What a disappointing night for Saints as they went out of the Europa League with a whimper not a bang.

For some reason this never felt like it was going to be one of those magical nights, back in the 1990's when we fought some epic relegation battles you sensed that the crowd was completely behind the team and would lift them to great things in certain games.

That feeling wasn't present when we took on Manchester United in the final game of 2005 and were relegated and it was not there last night when we took on Be'er Sheva.

With 20 minutes to go Saints were in command of the tie and heading for the last 32 but you could hear a pin drop in the ground at times, too many of the crowd seemed not to be there to roar the team on, but to pick on certain individuals.

I cant complain about the team that Claude Puel picked, yes I would have preferred to see Fonte in instead of Yoshida, but the Japanese defender did not let us down.

What cost us this European campaign was the sub standard teams that we put out in both Milan and Prague where we lost by a single goal where in both games we deserved at least a point.

If we had gained just one point from those two games then we would be through to the next round now.

Saints did not play well last night, but they did not play badly either, they attacked well but the issue was creating and taking chances and the longer we failed to score and the quieter the crowd go apart from moans and groans you sensed that the visitors were looking for the one decent chance they got.

When it came in the 78th minute they took it and from the reation of the crowd you would have thought that it was fatal, many standing up and leaving and others standing up and abusing.

We have come back from two down before, yes it was disappointing , but at that moment the team needed something to lift them and they did not get that from the crowd, there were 12 minutes of normal time left and you could assume at least 3 of injury time, if the crowd had rose as one and shown that they were behind their team then perhaps things could have been different.

It turned ot that they so nearly where, with half the crowd already out of the ground Virgil Van Dijk fired home, this inspired the die hards remaining who found their voices and Yoshida almost heaed home in the dying seconds to create one of those special nights.

But it was not to be and losing Charlie Austin in the first half did not help, Saints had plenty of opportunities but too rarely did they truly trouble the keeper and too often they got into good positions bt did not find the final ball or cross.

For the fans it was perhaps down to perception as to why we lost, they perceived that Josh Sims is the hero and his swashbuckling styl was driving us forward and they perceived that Nathan Redmond was terrible.

The truth is far different, Sims did not have a good game, too often he lost the ball and created problems for us with Be'er Sheva breaking and in the main he failed to beat his man and put a ball in.

Redmond on the other hand although not having a brilliant game, was good up to the point of delivery, he seemed to be able to take on and beat his man, but too often he too failed to deliver although he did have a decent effort on target in the first half that the keeper had to deal with and push round for a corner.

But the crowd perceived both players differently, Sims of course is very young and with little experience, his time will come and I don't want to make this about him, but it is important to emphasise that if sections of the crowd had perhaps concentrated more on cheering the team on insted of getting on Redmond's back, then it might not have changed the result, but it would have had a better chance of doing so.

This seems like the end of the World, it was hard to take, but we have to look at reality, we are still handily placed in the League, we are n the semi finals for the League Cup and this is as good a start to the season as last year.

There is stil a lot to play for, there is still a lot to be happy about, so do we as supporters want to see the team do well, or do we prefer to get on their backs and see the season peter out.

I know what I want and that is success and I know that supporting the team on the pitch gives us a better chance of achieving it than getting on their backs.

This is a set back, a big disappointing set back, but we still march on and we still have a lot to play for.

Photo: Action Images

darthvader added 12:00 - Dec 9 Very difficult to take .. the crowd wasn't to blame if the players and manager played in a more exciting way like the end of last season then the roar would have been deafening . Their one chance was well taken but from a mistake. We only started playing after they scored And someone tell me why there was a bunch of their fans in the itchen stand ? And how did they get in with that big flag ? It's a shame they didn't try that sh.it in block 1 or 2 at least it would have been exciting . Why weren't they in their own section ?

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Jesus_02 added 12:09 - Dec 9 Nick, your view from the dugout is clouded by your desire to become part of the workings of the club. At one point you aimed to be the voice of the fans, isn’t that what fanzines are? Now you refer to the fans as “they” and believe that “the truth is far different” We go to football to be entertained, to believe that dreams can become reality, supporters support Sims because “he is one of our own” and he is trying to make something happen. We like to see things happen at football matches. Redmond did not play football well because he is an attacker and he had too much of his mind on stopping things from happening. As for Yoshida. He did play well. I have defended him on many occasions. But the Fans support Jose because he has shown faith in us. He came down to L1 because he believed in our shared vision. He is our club captain and our leader. This was our arguably our most important game in recent history and we have turned up without our leader. The Fans need leaders too, it doesn’t even matter if Yoshida was better than Fonte. Sometimes you need to draw everyone together. This Nick, is called “team sprit”. Its very important in the game of football. Arguably even more important than soccernomics

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Jesus_02 added 12:10 - Dec 9 Nick, your view from the dugout is clouded by your desire to become part of the workings of the club. At one point you aimed to be the voice of the fans, isn’t that what fanzines are? Now you refer to the fans as “they” and believe that “the truth is far different” We go to football to be entertained, to believe that dreams can become reality, supporters support Sims because “he is one of our own” and he is trying to make something happen. We like to see things happen at football matches. Redmond did not play football well because he is an attacker and he had too much of his mind on stopping things from happening. As for Yoshida. He did play well. I have defended him on many occasions. But the Fans support Jose because he has shown faith in us. He came down to L1 because he believed in our shared vision. He is our club captain and our leader. This was our arguably our most important game in recent history and we have turned up without our leader. The Fans need leaders too, it doesn’t even matter if Yoshida was better than Fonte. Sometimes you need to draw everyone together. This Nick, is called “team sprit”. Its very important in the game of football. Arguably even more important than soccernomics

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Jesus_02 added 12:12 - Dec 9 Nick, your view from the dugout is clouded by your desire to become part of the workings of the club. At one point you aimed to be the voice of the fans, isn’t that what fanzines are? Now you refer to the fans as “they” and believe that “the truth is far different” We go to football to be entertained, to believe that dreams can become reality, supporters support Sims because “he is one of our own” and he is trying to make something happen. We like to see things happen at football matches. Redmond did not play football well because he is an attacker and he had too much of his mind on stopping things from happening. As for Yoshida. He did play well. I have defended him on many occasions. But the Fans support Jose because he has shown faith in us. He came down to L1 because he believed in our shared vision. He is our club captain and our leader. This was our arguably our most important game in recent history and we have turned up without our leader. The Fans need leaders too, it doesn’t even matter if Yoshida was better than Fonte. Sometimes you need to draw everyone together. This Nick, is called “team sprit”. Its very important in the game of football. Arguably even more important than soccernomics

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IanRC added 12:12 - Dec 9 I agree that we were better after Austin went off which is unusual. However as soon as I saw Redmond's name on the team sheet I feared the worst and so it proved. Yes Sims had a poor game by his recent standards but he at least has his relative inexperience on his side. I think Long may come good again so I am not giving up on goals in the near future but Redmond needs to improve dramatically. As regards the pathetic EL campaign if we cannot get more than a point in the last two games against very weak opposition we do not deserve to progress. To my mind this is down to the manager's poor selections. Yes there is a place for rotation and pushing youth but the last two games of the group stage are not it. Naive in the extreme from someone who is supposed to be an experienced European manager. Jose and Boufal and possibly Tadic should have started instead of Yoshida (although he did not have a bad game) Sims and Redmond. Dreadful performance by Puel.

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wibbersda added 12:34 - Dec 9 From a longtime, dedicated Saints Fan I say get out while you can VVD. This performance was abysmal and I don't know what is wrong with this team lately. How is it that every team we played get 1 chance and take it yet we cannot put away any of the many we create???
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ItchenNorth added 12:38 - Dec 9 I thought the atmosphere inside the stadium was decent for the first 78 minutes. It certainly was in the Itchen North Stand. The away fans were making a right racket and so were we. However……….what is always massively disappointing at home games is that many fans always just seem to give up and walked out. Yes the football was not great (again), yes we were a goal down and needed 2, but we managed to snatch a late equaliser and therefore; we needed everyone dragging the team kicking and screaming over the finish line. If you are someone who is pointing your finger at the Board or the manager or the players for their performance last night and were at the game: make sure your own house in order first. There no point bleating on about that there was a lack of this or we should have do that: if you didn’t stay to the end and back your team. Still need a striker in January !

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SanMarco added 12:48 - Dec 9 I did wonder how this woeful display would be spun in the verdict - blaming the crowd is one I didn't guess at. Not TUI editorial staff's finest moment. We played for a 0-0 at home against a side who would struggle in the Championship. We are in real trouble and the excuses are running thin. For the first time in my 50+ years of watching the Saints I don't understand what the manager is trying to do. We didn't like what Branfoot was trying to do but at least we understood it. I don't know what the solution is but those in charge need to accept that there is a big problem. Until last night I thought that although we were dull we were still just good enough. Now I am genuinely worried - if we are complacent in January we COULD go down. And blaming the crowd for a performance like that is beyond complacent - it is deranged.

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Whatsforpud added 12:55 - Dec 9 Consigliere has had the same idea as me. Stick VVD up front. He would demand that the ball is played to him. Could probably play anyway on the pitch.
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the_saint added 13:13 - Dec 9 Why do we try so hard to get into Europe and then play week sides,then when we play in the league put out a strong side to try and qualify for Europe. I go home and away and I have never been so bored of watching puels team, needs to change tactics. Can't blame strikers when they have no supply, and Simms did not have the best of games but he will learn Redmond has plenty of prem experience with us and Norwich so should be better all he is is a good championship player

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A1079 added 13:23 - Dec 9 Nick, I usually like your posts. I may not always see things the same way as you but I always feel you react with perspective and a sense of proportion, unlike me, who can react too quickly and not always balanced. I honestly feel you have got it wrong this time. I watched the game, admittedly from an armchair, and our performance was limp, lame, and just poor. I, not the commentators understood it. Our best chance to progress, wasted. It is not the first time this season either. Our play is dull, boring and lacks entertainment. Fans respond to what they see or hope. If you are playing poorly but showing effort then fans will still normally respond. I could not see us scoring in a month of sundays last night and that has been a defining aspect this season for many games. I am afraid I rest last nights performance and that of Prague, Hull and Crystal Palace at the door of the manager. His tactics are just not working. You could see it in the eyes of the players last night - they looked lost and bewildered. You cannot blame we do not have the players - other sides, supposedly without big names, are managing to score. I am afraid my patience with Puel is starting to run out. You used to say, that if you keep doing the same thing you end up with the outcome. Well, either Puel needs to change his tactics or the manager needs to change.

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ExiledSupporter added 13:32 - Dec 9 Ok, Nick, like the previous correspondents I disagree with most of your conclusions (for the reasons stated so trenchantly by others so won't repeat them now). But I do agree that the tendency to harshly treat Redmond is largely unjustified. I thought throughout that he was always the most likely to provide a goal assist because he does have the speed and skill to beat his markers, but there is need for a lot of improvement in when to make the final pass and how to do it - perhaps he doesn't play enough with his head up, but he has an excellent engine and spares no effort on our behalf. He will get better and I think that he is a sound investment, buiit we need patience and he needs encouragement (but not of the "new Thierry" type for the present!) I think Puel is to blame in some considerable measure for the situation, but certainly not wholly to blame, as follows. 1) his currently preferred system of 4-3-3 (not anylonger the midfield diamond which was much discussed earlier in the season) does not work for us. It doesn't make the most of the players that he inherited and it condemns us to having a midfield that lacks creativity. It forces his starting selection reeks of caution and thus handicaps an already malfunctioning attack because the midfielders carry no serious goal threat. 2) His policy of rotation has misfired on a number of occasions (esp. away from home and consistently in the Europa League) and has highlighted how in some respects the squad is stronger as you have consistently claimed, but also how in some areas of the pitch we have scant strength, most obviously amongst the forwards. Puel himself must bear responsibility for our notable unwillingness recently to press higher up the pitch; both Pochettino and to a lesser extent Koeman considered this to be a vital component, but now it seems at best optional since it threatens to pull a more limited and weaker midfield out of shape and more liable to counterattack. 3) Puel inherited a situation where we had already sold key players in Mane, Wanyama and Pelle, this was none of his doing, Although I have always been sceptical about Les Reed's contibutions I do not think these decisions are his, this has much more to do with the strategy of the board mandated by the owners. That is that we should survive financially as a selling club, that the current owner has put enough money into the club and is interested now in milking the 'cash cow' prior to selling the club perhaps to a Chinese buyer. 4. As your other correspondents have rightly said we have patently failed to replace any of the three departures in terms of immediately contributable quality (although I concede that Romeu has been an excellent replacemen despite last night's mistake). No comparable replacement for Pelle and Mane because the club decided to spend the money on other players assuming, as most supporters did not and knew better, that JRod, Charlie and Long would suffice - how foolish that now looks! And now we seem likely to sell Fonte ; it's been obvious for some time that Puel has expected this and has quite properly been at pains to develop Yoshida as his replacement (he didn't let us down in any way last night, by the way) and establish VVD as captain. Yet we still need a truly creative No.10 (and have done for some time) and its imperative that we get a strong, mobile and 'ready to go' striker. And under no circumstances sell VVD, who is as good as any centre back in Europe, just because we are offered a quick return from one or other of the larger clubs. I believe in the medium term futures at the club for Hojberg, Redmond and especially Boufal, but we urgently need class re-inforcements in key positions elsewhere...and they will now cost us considerably more than they would have done during the summer...truly a false saving there

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LeTissIwish added 13:34 - Dec 9 Forgive me Nick, I'm not going to waste 10 minutes debating semantics with you, your arguments in defence of Puell and our supposed 'strike force' are as full of holes as the Titanic was. Suffice to say, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE, Puell and Reed in particular have done the dirty on us. Tell me why Fonte didn't play last night except for the reason that he would have been cup tied for when he joins Utd in January. We are now one of the weaker teams and we won't be seeing a top six finish until we actually invest decent money in decent strikers.

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richsaints added 14:20 - Dec 9 The crowd had nothing to get behind no chances and misplaced passes it looks to me like the sell high buy low policy has finally run its course and now we are in a mess.Redmond is a bog standard championship player Hojberg is no better,Romeu,JWP were fringe players last and are now first choice but not good enough same with Austin,Long Sims looks an U23 in first team not his fault . Should we lose Sunday to boro which is possible on this showing then we are in relegation battle and I don't see too many warriors in the squad with January just round the corner if something happens with Fonte and van dyke then we are done and I wonder what that will do for Katharina,s valuation.

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halftimeorange added 14:42 - Dec 9 This whole European campaign has been a huge disappointment. A shattered dream for fans, for some of whom this will be a once in a lifetime opportunity to see our team play some big clubs from other countries. In fact, some of the players may never get another chance to play on such a stage. To see Saints go out with a whimper is simply dreadful and, despite some of the generous comments above, Nathan Redmond was truly awful last night and, it seemed to me, that every other player was to blame bar him. I thought he would develop into a decent player in a better side than Norwich could put out but, no, he has not and he has the air of being disruptive about him. As for the rest of the team they should hang their heads in collective shame. Sadly, Saints look as though they are ready to slide. It ain't looking good and it's difficult to be positive right now.

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Stripe added 14:55 - Dec 9 Two years ago no Europe, one year out of Europa League before group, this year out in group stages - can you a pattern of improvement. This year we have beaten Inter Milan and Arsenal away from home. Wait and see where we are this time next and judge. One last thing please, please turn off the histrionics.
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corkcitysaint added 14:57 - Dec 9 Like all of us, I'm totally gutted over the result and display. I can take defeat on the chin but it is the manner of the defeat that hurts the most. I do agree we only have ourselves to blame by it coming down to the last game. It's always going to be tight, nervy and cagey. Again, we concede a goal where the opposition has one attack!! Why can't we do that? We need 20 attempts!! I still find it hard to see how Forster could have been beaten at that angle. There didn't seem to be too much pace on the shot. What kills me is we showed no passion or belief at all. it was like a training ground game. Where was the attitude or willingness to "earn" the win? Far too stale and same old high possession % but nothing at all to show for it. We can pass it until the cows come home but what good is that without any end result?? No penetration in our play or movement. It's not only last night but for many matches this season. You could argue last night was pretty much our strongest side bar Fonte / Yoshida. So where do we go from here? I believe we at least need a Plan B in attack. Maybe some height?? Our forwards are basically all the same in terms of size and style of play. Of those, JRod is way off the pace, Austin now injured, Long is on a worst goal drought for 7 years, Redmond is well, Redmond.. No goals coming from midfield and no creativity of late. We badly need a spark and I hope this will come in the January transfer window.

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stmichael added 15:56 - Dec 9 Silly article Nick. Clearly you are just trying to challenge and entertain because if they are your thoughts then you are on your own. Last night is likely to be the last European game we will play in long time maybe a decade as it was before. We may even be too old to see it. Not acceptable to go out in that manner. Off the pitch we have royally messed up and we don't have the toos to get out of it.

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SaintPaulVW added 16:06 - Dec 9 I think it's all been said. Played too deep, technical tippy tappy stuff going nowhere, Redmond couldn't complete a pass( for whatever reason), Sims looked like the age he is, heck even Romeu was well off his usual best, Davis WardProwse Hjobjerg ineffectual. No effective cutting edge up front. It says something when you're CB's look your most potent strike force. As usual we spend all night with Banjos aiming at Cows Ars's, they get one chance and convert. Played crp, got a crp result. End of. Not too sure how much further we would have got had we won last night as we weren't exactly setting the group alive. Tho still gutted today. If we can get a good striker in January I think we had better because Long is clearly out of sorts andJRod must go out on loan. Year on year, we have progressed in the competition but I think we could have gone further. Time to dig deep and march on up the Prem league table.

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aceofthebase added 16:09 - Dec 9 Play VVD as the holding centre forward. Far better than Pelle and his tx value will double.
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leighsaint added 16:28 - Dec 9 I watched Ramirez playing for Boro last Sunday he was better than any of our midfielders and we let him go for free. Where is that logic?
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redandwhitedee added 16:29 - Dec 9 I do blame Puel's tactics for the performance last night (and to be honest most this season - many games go by with only a shot or two on target.. Swansea maybe the exception if i recall correctly..??) However, the treatment of Redmond is starting to remind me of how many people got on Puncheon's back. Redmond at least was always willing to receive the ball. Always willing to try to make something happen. He has no-one to cross it to anyway, so what would be the point in his end product. We only ever win maybe 5% of any crosses or freekicks into the box. Hojbjerg is not performing though. Very disappointing so far this season. Davis and Yoshida were both superb.

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SanMarco added 16:55 - Dec 9 I am not a Redmond fan but I agree with Exiled and redandwhitedee that he should not be made a scapegoat for problems that go far beyond the quality of one particular player. I am glad you think last night was progress Stripe. I see no histrionics - just reasoned criticism of a woeful performance and indignation that the crowd were blamed for it
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StRipper added 17:59 - Dec 9 I'm with ExiledSupporter on this one. I don't blame Puel, Reed, the Fans or the Players really. Our failings fall squarely at the door of the board and their obsessive efforts to squeeze every penny out of the fans and player sales based on an assumption that we will keep coughing up and they can keep dipping their hand into the player sales cookie jar. Now the price is clear to see. Reed and our manager can't realistically keep pulling rabbits out of hats. This season has been wasted because of a refusal to fund attacking reinforcements. Over to you Gareth Rogers. Your drive for profits has killed team momentum, our ability to score and most importantly the pleasure of going to matches for fans. I'm having to cut my financial cloth to fit my means, and sadly I have no problem in cutting out the exorbitant cost of going to live matches accordingly

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pintsizedsaint added 18:14 - Dec 9 I'm sorry but to all the comments on here slagging off Nick is just not welcome. Disagreement with what he has to say is fine, but the personal comments are not what this site is about. You want that type of thing, bugger off to the Daily Echo's website. Last night was a travesty. A team whose confidence was low following Palace. I said in a previous post that this should have been good experience of a high pressure game. Unfortunately the players buckled. People may say we should have played Fonte - and I agree - but clearly stuff has happened now. There are alarming similarities to when Wanyama went awol and we went out of the Europa last year. Actually though, defence was not the problem was it? I don't think we were playing for a 0-0. I think we were expecting the oppo to come at us hard (they had to score) and we would play counter attack. But it just didn't work out - with many players not performing at the level needed to do that. Bashing Redmond is wrong. He didn't play that bad but it seems he has become the pantomime villain for many (the new Guly?) and I suspect that is because he's seen as the Mane replacement and fans simply hated SFC's decision to sell him. I too don't think it's wise to infer that the fans contributed to this. We were just as nervous as the players given the on and off field issues we brought into this game. It needed a spark and that just didn't come. And the more it went on, the more you just felt they would score. Collectively that played a part. Where do we go from here? At least we don't have to worry about the congested fixtures anymore. Perhaps rotation can become a bit less frequent - so people can get a run. We do need another striker although I would recall Sam Gallagher in any event. We must keep VVD in January and either resolve Fonte or let him go so we can move on. It's really not all doom and gloom though. I think Puel is a thoughtful and genuinely adept manager. It's his first season and even Pottychino and Koeman needed time to make their mark. It hurts now but that doesn't mean we can't move on. If we beat Liverpool in the EFL semis then all of this will be quickly forgotten!

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