| JoJo Gone 16:59 - Jun 19 with 23994 views | DubaiR |
Left the club. |  | | |  |
| JoJo Gone on 11:41 - Jun 20 with 2811 views | Burnleyhoop |
| JoJo Gone on 04:33 - Jun 20 by traininvain |
Surely it’s based upon what we’ve all seen during Ainsworth’s stint as manager. Midfield completely bypassed by direct football. We had a midfielder who didn’t complete a pass during 60 mins on the pitch.
[Post edited 20 Jun 2023 4:34]
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It wasn’t the time or place to be giving the ball to the likes of Dozzell or Iroegbunham, who would simply concede possession and put us back under pressure. Apart from Field, our midfield was near non existent for the second half of the season. Frankly, I would have hoofed it over their heads as well.
Ainsworth did what he had to do with an awful, demoralised squad of players that had little or no fight in them whatsoever. It might not be pretty next season, but we will no longer be a soft touch that rolls over to have its tummy tickled at the first sign of adversity. |  | | |
| JoJo Gone on 11:52 - Jun 20 with 2732 views | CateLeBonR |
| JoJo Gone on 11:27 - Jun 20 by Northernr |
Which is one of the more logical reasons why they've gone for him. Team needs rebuild, little money to do it, exactly as you say he's used to that. |
If there was ever a time for Harry Redknapp and Bondy-Bond on piano. This ain’t it! |  | | |
| JoJo Gone on 12:05 - Jun 20 with 2638 views | Sakura |
| JoJo Gone on 10:56 - Jun 20 by HanwellHoopster |
Haven't you just highlighted the exact problem Clive is talking about?
By your own calculations in 23/24 we can only lose £4.2m. That is going to be extremely hard for us to do, even with new TV money. So while we can technically get away with a £10m loss this year, we create a bigger rod for ourselves in 23/24.
Fundamentally, whichever way you look at it there is a very limited budget and we shouldn't be aiming to make the biggest loss we're allowed to each year, especially given that will just cause more pain down the road. [Post edited 20 Jun 2023 12:51]
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You are misunderstanding the numbers. We can have a £4.2m loss this season
As Simon Dorset explained the reasons for, to make that we need to achieve around £10m of savings on last years budget to this year
I have set out in my previous post how I see us getting there
I've given figures, would be nice to have the other side of the discussion articulating what figures they put on it rather than just saying "not much" without defining what £ amount they think that will be [Post edited 20 Jun 2023 12:05]
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| JoJo Gone on 12:11 - Jun 20 with 2638 views | E15Hoop |
| JoJo Gone on 22:26 - Jun 19 by Monkey_Roots |
No, I mean relentless. |
Which proves that you're blinkered, I would suggest - making you just as relentless, in your own "sweet" way. | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 12:14 - Jun 20 with 2626 views | E15Hoop |
| JoJo Gone on 10:56 - Jun 20 by robith |
No, I don't want hoofball! I want my centre backs pissballing about for 300 passes please |
Nice one, Robith  | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 12:20 - Jun 20 with 2589 views | E15Hoop |
| JoJo Gone on 19:13 - Jun 19 by Rangersw12 |
If Richard Dobson is all that why has he been at Wycombe for the last 10 years ? |
Security, loyalty, fulfillment, happiness, as mentioned by him in his "Goodbye" interview at Wycombe when first coming to us.
Also quite possibly a victim of the same sort of shortsighted thinking by Chief Execs and DoF's at other clubs that your barbed question reeks of. | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 12:33 - Jun 20 with 2533 views | 1JD |
| JoJo Gone on 11:41 - Jun 20 by Burnleyhoop |
It wasn’t the time or place to be giving the ball to the likes of Dozzell or Iroegbunham, who would simply concede possession and put us back under pressure. Apart from Field, our midfield was near non existent for the second half of the season. Frankly, I would have hoofed it over their heads as well.
Ainsworth did what he had to do with an awful, demoralised squad of players that had little or no fight in them whatsoever. It might not be pretty next season, but we will no longer be a soft touch that rolls over to have its tummy tickled at the first sign of adversity. |
Ainsworth didn’t do what he had to do. He had a choice. All managers have a choice. But he did what all of us tend to do, he deviated to a. what he knows, and b. what he is most comfortable with.
So there was virtually no chance he was going to come in and implement a historically different style to what he is used to... Even if he had joined us mid-table and 8 points clear of the drop zone… oh wait, he did!  | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 12:43 - Jun 20 with 2477 views | Monkey_Roots |
| JoJo Gone on 12:11 - Jun 20 by E15Hoop |
Which proves that you're blinkered, I would suggest - making you just as relentless, in your own "sweet" way. |
Blinkered how? |  | | |
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| JoJo Gone on 13:02 - Jun 20 with 2365 views | E15Hoop |
You're stuck in your own track. As soon as you see I've posted something, you're straight at my throat, regardless of the content of what I've written, or the context in which I've written it.
You're not interested in engaging in debate - you know what you think and you don't give a f*ck abouut the possibility of a different viewpoint.
And before you throw that one back at me, look at the vehemence of the viewpoints that i'm generally responding to. Maybe - just maybe - the strength of what i write is a direct result of the strength of the post I'm responding to - there's the balance I was talking about yesterday that you accused me of not having. | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 13:06 - Jun 20 with 2355 views | JordanFoster |
It's all getting a bit silly on here with the whole GA & 'Dobbo' love in, feels like you can't dare critique or say your opinion otherwise you're going to get hammered.
What did happen:
- Ainsworth did take over 8 points clear and got within inches of being relegated
- Him and 'Dobbo' had never really been taken seriously by clubs looking to replace their manager. That's fine, everyone needs a break.
- They do play a very long-ball game, again no problem, but you don't have to like it. Some didn't like Warbs' style and centre halves having 300 passes a game. I get it. The belief that he never had the opportunity to play better football, what he had 10 years? He could have reset at some point?
- We did get tonked 6-1 by one of the worst teams in the league and then lose 3-1 to another.
- the DOF has left after disagreements over targets (admittedly so we've been told), the ball playing centre half has been sent on his way.
If you can't look at all that, and the rest I CBA to type, and not slightly see why some fans are apprehensive over the season then its you with the blinkers on.
I really hope GA does smash it, because he will definitely have Loftus Road rocking if he gets it right, but let's not make out that anyone who sees it slightly different is a complete moron. | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 13:07 - Jun 20 with 2351 views | HanwellHoopster |
| JoJo Gone on 12:05 - Jun 20 by Sakura |
You are misunderstanding the numbers. We can have a £4.2m loss this season
As Simon Dorset explained the reasons for, to make that we need to achieve around £10m of savings on last years budget to this year
I have set out in my previous post how I see us getting there
I've given figures, would be nice to have the other side of the discussion articulating what figures they put on it rather than just saying "not much" without defining what £ amount they think that will be [Post edited 20 Jun 2023 12:05]
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I'm not sure I am, but please explain what I'm misunderstanding.
You've written that "23/24- we can lose £4.2m".
In the last reported accounts we lost £24m.
We hope that we got those losses down to £10m for the season just gone. Let's assume we did that by gates going up, some high earners off the books like Austin, Gray, Barbet etc (which feels hopeful to me but let's say we've done it).
To get that £10m loss down to £4m we have to trim the wage budget or get £6m in sales. It's hard to see where £6m in transfer sales is coming from, although I'll be delighted to be wrong on that, so we're back to trimming the wage budget, which has clearly started.
What am I missing or misunderstanding?
What I'd like to know is if the league are going to give clubs any leniency for the 21/22 accounts because of the COVID impact. That could be our saving grace, if we're happy to accept continuing to lose millions of pounds each year as saving grace... | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 13:18 - Jun 20 with 2313 views | robith |
| JoJo Gone on 13:06 - Jun 20 by JordanFoster |
It's all getting a bit silly on here with the whole GA & 'Dobbo' love in, feels like you can't dare critique or say your opinion otherwise you're going to get hammered.
What did happen:
- Ainsworth did take over 8 points clear and got within inches of being relegated
- Him and 'Dobbo' had never really been taken seriously by clubs looking to replace their manager. That's fine, everyone needs a break.
- They do play a very long-ball game, again no problem, but you don't have to like it. Some didn't like Warbs' style and centre halves having 300 passes a game. I get it. The belief that he never had the opportunity to play better football, what he had 10 years? He could have reset at some point?
- We did get tonked 6-1 by one of the worst teams in the league and then lose 3-1 to another.
- the DOF has left after disagreements over targets (admittedly so we've been told), the ball playing centre half has been sent on his way.
If you can't look at all that, and the rest I CBA to type, and not slightly see why some fans are apprehensive over the season then its you with the blinkers on.
I really hope GA does smash it, because he will definitely have Loftus Road rocking if he gets it right, but let's not make out that anyone who sees it slightly different is a complete moron. |
These days, they put you in jail, just for saying we hoof it, these days |  | | |
| JoJo Gone on 13:22 - Jun 20 with 2299 views | E15Hoop |
| JoJo Gone on 13:06 - Jun 20 by JordanFoster |
It's all getting a bit silly on here with the whole GA & 'Dobbo' love in, feels like you can't dare critique or say your opinion otherwise you're going to get hammered.
What did happen:
- Ainsworth did take over 8 points clear and got within inches of being relegated
- Him and 'Dobbo' had never really been taken seriously by clubs looking to replace their manager. That's fine, everyone needs a break.
- They do play a very long-ball game, again no problem, but you don't have to like it. Some didn't like Warbs' style and centre halves having 300 passes a game. I get it. The belief that he never had the opportunity to play better football, what he had 10 years? He could have reset at some point?
- We did get tonked 6-1 by one of the worst teams in the league and then lose 3-1 to another.
- the DOF has left after disagreements over targets (admittedly so we've been told), the ball playing centre half has been sent on his way.
If you can't look at all that, and the rest I CBA to type, and not slightly see why some fans are apprehensive over the season then its you with the blinkers on.
I really hope GA does smash it, because he will definitely have Loftus Road rocking if he gets it right, but let's not make out that anyone who sees it slightly different is a complete moron. |
Hang on a second, Jordan - have you seen some of the dog's abuse that GA's had on here?!
I've said repeatedly that I'm quite happy to have my opinion countered, provided its done in the right manner by people who give valid evidence for why they thinkthe way they do.
There are a number of posters on here who echo your viewpoint who I will happily engage with, because they do it respectfully and back their posts up with solid evidence.
Then there are others who are stuck belligerently in their own track who feel that they have the right to make their point whilst showing up their own preconceptions and prejuidices, and I reserve the right to call them out as I have done.
I don't see how you can read this thread and feel that its a GA and Dobbo "love-in".On the contrary, I would suggest that there's a few of us on here who are attempting to stick up for someone who's getting his competence called into question, and generally abused and battered with no voice to come back with apart from the voice we're attempting to give him. | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 13:33 - Jun 20 with 2241 views | Monkey_Roots |
| JoJo Gone on 13:02 - Jun 20 by E15Hoop |
You're stuck in your own track. As soon as you see I've posted something, you're straight at my throat, regardless of the content of what I've written, or the context in which I've written it.
You're not interested in engaging in debate - you know what you think and you don't give a f*ck abouut the possibility of a different viewpoint.
And before you throw that one back at me, look at the vehemence of the viewpoints that i'm generally responding to. Maybe - just maybe - the strength of what i write is a direct result of the strength of the post I'm responding to - there's the balance I was talking about yesterday that you accused me of not having. |
Twice, I think.
I've commented on your stance twice.
I love a debate, and if you do love a bit of evidence, go back and show me some evidence that backs up your comment to the contrary.
For the record, I don't have a problem with GA or RD, but I do have my concerns. After the season we have had, I think its only fair that there is going to be some negativity surrounding the club, the management, the players, the future - fans just don't trust the strategy anymore, or at least our implementation of it. You keep deriding anyone who has issues with GA as being negative and pessimistic or whatever, and maybe you're right - we don't know how things are going to turn out from here, but importantly, you don't know either. We can only base our assumptions on what has come before, and since you love the evidence so much, there's pretty much nothing evidential in our recent history to back up your assertions that it's all going to work out just fine, in fact quite the contrary - we have consistently shown that we have the uncanny ability to take an opportunity and spin it into absolute shite.
So, if posters say that GA will be gone by November, its because they are using their own experiences with this club and how it functions to come to a conclusion that he probably will (although I sincerely hope not). Posters may take RD's comments about being a purist and what he plans for the team are, and again come to the conclusion that we saw precious little of that last season - again, this may be down to just doing what we had to do to survive, but it also might be because at Wycombe the style of play and tactics employed by both, we're very different to the pure football and at odds to what his plans are for this team. How we recruit will tell us a lot about how realistic his plans are — again, none of us know yet, but we're all stuck in a bad place at the moment, so our expectations are pretty dire.
You're being super super positive, good for you - perhaps I shouldn't have commented on it.
But maybe read the room a little - you've pulled out in the middle of a funeral procession singing 'Don't worry be happy'.
I dunno, go for it I guess. | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 13:37 - Jun 20 with 2215 views | Match82 |
| JoJo Gone on 18:32 - Jun 19 by WatfordR |
Do you honestly believe we are going to see anything radically different? It was utter sh1te, embarrassing. I couldn't watch that week after week over a whole season, and it won't win us enough games to keep us up, so the ends won't even justify the means.
Unlike some, it doesn't matter two hoots to me that he played for us, that he loves the club, or any of that old rubbish. He isn't up to the job imo, and every day we indulge this fantasy that he is, is just a waste of time. |
I think people have the "he played for us" spin the wrong way round.
What if it's not that we want him because he played for us? What if it's that we are such a clusterfk of a club that the only chance we had of attracting a vaguely competent manager was because THEY had an affinity for the club? |  | | |
| JoJo Gone on 13:45 - Jun 20 with 2176 views | E15Hoop |
| JoJo Gone on 13:33 - Jun 20 by Monkey_Roots |
Twice, I think.
I've commented on your stance twice.
I love a debate, and if you do love a bit of evidence, go back and show me some evidence that backs up your comment to the contrary.
For the record, I don't have a problem with GA or RD, but I do have my concerns. After the season we have had, I think its only fair that there is going to be some negativity surrounding the club, the management, the players, the future - fans just don't trust the strategy anymore, or at least our implementation of it. You keep deriding anyone who has issues with GA as being negative and pessimistic or whatever, and maybe you're right - we don't know how things are going to turn out from here, but importantly, you don't know either. We can only base our assumptions on what has come before, and since you love the evidence so much, there's pretty much nothing evidential in our recent history to back up your assertions that it's all going to work out just fine, in fact quite the contrary - we have consistently shown that we have the uncanny ability to take an opportunity and spin it into absolute shite.
So, if posters say that GA will be gone by November, its because they are using their own experiences with this club and how it functions to come to a conclusion that he probably will (although I sincerely hope not). Posters may take RD's comments about being a purist and what he plans for the team are, and again come to the conclusion that we saw precious little of that last season - again, this may be down to just doing what we had to do to survive, but it also might be because at Wycombe the style of play and tactics employed by both, we're very different to the pure football and at odds to what his plans are for this team. How we recruit will tell us a lot about how realistic his plans are — again, none of us know yet, but we're all stuck in a bad place at the moment, so our expectations are pretty dire.
You're being super super positive, good for you - perhaps I shouldn't have commented on it.
But maybe read the room a little - you've pulled out in the middle of a funeral procession singing 'Don't worry be happy'.
I dunno, go for it I guess. |
Thanks, MR - that's more the kind of response I was looking for and hoping for.
Pessimism is a dark staircase that spirals consistently downwards into unending depression, and soon everything gets interpreted in that light.
I'm trying to show that it doesn't have to be that way, and as for reading the room, if I and others don't proactively try to change the mood, then how's the mood going to change?
Anyway, you've summarised the situation quite nicely, which is actually the point I was making starting from the opposite corner of the room (to keep your analogy going).
So for now, farewell.. | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 14:26 - Jun 20 with 1982 views | R_from_afar |
| JoJo Gone on 11:41 - Jun 20 by Burnleyhoop |
It wasn’t the time or place to be giving the ball to the likes of Dozzell or Iroegbunham, who would simply concede possession and put us back under pressure. Apart from Field, our midfield was near non existent for the second half of the season. Frankly, I would have hoofed it over their heads as well.
Ainsworth did what he had to do with an awful, demoralised squad of players that had little or no fight in them whatsoever. It might not be pretty next season, but we will no longer be a soft touch that rolls over to have its tummy tickled at the first sign of adversity. |
Good post. We may have been clear of the drop zone when Ainsworth joined but we were on a shocking run of form and defensively awful. I think Ainsworth wanted the ball as far away from our goal as possible and if that meant bypassing the midfield, so be it. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| JoJo Gone on 14:47 - Jun 20 with 1912 views | 1JD |
| JoJo Gone on 14:01 - Jun 20 by QPR_John |
“ So there was virtually no chance he was going to come in and implement a historically different style to what he is used to.”
I assume you mean the historically different style to what Ainsworth was used to that got us into the situation when he joined. Maybe we were 8 points clear at the time but the direction was undoubtedly downwards. [Post edited 20 Jun 2023 16:22]
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No, I mean that GA and Dobbo have played a certain style for 11 seasons, and that isn’t about to change any time soon.
In terms of the situation we were in before he joined, it wasn’t pretty but Ainsworth made it a damn sight more ugly as he somehow made us even worse!
Before Ainsworth joined.
Points per game: 1.18. Final position extrapolated, 16th.
After Ainsworth joined.
Points per game: 0.85. Final position extrapolated, 24th.
I personally think he would have got more out of the squad had he played to their strengths not his. But we will never know. | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 14:54 - Jun 20 with 1881 views | CateLeBonR |
| JoJo Gone on 14:47 - Jun 20 by 1JD |
No, I mean that GA and Dobbo have played a certain style for 11 seasons, and that isn’t about to change any time soon.
In terms of the situation we were in before he joined, it wasn’t pretty but Ainsworth made it a damn sight more ugly as he somehow made us even worse!
Before Ainsworth joined.
Points per game: 1.18. Final position extrapolated, 16th.
After Ainsworth joined.
Points per game: 0.85. Final position extrapolated, 24th.
I personally think he would have got more out of the squad had he played to their strengths not his. But we will never know. |
You mean like Critchley did? | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 14:57 - Jun 20 with 1860 views | 1JD |
| JoJo Gone on 14:54 - Jun 20 by CateLeBonR |
You mean like Critchley did? |
Critchley is no longer the manager, for good reason! | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 15:01 - Jun 20 with 1837 views | CateLeBonR |
| JoJo Gone on 14:57 - Jun 20 by 1JD |
Critchley is no longer the manager, for good reason! |
I know. I mean Critchley was the continuity appointment meant to play to the strengths of the players, who then rejected him and ultimately lost him his job.
Sorry I didn’t mean to sound antagonistic in that last post. | | | |
| JoJo Gone on 15:18 - Jun 20 with 1779 views | traininvain |
| JoJo Gone on 06:05 - Jun 20 by Ned_Kennedys |
Johansen was poor under all three managers last season: he’s been released as his fitness has been an issue for ages and he played poorly when in the team.
Can’t believe anyone is unhappy we have saved some money by terminating the contract of probably our highest earning but ineffective player. |
I’m not unhappy that Johansen’s been released. It makes perfect sense to get his wages off the books. But I don’t think people can accuse WLS of having an anti-Ainsworth agenda for pointing out that ball playing central defenders (Dickie) and midfielders (Johansen) probably don’t fit with his preferred style of football. It’s pretty obvious to anyone who watched his team play at the back end of last season. |  | | |
| JoJo Gone on 16:11 - Jun 20 with 1598 views | stevec |
| JoJo Gone on 10:59 - Jun 20 by Northernr |
Thank you. Getting from losing £25m to losing £4m in a couple of seasons requires extreme cut backs and is incredibly difficult to do while maintaining some sort of squad standard. If it was as easy as is being made out, we'd just have done it anyway wouldn't we? I can't imagine the owners want to lose £25m on a team with Andre Gray up front. We've only managed it once recently, and we did that only by selling a player for £16m+£4m. So unless we make another significant sale, it's going to be difficult and the budget is going to be tight. |
Well there won’t be any significant sales, that’s for sure.
Hopefully we’ll stop planning around this stupid idea that if we keep producing an Eze every three years and fattening them up for market, everything will be alright. It’s mental.
Still maintain that relegation would have given us the breathing space to rethink everything long term but we are where we are, and this season is not the one to get relegated.
Might do us a bit of good being forced to focus on one thing this season, putting a side out that can do it’s best job for just this club only and not worry about their bloody resale price. |  | | |
| JoJo Gone on 16:39 - Jun 20 with 1489 views | QPR_John |
| JoJo Gone on 14:47 - Jun 20 by 1JD |
No, I mean that GA and Dobbo have played a certain style for 11 seasons, and that isn’t about to change any time soon.
In terms of the situation we were in before he joined, it wasn’t pretty but Ainsworth made it a damn sight more ugly as he somehow made us even worse!
Before Ainsworth joined.
Points per game: 1.18. Final position extrapolated, 16th.
After Ainsworth joined.
Points per game: 0.85. Final position extrapolated, 24th.
I personally think he would have got more out of the squad had he played to their strengths not his. But we will never know. |
Or to put in another way on 23 October we had our highest points per game of 1.88. We won just 1 game out of 17 after that before Ainsworth took over when we were on 1.18 point per game as you say a drop of 0.67 points . We won 3 games in the 13 Ainsworth was in charge and went from 1.18 to 1.09 a drop of 0.09 points. Maybe he did get more out of the squad.
Lies, damn lies and statistics | | | |
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