraph (c), the purpose of advancing a racial cause (in addition to a political, religious or ideological cause). Although a racial cause will in most cases be subsumed within a political or ideological cause this amendment is designed to put the matter beyond doubt that such a cause is included”.
Now, I am not sure this would apply to this case, but I wonder if the racial aspect has been fully investigated. Radakubana appears to have had a grudge against his former school and beyond that against the wider society, possibly because of his past negative experiences. Did his actions reveal antagonism towards white people? |
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Reply | Iraq loses the age of consent to NINE
at 12:49 24 Jan 2025
It was just that in light of your earlier post, you might have noticed the bit about '”cultural racism” stretches the concept of racism "to a point where it becomes too wide to be useful as anything but a rhetorical ploy" '. |
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Reply | Iraq loses the age of consent to NINE
at 09:22 24 Jan 2025
Cultural racism is a highly-contested concept that in most versions applies to a situation where cultural differences are viewed by a majority population as essential and immutable, meaning that an ethnic minority group that suffers discrimination is seen as unable to change its problematic culture. Of course, the majority of academics working in cultural studies view cultures as fluid and ever-changing. From the left, several academics writing about racism have criticised the concept of cultural racism because they believe that “racism” should centre on the notion of perceived biological difference. After all cultural differences exist within (socially-constructed) racial groups as well as between them. Rattansi, for instance, says that ”cultural racism” stretches the concept of racism "to a point where it becomes too wide to be useful as anything but a rhetorical ploy" (1st link below). Others who reject the concept believe that discrimination based on culture is a different phenomenon that needs to be analysed in its own terms (2nd link below). The idea of cultural racism emerged mainly in France in response to the rise of far right discourses about immigration there, although we also had a professor at Aberystwyth who pushed a similar line; it has not really caught on among the critical race theory fraternity in the US.
https://archive.org/details/racismveryshorti0000ratt/page/n3/mode/2up
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267513585_Siebers_H_and_Dennissen_MHJ_2
Of course, not everybody will be interested in this kind of stuff. [Post edited 24 Jan 9:24]
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Reply | Iraq loses the age of consent to NINE
at 22:41 23 Jan 2025
There is a difference between how people react to those they perceive to be members of another race (possible racism), and those who have a different culture, but I'm afraid that is lost on Contro. Of course, there is a pattern here across many topics. |
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Reply | The Southport attack and Starmer
at 22:25 23 Jan 2025
Yes, that is what I thought. There was a weapon in the sitting room, plus lots of dodgy material, Also the general state of the house did not match the picture of the respectable, middle class, God-fearing family previously portrayed by the mainstream media. I see on X/ Twitter that posters are zeroing in on the father's previous life in one of the feuding Rwanda militias, his asylum claim (and which lawyers were involved), and the relocation of the family to a secret address at considerable taxpayer expense. The family's arrival in the UK doesn't seem to have been exactly positive in terms of outcomes. [Post edited 23 Jan 22:45]
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Reply | The Southport attack and Starmer
at 17:22 23 Jan 2025
Spot on. The Manchester Guardian was a quality newspaper, while today's offering is just a vehicle for activist journalists at the far end of woke. The newspaper has been on a downward trajectory for a long time now. I remember a well-known economics professor telling me 20 years ago that he no longer looked there for an accurate account of what was happening in his sphere. Unfortunately the Independent has gone the same way. |
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Reply | We have too many...
at 17:15 23 Jan 2025
The reason many hospital staff give for the log-jam in A&E is the difficulty of moving patients into wards during times, such as winter, when a greater than usual number of people fall ill. They say it is a capacity problem. Of course, this has got worse as bed numbers have not keep up with population growth, meaning that it is not just a winter problem these days.
The Welsh population is now about 3.330,000 and we have about 10,800 hospital beds available on average, That means we have about 3.2 beds per 1000 population. France has around 6 per 1000 and Germany nearly 8. The EU average is over 5. Admittedly, the general trend in Western countries is for a long-term reduction in beds, mainly because of changing technologies, but our numbers are right at the lower end of the range.
During his academic career Mark Drakeford never conducted empirical research on the NHS; his social work/social policy background is no substitute for that kind of expertise. |
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Reply | January Transfer Thread
at 13:53 23 Jan 2025
The story about Swansea interest in Luke Cundle leaves me underwhelmed. I thought he was pretty anonymous during his previous loan spell with us. Wolves could well be in the Championship next year, and it seems they have concluded that he is not good enough for their team. |
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Reply | Iraq loses the age of consent to NINE
at 10:01 23 Jan 2025
Hard to escape the thought that when men who espouse a certain faith are found to have sexually abused 12 and 13 years olds that there is a connection to what senior clerics in that religion say about matters like the age of consent. |
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