| Man City 21:00 - Sep 12 with 9304 views | ted_hendrix |
In court Monday, 115 charges for allegedly breaking the financial rules.
Hmm well we'll see. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Man City on 10:04 - Sep 13 with 2937 views | ted_hendrix |
Taken from a news feed this morning;
**The case involves an unprecedented catalogue of 115 allegations spread over 14 seasons, including multiple charges of subverting the regulations by failing to provide accurate financial information.**
Get out of that one then.
I'm sceptical | |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Man City on 10:06 - Sep 13 with 2903 views | daveB |
| Man City on 09:19 - Sep 13 by GaryHaddock |
That isn’t what we have now, Man City survive on director / owner loans which wouldn’t be allowed |
but the teams with the most revenue stay at the top, you can't have a club like Sunderland, Newcastle, QPR or anyone outside that top 6 get ideas above their station and try and win something |  | | |
| Man City on 10:16 - Sep 13 with 2837 views | lassel |
| Man City on 09:20 - Sep 13 by bosh67 |
Nothing will happen and Man City's lawyers will tie them up in knots and if they get close to anything the lawyers will launch some kind of counter suit for wrongful allegations and that will dwarf anything being thrown at them. So, in a nutshell, nothing will happen. |
The PL have Adam Lewis from Blackstone Chambers (same chambers as Nick De Marco), it’s not like they have Lionel Hutz on the case.
If the charges aren’t upheld it’s because the PL didn’t have the evidence, not because City had better lawyers. |  | | |
| Man City on 10:19 - Sep 13 with 2810 views | Juzzie |
There are so many ways this could end but whichever way it does, it just feels to me they'll come up smelling of roses. |  | | |
| Man City on 10:20 - Sep 13 with 2811 views | GaryHaddock |
| Man City on 10:06 - Sep 13 by daveB |
but the teams with the most revenue stay at the top, you can't have a club like Sunderland, Newcastle, QPR or anyone outside that top 6 get ideas above their station and try and win something |
Well, the status quo is, Man City currently outspending us by about 1100%
Going by attendance alone, the rules I’m proposing would mean they could only outspend us by about 300% (based on average attendance).
I don’t begrudge clubs with bigger gates that sell more shirts outspending us to be honest as it’s a football related income.
Clubs should be rewarded for garnering more supporters or producing the most footballers, not the biggest personal wealth reserves or access to sponsorship. [Post edited 13 Sep 10:23]
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| Man City on 10:26 - Sep 13 with 2775 views | terryb |
| Man City on 09:19 - Sep 13 by GaryHaddock |
That isn’t what we have now, Man City survive on director / owner loans which wouldn’t be allowed |
If I'm interpreting this correctly & director/owner loans loans were stopped, that would be the end of Queens Park Rangers & many other football clubs. Probably many clubs in other sports could go under as well.
The difference between now & in the past is that you can only "loan" into the club whereas you used to present the club with those amounts. | | | |
| Man City on 10:42 - Sep 13 with 2736 views | lassel |
| Man City on 07:50 - Sep 13 by Northernr |
They'll bury them in paper and the best lawyers in the world. Did a I read they've submitted a million documents into discovery? Good luck with that.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
The reason it’s taken 2 years to come to tribunal is the volume of discovery City provided. The PL have Adam Lewis the best in the business overseeing from their side, they’ll not be beaten by ‘better lawyers’.
Their bigger issue is that the main issues they’re investigating - Etihad and Etisalat sponsorships - were already discussed at CAS and ruled to be perfectly fine.
The other issues - Mancini’s ‘second contract’ and Image Rights - were not discussed in depth at CAS as UEFA weren’t interested in them.
The word has been that the PL has tried several times in the past year to agree a settlement and City told them to get fcked and put their cards on the table - let’s see if that turns out to be true or not.
Either way the PL is fcked, if they win then their most successful team of the past decade has been cheating, and if they lose then they’ve gone for their most successful team of recent times and embarrassed themselves. | | | |
| Man City on 10:49 - Sep 13 with 2712 views | qprninja |
They're not going to shoot the cash cow are they? The rules are there to protect the big boys and keep the little upstarts in their place, apparently. |  | | |
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| Man City on 11:18 - Sep 13 with 2615 views | stantheman10 |
| Man City on 09:19 - Sep 13 by GaryHaddock |
That isn’t what we have now, Man City survive on director / owner loans which wouldn’t be allowed |
Man City made an £80 million profit last year. Theie turnover was £800 million plus. | | | |
| Man City on 11:22 - Sep 13 with 2595 views | stantheman10 |
| Man City on 10:42 - Sep 13 by lassel |
The reason it’s taken 2 years to come to tribunal is the volume of discovery City provided. The PL have Adam Lewis the best in the business overseeing from their side, they’ll not be beaten by ‘better lawyers’.
Their bigger issue is that the main issues they’re investigating - Etihad and Etisalat sponsorships - were already discussed at CAS and ruled to be perfectly fine.
The other issues - Mancini’s ‘second contract’ and Image Rights - were not discussed in depth at CAS as UEFA weren’t interested in them.
The word has been that the PL has tried several times in the past year to agree a settlement and City told them to get fcked and put their cards on the table - let’s see if that turns out to be true or not.
Either way the PL is fcked, if they win then their most successful team of the past decade has been cheating, and if they lose then they’ve gone for their most successful team of recent times and embarrassed themselves. |
If City win how have they been cheating? | | | |
| Man City on 11:30 - Sep 13 with 2567 views | lassel |
| Man City on 11:22 - Sep 13 by stantheman10 |
If City win how have they been cheating? |
I said if the PL win it looks horrible for them that their most successful club of recent times has been cheating. If the PL lose it looks horrible that they’ve come for their most successful club of recent times and a tribunal says they didn’t have the evidence to do that.
Either scenario shows a need for systematic change within the PL and crucially justifies the Government regulator they’re desperately trying to avoid. | | | |
| Man City on 12:01 - Sep 13 with 2502 views | daveB |
| Man City on 10:20 - Sep 13 by GaryHaddock |
Well, the status quo is, Man City currently outspending us by about 1100%
Going by attendance alone, the rules I’m proposing would mean they could only outspend us by about 300% (based on average attendance).
I don’t begrudge clubs with bigger gates that sell more shirts outspending us to be honest as it’s a football related income.
Clubs should be rewarded for garnering more supporters or producing the most footballers, not the biggest personal wealth reserves or access to sponsorship. [Post edited 13 Sep 10:23]
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If we got taken over by a mad billionaire who wanted to spend the same as City then under the current rules he/she can't do that at QPR
You only get to that level of income by spending fortunes to start with, it's how Chelsea, City, Spurs, Man Utd, Arsenal etc got into that position
All these rules do is keep the status quo and is part of why many fans see no point in going to the prem as we won't be allowed to do anything other than finish in the bottom 6 [Post edited 13 Sep 12:01]
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| Man City on 13:33 - Sep 13 with 2333 views | Juzzie |
FFP came into place 2011/2012 just when all the big clubs (spurs....snigger) were pretty much in a position of magnitude.
Funny that...... | | | |
| Man City on 13:48 - Sep 13 with 2292 views | lassel |
| Man City on 09:19 - Sep 13 by GaryHaddock |
That isn’t what we have now, Man City survive on director / owner loans which wouldn’t be allowed |
Man City have been profitable for a decade now.
They’re also no longer owned exclusively by Sheikh Mansour, around 30% of City and their group of clubs was sold to Silver Lake Capital (worlds 11th largest fund) and the Chinese Government. | | | |
| Man City on 13:50 - Sep 13 with 2268 views | Juzzie |
| Man City on 13:48 - Sep 13 by lassel |
Man City have been profitable for a decade now.
They’re also no longer owned exclusively by Sheikh Mansour, around 30% of City and their group of clubs was sold to Silver Lake Capital (worlds 11th largest fund) and the Chinese Government. |
Profitable because they sponsored the broom cupboard for £100m a season.
Being profitable is one thing, breaking the rules to be profitable is another matter. | | | |
| Man City on 14:16 - Sep 13 with 2189 views | lassel |
| Man City on 13:50 - Sep 13 by Juzzie |
Profitable because they sponsored the broom cupboard for £100m a season.
Being profitable is one thing, breaking the rules to be profitable is another matter. |
It’s a nonsense claim though, not least because the PL have rules against Associated Party Transactions that they’ve taken to tribunal as they say the PL unfairly impact them. Their biggest sponsorship deal is Puma for kits, and still less than Arsenal or United get…
They’re profitable because they keep winning trophies. | | | |
| Man City on 16:13 - Sep 13 with 2048 views | 100percent |
from the outset, it almost feels like a case within a case.
The PL have to be seen to be taking action, therefore bring charges etc.
MC have to defend their corner, justifying their expenditure, exploitation of sponsor loopholes, extra player payments etc.
That's the public facing scenario.
behind closed doors, the case within a case will be about how they both compromise on all of the charges.
The PL cannot afford to be seen not taking action - but similarly they cannot over punish one of their jewels in the financial crown. Also, if MC are indeed guilty, it will open a door to a whole host of other teams taking legal action against the manner they have been treated previously and the financial impact it has had over the period of those 14 years.
MC will hold their ground - they have very deep pockets and consider their selves to be one of the major clubs in the Premier League - if not the world - and above criticism. They won't give in lightly - in fact will refuse to. This is a global money making machine that advertising the gateway to the middle east.
Hence the real case IMHO will not be about one side winning and one losing - it will be about negotiating a compromise that pleases both parties. No wonder its being played out behind strictly closed doors.
Ugly and cynical - fat purses for the legal teams. Nothing will change as a result.
Urrrrggghhh...... |  | | |
| Man City on 17:02 - Sep 13 with 1968 views | derbyhoop |
| Man City on 09:59 - Sep 13 by slmrstid |
Its not related to over spending and owners spending what they want though - this seems to be a real common misconception.
A lot of the charges, and most serious, relate to over inflating income from spurious sponsorship with connected companies, and paying managers/players through different bodies, Mancini being the most well publicised.
I'm sure Nico knows a hell of a lot more of the detail than any of us, and its all a lot more complex than my very simple statement above, but this is a fraud case, not simply "spending what they want" which is what Manchester City would no doubt like everyone to think what it is to keep people on their side. |
That summary is broadly in.line with BBC Sports report yesterday.
Enquiry is likely to last 10 weeks minimum.
Punishment could be massive fine (big deal!) or a points deduction. |  |
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| Man City on 18:08 - Sep 13 with 1903 views | Juzzie |
| Man City on 14:16 - Sep 13 by lassel |
It’s a nonsense claim though, not least because the PL have rules against Associated Party Transactions that they’ve taken to tribunal as they say the PL unfairly impact them. Their biggest sponsorship deal is Puma for kits, and still less than Arsenal or United get…
They’re profitable because they keep winning trophies. |
As slmrstid has said above, "Its not related to over spending and owners spending what they want though - this seems to be a real common misconception.
A lot of the charges, and most serious, relate to over inflating income from spurious sponsorship with connected companies, and paying managers/players through different bodies, Mancini being the most well publicised."
I don't think it's a nonsense claim. Sponsorship deals have to be reasonable and it appears theirs weren't, hence my £100m for the broom cupboard analogy.
It's certainly going to be an interesting couple of months but I still think City will have a very happy Christmas. | | | |
| Man City on 18:37 - Sep 13 with 1858 views | stowmarketrange |
| Man City on 02:21 - Sep 13 by numptydumpty |
I look forward to seeing De Bruyne, Foden and Stone playing in National League North.
Anyhow that is about the minimum that should happen... |
I can see them play at Needham Market if they do. |  | | |
| Man City on 18:45 - Sep 13 with 1837 views | Boston |
| Man City on 18:37 - Sep 13 by stowmarketrange |
I can see them play at Needham Market if they do. |
Where they'll be paid the market rate. | |
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| Man City on 12:40 - Sep 14 with 1504 views | charmr |
Got some nerve that Pep bloke piping up about how other clubs want to see them punished.
A club now stained by Money and arrogance | | | |
| Man City on 16:00 - Sep 14 with 1382 views | themodfather |
after the foxes got away with theirs i am doubtful any meaningful punishment will happen in this man city case. they will buy their way out of it. for me at least the prem league could give a 5pt deduction pending outcome? | | | |
| Man City on 18:51 - Sep 14 with 1226 views | davman |
What do people actually think they should get as a punishment?
Big Fine - so bloody what; the people with the deep pockets criticised for "spending too much" won't actually give two hoots about a "big" fine smaller than the one metered out to QPR 6 or so years ago.
Relegation - REALLY? Why would that be fair on any of the lower leagues as that would be one less promotion spot up for grabs. In any case, you can GUARANTEE that they will compensate for the "loss" of City by letting one team in the Prem stay up and only relegate two. They won't put any embargo on City, so for one season only, THE most expensive team ever assembled will, most likely break all sorts or records.
European Ban? Well, if they are breaking the PL rules as opposed to the UEFA ones, that won't work.
Transfer Embargo? Well, they tried to impose one of those on Scum and it never stuck - loopholes galore meaning that they'll be able to buy all the kids with potential up.
Points deductions? Well, whoopee f-in-do; they'll miss out on the title for one season only.
Force them to get that team with Jamie Pollock out of retirement and play them for one season?
Mandate an Oasis gig at half time for a whole season?
Liquidate the club?
Anything else?
We all know that the rules are there to protect them all. Liverpool spent their way out of Div 2 all those years ago and Man U under Fergie spent far more than any other team, but these rules weren't in place then, so these "empires" have all been built on overspending.
It is just bowlocks... |  |
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| Man City on 18:53 - Sep 14 with 1220 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
I am not educated enough to add to the financial side of this excellent thread .
However I did read that Haaland missed being the first player ever to score 3 hatricks in a row in the league and that is seriously impressive.
I hope his achievements can be seperated from the financial fraud being investigated or is it all connected because his teammates are the best money can buy |  | | |
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